Anders Peter Jonasson (Jonsson) - birth record discrepancy

[Tom Brown]

Hello again. 

I previously posted the parentage of Anders Peter Jonasson (Jonsson), and received some welcome help with a few items.  I have further researched the parents and grandparents,and have discovered some answers, but I still have some questions or missing information for several people.

In order not to provide too much information, and too many questions, I will post them separately and individually with specific questions that I still have difficulty with.  I will include ArkivDigital links where I can.

This is the first.  Thank You, Tom

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Anders' birth date is listed as 1835-3-14 in every household record where I can find him.  But I have been unable to find a birth record for that date. 

The only birth record i have found is for 1835-3-5. 

But the father's name (Jon Andersson) is not correct.  The mother's name (Elin Cajsa Persdotter) is correct. The Parish (Ålem) is correct, and the household (Korpemåla) is correct. 

I would like to know what the rest of the record entry for 1835-3-5 says, but it is too difficult for me.

I would also appreciate if anyone is able to find a birth record for 1835-3-14.

Thank you.  What I have is listed below...

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Anders Peter Jonasson (Jonsson)

Birth: 3/14/1835   3/5/1835 ? - *      Ålem,  Korpemåla,  Kalmar län, Sweden
Baptism:  ?            

(Ålem (H) C:7 (1832-1845) Image 36 / Page 63) ?
     (AID: v41593.b36.s63, NAD: SE/VALA/00462) ?
     (parents listed: Jon Andersson ?, Elin Cajsa Persdotter) - **

* - Anders’ birth date in every other household record (Ålem, Ryssby, Hagby and
Söderåkra) is 3/14/1835, but no birth record for 3/14/1835 found. Only for 3/5/1835.

** - The 3/5/1835 birth record (above) shows the correct mother, but the wrong father,
and the wrong date.  It incorrectly shows Jon Andersson as the father.

Jonas Samuelsson was the father, and his father was Samuel Andersson.
(The name of the father and grandfather could have been combined or confused?)

Elin Cajsa Persdotter is listed in most Parish household records as the mother.

Residences:    Ålem, Ryssby, Hagby, Söderåkra

Occupation:     
Seaman 1854      #308    
(Sjömanshuset i Kalmar (H) DIIa:2 (1847-1863) Image 820 / Page 76)
     (AID: v285049.b820.s76, NAD: SE/VALA/00666)

Ship Crew 1854      #308   Ship name:  “Galeas Sophia”
(Sjömanshuset i Kalmar (H) DIIIa:5 (1853-1854) Image 1910 / Page 159)
     (AID: v285106.b1910.s159, NAD: SE/VALA/00666) 

     Galeas: A two- or three-masted Scandinavian merchant vessel from the 18th and 19th century,
     similar to the earlier Dutch Galjoot. Unlike the Galjoot, however, the galeas had a square stern.

Emigration: __/__/__ ?    (age 22, 1857?)

     A letter from Anders’ sister, Sofia, confirms his age when he emigrated.
     An immigration record shows an Anders Jonsson arriving in the U.S. in 1857.

Death: 2/13/1907          Lindenwold, NJ USA

[Leif Lundkvist]

At those times the records were recorded manually and often got errors. As a researcher you can often explain how those errors have happened, but far from always. In this case the fathers name is obviously not correct in the birth record, I find no easy explanation. On the other hand the birth date seems to be wrong even in the first household examination, based on the fact that the birth record is recorded before the next child (born 10/3 on the next page) and that the date of the christening must also be wrong. Once the wrong birth date is recorded in an household examination it will be copied to the next volume, and you very seldom se it corrected, and it is more common that it has another future error.

[Tom Brown]

Leif,

I don't see the 10/3 birth you are referring to on the next page.  What name is associated with it, in case I'm looking in the wrong place? 

Were you looking at this record?
Ålem (H) C:7 (1832-1845) Image 37 / Page 65
(AID: v41593.b37.s65, NAD: SE/VALA/00462)

Also, are you able to tell me what the rest of the (possibly) wrong birth record says?

There are a bunch of other names that seem to be in some sort of order from record to record.  Are these witnesses or godparents or midwives?

[Ingemar Skarpås]

Hi Tom,

There can be a lot of mistakes being done, and I can try to find out the errors and possible explanations. If there are line number or one can count down to which line to refer to, that is the best way.


In your case I suggest you give info a of a bit later - the 1-3 household last earliest household records you have. Since I do only use the Swedish Archive (not using ArkivDigital) I need parish, AI-like syntax, between years x-y and the page number as handwritten, printed or stamped and line nr.


With time they changed the layouts of the books for a group of parishes, often within a Bishops seat, so what is in each column differs, and sometimes a column is used for other purposes than intended.


The lastname convention was patronymicon, the father´s firstname + genetiv/possession "s" and "son" and if the father´s firstname ended with an "s" we do not add possession "s", and even into the last part of 1800-reds you see the reverend or this clerk spell the parts as separate words, and also with a capital S for beginning of the word son. Like Pers Son and later PersSon before it became Persson. Also many male and female firstnames had a lot of similar shorts, and even shorts of shorts, and they were used intermixed rather as the reverend or clerk preferred himself. You also see the same male using patronymicon like Johansson as well as a family name, sometime only family name and sometimes the patronymicon. Familyname could be related to profession, but much lesser than in English, military names - assigned by the "rote"/croft name - group of people supporting a soldier - or assigned by officers - sometimes as nicknames. These were often later on used by the next soldier on the same croft, but no relation to the former...beware...


I be glad to assist you in explaining things...I have done quite a few for Americans...


Ingemar 

   

 

[Leif Lundkvist]

The record I refer to is för Adolph Fredric on top of page 64 (left hand side of page 65), born 10, christened 13, mother age 40.  The rest of the birth record is about Witnesses: Undantagsmannen Jan Nilsson in Melby and his wife Lisa Persdfotter. Drängen Anders Andersson i Korpamåla and Pigan Christina Andersdotter ibm (short för same place). These could be relatives to the parents or neighbours, Melby is a farm name in several close parishes, one of them is Förlösa. "Undantagsmannen" indicates that it is the former owner which is still living at his old farm, usually after estate distribution, could be parents or grandparents. There is no doubt that it is the right birth record for Anders Peter where his father got the wrong name. If the birth date is 5/3 or 14/3 can't be determined for sure, but I consider the birth record to be the right one.

[Tom Brown]

Hello Ingemar.

Here is what i have.

Tom

Anders-Peter-3-5-1835-birth-Ålem-H-C-7-1832-1845-Img-36-P-63-AD-ref           
   Ålem (H) C:7 (1832-1845) Image 36 / Page 63
        (AID: v41593.b36.s63, NAD: SE/VALA/00462) bottom right
   https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0029433_00041
   (Jon “Andersson” aka Jonas Samuelsson)  (Jonas Samuelsson, son of Samuel Andersson)

Anders-Petter-3-14-1835-birth-Ålem-H-C-7-1832-1845-Img-36-P-63-AD-ref
   Ålem (H) C:7 (1832-1845) Image 36 / Page 63
        (AID: v41593.b36.s63, NAD: SE/VALA/00462) bottom right
   https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0029433_00041

Anders-Petter-3-14-1835-house-Ålem-H-AI-11-1829-1835-Img-136-P-126-AD-ref
   Ålem (H) AI:11 (1829-1835) Image 136 / Page 126
        (AID: v24685.b136.s126, NAD: SE/VALA/00462)
   https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0029407_00138

Anders-Peter-3-14-1835-house-Ålem-H-AI-12-1836-1847-Img-153-P-141-AD-ref
Ålem (H) AI:12 (1836-1847) Image 153 / Page 141
        (AID: v24686.b153.s141, NAD: SE/VALA/00462)
        https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0029408_00163

Anders-Peter-3-14-1835-house-Ryssby-H-AI-12-1837-1849-Img-97-P-84-AD-ref
   Ryssby (H) AI:12 (1837-1849) Image 97 / Page 84
        (AID: v23920.b97.s84, NAD: SE/VALA/00312)
   https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0028538_00099

Anders-Peter-Jonsson-3-14-1835-house-Hagby-H-AI-5-1850-1860-Img-10-AD-ref
   Hagby (H) AI:5 (1850-1860) Image 10
        (AID: v22265.b10, NAD: SE/VALA/00117)
   https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0027271_00010

Anders-Peter-3-14-1835-house-Ryssby-H-AI-14-1850-1861-Img-155-P-820-AD-ref
   Ryssby (H) AI:14 (1850-1861) Image 155 / Page 820
        (AID: v23922.b155.s820, NAD: SE/VALA/00312)
   https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0028540_00154
 
Anders-Peter-3-14-1835-house-Söderåkra-H-AI-7-1855-1860-Img-342-P-329-AD-ref
   Söderåkra (H) AI:7 (1855-1860) Image 342 / Page 329
        (AID: v24105.b342.s329, NAD: SE/VALA/00362)
   https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0028673_00347
 
Anders-Peter-Jonsson-3-14-1835-house- Söderåkra-H-AI-8-B-1861-1871-Img-106-P-411-AD-ref
   Söderåkra (H) AI:8b (1861-1871) Image 106 / Page 411
        (AID: v55056.b106.s411, NAD: SE/VALA/00362)
   https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0028674_00378

Anders-Peter-Jonsson-3-14-1835-house-3-brothers- Söderåkra-H-AI-8-B-1861-1871-Img-404-P-709-AD-ref
   Söderåkra (H) AI:8b (1861-1871) Image 404 / Page 709
        (AID: v55056.b404.s709, NAD: SE/VALA/00362) Line 26
   https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0028674_00656
   

[Tom Brown]

Hello Leif.

thanks for your explanation.

Are you able to translate or tell me the rest of the Anders Peter record, with the names and places included?

Tom

[Leif Lundkvist]

See my previous post?

[Ingemar Skarpås]

Hello again Tom,


I agree with Leif that was only a typo type of mistake from the priest/clerk. I don't think you should use "aka" for the lastname, he was never known under that name publicly.


Just did a short check further back to see if he or his father was found locking at Jon/as (which is sometimes also used as a short for Johannes - the Swedish name for biblical John) but apparently he was not born in Ålem.

In the column "Besked No 19" H 1834- that refers to the logg of all incoming or outgoing mostly from other parishes or sub-parishes (we call them annex). You can find that i Ålem BII:1 1834 left side number 14 of that year, 1 male 2 females and his occupation and name.


I dont have time today to interpret the columns of the H-series, but can do it tomorrow if you like.


Regards,


Ingemar

[Tom Brown]

Hello Leif.  I misunderstood which household you were referring to in your previous post.  I re-read it more carefully and realized it was for Anders' birth.

Sorry for the confusion.

Tom

[Tom Brown]

Hello Ingamar. I would certainly appreciate any clarity you can provide. I appreciate your taking the time, but no hurry.

I will be posting a few other queries about close relatives in a few days.

Thank you.

Tom

[Ingemar Skarpås]

Hello Tom,


I have put together something that I sent before to others but with some changes so it refers to a couple of the links you sent, the 1835-39 and 1861-1871. Unfortunately I have lost a bit of 10-12 year old emails in a conversion with another American almost weekly during that period, but I had some of the things I put together in a manuscript form and modified it.


I had to modify what I had done previously because the H-series HFL in that part of Småland is rather different from what I have used with Americans before. Before it has Been Halland, Småland, Blekinge, Skåne, Västergötland and up in Norrland, the 8 northernmost old counties/administrative districts (2/3s of Sweden). There are other episcopal see in Småland that I am more familiar with in research for Swedes.


This is not in a state to be published here, but you can get it in two pdf-files by hooking up to me by my name here but on Facebook messenger, I have two other message systems that I rarily use.

Also this far it is about HFLs with pointers to movings I-series C-series- births. 


I will be away the rest of the day coming home late at night, but if there is a messenger request from you I could probably send them right away.


Ingemar
 


 

[Tom Brown]

Hello Ingamar.

I am on a road trip for a few days and away from my computer.  So there is no hurry.  I will try and message you in a few days.

Tom

[Tom Brown]

Hello Ingemar.

i tried to FB Message you and also sent a private message here in AnbytarForum with my email address. 

I will be around until next Monday and then on a trip until May 4th.  I will post a few more separate inquiries shortly, in case anyone has any insights.

As always, i appreciate your help.

Tom