Rockström, Maria Sophia, Lindgren, Hilda M, Sandy Smith

[Sandra Kay Rockstrom Smith]

Hello,  
 
I am inquiring aboutt Maria Sophia Rockstöm born to Stina Greta Mansdötter and Anders August Rockström out of wedlock in Skedvi 1852. She was my great grandfather's sister.
 
I had an earlier discussion going about my ancestors last summer and have been away from my research for some time now, but have recently been working on the years my ancestors spent in Saint Paul, Minnisota after emigrating from Sweden in the 1880's.
 
Chris Bingfors indicated Maria Sophia emigrated with her husband Anders Fredrick Carlsson and children in 1886. Researching the census records here I find that she stated she was married to Charles Stein in Sweden about 1877. Charles emigrated in 1882. Maria and 3 children, Ella Maria b. Mar 1878; Ernest b. about 1878 (were Ella and Ernest twins? Their mother was one of twins...) and Andrew b. Feb 1880. emigrated in 1886.  
 
I will be traveling to Saint Paul later this month and have arranged to meet with a granddaughter of Maria Sophia - she is in her 80's now but still very sharp. I would like to see what the records in Sweden show about Maria Sophia before I talk to this distant cousin. I am looking for Maria Sophia's dates of birth, marriage and births for her children.  
 
I have a different inquiry about the wife of my great grandfather's brother. Johan Oskar Rockström emigrated in 1879 and Hilda Marie Lindgren emigrated in 1888 after which they were married. One of Hilda's decendants thinks there was a child born before the 3 children that are listed in our US records. I'm wondering if Hilda was married in Sweden and gave birth before emigrating to the US and marrying Johan Oskar Rockström. The US census records seem to indicate that Hilda was first married about 1887. She may have been born 23 Nov 1866 in Karstorp. An old family story is that Hilda's brother was a friend of Johan Oskar Rockström's and she was 'sent for' to marry JO.  
 
I am very excited to soon visit Saint Paul, a city so rich in my family history. Several family members are buried in a cemetery that I plan to visit, including Christine Rockström, also known as Stina Greta Månsdotter. I have been in contact with a historian from Saint Paul whose special interest is historic homes and several houses that the Rockström's lived in are still standing. That may seem odd to someone in a country where houses are often many centuries old, but it's not that common here in the US!  
 
Someday I hope to visit Sweden and perhaps even visit with some distant cousins there. I would love to share my US research with any interested relatives! Pehr - it's been awhile and most of my time now is devoted to this upcoming trip to Saint Paul, but I would like to hear more from you about our family history - stories of your maternal grandmother's life and such.  
 
You all have been so wonderful answering my questions in the past and I'm hoping to have more information before my trip to Minneapolis in less than 2 weeks!  
 
Sincerely,  
Sandy

[Judy Olson Baouab]

Emibas CD:
 
Emibas was made from registrations in the Swedish parish to go to a foreign country. It is about 75% complete.
 
Post 113019
 
Carlsson, Anders Fredrik
Arbetare = worker (married man)
 
b. 3/11/1850 in Västra Husby, Östergötlands län (Östergötland)
 
Emigrated 1886
from Valnöten, Norrköpings Matteus, Östergötlands län (Östergötland)
to Nordamerika
 
Source: Household Examination Roll, p. 301
 
Emibas migration file ID: Norrköpings Matteus E 1886 021
 
Post 113020
 
Roxström, Maria Sofia
Hustru = wife (married woman)
 
b. 4/24/1852 in Skeda, Östergötlands län (Östergötland)
 
Emigrated 1886
from Valnöten, Norrköpings Matteus, Östergötlands län (Östergötland)
to Nordamerika
 
Source: Household Examination Roll, p. 301
 
Emibas migration file ID: Norrköpings Matteus E 1886 022
 
Post 113021
 
Carlsson Andersson, Ernst Fredrik
Son = son (unmarried man)
 
b. 3/10/1878 in Norrköpings Sankt Olai, Östergötlands län (Östergötland)
 
Emigrated 1886
from Valnöten, Norrköpings Matteus, Östergötlands län (Östergötland)
to Nordamerika
 
Source: Household Examination Roll, p. 301
 
Emibas migration file ID: Norrköpings Matteus E 1886 023
 
Un-normalized versions:
 
Parish of birth: Norrköping S:t Olai
 
Post 113022
 
Carlsson Andersdotter, Elin Maria
Dotter = daughter (unmarried woman)
 
b. 3/10/1878 in Norrköpings Sankt Olai, Östergötlands län (Östergötland)
 
Emigrated 1886
from Valnöten, Norrköpings Matteus, Östergötlands län (Östergötland)
to Nordamerika
 
Source: Household Examination Roll, p. 301
 
Emibas migration file ID: Norrköpings Matteus E 1886 024
 
Un-normalized versions:
 
Parish of birth: Norrköping S:t Olai
 
Post 113023
 
Carlsson Andersson, Anders Ferdinand
Son (unmarried man)
 
b. 2/22/1880 in Norrköpings Sankt Olai, Östergötlands län (Östergötland)
 
Emigrated 1886
from Valnöten, Norrköpings Matteus, Östergötlands län (Östergötland)
to Nordamerika
 
Source: Household Examination Roll, p. 301
 
Emibas migration file ID: Norrköpings Matteus E 1886 025
 
Un-normalized versions:
 
Parish of birth: Norrköping S:t Olai
---------------------------------------------
Post 128549
 
Roxström, Johan Oscar
Smedslärling = apprentice blacksmith (unmarried man)
 
b. 1/23/1858 in Landeryd, Östergötlands län (Östergötland)
 
Emigrated 4/15/1879
from Sturefors, Vist, Östergötlands län (Östergötland)
to Nordamerika
 
Source: Household Examination Roll, p. 258
 
Emibas migration file ID: Vist E 1879 006
-----------------------------------------------
Post 76624
 
Lindgren, Hulda Maria (I realize she is not Hilda, with an i, but maybe?)
Piga = maid (unmarried woman)
 
b. 11/23/1866 in Rystad, Östergötlands län (Östergötland)
 
Emigrated 9/28/1888
from Slattefors Plöjantorp, Landeryd, Östergötlands län (Östergötland)
to Nordamerika
 
Source: Household Examination Roll, p. 113
 
Emibas migration file ID: Landeryd E 1888 015
 
Judy

[Sandra Kay Rockstrom Smith]

Hello Judy,
 
Thank you so much for your detailed information!  I see that as I had guessed Ernst and Elin were twins.  Is there a record of the date of marriage for Maria Sophia and Anders Fredrik Carlsson?  
 
I wonder if Anders died after coming to the US, and Maria then married Charles Stein.  Our census records show Charles was born in Sweden in February 1850 and immigrated in 1882. Pretty vague information, but all I have at this point.
 
I think you also found the correct Hilda or Hulda Lindgren.  I often find slight changes in the spelling of names.  My great grandfather was Claes August Rockstrom when he was buried here, but I've found other records of him as Klas or Klaus - mostly he went by C. A.  And seems the last name can be Roxström or Rockström.
 
Thank you again for your assistance.
 
Sandy

[Judy Olson Baouab]

They were married 16 December 1876, according to the 1885-1890 husförhörslängd (HFL; clerical survey record; household examination record) for Norrköpings Norra (Matteus) parish. That handwritten record is online at the fee-based Genline site.
 
http://www.genline.com
 
This is the specific page on Genline where this record can be found.
 
GID # 460.6.71500
 
That record lists their household and those children were specifically listed as twins (tvillingar) in that record.
 
The wife Maria Roxström is listed as Methodist with the date 15 September 1884.
 
There will be a more detailed record of their marriage in the marriage book for the parish where they married, but I don't have time to search to see where they were married and find those details for you. The record should easily be found on Emibas in the SCB records (most likely in Östergötland län) if you join Genline, and perhaps someone else has the time to search for you.
 
Genline tells about the SCB records.
 
http://www.genline.com/databasen/SCB-materialet.php

[Judy Olson Baouab]

Try to find more about Charles Stein. Maybe he will be found in the records of the Swenson Swedish Immigration Research Center. They have a website but their extensive collection of records is not online.
 
http://www.augustana.edu/swenson/
 
Stein is possible but Sten is more likely, assuming he didn't just leave Sweden with his patronymic name. (name ending with son) Many of our emigrants used patronymics when they emigrated and changed later on to a surname.
 
My mormor married a Wennersten in her first marriage but I've found Wennerstens listed as Wennerstein in U.S. records, so maybe the same thing happened to your Stein. He might have been Sten first.
 
Here is a listing of Sten males with a given name starting with C or K and emigrating from 1880-1884 who are on the Emihamn database, which consists of registrations with Swedish port police.
 
Could any of these be yours?
 
  STEN          C             29    TUNHEM        P     1880   CHICAGO
  STEN          C A           20    HÅGSTA        E     1882   ROCKFORD ILL
  STEN          C F           34    LJUNGBY       F     1882   DILON
  STEN          CARL          20    KARLSKOGA     T     1883   LAKE CITY
  STEN          CARL A        47    FÄSSBERG      OA    1882   NEW YORK
  STEN          CARL EDVARD   18    EKEBY         E     1883   INDEPENDENCE
  STEN          CARL JOHAN    35    BJURTJÄRN     S     1883   HARRIS
  STEN          CARL O        31    HAMMAR        T     1881    
  STEN          CARL OSE      17    ÄLMEBODA      G     1881   NEW YORK
  STEN          KARL JOHAN    21    QVISTBRO      T     1882   MUSKEGON
 
 
Carl O. is closest to the right age and year of emigration but there isn't enough information to be sure of anything.
 
First name: CARL O
Last name: STEN
Age: 31     Gender: M
Parish: HAMMAR     County: T (Örebro)
Port: GÖTEBORG
Date: 1881 09 02 (September 9)
Fellows: NEJ
Source: 18:342:3078
 
Judy

[Mats Ahlgren]

When I look at the family in Norrköping S:t Olai, AI:92, Husförhör,1883-1888, page 572 (Genline GID 346.151.21300) is says something about Anders Fredrik. I can't read it all but it is something about North Amerika and 1884.
 
Could he have been in US Before 1886?

[Mats Ahlgren]

And when Maria and the three children arrives to New York, July 24, 1886 on board Hekla, it is no sign of the husband. Did he leave earlier?
 
I can see Maria and the children on CD Emigranten, Source code 29:268:2517. No Anders Fredrik found leaving at this time.
 
Could he have changed the name to Charles Stein?

[Mats Ahlgren]

And a look into Norrköpings S:t Olai, AI:84 Husförhör, 1878- 1883, page 542  (Genline GID 346.186.2700 ) shows a remark on Anders Fredrik, i N Amerika (in North Amerika). No date, No Year, but it can't be later than 1883 (I guess)

[Sandra Kay Rockstrom Smith]

Once again I thank you Judy and Mats!  
 
Most of my information to date has come from our census records and in 1900 one of the questions asked was 'Number of years of present marriage'.  Both Charles and Maria stated they had been married 23 years, so I think it must be that Charles Stein is Anders Fredrik Carlsson but seems strange that he would change his name to something so different!  This is also the census record that says Charles immigrated to the US in 1882 and Maria w/children in 1886.  This census also asks month and year of birth and here Charles states he was born in February of 1850 - not March.  Other than that all information matches.  I will be visiting with a granddaughter of Charles and Maria, Anders Ferdinand's youngest daughter.  Perhaps she will have an answer!  
 
Thank you,
Sandy

[Judy Olson Baouab]

The 1910 U.S. Federal Census has M1 (first marriage), M2 (second marriage), etc. so see what it says for Maria in 1910.
 
Judy

[Judy Olson Baouab]

By the way, the enumerator did not talk to each and every person in the household. They were lucky to find someone at home and took advantage of whatever that person could tell them and they did not have time to come back to each household to talk to every person living there.  
 
We have no idea who answered the questions so there can be inaccuracies in month and year of birth, year of immigration, etc. It might have been a child answering the questions or perhaps a neighbor answered or perhaps the person was confused because English was still new or
 
The U.S. Censuses are not known for accuracy and one census is not necessarily consistent with the next census. Even consistency is not a sign of accuracy. My farfar's date of immigration in each census was 1890 but several records (mostly Swedish records but also U.S. records) prove he actually left Sweden in 1891.
 
Judy

[Sandra Kay Rockstrom Smith]

Oh, thank you Judy!  I did not know the ennumerators asked about 1st or 2nd marriages in the 1910 census.  When I look at Charles and Mary (she was sometimes listed as Maria and sometimes Mary, but seems from her mother's obit that she went by Sophie)in the 1910 census I do see that it says M1 for each!  I do understand how ennumerators obtained their information and how many errors can occur.  I've been fortunate to find Charles and Mary as well as their children in enough census records that I'm pretty confident in the basic information that I have so far.  By the way, in 1910 they were both living with their youngest son and Charles died in 1914.  Could Anders have first emigrated in 1882, then came back to Sweden to leave again with wife and children in 1886?
 
Sandy

[Judy Olson Baouab]

I think it is more likely that he went ahead of the rest of the family to get a home and a job, since he was not found with them on the ship's manifest. It could be that the priest didn't record that he was not still in the parish (and he had not registered to leave) and the priest's record keeping wasn't up to date and somehow it looked (to the person transcribing the records for Emibas) as if he left at the same time as the rest of the family.
 
Having said that, I have seen cases in which the husband went back to escort his family but it doesn't seem to have happened in this case.
 
Maybe someone has the death certificate of Charles Stein and you can compare his birthdate to that of Anders Fredrik Carlsson.
 
Judy

[Mats Ahlgren]

I can't see Anders in CD Emigranten or the passenger list from New York for 1886. Perhaps he went away without proper papers and when the wife left it was marked in the church book.

[Judy Olson Baouab]

You wrote: One of Hilda's decendants thinks there was a child born before the 3 children that are listed in our US records.
 
The 1900 and 1910 U.S. Federal Censuses have a column asking how many children a  mother has had and a different column asking how many children are still alive. Check that and see if there is evidence of another child.
 
Judy

[Sandra Kay Rockstrom Smith]

Hello friends,
 
I can not begin to tell you how grateful I am for your help and information!  My husband took me out for a motorcycle ride today (he helps me to remember that there is life beyond family history research!), we met a nice gentleman about my father's age and had quite a chat.  It's funny how much more interesting it is to talk to older generations when you are researching.  
 
Just after we started back home from the ride (and a good picnic) it dawned on me (if I hadn't had a helmet on I literally would have been hitting my forehead with the palm of my hand) Anders Fredrik Carlsson = Carl Sten = Charles Stein!  Sometimes I can be so slow....  I would guess this is how Anders became Charles! Bet he didn't want to rock the boat and just went with the flow when his name was miss-interpreted.  I will be copying Charles death certificate when I visit Minnesota in less than 2 weeks so that should help clarify things.
 
How about this mystery.  I was told mother of Claes August Rockström was Stina Greta Månsdotter b. 17 April 1825 emigrated from Landeryd 26 April 1880 with son Claes (Klas) and daughter Emma Kristina in the flyttlängd.  Then in the Gothenburg Emihamn Klas (CA Rockström) is listed as leaving April 30 with mother/widow Edla Rockström aged 50.  The ship manifest for the SS Canada arriving New York 19 May, 1880 lists passengers C,.A. Rockstrom 23 year old male laborer, Edla Rockstrom 50 year old MALE LABORER, Wilhelmine Rockstrom 20 year old female spinster and Emma Rockstrom 18 year old female spinster.  I can follow Stina Greta fibbing about her age as she was an older female wanting to gain admission to the US - but why would she change her name to Edla, and was she posing as a male or was that just an error on the part of the person registering the ship's passengers? I do find her as Christine Rockstrom in the US and have been tracing her history from there.
 
As to Hulda Marie, yes I do see in the 1910 census that she said she had given birth to 4 children with 3 living.  I haven't found Johan and Marie in the 1900 census yet.  I do know of the 3 children that were surviving in 1910.  Now that I know about that number of marriages question (thank you again, Judy) they indicate that the marriage of Johan and Hilda was the first for them both.  Either Hulda gave birth out of wedlock before leaving Sweden, of after she arrived in the US.  Her oldest surviving child was born about 1890 and she immigrated in 1888.  I believe Johan and Hulda were married in 1889 in Saint Paul.
 
Again, my many thanks!
 
Sandy

[Judy Olson Baouab]

Have you seen the handwritten ship arrival manifests or just the transcription of those manifests? I have seen some very bad transcriptions, probably because the transcriber was not familiar with Swedish names.
 
I doubt she posed as a male. The person writing the manifest probably saw the Ed* part and assumed that meant male. (I think they filled in names first and then, when they had time, filled in genders.)
 
Emibas (parish registrations to leave for a foreign country):
 
Post 76558
 
Roxström Månsdotter, Anna Greta
Widow
 
b. 4/17/1825 in Skeda, Östergötlands län (Östergötland)
 
Emigrated 4/26/1880
from Sandbacken, Landeryd, Östergötlands län (Östergötland)
to Nordamerika
 
Source: Household Examination Roll, p. 154
 
Emibas migration file ID: Landeryd E 1880 011
 
Post 76559
 
Roxström, Klas August
Arbetare = worker. (unmarried man)
 
b. 8/26/1856 in Landeryd, Östergötlands län (Östergötland)
 
Emigrated 4/26/1880
from Sandbacken, Landeryd, Östergötlands län (Östergötland)
to Nordamerika
 
Source: Household Examination Roll, p. 154
 
Emibas migration file ID: Landeryd E 1880 012
 
Post 76560
 
Roxström, Emma Kristina
Piga = maid. (unmarried woman)
 
b. 3/6/1862 in Landeryd, Östergötlands län (Östergötland)
 
Emigrated 4/26/1880
from Skonberga, Landeryd, Östergötlands län (Östergötland)
to Nordamerika
 
Source: Household Examination Roll, p. 22
 
Emibas migration file ID: Landeryd E 1880 013
 
Emihamn (registrations with Swedish port police):
 
First name: C A
Last name: ROCKSTRÖM
Age: 23     Gender: M
Parish: LANDERYD     County: E
Port: GÖTEBORG
Date: 1880 04 30
Destination: CHICAGO
Fellows: NEJ
Source: 14:604:8633
 
First name: EDLA (who seems to be Anna Greta, so perhaps the error happened before they even got on the ship, but she was listed as female, so the manifest has an error that didn't exist before she boarded the ship)
Last name: ROCKSTRÖM
Age: 50  (a bit off)   Gender: K
Parish: LANDERYD     County: E
Title/Note: MODER (mother)
Port: GÖTEBORG
Date: 1880 04 30
Destination: CHICAGO
Fellows: JA
Source: 14:604:8633
 
I don't see Emma Kristina on Emihamn.
 
Judy

[Judy Olson Baouab]

Remember that some states had censuses in off years (usually but not always in years ending with 5). You mentioned some Rockströms died in Minnesota. That is one of the states with those extra censuses.
 
Much of what I have learned about my Swedes after they landed in the U.S. has come from the Swenson Swedish Immigration Research Center. They have a website but their extensive collection of records is not online.
 
http://www.augustana.edu/swenson/
 
Perhaps that missing child was alive long enough to be found in the baptism records and later, in the death records of a Swedish American church and don't forget the wonderful obituaries many of our Swedes had in Swedish-American newspapers.
 
Judy

[Sandra Kay Rockstrom Smith]

Hello Judy,
 
Earlier information I received about my g-g-grandmother was that she was Stina Greta Månsdotter born in Skedvi, Östergötland 17 April 1825.  She was one of twins (her sister being Charlotta) born to Magnus Orre and Anna Greta Jonsdotter.  Was her name really Anna Greta, or was it Stina Greta?  I know she went by Christina in the US.
 
Again, I can not say how grateful I am for your help and information - it is all so very interesting and appreciated!
 
Sandy

[Sandra Kay Rockstrom Smith]

Oh, yes - I have seen the handwritten ship arrival manifest and it's pretty clear so I think was accuratly transcribed.
 
Sandy

[Sandra Kay Rockstrom Smith]

Hello,
 
In the following information can you tell me what the Fellows portion indicates?  For Edla it says JA and for CA it says NEJ.
Emihamn (registrations with Swedish port police):  
 
First name: C A  
Last name: ROCKSTRÖM  
Age: 23 Gender: M  
Parish: LANDERYD County: E  
Port: GÖTEBORG  
Date: 1880 04 30  
Destination: CHICAGO  
Fellows: NEJ  
Source: 14:604:8633  
 
Thanks,
Sandy

[Judy Olson Baouab]

Fellows is a British English translation of Medåkande and the Fellows: Ja (yes) or Nej (no) refers to others traveling on the same ticket. I have found that often the Nej is incorrect and there are others with that person.  
 
The source numbers refer to volume:page: ticket number.
 
E is the code for Östergötland län (county).
 
Judy

[Sandra Kay Rockstrom Smith]

Hello again Judy,
 
Thank you so much for the information about the particulars of the Emihamn records.  It is difficult to put as much energy and effort into my research when I am a working gal, married and holding down an 8-5 (ok, sometimes it's more like 8-9!) as I'd like.
 
My trip to Minnesota is only a week away and I wish I had more than one day to explore and visit the area and the Minnesota Historical Society (a block from my hotel!)  
 
I have looked at the site for the Swenson Swedish Immigration Research Center, but living in Arizona I don't know when I could visit there.  I've also looked at the Genline Site.  I'm paying a monthly subscription now for Ancestry.com and that's about all my budget will allow.  Perhaps I'll have to let Ancestry go and focus on Genline for awhile...  
 
What do you think about the possibility that Anders Fredrik Carlsson and Charles Stein are one and the same?  I've looked in Ancestry.com for a ship record for both names in 1882 and 1886 (US Census records indicate Charles Stein immigrated from Sweden in 1882, and Sweden records indicate Anders Frederik Carlsson emigrated in 1886 with wife Maria Sophia and 3 children).  I have a strong feeling that they are one and the same but don't know how to trace it.  Hopefully I'll see the death certificate for Charles Stein when I visit MN next week.  
 
Your help (and your's also, Mats) is greatly appreciated!
 
Sandy

[Carl Wolf]

Hi Sandy, I have subscriptions to both Ancestry and Genline, and I think you'll find that Genline is far more helpful as far as researching your family history in Sweden.  The only Swedish records currently on Ancestry are the emigration records from the Emigranten Popular CD and in my opinion Ancestry's search function is not very useful for this.  You may also find that the Genline subscription is not quite as expensive as you thought once you convert Swedish Krona to US dollars, which I think is about one-third.
 
If you haven't already, you might check out the books Your Swedish Roots by Per Clemmensson and Kjell Andersson, or Cradled in Sweden by Carl-Erik Johansson.  Your Swedish Roots will guide you step by step with how to research the parish records and is available  through Genline's site (under the Resources tab), and you can also find both on Amazon.com.
 
-Carl

[Sandra Kay Rockstrom Smith]

Thank you for research information, Carl.  I have heard that Genline is very good for doing Swedish ancestry research and believe one of my distant Rockstrom cousins has recently subscribed.  
 
I received some information that the father of Anders Fredrik Carlsson was Carl Peter Stein.  I would like to find out about Carl Peter Stein and his wife/children.  This would now make more sense that Anders and his family changed their last name to Stein in the US.
 
Thank you all again,
Sandy

[Mats Ahlgren]

Sandra
 
Anders Fredrik was born Feb 26 1850 in Västar Husby. Baptized March 1. He was the son of Carl Petter Stein and his wife Brita Stina Persdotter.
(Source Birthbook Västar Husby, C:¤)
 
According to Husförslängd Västra Husby, AI:12, 1841-1846, page 335 was Carl Petter born 1809 in Grebo, Brita Stina was born 1812.
Son Carl Johan born in Västra Husby Sept 4 1837, Frans August born Deb 1 1842 and Adolph Fredrik, born Nov(?) 1845
 
More info to come after dinner

[Mats Ahlgren]

Sandra
In Husförhör AI:13 for Västar Husby, 1846-1851, page 333, we can see that Mother Britta Stina was born March 12, 1812
 
Brother Carl Johan was born in Vittingby, brother Frans August was born February (miss spelling above), brother Adolph Fredrk was born January 22, 1845 and he died September 1, 1847. A new brother, Gustaf Alfred, born April 24, 1947 and we can see that the priest has written Anders Fredrik, 10/3 (March 10) 1850. That date is not the same as in the birth book.