Rist, Caspar in Lappland

[Håkan Bergström]

A soldier named Axel Klemetsson Sax is mentioned in the mantalslängd 1697 under Haparanda, he is later married with Malin Rist, daughter to customs clerk Johan Rist.
 
http://www.distans.org/anor/anor2/haparanda.html

[Bengt-Göran Nilsson]

Casper and his wife is still in the taxation register of Torneå 1646, but after that he is missing.

[Michael Kohlhaas]

Thank you very much for your last hints that correspond with some additional remarks I meanwhile got from the former Anbytarforum-reader:
 
 
 In the taxation register of Torneå 1674 Johan visitor with wife is found close to Anders Planting and the widow of Jöns Christoffersson. Anders Planting who was a writer at the customs in Torneå was coming from Piteå. Johan is still registered visitor 1675 but 1678 Johan Rist (2 particular persons) has replaced Anders Planting as writer.
 
Johan Rist is 1680 taking up a small farm in Vuono that had been deserted 1677-80. He is getting exemption from tax 1680-83 and seems to be the proprietor up to 1694 when the “Maid Brita Rist” has taken over.  
The farm is deserted 1697 but has 1699 been assigned to the soldier Abraham Clemetsson Sax (grandson of Jöns Isaacsson von Saxen).  
When he had returned to his property in Haparanda 1704 Malin Asp (Asp indicates that she is married to a soldier Asp) had taken over the farm in Vuono.  
Anyhow Malin seems to live in Haparanda where she 1706 is named “Wife Malin Johan Rist”. 1709 she is named “Wife Malin Hjälte” indicating that her husband is Axel Clemetsson who 1708 replaced Johan Hielt as corporal.  
 
 
As a hypothesis we now (on christmas 2009..!) found Johan Rist (perhaps born around 1639 and died 1693?) as a son of Caspar Goldsmed Rist (who died 1647? to 1653? and who named his son to his beloved brother Johann Rist in Wedel,?), married to Malin NN.  
Johan was customs writer in Torneå since 1678 and had connections to Reval.
One of their two? children was Brita, who owned the farm from 1694 to 1697?  
Johan's widow Malin married (around 1695? 1702?) Axel Clemetsson Sax, grandson of Jöns Isaacsson von Saxen from Lübeck?, member of the small german community. Malin could be born around 1645, died after 1709.
Abraham Clemetsson Sax (brother of Axel?) owned the farm in Vuono since 1699, did he mary Brita?
 
These question-marks do not fit with a nut-cracker, but they can lead to new traces  - answers in 2010!
 
Wish You all Frohe Weihnachten und ein gutes neues Jahr    Michael

[Michael Kohlhaas]

A next try to crack the Rist-nut in Torneå:
 
I got the following reference to a note found in Länsräkenskaper Västerbotten, Verifikationer 1648, fol. 493: Contribution not paid for 1645 by  Caspars änkia fatig staden Tårnöå 6 daler  indicates that Caspar died in Torneå 1645.  
The widow was claimed to be poor. She might perhaps be found in the register for Torneå 1646. Anybody may have have access to that register?
 
Any idea of what could happen normally to a (poor) widow (Same) that time in North-Sweden?  
The (two?) children could have been 3 to 6 years old in 1645; they all needed a protector.
Is it possible, that these children got the name of a second (?) husband?  
Therefore no 'Rist-Professor' in Uppsala? (But above we saw a Johan Rist as a possible son of Caspar.)
In which book/register could a second marriage/settlement be found? Up to, say, 1650?
Any help appreciated.  
M.

[Constantinus Lindfors]

Hi Michael,
 
Recently, my contact person in Piteå found the following notice about Rist's father-in-law from 1643 in the church accounts (source: Piteå landsförsamlings kyrkoräkenskaper, LI:1): Den 19 Martij gaff Caspar Gulsmeedh i Testamente efter sin sal: Suerfadhr 1 Rixdaler (= 3 dal. 24 öre).
 
His comments (översättning, snälla någon?): 1 riksdaler var faktiskt förhållandevis bra betalt i testamente så Casper, eller om det var svärfadern som höll med gåvan, var inte barskrapad. Vidare kan detta vara något som styrker att Casper gifte sig häruppe eftersom svärfadern dog i Piteå. Tyvärr nämns inte svärfadern med namn, men det kanske kommer.
 
According to the registers, there was only one person named Caspar living in Torneå at that time. Rist may have died there, but in 1646 as earliest since he was still mentioned in the register of that year (no trace at all in 1647).
 
Kind regards, Constantinus

[Margaretha Johansson]

Trying to translate the facts above.  1 riksdaler was actually by standards quite well paid in the will so Casper, or it might have been his father in law who provided the gift, was not badly off. Furthermore this can be something that confirms that Casper married up here as his father in law died in Piteå. Unfortunately the father in law´s name is not mentioned, but maybe that will be disclosed in future  
 
Margaretha

[Sven-Ove Brattström]

In this case, when noted in church accounts, testamente = a gift to the parish after a person was burried.

[Michael Kohlhaas]

Thank you Constantinus and Sven-Ove  for your help and Margaretha for translation, though it leads to little confusion: did Caspar die 1645 (Länsräkenskaper Västerbotten) or 1646 ? (according to what exact register?).
 
I indulge in fancies:  Caspar died some time in 1646, had  paid his conrtibution for 1646 but still not for 1645.  And finally in 1648 he landed in the book of the Amtmann in Västerbotten not to have paid for 1645 and his widow as well not able to compensate.  
What we could read  in Länsräkenskaper for 1646 ?
Other meanings and arguments?
 
What  with 1643?  Caspar's father in law died and he married the daughter? In this case the spoken two children could be of age one to three (or twins of two/three years?) in 1646.
In 1646 brother Johann Rist published that above spoken poem. Unfortunately Johann has not handed down that letter from his brother so far in the North, which he might have gotten shortly after the the birth of the children in 1644 or 1645...
 
Still the whereabouts of Caspar's wife and children; the experience with Anbytarforum gives confidence to me.
 
Michael
 
P.S.  Sven-Ove, I have a Carl Alfred Brattsröm in my list, born 1847, Senator in Lübeck, + 1911. He or his ancestors are from Sweden; any connection?

[Constantinus Lindfors]

Caspar was married before 1640 (see Anna-Carin's message from 2009-11-15) and he was still living in 1646 (see Bengt-Göran's message from 2009-12-22). I sadly don't have access to Västerbottens länsräkenskaper.
 
Happy Easter, Constantinus

[Michael Kohlhaas]

Thank you, Constantinus, for correction, I was concentrated too much on the last statements.
 
Nevertheless, why did  Caspar occur in länsräkenskaper for 1645? And in taxation register of Torneå in 1646?  
Still he could have died in 1646, I think.
 
Does anyone see a chance for a note of a second marriage of the widow with two litlle children?  
And a chance to find the further traces of these children or respectively Rist descandants?  
(Or a link to Caspar Rist in Malmø, May Teistevoll wrote of in Nov. 2009 under this subject?)
 
By the way, two weeks ago I again had been in Torneå, of course no chance to do some research that kind I can do here at Anbytarforum.  
And no chance to look for pale bones under that snow this year...
 
Happy Easter,  Michael

[Bengt-Göran Nilsson]

Yes Michael, Casper, Caspar could have died in 1646. The taxation register for 1646 has no date but it is probably written in the beginning of 1646, so after that, Caspar could have died as hi didn't occured in the register for 1647.

 
(Meddelandet ändrat av bege 2010-04-03 15:53)

[Michael Kohlhaas]

Thank you, Bengt-Göran, for that register-copy !
 
We now can fix some data:
 
Caspar Rist,  * abt. 1609 in Ottensen/Hamburg, + 1646 in Torneå, copperplate-engraver and silversmith (Casper Guldsmed in Torneå).
He came to Sweden in 1635?-1638? and married a native (Same) in 1639/40? in Piteå, two children;  went to Torneå in 1645/46.
A son could have been Johan Rist, who in 1680 bought a farm in Vuono/Torneå, customs-writer and merchant to Reval and who probably died in 1694, abt. 50 to 54 years old.  
Abt. 1680? he had married Malin NN, she was still mentioned in 1709.
Johan Rist could be identical with Johann Rist, mentioned in an old Rist-family-table as a son of Caspar who became a Royal? Praepositus? in Stettin/Szezcin, that time swedish.
There are no further data concerning the second child, the wife of Caspar (second marriage?) and grandchildren.
According to that family-table a child/grandchild NN of Caspar should have been Hombre de la chambre at the kings court in Stockholm.
And in 1700 a lieutenant Franz Conrad Rist came with the swedish army to North-Germany; connections unknown.

[Bengt-Göran Nilsson]

... went to Torneå late 1644 or early in 1645.

[Erik Holmlund]

According to the taxation records, Johan Rist is listed without a wife 1681-1688 in Vuonu, Nedertorneå. So his wife probably died about 1680. I've made a discovery of a person in the taxation records for Umeå that might be identical with Johan Rist. There's a Johan Caspersson in Klabböle, Umeå in 1686 with the title Organist, i.e. he played the organ(piano?) in the church. During the years 1687-1693 he is called Johan Casper and lives at Kyrkbordet, which means the area around the Umeå church. I dont find him in the following taxation records but instead there's another person with the title Organist from 1694 and on. Casper is a very unusual name so I'd say the chances he is identical with Johan Rist is quite big. During all years in Umeå Johan Caspersson is listed without a wife which matches the last known family situation of Johan Rist in Vuono. It would be interesting to know what specialists of the Umeå area has to say about Johan Caspersson.

[Erik Holmlund]

I must add that my theory in my previous post that was not correct. Johan Casper/Caspersson in Umeå is Not identical with Johan Rist in Torneå. Johan Casper in Umeå had the family name Kempfer/Kempher. See posts in this thread.

[Michael Kohlhaas]

There are no news about Caspar Rist & sons.
But I want to let you know that this discussion is combined in a pdf.file on our new homepage for genealgy in North-Germany: www.nd-gen.de
Look at http://www.nd-gen.de/images/pdf/ristsf.pdf  
On page 2 - Caspar Rist - No. II.2 - but German...  
And thanks again for your help!
Michael