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Författare Ämne: Need help reading marriage record  (läst 801 gånger)

2022-03-15, 15:20
läst 801 gånger

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Can anyone help with the attached 1735 marriage record?  There are several words, which I've circled. 

Bollerup (L) CI:1 (1700-1751) Image 1030 / Page 97 (AID: v97937a.b1030.s97, NAD: SE/LLA/13033)
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v97937a?image=1030&page=97

I think it says:

23 March 1735 marriage between dr, Anders Nilsson and pig. Karna Nilsdotter from Bollerup ?, and ? ? ? from Bollerup.

Karna, I understand, was used in Skåne as a variation of the name Karin.  Is that correct?

Thanks for your help,

Vicki

2022-03-15, 19:43
Svar #1

Utloggad Ulf Svensson

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Hi,

#1 Correct about Karna.
#2 Kyrka, church
#3 och nu äro Boende uthi, and are now living in




2022-03-15, 19:58
Svar #2

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thanks very much, Ulf!

So, they are living at Bollerup.  How does the Bollerup church fit in?  Does it tell us that is where they were married, not where they are from? Or?

Thanks again for your help,

Vicki

2022-03-15, 20:06
Svar #3

Utloggad Ulf Svensson

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March 23 married 'drängen' Anders Nillsson and 'pigan' Karna Nillsdotter at Bollerup church...
So it states the place of marriage.

Just guessing, but you may find 'i hemmet', at home or 'i prästgården', at the rectory in other marriage records.

2022-03-15, 20:10
Svar #4

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank so much for clarifying that! 

So, I still don't know here they were living before their marriage or where they came from. 

Your help is much appreciated,

Vicki

2022-03-16, 18:38
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Utloggad Marianne Karlsson

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Victoria, they lived for sure in Bollerup at the time when they were married. She worked as a "maid" and he as a farmhand.
Perhaps he worked at his father´s place.
I can see that there were children born to a Farmer Anders Nilsson (could of course be another A N) in March 1736 and August 1737.
Name of the mother is not mentioned.
My guess is that he took over the home farm from his father when married with Karna. That would be the usual, with the old folkes living in the same house.
Perhaps someone has a "Mantalslängd" where the family could be found? That´s a register for tax record.

2022-03-16, 20:05
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Hi Marianne,

Thank you so much for this information.  It's very interesting!  I am unfamiliar with this area, so I may be way off in my search.  I have been trying to locate where my ancestors Anders Nilsson and his wife Karin Nilsdotter were from. 

So far I have only one child for them, named Elin Andersdotter and she was born in Stråhult, Vrå in 1745.  This Anders Nilsson and his wife were living in Stråhult, Vrå until the mid 1760's when I believe he and his wife Karin moved, along with their daughter and her husband, to Torpa parish where Anders and Karin later died.  I have found his estate inventory, which also shows a brother name Lars Nilsson who was living in Singsjö, Vrå in 1771. 

So, I've trying to figure out where Anders Nilsson and wife Karin came originally as I haven't been able to find other children or a marriage record for them anywhere in Kronoberg county.

This is what led me to try the surrounding areas - this particular marriage, for Anders Nilsson and a Karna Nilsdotter is the only thing that seems to fit (at least that I've found). 

Your information would make sense because I figured that if they married in 1735 there would be earlier children who I couldn't previously find.  So those 2 children I will try to learn more about!

There are so many Anders Nilssons!! but not so many that are married to a Karin or Karna Nilsdotter in that time frame, so it is possible.

Again, I thank you very much for this!!  I really appreciate it!

Vicki

2022-03-16, 22:02
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Utloggad Marianne Karlsson

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Sorry, I would be very surprised IF they moved from Vrå of Torpa to Bollarp in
THE very South of Skåne, Malmöhus. Their names are also very common
.

2022-03-16, 22:08
Svar #8

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Hi Marianne,

I appreciate your input - actually I was thinking of the other way around.  :)  But, that would be the same I suppose.  (from Bollerup to Vrå to Torpa).

My research has been confined mainly to various parishes in Kronoberg, so I'm very unfamiliar with parishes and counties outside of there.

I certainly would welcome your thoughts on where, outside of Kronoberg, I might look!

Thanks so much,

Vicki

2022-03-17, 00:18
Svar #9

Utloggad Klas Wallén

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HI Victoria!

There was a Nils in Stråhult in the early 1700's I think. Perhaps he was the father of your Anders Nilsson? You should check up marriages in the surrounding Parishes (or perhaps you have?) and look for Anders Nilsson and Karin/Katarina/Kajsa/Carin/Catharina/Cajsa and similar(That name can be spelled in several ways) Nilsdotter. It is more likely that you find her there than in Southern Skåne more than 100 American miles away. I have several discs with over a million marriages in Southern Sweden, but not in Koronbergs Län I am affraid. I still checked them up and the closest I came (with Anders Nilsson and variations of Karin Nilsdotter 1720-1745) to Ljungby in western Kronoberg was Nässjö (Flisby Parish) and Kalmar (Ålem Parish) but that is still too long distance to be probable I think, almost as far away as Bollerup.

Do you have any clues like how old Anders and Karin were when they died or some data from a husförhör?

Here are the Parishes in Sunnerbo Härad:


I Markaryds kommun

Markaryds socken
Hinneryds socken
Traryds socken

I Älmhults kommun

Göteryds socken
Hallaryds socken
Pjätteryds socken
I Ljungby kommun

Vittaryds socken
Berga socken
Dörarps socken
Ryssby socken
Tutaryds socken
Agunnaryds socken
Odensjö socken
Lidhults socken
Vrå socken
Annerstads socken
Torpa socken
Nöttja socken
Angelstads socken
Ljungby socken
Kånna socken
Södra Ljunga socken
Hamneda socken

Since you think they moved to Torpa I would start with that one and then take the ones in Ljungby Kommun.

Regards


Klas

2022-03-17, 01:14
Svar #10

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Hi Klas!

Thanks for your response,  This is very helpful.   I actually know quite a lot about him:

Anders Nilsson
b. ca 1711 (age based on age at time of death record)
d. 1771-03-17 Torpa, Torpa, Kronoberg
He was married to a woman named Karin b. ca 1715 (based on age at time of death) d. 1783-04-24 Torpa, Torpa, Kronoberg
They had one daughter, Elin Andersdotter, b. 1745 in Stråhult, Vrå, d. 1772-06-05 Torpa, Torpa, Kronoberg
Anders Nilsson first appeared in Stråhult, Vrå about 1744 according to the tax records but had disappeared by 1768.  His daughter Elin appears in the tax records there in the years 1762 and 1763.  She married Lars Persson (klöckare) in 1764 Lars Persson was farming with his mother-in-law as Elin's father was sickly.  By 1768, all of them had left Stråhult.  Elin and Lars moved to Torpa in Torpa parish, in Kronoberg and that is where I subsequently found the death records for her parents.  I believe the parents were being cared for by daughter Elin and husband Lars, although the Torpa household records aren't available until 1784 - 1 year after Elin's mother Karin died.  The estate inventory after the death of Anders Nilsson indicated his wife's name is Karin Nilsdotter and it also indicated that he had a brother Lars Nilsson who was living in Singsiö, Vrå (in 1771).  The daughter Elin's husband, Lars Persson, died a year after her father died in Torpa, Torpa and was buried there 1772-06-05. There is also an estate inventory for Lars Persson taken in 1772 following his death in Torpa.  The widow Elin Andersdotter remarried in 1775 and continued to live in Torpa until her death in Rya,Torpa 1829-01-01.

I can only find 1 child for them which appears to either be the only child or the last child.  Since I can't find a marriage record in any of the Kronoberg parishes (but I haven't tried all of the alternate spellings of Karin's name as I didn't know all of them!) I wondered if they were from somewhere other than Kronoberg.  Maybe they were married somewhere else and/or had more children.  Based on the ages of the parents at the time of Elin's birth in 1745 would have been ages 34 and 30 so that is entirely possible. 

My knowledge is limited to Kronoberg. It is a bit difficult when you don't understand the distances and travel of the time, so I'm probably in over my head with this one, but that's ok.  I enjoy the search.  :)

I'd double back through what I've done so far and then move on.

Thanks so much for your insight and help!

Vicki


2022-03-17, 01:37
Svar #11

Utloggad Klas Wallén

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Hi Victoria!

There is something really strange here. I found this information on a site:

Anders Nilsson

Father:   Nils Eriksson (1688? - 1741) Lived in Stråhult and died in Singsjö Vrå
Mother:   Sigrid Jönsdotter (1680? - 1758) Vrå
Anders was Born 1720-11-22 Mäste, Vrå (G).
Died 1791-01-23 Singsjö, Vrå
Married to Kerstin Svensdotter
Brother Lars Nilsson who was born in Stråhult but later lived in Singsjö Vrå.

http://genealogy.thorstensson.se/slaktdata/David_Nilsson/p2fb8f9cb.html

I also think that this Anders Nilsson had a daughter called Elin!

Something might be wrong but it seems like it is worth checking up much more. Perhaps they have mix up some Anders and Lars here or you have gotten some info wrong? I saw the Bouppteckning and that they claim Lars Nilsson in Singsjö was the brother of the Anders who died in 1771. There were no kids listed though their daughter Elin/Ellen were alive then. I also saw the marriage reccord but Karins patronym is not noted there. This whole thing is so strange so I think you should take a closer look at this info and also your own again.
Also Lars Nilsson married twice, both times in Lidhult. There are no records preserved from that time. Your ANders and Karin might have been married there or in another place with no records preserved. If you have not checked the Parishes around Vrå I think you should start with them though.

Klas

2022-03-17, 02:35
Svar #12

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Hi again, Klas!

Yes, this is a different Anders Nilsson (he was b in Mäste, Vrå in 1720 and died in Singsiö, Vrå in 1791 - I also have his information.  His daughter Elin was born in 1762-10-01 in Singsiö. 

There is an Anders Nilsson in Singsiö and another Anders Nilsson in Stråhult.  Both have daughters named Elin.  You can see his family information on the 1788-1792 in Singsiö - this household record shows that he died and has a widow Kirstin.

Vrå (G) AI:1 (1788-1817) Image 28 / Page 41
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v21208?image=28

I've reviewed these records many times.  The Elin Andersdotter born in Stråhult, Vrå on 1745-12-30.   Her father, Anders Nilsson, was born circa 1711, and lived in Stråhult from 1744 until about 1768 when I believe he moved to Torpa in Torpa parish and subsequently died there in 1771.  That was where his daughter and her husband were living.  This has created some confusion as the 1771 inventory after his death, mentions a brother Lars Nilsson in Singsiö, Vrå at the estate inventory at Torpa parish. 

The first and last pages of the inventory are found:

Sunnerbo häradsrätt (G) FII:4 (1767-1771) Image 745 / Page 1171 (AID: v76209.b745.s1171, NAD: SE/VALA/01582) - shows Anders Nilsson died 1771 in Torpa parish.

Sunnerbo häradsrätt (G) FII:4 (1767-1771) Image 747 / Page 1175 (AID: v76209.b747.s1175, NAD: SE/VALA/01582) - mentions brother Lars Nilsson.

So, I believe they are 2 different Anders Nilssons, living in different places in Vrå around the same time, both having a daughter Elin. 

I very much appreciate your help  - I'll take your advice and review each parish surrounding Stråhult, beginning with the closest ones in case I missed anything.   I appreciate your help and the direction you've offered!

Thanks again,

Vicki

2022-03-17, 12:33
Svar #13

Utloggad Klas Wallén

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Hi Vicki!

It is for true a very confusing situation. My idea is that if there are not two Lars Nilsson living in Singsjö in Vrå, it becomes very interesting. Either the family tree I linked you too must be wrong or that Lars Nilsson is the brother of your Anders Nilsson. If they were brothers and the family tree is correct you have found your Anders Nilsson background. I would suggest that you take a look in the "mantalslängder" and try to find out if there were one or two Lars Nilsson in Singsjö. Then, if there is only one Lars Nilsson in Singsjö, it would be good if you could confirm the family tree I linked too. It is confusing but I hope you will be able to find out the true family connections. If I have some more spare time today I will also take a closer look.

Good luck!

Klas

2022-03-17, 13:05
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you, Klas!

Yes, this has been a very confusing family to trace and I continue to re-examine all of my research.  I will also look into it again today to see if I find anything has been misunderstood or is incorrect.  I will be curious to see what you find also.

Thanks again for your ongoing interest!

Vicki

2022-03-17, 13:07
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Utloggad Klas Wallén

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Hi again

I looked thru the mantalslängderna and found out that there were only one Lars Nilsson there from 1761 to 1774. Also the Lars in Singsjö was noted as Nilsson from 1761 to 1764. From then on they are just noted with their Christian names. Still no year without an Anders and Lars in Singsjö from 1761 to 1774 (not all years covered). That means that there must have moved in another Anders while your moved out, or that your Anders did not live in Singsjö at any time. Also the Lars Nilsson living in Singsjö in 1771 must be the one who is the brother of Anders Nilsson in Torpa, if the Estate Inventory is correct. If so there must have moved in another Lars if the first Lars Nilsson isn't the brother of Anders Nilsson in Torpa. It has become even more puzzling I guess. But it is interesting and I like to get things straight so it is fun to investigate and help.
By the way the Anders living in Singsjö in 1774 has three children noted, Nils, Catharina and Ingerd. Lars has the daughter Anna. Perhaps you can find them in the birth records?

If someone has read thru the "dombok" for Sunnerbo Härad and found them there I think it can be solved.

Kronobergs Genealogical Association would perhaps be able to help you. You can ask them if anyone has information from the dombok or if Anders Nilsson and Lars Nilsson in Singsjö are known to them and fully investigated. Here are a couple of links to Kronobergs Genealogiska Förening. I am sure someone there can communicate with you in English. If not I can help you ask them in Swedish.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/867144820004648/?epa=SEARCH_BOX

https://genealogi-kgf.se/kontakta-oss/



Klas

2022-03-17, 16:42
Svar #16

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thanks very much, Klas.

This all started with the names of the parents of my ancestor Kierstin Larsdotter b. 1771 who were listed on her birth record: Lars Persson and Elin Andersdotter.
 
The marriage record in 1763 states their names as Lars Persson (klöckare) from Slättevrå and Elin Andersdotter from Stråhult.

The tax records for Stråhult show that her parents, Anders Nilsson and wife, are living there from before Elin's birth through the mid-1760's.  in 1762 Elin appears in the tax records and she is married the following year to Lars Persson (klöckare).  Anders and Karin and Elin and Lars are all living at Stråhult for the following year or 2 and then they all disappear from Stråhult.

Elin's husband, Lars Persson, died young (age 35) in 1772.  His death record shows that they were living in Torpa, Torpa parish when he died.  The estate inventory in Torpa lists a widow Elin Andersdotter with two young children: Bengta age 3 1/2 years and Kierstin age 1 year.   The 1 year old is my ancestor.     

The thing I'm unsure of is where Anders Nilsson and his wife went when they no longer were living in Stråhult.  By 1763 Anders was old and sickly.  So did Anders and wife go to Torpa with the daughter Elin's family?  I found a couple death records that might indicate they had also moved to Torpa.  There is a 1771 death record at Torpa, Torpa for Anders Nilsson and a 1783 death record for a widow Karin (no surname).  Maybe it is just a coincidence that Anders Nilsson died in Torpa, Torpa parish one year before his son-in-law died in the same place.

From there I found an estate inventory for Anders Nilsson in Torpa parish, which lists a widow Karin Nilsdotter.  No previous records had her surname - her daughters birth records only named her parents as Anders and Karin.  The widow's death record in 1783 only listed her as the widow Karin.

I may never know.  :)

Thanks again for your help and interest!  I enjoy this research very much.

Vicki

2022-03-17, 21:11
Svar #17

Utloggad Lars-Ola Stare

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Hejsan Victoria


In the estate inventory for Anders Nilsson it says that the widow Karin Nilsdotter is living as "inhyses" under her daughter and son in law, so I think it is quite clear it is the correct Anders who dies in Torpa 1771.
[/size]
[/size]At the baptise of the daughter Elnas first child, Per, Malin Persdotter is a witness. She is the third wife of Lars Nilsson in Singsjö.
[/size]
[/size]As a decendant of Lars Nilsson, I had early on him as a son to Nils Eriksson, but have discarded that thought, as I don't have any good sources that links them. I have not found that Lars or his wifes has been witness to any of Nils Erikssons grandchildren.
[/size]
[/size]Regards, Lars-Ola, Halmstad[/size]

2022-03-17, 23:30
Svar #18

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you so much, Lars-Ola. 

I had more difficulty than usual trying to read the estate inventory for Anders Nilsson, mainly due to the handwriting itself. 

Since I couldn't find Anders and wife anywhere else, the next most logical place to search for them was with daughter Elin and her husband in Torpa.  But, I didn't find her name mentioned in the estate inventory.  I felt sure about everything else except his death date since I was not able to read the record.

It occurred to me that maybe there had been an earlier connection in the family to Torpa as I'm not sure why/how Lars Persson and Elin Andersdotter ended up there.  Then I noticed I already had an Anders Nilsson in Gashult, Torpa in my database with a birth date of 1711-10-11 which fits the estimated birth year for him - his father's name is Nils Larsson with wife Ingeborg.  Nils Larsson also had a son Lars Nilsson but he was born in 1720 so doesn't quite match your Lars Nilsson.    Nils Larsson and Ingeborg have 7 children: Jöns b. 1701, Sissla b. 1703, Jöns b. 1708, Anders b. 1711, Kirstin b. 1715, Lars b. 1720 and Karin b. 1725.

Nils Larsson's parents are Lars Jönsson and Karin. His sister is Susanna Larsdotter, married to the soldier Per Simonsson Groberg in Groeryd, Torpa parish.  I may look into this a little more - probably nothing, but the names are very familiar. 

Thanks again for confirming that I had the correct death record and estate inventory for Anders Nilsson - that was very good news and made my day!!

Your help is always appreciated,

Vicki

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