Södra Åsbo häradsrätt, Starby Boupp. 1672

[Karen Van Etten]

Can anyone help with the following excerpt from a June 27, 1672 Bouppteckning ?
I realize the words are spelled in an old Danish style {i.e., formandare for
formyndare; mand for man; söster for sister}.  But have I copied correctly ? Especially the last 4 words,
which I am sure are incorrect.  Any help is greatly appreciated.
   

 
{Kirstena Lassesdotter} och sin mand Jens Moensson i Giomanstorp,
söster sal[ig] Sidtza Lassesdotter barn [?]
Moens Nilsson i Uglarp, }
Thyre Nilsdotter , ibm   }   undar [?] deris fader Nils Moensson formandareskap i som tilstede war,
vem Johanna Nilsdotter med sin mand Peder Andersson som tilstede bor Sjlagra,   Ludse Nilsdotter
med sin mand Peder Olsson i Bonarup,   Kierstena Nilsdotter af Kiäreberg,   som enkan [?] war tilstede,
mens efter deris fader Nils Moensson  bereft hoster  fvaet  bud  [??]
 
Karen V.

[Martin Brandt]

Hej,
 
Tricky again.. maybe something like this:
 
wnder deris faders Niels Monßens
formunderschab som tilstede war,
item Johanna Nelßdotter med sin mand Peder Anders: i
[som tilsteder war]
sijlagra, Ludse Nelsdotter med sin Mand Peder Ols i
Bonarup, Kiersten Nelsdatter aff
Kiereberig, som dog iche war tilstede, mens effter deris
faders Nelß Monßens berettig haffr faart bud
 
The last part would mean something like....Kierstin Nelsdatter was not present, but their father was there on her behalf .. but im not 100% sure..
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av martinb 2012-11-08 10:48)

[Karen Van Etten]

Thanks for the help, Martin.
It appears Niels Monsson is representing everyone in the Boupp. – from what I can tell at the beginning, Niels’ daughter Hanna was married to a deceased Peder Lasson – they had no children – and Niels had been married to Peder’s sister, Sidza (now also deceased).  
 
Notice the little ^ in front of som tilstede war.   That same ^ is seen again  sijlagra ^ Lûdse Nelsdotter med sin mand…  Does not that mark indicate the clerk is inserting “som tilstede war” after the village word, sijlagra?  {Silvåkra in Källna}    
 
Regarding “som dog iche war tilstede”  - are you using the word “dog” for “dock ?”   In other words, Kierstin is not yet present. If Kierstin was dead, then her name probably would not appear in this document [because no husband and no children named].  I agree with your analysis, that last four words indicate father, Niels, also represents dotter Kierstin [in addition to the other persons] - what 4 words used is a mystery.
Mvh,
Karen V.

[Martin Brandt]

Hi Karen,
 
I think you're right about the ^-signs.
 
dog = dock. But I would not translate it as not yet. More like.. Kierstin Nilsdotter of Kiereberig who, however, was not present. The last 4 words are not a mystery, as i wrote them above?
 
mvh
Martin

[Karen Van Etten]

Martin - correct, you did supply the last 4 words, but I am not sure how to translate that old Danish-Swedish combination
“berettig haffr faart bud” to something more modern.  The 1600s, formerly Danish-speaking clerks working in Swedish villages,
left us an interesting translation challenge.   One question I had - did the 1600s Danish “aa” later become Sweden's “å”  
Here are my efforts:
 
Berettig  = berettige [Danish]     =  justify  [English]
Haffr  = could not find an equivalent.  Could this be Swedish  'halv ur' ?  If so, then 'halv ur'
could maybe translate into English “half out of”  
Faart [Danish]  =  vårt  [Swedish]  = our [English]
Bud [Danish]  = offer [English]   [bud [Swedish] = bid, order [English]    
 
If the above translations are proper, then it could mean something like this -
“.justify half out of our offer [or order].”   In other words, Nils Moensson was entitled to represent and he could “justify” a claim
for half of the funds accumulated in the Bouppteckning.    
 
[Obs:  Det fans två uppsättningar arvtagare:  [1] Peders hustru och Peders systrar och bröder;
[2] och man och barn av Peders avlidna syster.]
 
I sincerely appreciate any comment or correction you could offer.
Mvh,
Karen  V.

[Martin Brandt]

Hi Karen,
 
aa became å yes, in Sweden long time ago aa was pronounced å as well.. if i remembre correctly.. like the name Aasle in sources sometimes wronly called Asle in modern swedish but should really be Åsle.
 
I'm pretty sure about these three:
 
Haffr = short version of haver which is old word for todays  har = to have
Faart = fart --> fara = travel/travelled
Bud = ombud = representative
 
Im not sure about berettig. But my first thought is berätta = telling.. to tell... as in.. it was told that he was their on his childrens behalf. But your explanaition could be right too.. with justify. Maybe someone else knows?
 
So as i wrote before, i read these 4 words as something like their father was there on her behalf
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av martinb 2012-11-09 20:24)

[Karen Van Etten]

Thank you again, Martin.  I truly appreciate the help.
It's a very satisfactory explanation.
Mvh,
Karen V.

[Heikki Särkkä]

I would guess beretting is Sw. berättelse 'story', or, to keep to legalese, 'testimony'.
 
True, it looks rather like berettig, but beretting would make more sense. Anybody fluent with Old Danish?

[Jacob Hejmdal Gren]

Small suggestions from a Dane  :
 
berettig = beretning = explaination
haffr = haver/har = has
faaet = fået = gotten
bud = bud = invitation or message
So Kirsten Nilsdatter and Ludse Nilsdatter weren't present, but as their father explained they had been summoned.
 
Also, I think the ij in modern day Silvåkra is a y: Sylager. That makes it sound like Sølv-ager, silver field, which I guess is the same meaning as Silvåkra.
 
Jacob

[Martin Brandt]

[Karen Van Etten]

This all worked out so beautifully and will certainly be a
help to descendants of that family.  Thank you one and all
for your explanations !
Mvh,
Karen V.