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Författare Ämne: Ulrica Carolina Andersdotter  (läst 1616 gånger)

2021-11-14, 20:40
läst 1616 gånger

Utloggad Greg Rosenvall

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I am trying to find out any information on the parents of Ulrica Carolina Andersdotter, who is believed to have been born in 1821 with Christening date of 29 Aug 1821 in Värmdö, Sweden.  Any other record information would be apprecited.

Thank you!

2021-11-14, 21:48
Svar #1

Utloggad Sune Andersson

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Hi Greg.
Here you find Ulrica: Värmdö church archives, Birth and baptism books, SE / SSA / 1587 / C I / 9 (1812-1824), picture time: C0048448_00143
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0048448_00143
Mvh
Sune

2021-11-14, 21:53
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Utloggad Arne Granquist

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Ulrika Carolina  born 26 Aug bapt 29 Aug 1821
parents Anders Ersson and Brita Stina Andersdotter of Daleke

Värmdö (AB) CI:9 (1812-1824) Bild 1290
Värmdö (AB) AI:11a (1820-1825) Bild 1020 / sid 91

2021-11-14, 23:25
Svar #3

Utloggad Greg Rosenvall

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Arne Granquist:

Can you please send me the links to the records showing that Anders Ersson and Brita Stina Andersdotter are the parents.

Thank you!
Greg

2021-11-15, 10:32
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Utloggad Arne Granquist

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Birth record
Värmdö (AB) CI:9 (1812-1824) Bild 1290

if You are using Riksarkivet/Svar:
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0048448_00143
if You are using Arkiv Digital Online:
Värmdö (AB) CI:9 (1812-1824) Bild 1290 (AID: v83408.b1290, NAD: SE/SSA/1587)


Household Exam
Värmdö (AB) AI:11a (1820-1825) Bild 1020 / sid 91

https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0048402_00106
Värmdö (AB) AI:11a (1820-1825) Bild 1020 / sid 91 (AID: v83308.b1020.s91, NAD: SE/SSA/1587)

2021-11-20, 17:13
Svar #5

Utloggad Greg Rosenvall

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Arne Granquist:

Do I have the birthdates correct?
Anders Ersson: September 29, 1794
Brita Stina Andersdotter: February, 27, 1798

Are there birth record links available for Anders and Brita Stina on Riksarkivet/Svar?

Your references using Arkiv Digital Online are not showing up as links.  How do I access?

Thank you very much,
Greg Rosenvall

2021-11-21, 12:18
Svar #6

Utloggad Arne Granquist

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Arkiv Digital Online is a pay site. In this case they are showing the same
pictures as Riksarkivet/SVAR


Swedish Genealogy - ArkivDigital




2021-11-21, 13:02
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Utloggad Arne Granquist

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Birth record  Anders Gustaf
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0048446_00197

Brita Stina is a little trickier. Her dates are changing
This could be her
Brita Christina born 30 March 1798
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0048447_00014

2021-11-26, 21:20
Svar #8

Utloggad Greg Rosenvall

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Arne:

How do I know if the father's name is Anders Ersson or Anders Gustaf or is one in the same?

Thank you,
Greg

2021-11-27, 10:14
Svar #9

Utloggad Arne Granquist

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The boy born 29 sep was given the name Anders Gustaf. His father
was Eric Andersson . As gown up AG would be Anders Gustaf Eriksson
(or Ersson). Perhaps on  a daily basis just Anders Ersson.


2021-11-29, 01:17
Svar #10

Utloggad Greg Rosenvall

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Arne:

Below are links to records for "Anna Stina" and "Malena" both showing the father as Anders Larsson and mother as Brita Stina Andersdotter, if I am reading the records correctly.  Is there a way I can find records for the Anders and Brita Stina -- birth dates especially?  Also, would like to know if for sure Anna Stina and Malena are sisters.

I now have an account on ArkivDigital.

Thank you,
Greg

Anna Stina: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GRQ2-RPG?i=270&cc=1647578
Malena: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RQ2-PXL?i=386&cc=1647578

2021-11-29, 08:50
Svar #11

Utloggad Arne Granquist

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Sorry  I can´t access those files

2021-11-29, 12:23
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Utloggad Staffan Bergh

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The links are to their birth records -- FamilySearch redirects to Riksarkivet. Their parents have the same names, and they're born in the same place (Fogryta) -- and the household record says they're sisters ...

Fellingsbro kyrkoarkiv, Husförhörslängder, SE/ULA/10244/A I/19b (1836-1845), bildid: C0000211_00018, sida 7

The birth records:
Anna Stina, f 1731-11-28 (or -29): Fellingsbro kyrkoarkiv, Födelse- och dopböcker, SE/ULA/10244/C/10 (1814-1840), bildid: C0000226_00274
Malena, f 1739-08-25: Fellingsbro kyrkoarkiv, Födelse- och dopböcker, SE/ULA/10244/C/10 (1814-1840), bildid: C0000226_00390

mvh /staffan -- BFiles

2021-12-02, 02:15
Svar #13

Utloggad Greg Rosenvall

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Thank you, Staffan!  This is most helpful and appreciated!  A few questions please:

1) It looks like on the household record, that birthdates for the father Anders Larsson and mother Brita Stina Andersdotter are 11 February 1808 and 18 May 1807.  Is this correct and are there birth records for Anders and Brita?

2) It appears that Malena's birthday on the household record is 26 September 1839 and on the birth record is 26 August 1839, or not the same month.  Am I reading these records correctly?

Thank you so much,
Greg Rosenvall

2021-12-02, 17:49
Svar #14

Utloggad Staffan Bergh

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Well, assuming they were really born in Fellingsbro, as the household record suggests (it says "F" for birth location), you can look up the corresponding dates in the birth records: that would be C:9 (Fellingsbro kyrkoarkiv, Födelse- och dopböcker, SE/ULA/10244/C/9 (1792-1813), starting at bildid: C0000225_00001).

To cut to the chase: if you do, you'll find an Anders Larsson born on Feb 11, 1808, in Fogryta, and a Britta Stina Andersdotter born May 19, 1807, in Nederby (images 247 and 238, resp.). So that fits ... they are almost certainly the right ones, but you should try to follow them in the household records from their birth, to make sure. It did happen that people got their birth data changed by mistake when data was copied from one book to another -- as has almost certainly happened to Malena (yes, you are reading the records right  :) ).
mvh /staffan -- BFiles

2021-12-04, 16:05
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Utloggad Greg Rosenvall

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Staffan:

This is most helpful.  Thank you!  I am new to genealogy / family history, so appreciate your patience with my lack of experience.

I found the birth records.  A few questions:

1) It appears the birth record has Anders Larsson's name as Anders Lars Anderson.  Is "Larsson" an abbreviation of "Lars Anderson"?
2) The birth record for Britta Stina Andersdotter seems to read Brita Stina Anders Andersson?
3) Please help me get started following them on the household records as you suggest.

Please know how much I appreciate your help.

Greg Rosenvall

2021-12-04, 21:19
Svar #16

Utloggad Staffan Bergh

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You should probably go find a book, or a website, that explains how Swedish genealogy works :) ... FamilySearch has a page about the household records.
 
1+2) The birth records read like this -- columns left-to-right (w/Anders as an example)
  • "20": number -- the 20 birth this year (or maybe baptism)
  • "Anders": name (first name, we'd say today, his given name)
  • "----": month born -- the line indicates "same as above", ie February
  • "11": day born, ie he was born Feb 11th
  • "----": month baptized -- same as above, again, February
  • "13": day baptized -- Feb 13th
  • "Lars Andersson; Hu Brita Lars d i Fogryta": parents (Lars Andersson and his wife Britta Larsdotter) and place (Fogryta)
  • "Lars Jansson Yngre, Hu Maja Jansd; Dr Jan Larsson, Pig Anna Ersd, alla i Fogryta": witnesses/godparents at the baptism. Lars Jansson the younger, (his?) wife Maja Jansdotter, the "dräng" (unmarried male) Jan Larsson and the "piga" (unmarried female) Anna Ersdotter
  • "37; Kkt d 25/3": age of the mother (37 years old), and she was "kyrktagen", churched, Mar 25

Brita Stinas birth notice works the same (but the date her mother was churched is missing, which is probably just an oversight). Anders birth notice has a "W" next to the number -- probably because Fogryta was in Västmanland county (län), in contrast to the main part of the parish which was in Örebro county. The priest was also responsible for making and reporting population statistics, and the note would help.

Since Anders' father was called Lars, his patronymic is "Larsson" = "Lars' son" = "the son of Lars". "Common" people did not have last names as we know them, not until late 19th century. He will probably not be noted with his patronymic until he leaves home, or takes over the farm or something -- he will be noted as "son", with his father as head of the household.

3) So let's follow Brita Stina: from the list of household records, pick out the one that covers her birth date -- a little bit complicated because there are 5 (AI:16a-e), covering different parts of the parish, but they have indexes to the villages/farms at the back; Nederby (where her birth record says she was born) is in AI:16b. The index is on image 303, and it says that Nederby is on the pages 264 to 300. So you'll have to look through these until you find Brita Stina with her parents. Once you find the right family (they're on page 272 ...), you'll find a wealth of information -- her father is the son of another Anders Andersson, born 1743; her mother came from the neighboring parish of Gillberga when they married in 1805, but she was born in Fellingsbro; Brita Stina has two younger siblings; and more. And -- important for the next step -- the family was still living in the same place in 1815, when the priest started on the next set of books. So now you'll have to follow the clues and look that up ...

Good hunting!
mvh /staffan -- BFiles

2021-12-05, 02:17
Svar #17

Utloggad Greg Rosenvall

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Staffan:

Very helpful and much appreciated!

I read through several times the information on household records on the FamilySearch website and found it most helpful.

I follow your description of Anders Larsson's birth record.

Using the same for Brita Stina's birth record, I come up with:
69, Brita Stina, May 19, May 24, Father Anders Andersson (hence, Brita Stina Andersdotter - daughter of Anders), Mother Brita (I cannot make out the last name), Nederby

Could you help me with the mother Brita's last name?

On the household record:
1) I can see Brita Stina with birthdate of 19 May 1804. 
2) Is her father's name just given as "Anders"?  Before Anders is "Son"?  Birthdate 17 June 1775
3) Mother's name of Brita. Cannot make out last name. Born in 1777
4) I can see the parent's marriage year of 1805 in Gillberga
5) The entries Cathrina and Lars birthdates: 12 April 1810 and 10 July 1814: how does one know these are siblings?  The significance of "Dr" before Cathrina's name and "Lo" before Lars?
6) Does the "ibon" or abbreviations in the Fodd Ort column just mean "same", meaning birth location for all is Fogryta?
7) Birth location for Lars?

Thank you again,
Greg

2021-12-05, 12:08
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Utloggad Staffan Bergh

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Using the same for Brita Stina's birth record, I come up with:
69, Brita Stina, May 19, May 24, Father Anders Andersson (hence, Brita Stina Andersdotter - daughter of Anders), Mother Brita (I cannot make out the last name), Nederby

Correct :) 

Citera
On the household record:
1) I can see Brita Stina with birthdate of 19 May 1804. 
2) Is her father's name just given as "Anders"?  Before Anders is "Son"?  Birthdate 17 June 1775

Exactly -- except Brita Stinas birthyear is witten "1807" (it's like a "4", but as the other "7":s it's written with one stroke, while the "4":s are written with two strokes. Tricky, though -- and sometimes you see evidence that a priest couldn't read his own handwriting, so it's no shadow on you ... ;)).

The general principle is that all the "titles" are relative to the head of the household -- so Anders, b 1775, is the son of (the head of the household) Anders, b 1743. But then the head-of-household spot shifts to Anders b 1775, probably when he marries. If this is because he actually took on the role then, or just because it was easier for the priest, we can't really tell ...  When you look at the next book, you'll see that Anders b 1743 has moved down on the page, and has the title "Fader" (father).

Citera
3) Mother's name of Brita. Cannot make out last name. Born in 1777

Brita Stinas mother is an "Olofs dotter", often (as here) shortened to "Ols-" when used in patronymics: "Olsdotter" = "daughter of Olof".

Citera
4) I can see the parent's marriage year of 1805 in Gillberga

It says that Brita moved in from Gillberga 1805 -- which is another village in the same parish (I misrepresented it above as another parish, corrected now). So the marriage was in the parish of Fellingsbro. The cermony may have been in Gillberga, or in church (it's about midway between Fogryta and Gillberga), and the party may have been in Gillberga, where the bride came from -- the marriage record (another one to look up :) ) says her brother sponsored her, so maybe her father was already dead?

Citera
5) The entries Cathrina and Lars birthdates: 12 April 1810 and 10 July 1814: how does one know these are siblings?  The significance of "Dr" before Cathrina's name and "Lo" before Lars?

"Dr" before Cathrina is short for "daugther", "S:" (the colon is used as an abbreviation marker) before Lars is short for "son" -- relative to the head-of-household, remember. To make sure, look up their birth records.

Citera
6) Does the "ibon" or abbreviations in the Fodd Ort column just mean "same", meaning birth location for all is Fogryta?
7) Birth location for Lars?

Anders, b 1743, at the top, was born in "Fellsbr.", short for Fellingsbro. His wife Stina is born "ibidem", "in the same place" in latin. "Ibdm", "ibm" and "ib" are all short for "ibidem". Lars is born in "F.", which also should mean Fellingsbro.

Hope this helps, and Good luck!
mvh /staffan -- BFiles

2021-12-05, 21:07
Svar #19

Utloggad Greg Rosenvall

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Very helpful again and much appreciated!

How can I find out more about the birth location of Brita Stina Andersdotter?  Her birth record indicates Nederby.  FamilySearch gives three options for Nederby in Sweden: 1) Nederby, Jonkoping, Sweden; 2) Nederby, Orebro, Sweden and 3) Nederby, Vallby, Uppsala, Sweden.  Is there a way to determine which, if any, is correct?

Thank you,
Greg

2021-12-05, 22:18
Svar #20

Utloggad Staffan Bergh

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The parish of Fellingsbro is just north-east of Örebro. The main village -- where the church is -- is also called Fellingsbro.

Coordinates for Nederby: https://www.google.com/maps/place/59.413484,+15.639574/@59.4144744,15.6394594,11z

Fogryta (Fågryte on a modern map) is about 3 miles north-east of Nederby. Gillberga is about 6 miles to the north-west.

mvh /staffan -- BFiles

2021-12-05, 22:50
Svar #21

Utloggad Jörgen Tollesson

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Why not use a real map instead?  :)

Nederby
Kontakt: http://www.arkivguiden.net/jts.shtml. | Ser gamla inlägg (före april 2016) underliga ut? Argumenterar jag mot mig själv? Saknas något i inläggen? Finns där något som inte borde vara där? Läs då om orsaken här: http://forum.arkivguiden.net/agf/disk/42626/62869.shtml#post16472.

2021-12-06, 01:08
Svar #22

Utloggad Greg Rosenvall

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The birth record below accessible through FamilySearch shows a Brita Stina born on 24 Aug 1808 to Anders Andersson and Brita Olsdottter.   These are the same parent names of the Brita Stina I have been researching who was born 19 May 1807.  But I am thinking they are not the same parents because the Brita Stina born on 24 Aug 1808 is not showing up on the household record Steffan shared with me earlier (link below).  Is this correct?

Thank you,
Greg

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-66RQ-48K?i=271

https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0000196_00272#?c=&m=&s=&cv=271&xywh=-226%2C-145%2C3944%2C2754

2021-12-06, 07:29
Svar #23

Utloggad Staffan Bergh

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Ah, thanks for the neat illustration of why you need to check the original records 8).

Yes, that's right. They all have the same names, but if you look at the birth notice, you'll see that this family is in Åbyfallet, and also that the mother is 23 years old -- so not the same people.

The patronymics system, coupled with a rather rigid custom to name children after their grandparents, conspired to make it so that a lot of people had the same names. Wikitree has some pages about Swedish names.

PS. Thanks, Jörgen, for the nice map link -- I'll use that in the future!
mvh /staffan -- BFiles

2021-12-06, 16:16
Svar #24

Utloggad Greg Rosenvall

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Staffan:

Thank you again for the help.  Please know how much I appreciate it.  I hope you don't mind as if I continue asking questions as I learn and make progress in my family history.

Greg

2021-12-06, 17:49
Svar #25

Utloggad Staffan Bergh

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You're welcome. And please keep asking questions, that' what this site's for after all ... but start a new thread if it's a new question. We left Ulrica Carolina behind many answers back ...
mvh /staffan -- BFiles

2021-12-06, 17:58
Svar #26

Utloggad Greg Rosenvall

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2021-12-06, 23:13
Svar #27

Utloggad Greg Rosenvall

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Staffan:

Does the last column of the birth record (titled Omsländigheter or "Conditions") always give the age of the mother at the time of the birth record?

Greg

2021-12-07, 19:53
Svar #28

Utloggad Staffan Bergh

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No such luck ... every priest had his own style, usually.

Some data they had to do statistics on, and send in -- age of mothers, how many born in and out of wedlock, ... -- but how they kept track was entirely up to them, at least in the 19th century and before.
mvh /staffan -- BFiles

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