Reading, translating help requested - Örtomta

[Kathryn Stone]

Greetings to everyone, I'm back [smile].
I am looking at records for Eric Andersson and Anna Bengtsdotter, and find that there are a few words I cannot decipher.
1.  Erics birth 1730 JUN 22  -  Örtomta födde C:2 page 217 [433.24.41600]
. . .It says Anders Andersson from ____ where?
 
2. Their marriage date is 1767 NOV 21, in Klockrike  -  Vigsel C:1 page 327 [318.24.62700]
. . .I can't decipher any of it except for their names, can someone help?

3. Their son Anders birth 1769 MAR 17, Klockrike  - födde C:1 page 265 [318.24.59600]
. . .what are the two words just before Eric Andersson?
 
4. Their daughter maria's birth 1770 NOV 11, Klockrike  -  födde, C:1 page 273 [318.24.60000]
. . .again, what are the words just before Eric Andersson?
 
 
5. Can anyone determine what kind of work Eric did? There are almost no records for him as an adult, and he seems to have died shortly after these 2 children were born. There are no death records available for that period.  Does anyone have access to some other kind of record for his death? Might there be a bouppteckning? Does everyone who dies have a boup. record?
 
Once again, thank you all so, so much for all the help you so generously give,
Kathryn

[Britt-Marie Waller]

Hi Kathryn!
 
1/ Parents: Anders Andersson and Anna Persdotter from Björnlöten, Örtomta.
 
2/ wigdes unga drängen Eric Andersson ifrån Kiöhlbäck i Elfwestads socken (Kölbäck, Älvestad parish, Östergötland) med qwinspersonen Anna Benctsdotter på Tröstorps ägor (unga drängen = young man, qwinsperson = female person).
 
3/ d 19 ejusd: Betjänten = the 19th the same month: servant.
 
4/ The occupation is saltpettersiudaren, saltpetersjudare. Collecting earth containing urine, part in the process of the making of gunpowder.
 
5/ It does not seem to be a bouppteckning for Erik Andersson, Tröstorp, Klockrike (Bobergs häradsrätt). No, you can´t find bouppteckning for everyone. Probably they were quite poor...Do you have any deathrecord for his wife?
 
Best regards
 
Britt-Marie from Östergötland

[Kathryn Stone]

Britt-Marie,
 
Wonderful information! Thank you, thank you.  I do have the death date for his wife: Anna Maja Bengtsdotter, Örtomta 1801 DEC 10,fattighjonet, so I presume too poor for there to have been any estate.
 
There are about 20 years where I cannot find any trace of Anna and her children Anders and Maria. I have them in a Klockrike Hfl from 1770-1773 [AI:2, page 37] and then nothing until 1794 Örtomta when Anna is at Fagerdal {AI:5, page 71] and her daughter Maria is at Hageby {AI:5, page 43]. Do you have any ideas about how to find them during this period 1773-1793? I have looked page by page through the Hfls of Örtomta and Klockrike without any luck - they might be there, but i was not able to recognize any writing naming them.
 
Oh, by the way, could you take a look at the Hfl for them in Klockrike - AI:2, page 37 [318.12.83200]? I can read Eric Andersson, his wife Anna Bengtsdotter, the I don't know, and last daughter Maria. Can you determine what is written on the third line?
 
And thanks again for the translation help!
 
Kathryn

[Britt-Marie Waller]

AI:2 Klockrike p 37 - son Jonas Jönsson 12. Perhaps Anna Bengtsdotter have had a child before the marriage in 1767?

[Kathryn Stone]

Britt-Marie,
 
thanks for that info ... I think. It actually just opens another mystery. I checked birth records for 1756-1760 in Örtomta and Klockrike and can't find anything helpful. There are only a few Jonas Jönsson born in those years, but none of them have Anna Bengtsdotter as a mother, and none of them have Eric Andersson or Anna Bengtsdotter listed as a witness/godparent. So I can't figure out who he is/how he could be a son.
 
Also, please tell me what you think of this deduction:
regarding the birth of Eric Andersson, before you did translating for me, the only thing I had to go on was the entry you just looked at [AI:2 Klockrike p 37]. After looking through birth records in Örtomta and Klockrike, the only thing that really fit was Eric Andersson born in Örtomta 1730 JUN 22. But then you translated their marriage record and it says Eric from Kölbäck, Älvestad parish.  So I looked there but don't see anything in those birth records that would be a good fit. So could Eric from Kölbäck, Älvestad parish mean he just moved from there? [so then the birth record from Örtomta would still be OK] or does it only mean that he was born there? in which case I've got another mystery.  
 
Thanks for your help,
Kathryn

[Bo Johansson]

The addresses in marriage records are where they lived at the time, not the birth-places.
 
// Bo Johansson

[John Bentley]

A small comment on what Bo says above.  Though young folk (except in towns) might work on farms in the parish (or sometimes an adjacent parish) that were not their home/parental farm, the girl/young woman involved would very often be married in her home parish and from the parental home, if the parents lived.  Thus her abode as written would more likely be the parental home.  For the man that did not happen, it was where he lived. (From my own observations)
John

[Britt-Marie Waller]

Kathryn!
 
I think there are some mistakes made in your research, because when you consider that Eric Andersson in 1767 when he was married were called  young man. He would then be 37 years old if he was born in 1730, hardly a young man...When you study the parishrecord for Klockrike, Eric Andersson has been given the age of 22 years (around 1770), it says 22 gl = gammal = old. His wife Anna Bengtsdotter, 30 gl, son Jonas Jönsson 12 gl and daugther Maria born 1770. This fits the writing in the marriagerecord, that Eric only was approximately 19 years old when he married and his wife 27.
 
I can´t see that the Anna Maja Bengtsdotter (note the second name too) that you have found in Örtomta is the same as Anna Bengtsdotter from Klockrike. Anna Maja Bengtsdotter, widow living at Fagerdal is born in Örtomta 1724 according to the parishrecord. When she dies 1801-12-10 at Barön, Örtomta her age is set to be 73 years, 4 months and 20 days. I found a child Anna born 1728-07-24 (C:2 Örtomta p 209) to Bengt Olofsson and Kerstin Persdotter at Barön, which might be the right Anna Maja Bengtsdotter. I can´t see any connection between her and Maria Eriksdotter in Örtomta. The names Eric Andersson and Anna Bengtsdotter are quite common names at this timeperiod.
 
It´s more likely that Erik and Anna are born in the area of Älvestad and Klockrike than Örtomta.
 
Regards
 
Britt-Marie

[Kathryn Stone]

H-m-m-m ...
thank you for pointing out some inconsistencies in my lineage assumptions.  
What I know for certain is that my Maria Ericsdotter was born 1770 NOV 11 in Klockricke, married Jonas Ytterman Jönssson in Örtomta 1798 OCT 07, had three children and died in Värna 1833 DEC 12. [I know more than that, but those are the highlights.]
I was trying to work backwards from there and clearly I got mixed up somewhere, so I will have to go back to that point and start over.
 
I usually get right to work on something like this, but I will be away for a few days, and I don't want my lack of communication for awhile to be read as anything like I don't appreciate and value all the input and advice I get here.
 
So for now, this will sit on hold, but I'll be back with questions later next week.
 
many thanks,
Kathryn

[Britt-Marie Waller]

Hello Kathryn!
 
It should be Jonas Jonsson, not Jönsson according to all the churchrecords I have looked into and also in his stateinventory (bouppteckning) Bankekinds häradsrätt, 1805 FII:11 p 3195. Deathdate 1805-12-03 according to the bou. Married to Maria Eriksdotter in Rabbantorp, Värnäs properties, Värna. One son Anders 1, Maria 3 and Catharina 7 years old. The childrens uncle (fathers brother) the crofter Lars Jonsson at Hemsjö properties, Björsäters parish in Östergötland.  
 
There in one very important notice in the bou, a debt to the widows mother, Anna Bengtsdotter at Örtomta Fattighus. The year is 1805, so you can now definitely forget about Anna Maja Bengtsdotter who died in 1801 Örtomta!
 
You can find Anna Bengtsdotter born 1733 Säby (probably the Säby parish in Småland close to the border of Östergötland. This parish Säby is situated in Jönköpings län, F), at AI:7 Örtomta p 64, AI:8 p 182 Fattighuset, Örtomta. Dead 1812-04-30 of håll och stygn, probably pneumonia. In the deathbook C:3 Örtomta p 507 she is listed as a widow, earlier married to Salomon Jonsson (should be Larsson) at Skräddaretorpet (Tailors cottage), the last 6 years living at Fattighuset.
 
There is also a bou for Salomon Larsson, dead at Skräddaretorpet (Åsen) 1799-03-24. The widow, Anna Bengtsdotter. He had some children in his first marriage, Lars, Kerstin married to the crofter Anders Jacobsson in Värna and Ingrid who is dead before her father, having a child Nils Isaksson (his father Isak Nilsson in Värna).
 
Salomon Larsson and his first wife Anna Olofsdotter lived at Brunsås, Örtomta - AI:4 p 38, 82, 128 and AI:4 Åsen p 178. In the year of 1783 you can also find the widow Annika (Anna) Bengtsdotter (52 years old in 1786) and her daughter Maja 12 years old in 1783 = b 1771. Salomons wife Anna Olofsdotter died in 1790-05-26 and Anna Bengtsdotter and Salomon married 1791-10-09, C:3 Örtomta p 221.
 
Erik Andersson died before 1783...
 
Maria Eriksdotter and two of her children lived at Anderstorp, Värna for a period of time. At this place you also find Anders Jacobsson and his wife Kerstin (Stina) Salomonsdotter, she is Marias stepfathers daughter (AI:3 Värna p 140).
 
Greetings  
 
Britt-Marie

[Britt-Marie Waller]

Jonas Jonsson cannot be found in the deathbook for Värna 1805, it seems there are some months missing at the end of the year. In his bou there are also a debt to the crofter Jöns Jonsson living at Sjövalla, Grävstens properties (no parish mentioned). Grävsten, Bankekinds parish (Svinstad).
 
Lars Jonsson who is mentioned in the same bou, AI:2 Björsäter, Gröndalen, Hemsjö properties p 48 and AI:3 p 211, is born 1762-10-21 Björsäter.
 
C:2 Björsäter p 111
*1762-10-21 Lars
Jonas Jönsson and his wife Catharina Olofsdotter at Sjövalla.
 
C:2 Björsäter p 117
*1765-05-01 Jöns
- same as above.
 
C:2 Björsäter p 125
*1768-02-02 Jonas
- same as above.
 
Married in Björsäter 1761-10-11 (C:2 p 230) - young man and crofter at Sjövalla Jonas Jönsson and the widow Catharina Olofsdotter from Missmyra properties.
 
The widow Catharina Olofsdotter born 1730 Björsäter, AI:1 Björsäter, Sjövalla p 259 (1792-95). She is absent in 1792...

[Karen Van Etten]

Kathryn -  
There is an Annika Bengtsdotter [f.1740] and Elin Bengtsdotter [f.1738] appearing
at Folio 26 [stamped 50 and 51 at bottom of page] - Klockrike hfl. AI: 1, covers
years 1760-1764 [Genline 318.11.76700).  In the same volume, but for years 1765-1769,
you will see them again at Folio 57 (stamped 113 at bottom of page) (Genline 318.11.79800)
Notice, Elin appears as baptismal witness for Anna's 1769 son, Anders.  Elin also marries
and lives in Klockrike for awhile. It appears years of birth had a way of changing,
especially when someone was new to an area.
Regards,  
Karen V.

[Britt-Marie Waller]

I have also noticed Elin Bengtsdotter as a witness at the baptism 1769. I just had to do some more research of her life in Klockrike...
 
Elin Bengtsdotter married Jöns Månsson in 1766-11-07, both from Valstad in Klockrike (C:1 Klockrike p 326). Their children: 1768-06-03 Anders, Hassla properties (the wife called Ingrid, should be Elin), 1771-07-31 Bengt, Hassla properties, 1774-06-23 Jöns, Hageland, Hassla properties, 1777-04-27 Måns, Sätra, 1779-05-27 Anna, Sätra, 1784-03-10 Maja, Sätra.  
 
At first Elin Bengtsdotter has the year of birth 1738 and Annika Bengtsdotter 1740. Then Elins changes to 1743 and in the parishrecord later on 1746! Elin Bengtsdotter and Jöns Månsson are found at: AI:2 Klockrike p 42 Hageland, Hassla, p 94 and 155 Sätra. AI:3 p 39 and 96 Sätra, p 175 Lilla Hammaren, p 227 Rothugget. Elin born 1746 Säby! AI:4 p 222 Rothugget.  
 
I have found a estateinventory for Ilin Bängtsdotter, married to Jöns Månsson at Rothugget, Valstad properties, Bobergs häradsrätt 1796 FII:13, p 657. I states that no relatives from her side of the family were at the bouppteckning.
 
The notice in the deathbook for 1796-03-12 (C:2 p 421) claims that Elin Bengtsdotter was born in Säby 1743, been sick for a long time in tärande sjukdom, might have been cancer. She have had six children, one son and two daughters are still living. Elins parents were: soldier Bengt Winter and Maja Andersdotter (should be Bengtsdotter!).
 
This confirmed my research done in Säby (F), because I had already found a suitable Anna born 1738-02-08 (C:3 Säby p 156), born at Vinterstorp, Säby - parents Bengt Arvidsson (Vinter) and Maja Bengtsdotter.
 
C:3 Säby p 161
*1740-03-22 Elin
Vinterstorp, soldier Bengt Arvidsson and Maria Bengtsdotter.
 
1732-04-09 Ingebor(g), 1735-08-04 Sven, the same parents as above. I can´t find a fitting marriage though for Bengt and Maja...
 
I will send an e-mail to a researcher that is an expert of Säby parish, Olle Elm. Perhaps he can contribute with some more information.
 
Regards
 
Britt-Marie
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av bmw 2012-08-18 16:46)

[Olle Elm]

Hi Britt-Marie,
The name of the expert on Säby parish is Hans Egerskog. http://www.genealogi.se/smaland.htm
Perhaps you can put forward a question on Landskap » Småland » Socknar » Säby  
Regards from,
Olle Elm

[Britt-Marie Waller]

Thanks Olle! Of course Hans Egeskog is the one to put the question to, it´s Adelöv (in the same area) that´s one of your parishes...
 
Thank you for your answer!
 
Britt-Marie

[Kathryn Stone]

Thank you Britt-Marie and Karen for carrying on without me!  
What a treat to have so much research ready for me upon my return home. You people are the absolute best!  
 
I am reading and re-reading your information, trying to get it all straight in my head. I did already have the info regarding Jonas Jönsson & Catherine Olofsdotter, although I had missed that she married him as a widow. I will have to look into that further.
 
And if I have this straight, Annika Bengtsdotter was one of 4 children born to soldier Bengt Winter Arvidsson and Maja Bengtsdotter. Annika was married first to Erik Andersson with whom she had Maria and Anders. She was married second to Salomon Larsson. Salomon Larsson was married first to Anna Olofsdotter with whom he had Lars, Kerstin, and Ingrid. Next I will look at all the church records that you have referenced, and chart out all the other information you provided.  
 
I am so grateful that you not only noted my research error, but then also found the right ancestor for me!
How lucky can one person be?! I just can't thank you enough,
Kathryn

[Hans Egeskog]

Hi Kathryn (and Britt-Marie)
 
Some days ago I was reminded of this discussion that seems to have lead you to Säby parish where I have been trying to straighten out the family connections for some years now. And I think I have some new data to provide you with. But first let me thank you for enlighting me about what happened to Bengt Arvidsson´s two daughters Anna and Elin. I had no clue about what happened to them after they left their home parish. Thank you for helping me in my work on Säby families!
 
About Bengt Arvidsson and his wife Maria Bengtsdotter not much is known as to their origins. The only thing I have found on that subject is the household examination book in Säby 1769-1788, AI:2, page 172, where you can find them at Madastugan around 1770. That source claims that Bengt Arvidsson was born in 1691 in Rök parish, and Maria Bengtsdotter 1691 in Trehörna parish, both in Östergötland province. I have tried to find Bengt Arvidsson in Rök, but failed. Maria Bengtsdotter is impossible to find in Trehörna records if her birth year is correct, since the preserved church records from that parish starts in 1693! I have found no Maria Bengtsdotter in the years after 1693 that could be her.
 
But I have found their wedding in Trehörna, which took place on Nov 1 1724. In that notice Bengt is called soldier with no home adress, but Maria came from Slangeryd, Trehörna.
 
From military sources I have found that Bengt Arvidsson was hired as soldier on Sept 24 1722 for number 116 Mada östergård in Säby parish, but he was immediately transferred to another “rote”, number 135 Ryggestorp. There he served until 1733 when he was transferred to number 121 Vinterstorp. After this transfer he is sometimes called Bengt Winter in military sources. But in the church records when his children were born, he is never called Winter, only “Bengt Arvidsson” or “the soldier Bengt”.
In March 1742 he was again transferred, this time to number 118 Mada västergård. At the same time he was promoted to corporal. But already in November the same year, 1742, he was once again transferred to number 60 Taleryds norrgård in neighbouring parish Linderås.
 
Some months later, on March 1 1743, when there was a “roll call” in the Regiment, it says that Bengt Arvidsson is “home and sick”. The next time he appears in the records is in 1746 when his youngest child, the son Arvid, was born. He and his wife was then living in Slättåsstugan, Säby parish. Slättåsstugan was the home of the soldier for Slättås, but there is no record of Bengt Arvidsson ever having been transferred there. Probably he was discharged sometime between 1743 and 1746, and was allowed to live in Slättåsstugan for a short while, since there seems to have been a gap between soldiers for Slättås between 1744, when Mårten Lind died, and 1747 when Jonas Israelsson Lind was recruited.
 
In 1759, and also around 1770, Bengt Arvidsson and his wife was living at Madastugan according to Säby AI:1 and Säby AI:2.
 
When Bengt died, on May 16 1782 in Säby, the death book says nothing about where he lived, only that he was 90 years old. I have not been able to find the death of his wife Maria Bengtsdotter in Säby, so I don´t know if she survived her husband or if she was dead before him.
 
You wrote in your last entry that you thought Bengt and Maria had four children. That is not correct. They had at least seven. They were:
 
Per Bengtsson, born April 28 1725 on Mada properties, Säby, probably dead in 1759 on a campaign in northern Germany. He became soldier as his father, and served for number 118 Mada västergård. Married April 27 1755 in Säby to Katarina Persdotter. No children found.
 
Jöns Bengtsson, born November 19 1729 on Mada properties, Säby. Farmer and crofter on various places in Säby. Married July 20 1760 in Säby to Anna Andersdotter who was born in Askeryd parish. They had at least seven children.
 
Ingeborg Bengtsdotter, born April 9 1732 on Ryggestorp properties, Säby. She had two daughters, Kristina and Maria, born out of wedlock with two different fathers, before she married a widower, soldier Erik Andersson Kiällman, on Dec 26 1777. In her marriage she had no children and I don´t know when and where she died.
 
Sven Bengtsson, born Aug 4 1735 on Vinterstorp properties, Säby, dead Sept 4 1774 at Bygget, Tokarp properties, Säby. He was a farmer in Brandebo and Rubban before he moved to Bygget. Married Nov 11 1759 to the soldier´s daughter Kerstin Jönsdotter, born 1736 in Källeryd, Säby. They had five sons of which at least three died in infancy.
 
Anna Bengtsdotter and Elin Bengtsdotter have been mentioned above. They were both born on Vinterstorp properties, Säby.
 
Arvid Bengtsson, born Sept 19 1746 in Slättåsstugan, Slättås properties, Säby. Nothing more known about him.
 
This is what I know about Bengt Arvidsson and Maria Bengtsdotter. Sadly it seems to be the end of the road on this branch of your family tree. But I might have missed something that makes it possible to come further.
 
Best regards  
Hans Egeskog

[Kathryn Stone]

Hans,
 
Oh my goodness! Thank you so much for all of the information you have provided, I am just immensely grateful.
I am absolutely certain I would not have been able to gather all of that research on my own.
 
I cannot possibly thank you enough, but still  ...  thank you, thank you, thank you!
 
Sincerely,
Kathryn

[Kathryn Stone]

One last question regarding this group of ancestors:
 
Regarding Eric Andersson, the spouse of Anna Bengtsdotter.
.  .  .[see Klockrike C:1, page 327 | marriage date: 1767 NOV 21]
 
I have the birth records for two children born to them also in Klockrike.
.  .  .[see Anders 1769 MAR 17  |  C:1, page 265  &  Maria 1770 NOV 11  |  C:1, page 273]
In Ander's birth record, Eric is referred to as a servant; in Maria's birth record he is referred to as a saltpetersjudare.
 
I can find no other records of him, and in 1783 his wife Anna is referred to as a widow.
 
Does anyone have a idea about how to find further information about him? I would love to know a birth date/place or death date/place, or if he remained a saltpetersjudare in Klockrike or elsewhere. Is it possible that that occupation is tracked elsewhere and might provide further information? Is there a 1780 census?
 
I have scrolled through church records for Klockrike, Älvestad [mentioned in the marriage record], Örtomta [where Anna ended up], and Säby [where Anna was born] ... all to no avail, though it is possible I missed something as some records are very difficult to guess at.  
 
Any ideas?
 
lots and lots of thanks for everything,
Kathryn