Ide Krummedige

[M.Sjöström]

In several genealogies there seems to be a gateway ancestor, named Ide Krummedige, who if existed, must have lived in 14th century.
 
The lineage regularly given, places her as daughter of Sofie Pedersdatter of the Stygge, and mother of Karen Limbek who was wife of Bent III of Ahlefeldt.
I guess that Ide Krummedige, if she existed, lived mostly somewhere in or around province of Slesvig (= Southern Jutland). How is with actual historical records, what do they say?
 
Peder Nielsen of Ellinge (escutcheon: Galen)  
 m Ingefred Tokesdatter (Galen)  
- - - Peder Pedersen Stygge (Galen)
- - - m Ingefred Pedersdatter (Galen), d.bef.1350
- - - - - - Sofie Pedersdatter Stygge
- - - - - - m Hartvig Krummedige  
- - - - - - - - - Ide Krummedige
- - - - - - - - - m Claus Limbek
- - - - - - - - - - - - Cathrine Clausdatter Limbek
- - - - - - - - - - - - m Benedict III von Ahlefeldt
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Claus von Ahlefeldt af Sogaard d. 4 Aug 1404
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -                                    Volf von Ahlefeldt af Grönwold og Noer
 
 
The relative importance of Ide Krummedige's existence and verity of that genealogy through her, seems to be that it would be the almost only route how in later centuries anyone would provably descend from  Elsebe Pedersdatter of Kalundborg, and thus as source of plenty of later Danes to descend from Esbern Snare, who had Kalundborg built.
 
However, I have encountered also doubts whether such lineage actually existed, and particularly if that Ide Hartvigsdatter Krummedige ever lived. Thus, is there any near-contemporary attestations of her existence? What is known of her on basis of contemporary material?
And, how is the current situation in history research, the understanding of validity of that genealogy above? Is there any attestation of it in near-contemporary sources? And, would there be some known inheritances which were inherited along the entirety or a part of the lineage above?

[Urban Örneholm]

M.Sjöström,
 
I'm afraid I can't answer any of your questions, but I suggest that you post them also at www.dis-danmark.dk, where the Krummedige family in all probability has been discussed in several threads.
 
Best regards,
 
Urban Örneholm

[M.Sjöström]

The situation seems to be yet more complicated. I have now found Danmarks Adels Aarbog 1982-84, where there is a long and credible article (including full genealogy) about the House of Ahlefeldt. At least it appears that the said article is result of source-critical and respectable research.
(Does anyone know other assessments of that article?)
 
The article says basically that it is unclear who was mother of any children of Benedict III Ahlefeldt.
The article gives an understanding that his best known wife was Cathrine Clausdatter Limbaek. Whose parents were drots Claus Ottesen Limbaek and his wife Ide NN, and that specifically the said Ida's parentage is not known.
Then the article gives information that BEFORE lady Cathrine, Benedict III could have been married with Ide Hartvigsdatter Krummedige, Heiress of Kjaerstrup (it seems to have been indicated in some single source). In other words, precisely the same lady who in some other genealogy, now under suspicion (see my first message above), was put as lady Cathrine's mother.
Of course it would have been ecclesiastically next to impossible for daughter of the first wife to marry her mother's widower as his later wife. And such in all likelihood was not case here, rather there has been severe mix-up in some earlier genealogies.
 
Was Ide Krummedige married with Claus Limbek at all? I suspect she was not, but does anyone know what contemporary material and credible research say?
 
Was Ide Krummedige in any way mother (or biological ancestor) of Cathrine Clausdatter Limbaek, wife of Benedict III Ahlefeldt?
I suspect she was not, but does anyone know what contemporary material and credible research say?
 
Would the conclusion be that anyway, the existence of Ide Hartvigsdatter Krummedige, is ascertained? That she existed, and descended from lords of Taasinge island, having inherited Kjaerstrup?
Is there near-contemporary evidence about Ide Hartvigsdatter Krummedige's existence? I tend to believe there would be... what are references to such evidence?
 
Presumably, Claus von Ahlefeldt af Sogaard and Volf von Ahlefeldt af Grönwold og Noer were not descendants of Ide Hartvigsdatter Krummedige.
 
It could be that Henneke Ahlefeldt (a son of Benedict III, who had several children, possibly almost ten surviving ones), who is mentioned as owner of Kjaerstrup, and selling it to Margaret the union queen in 1380s, was child of Ide Krummedige. And that Kjaerstrup came to Henneke as maternal inheritance.
However, there seems to be no explicit mention of her being Henneke's mother, nor anyone else's. Or is there? Does anyone know of any evidence of who were Ide Krummedige's children?
 
Of course it is fully POSSIBLE that several, or even all, Benedict III's children were born of Ide Krummedige. However, such seems unlikely.
 
After reading the DAA 1982-84 article, my tentative conclusion is that Ide Krummedige was a lady who died relatively young. That she married only once, marrying Benedict III (and was never married with a Limbaek). And possibly she left one or a couple of little children. Who inherited her properties.
She died apparently around 1350s. Even already in 1349 or so. (It seems that Hartvig Krummedige is mentioned as owner of Kjaerstrup until c 1349.)
 
My further guess is that no child of Ide Krummedige has left further issue. That Volf and Claus, well-known of having founded surviving lineages, were not her children (I think so because of onomastical reasons). There is no mention that the son Henneke left issue.
Another guess is that after Ide Krummedige's children died out (which may have occurred already as young), their surviving father Benedict and his issue from another marriage inherited properties that originally belonged to Ide and her ancestors. Even Henneke may be such child of another marriage.
 
Besides, I now found a mention floating somewhere in the internet that Peder Pedersen Stygge (lord in Taasinge) was not necessarily son of Peder Nielsen of Ellinge (escutcheon: Galen) nor of the latter's wife Ingefred Tokesdatter (Galen). That there customarily is a question mark in credible genealogies as to that parentage.