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Författare Ämne: Need help with Annerstad household record  (läst 10952 gånger)

2020-10-23, 21:31
läst 10952 gånger

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Can anyone help with the attached household exam record for 1718-1723?  I believe it is for my ancestor Jöran Jonsson and family, parents of daughter Karin Jöransdotter who was born in 1724 (just after this record ends).  The household record beginning with her birth year is not available. 

I'm trying to figure out whether all the people listed on the left-side are part of that same family or not.  Two of the names are crossed out - maybe they moved somewhere else and were unrelated?  Might the last 4 names be their children?  It looks like the first 2 are designated as sons (Jon and Pehr) but the last 2 names (Christian and Lars) are not designated as such (both boys).

Annerstad (G) AI:1 (1718-1723) Image: 125 Page: 237 
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18248?image=125

This record is confusing to me.  Any help in understanding it would be much appreciated!

Thank you,

Vicki

2020-10-24, 11:21
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Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Hello again Victoria,

The family in Annerstad Norregård consists of

Jöran Jonsson (father)
h. Kirstin (hustru, wife)
S. Johan (son). To the right it says that he has married and moved to Skieckarp (In fact Skäckarp Norregård. 1723 Mar 22 he married Anna Ericsdotter from Annerstad Brogård, who was the sister of Ingierd who is my ancestor....)
p. Gunnil (piga, farm maid). She serves in Skieckarp which is what is written to the right.
10. S. Jon (10 years old son)
S. Pehr (son)

Christian - no notes but there was a son of Jöran Jonsson born 1714 Nov 20
Lars - also a son of Jöran Jonsson born 1718 Jan 31

/Yvonne

2020-10-24, 15:43
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Hi Yvonne!  Thank you for your response - it has clarified so much I didn't understand!  Wow,  also I'm glad that you have found a connection between our families!  Very interesting.   :)

I have also found the children Lars and Christian.   I am having a little problem with the name Jöran as the J's are not written always the same. 

These are the children that I think belong to them:

Christian Jöransson born 20 Nov 1714  (both J's in Jöran Jonsson look same)
Annerstad-G-CI-1-1708-1750-Image-14-Page-23
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30808?image=14

Brita Jöransdotter born 30 Sept 1716 born in Skäckarp - not sure if the father's name is Jöran or not, will you take a look? The J's look different.  
Annerstad (G) CI:1 (1708-1750) Image: 17 Page: 29
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30808?image=17

Lars Jöransson born 31 Jan 1718 Annerstad Norreg. The 2 J's look different.
Annerstad (G) CI:1 (1708-1750) Image: 19 Page: 33
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30808?image=19

Karin Jöransdotter born 15 Feb 1724 in Annerstad (both J's look same)
Annerstad-G-CI-1-1708-1750-Image-27-Page-49
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30808?image=27

Seems like there should be a another child between 1720 and 1724.

I found a 1713 marriage record for Jöran Jonsson and Kirstin Jönsdotter, which gives very little information about them (here we go again with the Jon and Jön) :)  I believe is says (please confirm or correct):

1713 The bachelor Jöran Jonsson from Öjarp married the maiden Kirstin Jönsdotter.

Annerstad-G-CI-1-1708-1750-Image-34-Page-63
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30808?image=34

This marriage record does not indicate that either was married previously - unless I have the wrong marriage record.  So, I will need to go back further to find out who the parents of Johan, Jon and Pehr are and will also look into death records today.

Thanks so much for this information!!  I really appreciate the help.

Vicki


2020-10-24, 15:51
Svar #3

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne,

I just realized that the birth and marriage records available for Annerstad begin with the year 1708 so won't be able to find the birth records for the older sons - I'll look through what household records, death records, etc. that are available to see what I can find.

Any other ideas are welcome!

Thanks again,

Vicki

2020-10-24, 16:26
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Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Hello again,

The names are difficult to read in the Annerstad books. You have mixed up Swen and Jöran in a few places:-)

Britta born in Skäckarp 1716 was daughter of Sven Jonsson. The marriage 1713 was between Sven Jonsson and ...

The name Jöran = Göran (normal spelling today). It is also the same name as Örjan and Georg.
Jon = Jonas
Johan = Joen = Jaen = Jan
Jöns - can be used sometimes for Jon but not so common. What is confusing is that they used the vowelsign above the hard letters a o u å (a small wave above the letters) so that it is easy to mix Jon with Jöns.

Jöran and Kirstin must have married before 1705. I have the following children:
NN Jöransson died in Annerstad Norregård 1708 dec 7 and was 3 years 4 months 8 days old.
Johan Jöransson born approx. 1702 died 1769 i Marsjö Storegård.
Jon Jöransson born 1709 march 4
Pehr Jöransson born 1712 april 13
Christian born 1714 nov 20
Lars born 1718 jan 31
Erik born 1721 nov 6, and
Karin born 1724 feb 15

/Yvonne


2020-10-24, 16:42
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne,

Thanks you so much!  All the information is very helpful.  I thought I may have mixed up the names so I really appreciate
this information.

I will add this to the many other helpful notes I keep next to my computer.   :)  Names have been really tricky for me.  I kept looking at that birth record for Erik that you listed (this is the one that I kept coming across when thinking there must be another child there somewhere between 1720 and 1724....). Just wasn't at all sure. 

Thank you again for your help,

Vicki


2020-10-25, 01:34
Svar #6

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne,

Thanks again for this information.  I was able to find all the records you referenced because I knew I would find them once you told me they were there! 

I know I never would have found the death record for Johan Jöransson in Marsjö Storegård.  The handwriting was very difficult.  Can you tell what the cause of death was for him?   

And, now I realize why I decided not to include Erik as one of the children of Jöran and Kirsten - it was because the birth record for Erik only listed Jöran's name (without his last name).  There are so many Jörans listed for that time period that I wasn't sure - however, I realize now that the birthplace of Annerstad Brogård should have given me a big clue.  :)

Again, I really do appreciate all of your help - it keeps me motivated because I feel I am putting together a viable family history, not just a bunch of stuff I thinks fits.  Maybe I'll even get better at reading/using all the characters in your alphabet!  One can hope!  :)

Vicki



2020-10-25, 12:34
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Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Hello again Victoria,

The death note for Johan says " d. 26 Dec. afled nämndemannen Jan Jöransson uti Marsiö 67 år gl af ålderdomsbräckelighet". I.e. On Dec 26th the juryman Jan Jöransson in Marsiö died 67 years old from weakness of old age.

We have the same alphabet, just 3 letters more...
å Å - sounds like your O, as in the word more
ä Ä - sounds like your ae or ai, as in the words fair, care
ö Ö - sounds like your eu or eo with a French touch or even like ur or ir as in Stirling or Fleur, coeur, murder, church

/Yvonne


2020-10-25, 14:48
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne,

Thank you very much for the translation for Johan Jöransson's death record and also for the helpful pronunciation information!  Now that I'm more familiar with the spellings, I'll work on my pronunciation.  Your examples are good ones. 

Your English is excellent.  Where did you learn to speak English?

Today I realized that I have 2 Johan Jöranssons in my database along with related people so I will have to sort that out before going further.  The good thing is that all the information matches.  :)  Usually my software prompts me to check whether one person is the same as another, for some reason this didn't get caught.  It may be because they were removed from my tree earlier when I couldn't prove a direct connection.  I left the information in my database but detached from my family tree.

Thanks again for your ongoing help!

Vicki

2020-10-25, 21:40
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Hi again,

Ok, I've got it sorted.  :)  So, I'm back in business!

Thanks again - still wonder how you came to speak/write English so well!

Vicki

2020-10-25, 23:09
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Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Hi Victoria,


Thanks - I worked in London a few years in the mid 1980-ies... Maybe that helped:-)


Glad you have sorted out your ancestors in Annerstad now. Which one of their offspring emigrated to the USA?


/Yvonne

2020-10-25, 23:56
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yes, that may have helped!  But, you obviously have kept your skills current.  That is really wonderful.

My grandfather was August Wilhelm Carlsson, b. 9 July 1877 in Marsjö Norrgård, Annerstad parish. 
His father was Carl Johan Pehrsson, b. 20 December 1837 in Perstorp, Annerstad parish.
His mother was Johanna Larsdotter, b. 13 December 1836 in Össjöa, Torpa parrish.

There were 6 children including my grandfather:

  • Carolina Carlsdotter,  b. 1 March 1864 in Perstorp, Annerstad
    Lars Peter, b. 22 Jan 1867 in Marsjo Norrgard, Annerstad
    Johan Alfred, b. 5 Jan 1872 in Marsjo Norrgard, Annerstad
    Salomon Wilhelm, b. 26 May 1875, in Marsjo Norrgard, Annerstad, died same year of whooping cough
    August Wilhelm - my grandfather
    Alma Charlotta, b. 21 April 1880, Marsjo Norrgard, Annerstad

The entire family emigrated to the US in 3 separate groups over a period of about 5 years beginning in about 1884 - my grandfather came with his parents and younger sister, Alma, in 1888 in the last group.  They came to Minnesota to farm.  My g grandmother's sister and brother-in-law had come earlier and sent tickets back to Sweden for them to come.  When the older boys repaid the cost of their tickets, the next group came, etc. 

I find it all very interesting.  It sounds like you also have Annerstad connections. Do you still have connections there?

Vicki
 

2020-10-26, 10:35
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Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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How interesting to learn how they managed to migrate so many, they really helped each other if they could.

And no, I have no connections at all left in Annerstad. My grandmother was born there, but she and all her siblings moved to cities to work and the last one living there was my great grandmother who died there in 1956. Only one half-brother of hers stayed there but his children also moved away, except for one son who stayed and never married.

By the way, have you seen this, you might recognize some of the names:

Svenska gods och gårdar 27:Kronoberg-Västra (1942) Bild 820 / sid 82 (AID: v948975.b820.s82)

/Yvonne

2020-10-26, 12:33
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne,

My grandfather attended business college in Austin and had a grocery store in Albert Lea for a few years but all his children moved to the cities also, away from the farm. 

I'd love to see what you attached, but for some reason I get an error message when I try the link.  It says:

 "The requested URL was not found on this server.

Apache/2.4.25 (Debian) Server at forum.rotter.se Port 443"

Is there some other way for me to access it?

Thanks again for the interesting information!

Vicki

2020-10-26, 12:48
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Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Do you still use Arkiv Digital? If so you can type the picture ID directly up in the left corner to open it when you are logged in: v948975.b820.s82


If not I can take a copy and maybe mail it to you instead.


/Yvonne

2020-10-26, 13:46
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you - that worked!   It is very interesting to see these photos.  I hadn't found them previously but do not recognize any of the names listed.   What I know is that my g grandfather's two surviving brothers Nils Peter Pehrsson and Jacob Pehrsson were still in Marsjö in 1880 when their father died (per the estate inventory) and that Jacob's youngest child was born in Marsjö in 1888.  I would need to do more research to find out what happened to them after that. 
 
Thanks very much for sending this!

Vicki

2020-10-26, 19:24
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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I believe I've found the death record for Jöran Johnson of Annerstad Norrgård - the spelling of Jonsson is different from what I've seen before - looks like Johnson. 

It is the first death record for 1740 dated 12 February.  His age at time of death is 62 years which would seem likely in 1740.  That would put his birth year at 1678 which would tie in with estimated marriage year and the birth of the children.

Annerstad (G) CI:1 (1708-1750) Image: 66 Page: 127
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30808?image=66

Maybe you already have this? 

Thanks!

Vicki

2020-10-26, 20:09
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Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Yes, I have "d 12 Febr: afled Jöran Johnsson i Annersta Ngd och begrofs första söndag i fastan 62 åhr gammal". I e on Febr 12th Jöran Johnsson in Annersta Norrgård died and was buried the first Sunday of Lent 62 years old". That would indicate that he was born around 1678 as you say.

The first Sunday of Lent that year was 24th of February I believe. I also think that the spelling John is something that the local priest used at the time for most men namned Jon, it is really the same name. The spelling John is what we mostly use today, but then it was not so common.

/Yvonne

2020-10-26, 20:29
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you!  I did not find a "John" on your list of similar/interchangeable names and hadn't seen it before.  However, as I am going through the death records I've noticed a few more instances of that spelling.  Since I have nothing (yet) to prove or disprove this information, I appreciate the second opinion prior to adding to my information, although it seemed likely.

Thanks again,

Vicki

2020-10-27, 14:12
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Yvonne,

Yesterday I continued perusing the Annerstad death records (through 1763) in search of a possible death record for Jöran Jonsson’s widow Kirstin ?.  I found the following 2 possibilities:

•   8 January 1748 Widow Kirstin Johnsdotter in Byagård, buried 17 January 1748, age 68 (birth year 1680)
Annerstad (G) CI:1 (1708-1750) Image: 74 Page: 143
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30808?image=74

This is a very good possibility because of the spelling of Johnsdotter.  She would still be young enough to be the mother of her youngest child, Karin, born in 1724.  I also don’t find any indication that she is still alive after 1750.  Her son John Jöransson is listed at Byagård in the 1750 household records (also spelled John vs Jon) – I think it is possible may have lived with his family after the death of her husband. 
Annerstad-G-AI-2-1750-1772-Image-127-Page-237
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18249?image=127

•   16 October(?) 1760 Widow Kirstin Jönsdotter in Brogård, buried 19th, age 90 (birth year 1670)
Annerstad-G-CI-2-1751-1814-Image-180-Page-353
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30809?image=180                                                                               

This is probably not her as she would likely be too old to be the mother of the Karin, born in 1724.
(G) CI:2 (1751-1814) Image: 180 Page: 353
However, in regard to the first death record (1748), I was concerned that since I had previously mistaken the 1713 marriage record of Sven Jonsson and Kirstin Jönsdotter for the marriage record of Jöran
Jonsson and Kirstin ? that this Kirstin Johnsdotter might be the widow of Sven Jonsson and not the widow of Jöran Jonsson.  Therefore I went to the household records for 1750 and found that both Sven and Kirstin were still living at that time. 

Annerstad-G-AI-2-1750-1772-Image-128-Page-239
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18249?image=128

Going further, I checked the 1760-1766 household records for them and found they both died during that timeframe.  Kirstin in 1760/1761 and Sven in 1763.  She died before he did.

Annerstad-G-AI-2-1750-1772-Image-200-Page-383
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18249?image=200d

And also found the death records to back this up:

19 November 1760 wife Kirstin Jönsdotter in Brogård….., age 67 (birth year 1693)
Annerstad-G-CI-2-1751-1814-Image-180-Page-353
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30809?image=180

4 August 1763 widower Sven Jonsson in Annerstad Brogård,,,,age 77  (birth year 1686)
Annerstad-G-CI-2-1751-1814-Image-183-Page-359
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30809?image=183
                                                                                             
The estimated birth years closely align with the birth years listed on the 1750 household record for Sven Jonsson and Kirstin Jönsdotter.  This rules out the possibility of the 1748 death record belonging to that Kirstin Jönsdotter. 

I did not find any other death records for a widow Kirstin that I thought could fit. 

My conclusion is that the 1748 death record listed above could be the right death record for the wife of Jöran Jonsson.   What are your thoughts?   Your insight would be much appreciated. 

Thanks very much,

Vicki

2020-10-27, 15:42
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Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Victoria,


I have not really followed that line before, just noted down what I have seen while chasing "my" line. I agree it seems likely that you have found the correct Kirstin in 1748. To be sure however, I think one needs to follow the siblings families and witnesses at child christenings. Did any of them have a daughter named after Kirstin near that date f ex? It would take some time to go through that in detail.


/Yvonne


2020-10-27, 16:02
Svar #21

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thanks very much.  Yes. I agree with you that I need to do more given that there are no records available to confirm my assumption.  But I was interested in your opinion as to whether you would agree with my conclusion.  The families that I'm currently working on are the most difficult ones.  With every iteration through my tree, I have learned more so I try again to expand my research.  :)

Thanks again!

Vicki

2020-10-28, 14:45
Svar #22

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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I took a quick look at Jon's children and noted that in 1749, 1751 and 1752 he got a daughter Kirstin - all three died early. That I think is a strong indication that you have found the correct death notice for his mother in 1748. Jon seems to have been married twice, first time in Odensjö, then moved back to Annerstad.


/Yvonne

2020-10-28, 16:34
Svar #23

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Furthermore, Jon's younger brother Lars, who married to Wrå, also had a daughter named Kirstin, born 1758. He only had one daughter before that and she was named Märtha after his wife's mother.
/Yvonne

2020-10-28, 18:35
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you so much. 

Yesterday, I finished documenting what I have previously found and have just begun my search for any daughters named Kirstin, born after 1748, into the families of her siblings.  I started with Jon because I knew where he was living, but I had not yet gotten to the point of locating all of his children. I soon realized that I wasn't really sure how to go forward here.

I am struggling with how to logically continue this part of my research.  Do I first locate where all Kirstin's siblings are living by looking through the baptismal witnesses (starting with Kirstin's own children's birth records) and also looking for their marriage records to try to locate them.  Then once I know where they are, try to locate all of their children through the birth records and any household records that are available?  Then, repeat the steps until I've (hopefully) found them all.  Am I missing steps?

I appreciate your help and so any advice or ideas on how you approach your continued research would be really great.  It is slow going for me, but I thoroughly enjoy the work as long as I can move forward, however slowly.  I guess I'm still in the "formulating a plan" phase.  :)

Thanks again for all of your ongoing help,

Vicki



2020-10-28, 19:33
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Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Well I think you need to decide what you are after - how much information on the whole family with their siblings you would like to have, or if you were only trying to get as far back in time as possible on you own line only.


To get further back on Kirstin you would really have to be lucky to find a note where she and her siblings are mentioned perhaps in a court book which also mentions how she is related to them (or her husband). You could of course as you say try to find out if you can locate any of her siblings as witnesses at her childrens baptism. I believe the witnesses at this time are only mentioned with their first name in the birth books which also makes this work very hard.


With all the names here being so similar it is too easy to draw conclusions that are not correct. So either you might have to be content with having come this far back with this family, or start reading court books. Tax books are not of much help when searching for women in those days. My 5 cents...


/Yvonne

2020-10-28, 19:56
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Thanks a lot for your response. 

I will continue, as I always have done, to document all family information I find as it helps me to "prove" my research.  It is not my intent, however, to document everything about everyone I find. 

Where there are no more records available and when I feel I've reached the end of a line, I still want to see what I can piece together with some degree of likelihood, noting that further research is required (in this way keeping my research from being lost).  But this applies only to the end of the line as I will not build on it further until I've proven that piece of information.  That is really all I can do since I know now that it is highly unlikely I will be reading the court records, unfortunately.  They are a gold mine of helpful and interesting information, from what I have seen so far. 

I'll continue to ask questions and will continue to appreciate the help I get from you and others!  You all know so much and I appreciate your sharing your knowledge!

Thanks again,

Vicki

2020-10-28, 22:36
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Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Victoria,
I think I found a wedding confirmation for your Jöran Jonsson in the church's accounts for 1700 while looking for my ancestors. It is terribly difficult to read, but I think it says (somewhere under ... stora bönedagen) "Jöran Jonsson i Andersta Ngd - 16, Cronoleja (hiring the bride's crown) - 8". Thereafter comes next week I support Dom: Trinit.....

You can probably access it via this link:
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0065291_00029#?c=&m=&s=&cv=28&xywh=1722%2C2193%2C3547%2C1754

Reference is:
Annerstads kyrkoarkiv, Räkenskaper för kyrkan. Äldre allmän odelad serie samt huvudräkenskaper., SE/VALA/00015/L I a/1 (1686-1718), bildid: C0065291_00029
/Yvonne

2020-10-29, 00:03
Svar #28

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Wow!  What a find and thank very much for sending it!  You had estimated that he was married before 1705 so that is perfect and also fits in with the birth of their first child, Johan, who was born in 1702 (at least per the 1750 Marsjö, Annerstad household records).

The language used in the marriage confirmation is very interesting.  What it usual to have a confirmation like that?  I would have had no idea what that was even if I found it.  :)

Thanks again,

Vicki

2020-10-29, 10:47
Svar #29

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Victoria,

As regards Jöran's children I have noted
Johan born approx 1702
A son that must have been born approx 1705 as he died 1708 dec 12
Jon born 1709 mar 4
Per born 1712 apr 13 (I have not seen what has happened to him)
Christian born 1714 nov 20 (he has disappeared too)
Lars born 1718 jan 31
Erik born 1721 nov 6 (no whereabouts on him either)
Karin born 1724 feb 15 - which you no doubt know already

Jon married Gunnil Giöransdotter from Torarp 1733 mar 18 in Odensjö
They had Maria born 1733 jul 23 in Odensjö
Göran born 1735 jun 11 in Annerstad
Karin born 1737 dec 14 in Annerstad
Christian born 1739 may 3 in Annerstad

Then Gunnil died there 1741 jan 3 and Jon remarried 1741 jul 12 to Margareta Påfwelsdotter (Paul's daughter)
The had (all born in Annerstad)
Gunnil 1742 jul 9
Anna 1743 aug 31
Karin 1744 aug 3
Christian 1745 aug 10
Britta 1747 dec 14 (missing in birth book as there is a gap, but she appears in household roll)
Kirstin 1749 dec
Kirstin 1751 feb
Kirstin 1752 jul
Johan 1754 mar 26
Esther 1758 jul 20
Samuel 1760 jun 10
Peter 1765 jun

At least 8 of them died young, possibly 10.

As regards the note in the church's accounts it varies a lot how the notes are written. Very often it says "brudegummen NN"... and an amount, (the bride groom). Here it names Göran, but is followed by Cronolega (hiring the bride's crown) indrawn in the column which indicates that it was he who gifte sig.

Keep looking,
Yvonne

2020-10-29, 13:38
Svar #30

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you for this information!  I really appreciate your help!

I found 5 children for Lars Jöransson and Anna Persdotter (married May 26, 1740 Vrå):
Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-7-Page-7
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=7

1) Jöran b. 26 Feb 1743, Bierseryd, Vrå
Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-61-Page-113
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=61

2) Per b. 10 May 1746, Abbeshult, Vrå
Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-66-Page-123
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=66

3) Märtha b. 15 Sep 1753, Abbeshult, Vrå
Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-74-Page-139
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=74

She died age 11 months, 3 weeks of measles?, was buried August 1754.
Vrå (G) C:1 (1701-1823) Image: 185 Page: 357
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=185

4) Märtha b. 24 Jun 1755, Abbeshult, Vrå
Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-77-Page-145   
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=77

There is a note under her name on the birth record: död  Did she die also?

5) Kierstin b.3 Aug 1758, Abbeshult, Vrå
vVrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-82-Page-153b
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=82

Today I will go back and work on Jon's family to see where I went wrong,  You have given me so much to check into - great fun for me today!!  I thank you again for it.

Per, Christian and Erik.  Interesting that you have not found anything them.  I'll look also to see if I can find any sign of them, but am guessing if you can't find them, neither will I! :)

One thing that really strikes me is the number of children who died young.  It must have been heartbreaking. 

Thanks again for your ongoing help.  It is all very interesting,

Vicki

2020-10-29, 21:53
Svar #31

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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A little more just to keep you busy: When Lars died 1762 there were only 3 children still alive. I have:

Jöran 1743 feb 26 Bjerseryd Vrå
Per 1746 may 10 Abbeshult Vrå, died 1752 june
Anders 1749 jun 13
Märtha 1753 sept 15, died 1754 aug
Märtha 1755 june, died 1755 oct
Kierstin 1758 aug 3, died 1758 dec
Stillborn daughter 1760 may
Magnus 1761 oct 18, died 1761 dec
Lars 1763 jul 2 (born after his father died). This Lars married Malin Ericsdotter in Annerstad Brogård, daughter of Erick Håkansson and Estred Persdotter. Erick was a grandchild of my ancestor Eric Jöransson there, and Estred was a daughter of my other ancestor Per Svensson and Gunnil Erlandsdotter in Öjarp in Annerstad. Lars died in Hästhult in Vrå 1835.

Lars senior had quite a fortune at his death, you can find his inventory here:

Sunnerbo häradsrätt (G) FII:2 1759-64 bild 245/sid 385

/Yvonne


2020-10-29, 22:33
Svar #32

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you so much for this!

I still have 4 more of Jon's childrens' birth records to find and then I want to go through all the death records after that.  I couldn't find the birth records for the 3 Kirstins but was able to find all the death records for them.  I also had to get the children with the correct mothers. :)  Påfwelsdotter! I don't think I would have figured that one out!

The 1784-1805 Byagård, Annerstad household record lists only a widow Margareta (Jon's widow?) so it looks like Jon must have died before 1784 - I'll check that out.

Looks like I've got more to do with Lars too!

This is great!! I can't thank you enough! I hope, that once I've gone through all of this information, that the estate inventory will really prove all these relationships that have been established.

I can't thank you enough!
 
Vicki


2020-10-29, 23:15
Svar #33

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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I think Jon died 1773 - although the death notice gives him the wrong age. I can't find anyone else that fits in. His widow died 1804.


Keep up the good work!  :)


/Yvonne

2020-10-29, 23:21
Svar #34

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you for this information!  I'll keep working away....

Vicki

2020-11-03, 14:23
Svar #35

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne,

As I was going through the information you gave me, I made the following notes/questions:

1.   Just something I noticed that can mislead a researcher: the wrong Christian is listed in the 1750 household records in Annerstad.  The Christian born in 1739 (child of first wife) died in 9 Aug 1742 at age 3 yrs, 3 mos, 6 days.  I think it is Christian born 1745 to second wife who should be listed. 
2.     I only found death records for 8 children - who do you think are the other 2 chidren who died young?
            Christian died Aug 1742
            Gunnil died Oct 1742
            Anna died Sept 1743
            Karin died Nov 1744
            Kirstin died Feb 1750
            Kirstin died May 1751
            Kirstin died Aug 1752
            Johan died Aug 1754
3.   Observation:  If I read the cause of death correctly,the cause of death for so many young children is apparently recorded as unknown.
4.   A nagging question about Erik Jöransson’s birth place: the preceding children (Christian and Lars) and the child born immediately after him (Karin) were all born at Annerstad Norrgåd but Erik was born at Annerstad Brogård – any insight on that?  Is a birth recorded where a child was actually born or recorded where the parents lived?
5.   So far, no evidence of Pehr, Christian or Erik in the death records in Annerstad. I also checked the marriage records between 1732-1750 in Annerstad and surrounding parishes (Torpa, Angelstad, Odensjö, Vrå and Kånna) but found none.
6.   Jöran Jonsson’s son Johan (his eldest child) also had children named Erik b. 1731 and Christian b. 1743/d. 1744. I wondered, since Johan had a son named Jöran b. 1740 the same year as his father died (no doubt named for his father) that maybe Erik and Christian were named after his brothers Erik and Christian who might have died around those years (but could find no evidence of that).  Erik might also have been named after his mother’s father – did he die around then (I don’t know her father’s patronymic name or where he was from).  One other thing, it seems strange that the first son would be named after his mother’s father (Erik) rather than the father’s father (Jöran) unless her father or his brother had died.
7.   I found the a death record for Lars Larsson in Hästhult dated 22 Jan 1831 (age 68) and the widow Malin Ericsdotter's death record in Hästhult dated 2 Mar 1835 (age 76).
8.   Will you confirm my understanding of Lars Larsson’s wife Malin Ericsdotter’s parentage in Annerstad Brogård to ensure that I document this correctly?  My understanding is that:
    Malin’s mother is Estred Persdotter.  Estred Persdotter’s parents are Per Svensson and Gunnil Erlandsdotter in Öjarp, Annerstad.
    Malin’s father is Erick Håkansson, the son of Håkan Ericsson whose father is Eric Jöransson from Annerstad Brogård, thus making Eric Jöransson the grandfather of Erick Håkansson from Annerstad Brogård)?  Since so many names and places are the same, can you clarify the birth years for Håkan Ericsson and Eric Jöransson in order to avoid the possibility of duplicating any names in my tree?

Once I have a solid understanding of and have documented the information you have given me, I will look at the estate inventory (which I purposely have saved for last!)  Such fun!  As always I appreciate your insight and ongoing help!

Thanks again,

Vicki

2020-11-03, 16:08
Svar #36

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Vicki,

1. Agree, I noted the same thing.
2. I have noted Samuel 1760 jun 10-jul 23, but had not found the note on the first Christian which I just assumed died earlier. I would think that the first Karin also died young.
3. Yes, but you need to bear in mind that the priest was not a doctor, and not even doctors knew all at the time nor were they present when all died.
4. It is noted Brogård, but it is not impossible that the priest who made the note remembered wrong farm in the village, the names are very similar in the different farms. Not possible for us to say today I think.
5. Same here, I have not found anything on them. They might have died or moved to other parishes and remained there. An estate inventory would have helped had there been any.
6. Johan's wife Anna's parents were Eric Jöransson who died 1715 apr 30 in Brogård, and Kirstin Håkansdotter who died 1729 apr 30 there too. She was from Norrgården and also had brothers named Jöran and Daniel. Johan's first son came after 8 years of marriage, and as Johan's father was still alive it would normally be the name of his grand father Jon that was used. Maybe it is a combination of Anna's father who in fact was dead, and Johan's brother(s) that they used the name Eric.
7. Correct.
8. Correct. Håkan Ericsson, brother of Johan Jöransson's wife Anna, died 1738 jan 28 in Annerstad Brogård 40 years old so he must have been born around 1698, and his and Anna's father Eric Jöransson died in Annerstad Brogård 1715 apr 30 61 years old, thus born around 1656.

/Yvonne

2020-11-03, 16:36
Svar #37

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you so much! 

I will finish documenting the additional information and start on the estate inventory!

Your help is very much appreciated,

Vicki

2020-11-03, 21:49
Svar #38

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Yvonne,

On the attached 30 Apr 1729 death record for Kirstin Håkansdotter (died age 63) I think it says that she and her son Jöran Ericksson (died 37 yrs), were buried on the same day.  His death record is dated 28 Apr 1729 and is right above her death record.  Before I add his name, will you confirm that I am reading this correctly?

Thanks very much!

Vicki


2020-11-03, 22:04
Svar #39

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Yvonne,

Please disregard - that was a stupid question!  I see that you listed Anna Ericsdotter as having brothers Jöran and Daniel (although it does look like he was buried same day as his mother - correct me if I'm wrong on that).

Thanks!

Vicki

2020-11-03, 22:16
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Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Vicki,


You read the note correctly, Kirstin Håkansdotter and her son Jöran were buried at the same time (Dom: Cantate, May 4). However, it was Kirstin Håkansdotter who had brothers Jöran and Daniel Håkansson. Kirstin's daughter Anna Eriksdotter had siblings Ingierd, Jöran, Karin and Håkan Eriksson/Dotter :-)


/Yvonne

2020-11-03, 22:21
Svar #41

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you SO MUCH for that clarification!!  So Anna Ericsdotter also had a brother name Jöran (the one who was buried same time as their mother, Kirstin Håkansdotter)  But, the Jöran and Daniel you wrote of, were the brothers of Kirstin Håkansdotter.

I think I have it right, now!

Thanks again,

Vicki   

2020-11-04, 17:06
Svar #42

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne,

I've been working on the estate inventory for Lars Jöransson taken on 8 November 1762 after his death in Abbeshult and Vrå parish.  It is quite confusing.  Was there another inventory taken in July 1763?  The names are familiar.  The widow Anna Perdotter is mentioned several times - was she represented at the inventory by her 21 year old son, Jöran Larsson?

I am not sure what the role of Samuel Persson was - did he take the inventory?

I think that the 14 year old son Lars Larsson was represented by his uncle, his father's brother Johan Jöransson in Marsjö.

Jon Jöransson (another uncle (father's brother) in Annerstad  Byagard is mentioned - did he also represent the son Lars Larsson  and/or the widow Anna Persdotter in some way?

In July 1763 it looks like the danneman Sven Johansson in Bjerseryd represented the son Joran Larsson.

As you mentioned this is quite an extensive inventory.  As usual i have trouble with the handwriting, only recognizing some of the words.

Can you tell me if I have the gist of it?  The relationships match what I have documented.  I probably don't need every detail.   :)

Thanks  again for your help,

Vicki

2020-11-04, 18:27
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Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Hello again Vicki,

Quite an interesting and detailed inventory don't you think?

The inventory was made on 8th of Nov 1762, but it was only legally registered at the Sunnerbo court on Oct 25th 1763. Present in Abbeshult in Wrå parish were Anna Pärsdotter, Lars' wife, his oldest son Jöran Larsson in Abbeshult, now 21 years of age and therefore probably of age to be his own guardian, but on his behalf anyway the inn keeper Samuel Pärsson in Skeen; the younger son Anders Larsson in his 14th year, with his guardians and 2 uncles (father's brothers) according the widow, i.e. the dannemannen wälförståndige (well established sensible...) Johan Jöransson in Marsiö, and Jon Jöransson in Annerstad Byagård; thereafter the widow Anna Pärsdotter mentioned that she was not quite sure, but believed she was pregnant which proved to be correct when she delivered her youngest son Lars Larsson in 1763 on July 2nd, whose guardian was honnest and reliable danneman Swen Johansson in Bierseryd. The inventory was listed by the widow and the eldest son.

On the last page you can see the roles they played - to the left the names of those who carried out the inventory, to the right the family members and their guardians.

To the left:
Inventory and division made on request by Hans M: Östbergh, priest in Wrå
Pär Månsson in Bierseryd, evaluation
Witnesses:
Nils Jöransson in Ljunghult, member of local court
Nils Pärsson in Singshult
Nils Nilsson in Annerstad, the deceased man's brother in law.

To the right:
Anna Pärsdotter in Abbeshult, Mother and Widow
Jöran Larsson, eldest son
Samuel Persson in Skien, guardian for the eldest son at the inventory
Johan Jöransson in Marsiö, local court member
Jon Jöransson in Andersta, guardian for the younger son
Suän Johansson in Biärsery, guardian for the youngest son, Lars Larsson.

I would think that they probably made the listing on said date, but waited with the completion and registration of the document until they were sure that Anna was having another child and a guardian could be named for him, thus the late registration date.


/Yvonne

2020-11-04, 18:56
Svar #44

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Wow, that is so interesting!   Unlike any I've seen before, so not surprising that I was struggling   :)

Thank you so much,

Vicki

2020-11-05, 22:11
Svar #45

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Hi again Yvonne,

Yvonne,

Since you know a lot about Annerstad, particularly Brogård and Marsjö, I wonder if you would take a look at this person (Kierstin Pehrsdotter) and see if anything sounds familiar to you as possibly being connected to your ancestry.  😊 This is what I know about her:

Kierstin Pehrsdotter
b. 7 Dec 1731 Brogård, Annerstad  (Annerstad-G-CI-1-1708-1750-Image-83-Page-161)  (https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30808?image=83)
m. Per Larsson 2 Jul 1754 Marsjö, Annerstad (Annerstad (G) CI:2 (1751-1814) Image: 151 Page: 295) (https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30809?image=151)
d. May 1789 Marsjö, Annerstad, widow,58 years old  (Annerstad-G-CI-2-1751-1814-Image-206-Page-405) (https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30809?image=206)

Her birth record lists her father’s name as Pehr Jönsson – the only thing I can find on a possible family for her is a 1718-1723 household record in Norrgård, Annerstad, but I have no idea if that would be the correct family for her since she wasn’t born until 1731.  (Annerstad-G-AI-1-1718-1723-Image-124-Page-235) (https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18248?image=124)

I would like to go back further on her line if possible. 

Related background information in case it helps or anything sounds familiar to you
:
Per Larsson (her husband)
b. 26 Jan 1725 Miäla, Torpa (Torpa-G-C-1-1690-1747-Image-81-Page-157) (https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30192?image=81)
d. 9 Apr 1789 Marsjö,  Annerstad  (Annerstad-G-CI-2-1751-1814-Image-206-Page-405) (https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30809?image=206)

Kierstin Pehrsdotter and Per Larsson are listed in the tax records at Marsjö Storgård, Annerstad from 1755-1768.

Kierstin Pehrsdotter and Per Larsson are listed in the household records at Marsjö Storgård from 1760-1788.

There is an estate inventory (which I had much help with on this forum back in Mid-March): (Sunnerbo-häradsrätt-G-FII-10-1790-1791-Image-216-Page-337)
The estate inventory lists a brother to Per Larsson:  Anders Larsson b. 30 Jul 1731 Miäla, Torpa  (Torpa-G-C-1-1690-1747-Image-87-Page-169)  (https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30192?image=87)

This family has been another really tough one to break through on earlier than 1725.  Maybe that is all the further back I can go for now.

If nothing stands out to you on this – it’s absolutely fine – but any help is always greatly appreciated! 

Thanks again for all the help you’ve given me! 

Vicki

2020-11-06, 00:00
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Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Hi again,


I have only noted their names, but the household book I looked in earlier gave Kierstin's birth year as 1728. There are many errors with the years there, and I now noted also the year 1731 was mentioned later. The birth year for Per varies too. There seem to be a widow Brita staying with the family. She dies in 1772 feb 9 78 years old and is named Brita Bengtsdotter. Their first sons were baptized Per and Bengt.


The birth note 1731 names a Per Jönsson and Brita Nilsdotter. They do not seem to appear any more - and no Jöns or Nils among Per's and Kierstin's children. The page you linked to list Pehr Johnsson in Annerstad Norregård, married to a Brita. I have only seen a daughter Maria there born 1711, no later children (maybe earlier before 1708 though).


This will need some more looking into, so that will have to be tomorrow or even later I think, time to get some sleep here:-)


/Yvonne

2020-11-06, 00:13
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Thanks very much!

I always appreciate any help or direction you can give.  :)

Vicki

2020-11-06, 11:39
Svar #48

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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No luck in pursuing this couple I'm afraid. There are too many gaps, and not much help with witnesses. Kirstin seems to have popped up as a maid in Marsjö Storegård 1754. Witnesses at their childrens birth seem to be neighbours mostly, maybe because none of them were from there? I do not know what happened to Per's siblings or parents?


I think the name Bengt is important, they had 2 Bengt. Thus Brita Bengtsdotter could be Kerstin's mother. The only couple within 1728-1731 that had a Kirstin was a couple in Söra or Stora Tannåker in Tannåker parish. Per Arvidsson, who must have been married earlier to a Elin Persdotter, had a Kierstin in sept 1731 (and one before in 1725) and was married to a Brita Bengtsdotter before 1725. Per was much older in that case, he died already 1744 and was 83 years old then. I have not followed them or that Kierstin's siblings any longer, I left something fun for you... Tannåker books are just as bad as those of Annerstad unfortunately.


/Yvonne

2020-11-06, 13:06
Svar #49

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Thank you so much.  I really tried on this one.

You got further than I did so that helps.  I'll see what I can find!

Thanks again for all of your help,

Vicki

2020-11-06, 17:48
Svar #50

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Hello again,

I think we are on the right track:

Per Arvidsson d 1744 Tannåker, Tannåker
m 1 Elin Persdotter 1686, children:
- Ingeborg 16890412 Tanåker died young
- Pär 1692 Tannåker died young
- Pehr 1695 Söre Tannåker died 29 years old
m 2 Britta Bängtsdott (if this is correct she was b ca 1696, died 1772 78 years old in Marsjö Annerstad. Plenty of Bengt in Ferlöf in Tannåker). Children:
- Kierstin 17250719 Söre Tanåcker, Tannåker - died young
- Per 17261101 Tanåcker - I believe this is the Per Persson, who married Anna Månsdotter and lived in Marsjö Norrgård, Annerstad, died 1765 39 years old. Kierstin was a witness at the baptism of his son Per 1755.
- Elin 1730101 Stora Tannåker - died young
- Kierstin 17310905 Stora Tanåcker, Tannåker - I think your Kierstin.

When Per died his son's guardians were Peter Stockenberg - and Per Larsson in Marsjö..... :-)
See Sunnerbo häradsrätt (G) FII:3 (1765-1766) Bild 560 / sid 923 (AID: v76208.b560.s923, NAD: SE/VALA/01582)
Her father from Vittaryd Måns Boson, was present on her behalf.

Anna Månsdotter remarried Sven Enewaldsson 1768.

What do you think?

/Yvonne

2020-11-06, 18:22
Svar #51

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yes, I think you are correct!  Thank you so much for this!  I have started looking at Tanåcker but am totally unfamiliar with this parish.  I found it in Jönköping, so am currently looking for information there, starting with the information you gave me earlier. 
 
How did you find the connection to Tanåcker in the first place?  I obviously didn't have the correct birth record for Kiersten (and I did wonder about it).  I saw the 2 different birth years on the household records too, but decided it must be 1731 when I found her death record in 1789, age 58.  The Kiersten you found was also born in 1731, so that's good!  :) 

It's slow going for me at best!  But even slower when I am unfamiliar.... but, never fear, I will keep at it!

Thank you again!

Vicki

2020-11-06, 21:35
Svar #52

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Hi again,

It is amazing how quickly you are able to piece together relationships that tie these families together!  Wow, this is so interesting and I would never have figured it out.  I've tried numerous times to take a fresh look at this family but always ended up at a dead end. 

Thanks so much!

Vicki


2020-11-06, 22:01
Svar #53

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Hi again,

I was confused thinking Tannåcker was in Jönköping when I couldn't find it on the Kronoberg map I have.  :-[  Oh, well, a minor setback.

It is amazing how quickly you are able to piece together relationships that tie these families together!  I love that you found that Kierstin's husband Per Larsson was a guardian for one of her brother Per Persson's sons! 

This is so interesting - I would never have figured it out (even after numerous attempts at taking a fresh look - every time I ended up at a dead end again). 

There is so much information here, it will take while to find it all and document it.  Great fun.  :)

Thanks so much for your help with this! 

Vicki

2020-11-06, 22:03
Svar #54

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Ok, I'm having some technical difficulties.  :)  I apologize!   I had to start over....hence the 2 posts.

Sorry about that!

Vicki

2020-11-06, 22:18
Svar #55

Utloggad Lars-Ola Stare

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Hejsan
I have missed this thread, but today I saw it.


There is a note in the court records from 1740 related to Jöran Jonsson that I think is of interest.
It mentions his widow Kirstin Jonsdotter and their 6 living children.


Regards,
Lars-Ola





No 76
Upwistes hos Tingzrätten ett efter förordnande
af wederbörande jemte Nämndemannen
Måns Tufwedsson i Esphult uprättadt arf
skiftes Instrument dn 9de hujus efter danne
mannen Jöran Jönsson i Anderstad
Norregd emillan theß qwarlemnade
Enkia hustru Kierstin Jonsdotter samt 6 barn
5 Söner och en dotter, neml. Johan
Jöransson i Marsiö, Jon Jöransson i
Anderstad, Peter och Christian Anströmer
begge til tienst hos Öfwersten Wälborne
Hr Per Silfwersparre, Lars Jöransson i
Biärseryd och Kierstin Jöransdotter som
är med drengen Nils Nilsson fäst
och trolofwad; hwilcket förthenskul behöri
gen påskrifwit wardt.
Göta Hovrätt - Advokatfiskalen Jönköpings län EVIIAABA:1070 (1740-1740) Bild 4840 (AID:
v323952.b4840

2020-11-06, 22:28
Svar #56

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Tannåker parish and a few more used to belong to Jönköping county but was handed over to Kronobergs county in 1970, so you should be able to see it at least in a modern map over Kronoberg. If not - Google maps is OK - see

Tannåker kyrka

It only says Kyrka (church) but it is a very pretty little church and quite old, one of my favorites. If you drop the little yellow man in the right lower corner on the main road close to the church where the road is blue, you can actually see it even if it is som distance. :-)

If you start in Marsjö you just go almost straight to the north about 20 km.

/Yvonne

2020-11-07, 00:00
Svar #57

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Lars-Ola and Yvonne,

Lars-Ola,

Thank you for this great information!  I think that you have helped us solve the mystery surrounding what happened to two of the "missing" sons of Jöran Jonsson and Kiersin Johnsdotter!  It seems that the other "missing" son must have died(?) as I don't see his name included.

Yvonne,
Did you see what Lars-Ola sent?  Just what we needed!  Will you help translate it?  I'm afraid the translator didn't work very well on this. 

Thank you for sending that map link!  I can easily see why it would be one of your favorites!  The church is surrounded by a peaceful landscape, very beautiful.  Do I see old tombstones?  How old is the church? 

Thank you to both of you!  You're so kind!

Vicki

2020-11-07, 11:06
Svar #58

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Hello again Vicki and Lars-Ola,

That was a great help to clear out almost all children. I believe the person taking the notes have mixed Karin with Kierstin though, and now we only need to localize the two brothers who call themselves Anströmer.

The text is approximately as follows:

No. 76 was presented to the local court a document, legalized by concerned and the local court man Måns Tufwedsson in Esphult, regulating the distribution of the estate, dated the 9th of this month after dannemannen Jöran Jönsson in Anderstad Norregd between his widow Kierstin Jonsdotter and 6 children, 5 sons and one daughter, i.e. Johan Jöransson in Marsiö, Jon Jöransson in Anderstad, Peter and Christian Antrömer both serving the colonel well bread Mr Per Silfwersparre, Lars Jöransson in Bjärseryd and Kierstin Jöransdotter who is engaged and betrothed to Nils Nilsson. The document was therefore legally signed.

I also think I know where Britta Bengtsdotter came from.

A couple of witnesses to childbirths were maids Elin and Sara in Romborna - and before Britta's marriage she seems to appear there (in A:I) in Romborna Norregård with her family. There is a note that she has married and gone to ... something very difficult to read but I THINK it says Tannåker... :-)

The present Tannåker church was built in the 18th century, with some older things still preserved. There is a good church site where you can search the church you want to know more about (kept by private persons), f ex Tannåker:

https://www.kyrkokartan.se/055927/Tann%C3%A5kers_kyrka


/Yvonne

2020-11-07, 15:10
Svar #59

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you for all of this information!

Regarding the translation, I also noticed the Kierstin/Karin mixup but we know that Karin was the only daughter and that she married Nils Nilsson. The brothers Pehr (now called Peter) and Christian Jöransson are now going by the surname Anströmer, serving in the military under the same colonel?  It doesn't say where they are located though. I will check the records again for their new name.  I didn't find anything in the Centrala Soldatregistret for the name Anströmer. There is a Per SILFVERSPARRE but I have no idea if this could be the same person mentioned or not:

Antagen: 1708
Avsked: 1728
Aktnummer: SR-BEFÄLET-1708
Regemente: Södermanlands regemente
Rote: Hade Boställe
Kompani: -
Socken: EJ FASTSTÄLLT
Torpnummer: SR-BEFÄLET

This is fascinating and I really appreciate that Lars-Ola posted it!

It is equally exciting that you have been able to find more information on Britta Bengtsdotter!  I will check it out!!  Thanks so much for this!

The Tannåker church is very beautiful inside, isn't it?  Even with the updates they've preserved its history.  Thank you for sending the link!

Thanks again for the ongoing help,

Vicki

2020-11-07, 17:13
Svar #60

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Per Silversparre was not a common soldier, he was of noble family. I think I might have found him - born 1678, died 1747, and after a successful military carreer he ended up as a colonel 1739 in Jönköping's Regiment.


/Yvonne

2020-11-07, 20:43
Svar #61

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you!

So if I can figure out exactly where he was, that's where I should be able to find Peter and Christian, is that correct?

I'll see what I can find.  :) 

Thank you so much - you are keeping me busy!  That's great!

Vicki




2020-11-08, 00:59
Svar #62

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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In a listing of regemental commanders for the Kungl. Jönköping regemente I found a listing for: 1739–1747: P Silfversparre (I think this may be the one you are referring to although I am assuming the P stands for Per.  I don't really know if 1747 is the year of death or the last year he was a commanding officer).  There was no more information given.

There is Per Silfversparre who died in 1750 in Nåshult, Jönköping but doubt that is the same person as he was a General Major.  It looks like there were a lot military Silfversparres.

As far as I can tell the Jönköpings regemente was an infantry regiment headquartered in Jönköping county (but I don't know which parish) and I am far from an expert in this area of research.

Since my purpose is to find Christian and Peter Anströmer's whereabouts in 1740, at the time of the distribution of Jöran Jonsson's estate, I was thinking that if I could find where Per Silfversparre was, I might find them also.  My search for the name Anströme has turned up nothing so far but there seem to be quite a few Silfversparres.   Maybe I should be looking at military records?  Well, that's for tomorrow.  I'd also like to get back to Britta Bengtsdotter, also a very interesting discovery!  :)

Thanks again for all your help! 

Vicki

2020-11-08, 10:26
Svar #63

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Per Silversparre became a colonel 1739, and I believe died in 1747. He is listed in the muster roll from 1739:

Generalmönsterrullor - Jönköpings regemente (F) 371 (1739) Bild 6 / sid 2 (AID: v50308.b6.s2, NAD: SE/KrA/0023)

Pehr/Peter and Christian might be listed somewhere in there or the following book. They could be named Jöransson or possibly Anström/er. As all parishes in Jönköping county are represented by the soldiers and they are not listed by parish you probably need to look through the whole book and next, and if you find them it would be important to note the name of the place. They should be noted there perhaps in a soldiers cottage.

/Yvonne


2020-11-08, 14:51
Svar #64

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you so much for this information and for giving me a place to start looking!  I really appreciate it.

Once I have documented what I have learned so far for Britta Bengtsdotter, I will take my time and go through these books!

Again, thank you so much,

Vicki

2020-11-09, 14:52
Svar #65

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Attached is the marriage record for Per Arvidsson and Britta Bengtsdotter.   I believe it says:

On 16 Jan 1723 were married Per Arvidsson i Störe Tannåker and Miss Britte Bengtsdotter from Annerstad parish ? in Tannåker. 

Not sure what is written in the ?.  One question about this marriage - I was expecting Per Arvidsson to be designated as a widower but I don't see that.  Am I missing something?  Is it sometimes left off the record?

Thanks for any help with this!

Vicki

2020-11-09, 15:09
Svar #66

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Stora (Big) Tannåker, Britta, boendes = living in..

Not all priests were exact in details, so maybe he just wrote "Per Arfwidsson i Stora Tanåcker".. as everyone there already knew he was a widower? I have not found any other Per Arvidsson there then.

/Yvonne

2020-11-09, 15:22
Svar #67

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you, Yvonne! 

You are no doubt correct, just want to make sure everything I have is as clear as possible! 

I'll continue on...  :)

Your insight is always appreciated,

Vicki

2020-11-09, 22:50
Svar #68

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne,

Will you verify whether this is the Romborna Norregård household record you are referring to for Brita Bengtsdotter's family?  As you indicated, it is a bit difficult to read - it shows Bengt and his wife Marta(?) (and other children in the family?)- I can't tell if the crossed out name is Bengta or Brita nor can I read the note.  (not a surprise) :) 

Annerstad-G-AI-1-1718-1723-Image-23-Page-33
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18248?image=23

I'm getting near the end of the information you've given me on this family although there are a couple death records for children who died young that I haven't been able find yet - I'll circle back and look again. 

I want you to know how much I appreciate all you're doing to help me.  It would have been impossible for me to find all this on my own.  It is so very interesting (and I know I ask a lot of dumb questions and still spell alot of things wrong). 

So, thanks again for your ongoing help,

Vicki

2020-11-10, 12:52
Svar #69

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Hello again Vicki,

There are no dumb questions, you are doing very well especially considering you do not speak Swedish:-) Many Swedes have problem reading this old handwriting too.

I have had a quick look at this family, which I think is the correct one - I read the note on Britta that she has married to Tannåker, which fits the date for the marriage note you found. Also, the siblings are witnesses to each other's childrens baptism a few times. So, I think you have some more events to check up:

I believe this is the picture:
Bengt Larsson b 1665 ca, d 1751 oct 31 Romborna Norregård Annerstad
m 1 Kirstin (most likely, she might be from Angelstad?) b 1677 ca d 1719 mar 30 Romborna Norregård Annerstad
- Per b 1697 nov Ularp in Angelstad. He seems to have married somewhere almost at the same time as Britta, possibly Tannåker, but he may be the Per Bengtsson who takes over after his father in Annerstad later? Have not checked that up.
- Britta (YOUR BRITTA) b 1700 march Ularp Angelstad (she names two daughters Kirstin)
- Sven b 1703 nov same place - possibly died young?
- Elin b 1705 jan (her name not mentioned in the birth book, but it seems to be her) same place. She probably married Johan Enewaldsson from Fårtorp 1724. They got a couple of children in Annerstad before they seem to have moved to Västra Karup in Kristianstad county where he became a soldier on horse?
- Sara b 1707 jul Ularp Angelstad. Maybe the Sara who married Jöns Nilsson from Tannåker 1734? Not checked up yet.
- Maria - not found in birth book, but she is mentioned in the household book in Annerstad. Could be the Maria who married Jöns Jonsson from Marsjö 1736 but not checked that.
- Lars b 1709 dec Ularp Angelstad. I THINK this is the Lars who took the name Lundman and became bell ringer and organ player in Angelstad. If so he married 1741 in Angelstad Kierstin Jeansdotter from Tannåker.
- Anders b 1716 aug Romborna Norregård Annerstad died same year there
- Abraham b 1718 sept Romborna Norregård died there 1719 may
m 2 Märta Andersdotter 1720 aug 5 in Annerstad (b 1673 about, d 1741 apr 14 Romborna Norregård Annerstad)
- no children she seems to be a widow from Angelstad

Keep up the good work!
/Yvonne

2020-11-10, 13:39
Svar #70

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne,

Thank you SO much for this additional information!  More to dig into!  How wonderful!  I also appreciate your words of encouragement.  I enjoy this work immensely, as mentioned before, but it is a learning process and I sometimes get a bit ahead of myself.  :) 

I'll continue on with my research....    ;D

Again, thanks so much for your ongoing help,

Vicki

2020-11-11, 17:01
Svar #71

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne,

Can you tell me if the attached 1784 death record is for the bell ringer and organ player in Angelstad? 

Angelstad-G-CI-2-1747-1809-Image-147-Page-285
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30822?image=147

(I have not been able to connect the names Lars Lundman and Lars Bengtsson)

Thanks for your help!

Vicki

2020-11-11, 19:13
Svar #72

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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I should have added that I found a 1741 marriage record for Lars and tax records for at least the years 1744-1777 but in all cases he was listed as Lars Lundman (or Lungman). I also found his widow's death record in Angelstad in 1785.  If this is his death record, then I don't think  Lars Bengtsson and Lars Lundman are the same man.  Lars Bengtsson was born 1709 and this Lars, based on that death record, would have been born ca 1714, although it is still possible I guess.

Thanks,

Vicki

2020-11-11, 20:12
Svar #73

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Hello again Vicki,

Age at death might not always be so exact, but of course you can be right there. I based my assumption that he might be the correct Lars on the fact that a wife Maria in Marsjö in Annerstad (his supposed sister) was a witness at the baptism of his daughter Ingeborg in 1751, and Lars Lundman's wife in Angelstad was a witness at the baptism o Maria's in Marsjö son Abraham in 1743. They had a brother Abraham that died young. I suppose it might be possible to find some of the estate valuations at the siblings' deaths where a guardian could be named Lars something? Otherwise you might have to keep his whereabouts in your notes for the time being.

/Yvonne

2020-11-11, 20:50
Svar #74

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Hi again,

Thank you for your thoughts on this.  I have kept all the documentation I've researched so far in case I find something further that will prove it.  It seems that he has gone by the name Lundman forever but still seems like there is a connection there.  A Rebecka is listed on the 1765, 1766 and 1768 records - specifically as a daughter in 1768.

These are the 3 tax records listing his daughter Rebecka:

1765
Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-72-1765-Image-3530-Page-347
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840196?image=3530&page=344

1766
Mantalsläer-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-73-1766-Image-1310-Page-565
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840197?image=1310&page=558

1768
Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-75-1768-Image-2720-Page-266
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840199?image=2720&page=263

I also tried to go back to find a birth record for Rebecca around 1743 - 1748 to see how here parents are listed , again those birth records are really hard to read so I set it aside. 

Good point about possible estate inventories that may shed more light - once I have all the people in place, I'll see what I can find. :)

Thanks again!

Vicki


2020-11-11, 21:03
Svar #75

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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2020-11-11, 21:41
Svar #76

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you for this!  Alas, father's name is still Lars Lundman and I don't see any other connections. 

So, I'll what else turns up.  :)

Thanks again,

Vicki

2020-11-12, 16:06
Svar #77

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Hi Yvonne,

Today I'm reviewing all the information you sent and that I've been working on :) to make sure I haven't missed anything and that I've noted all the information within my software. 

I want to thank you again for all of your ongoing help!  You have given me so much information that I would never have found on my own.

You may have noticed that I put a separate inquiry on Peter Anström out for military help with the 1739-1742 Jönköping regemente muster rolls.  After going through most of the link you sent, I was lost and not coming up with anything and unsure I was even still on the right track. The googled information didn't seem to pan out either and  I had checked the soldier register previously also and found nothing.  So, maybe someone can help me with this piece. 

You've done so much!  I thought it would be nice not put more on your todo list!!

Thank you again, I'm sure I'll have more questions along the way!

Vicki

2020-11-12, 20:16
Svar #78

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne,

When looking for Peter and Christian Anström you said:

Citera
it would be important to note the name of the place. They should be noted there perhaps in a soldiers cottage.

In the response from Leif, the record for Peter Anström can be found at:

Generalmönsterrullor--Jönköpings-regemente-F-372-1741-1742-Image-380-Page-370
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v50309?image=380

I'm not exactly sure where he is living - how can I tell?  If I back up a page, it says Vastra Harad but not quite sure what the rest of it all means.

Thanks for your help!

Vicki

By the way - I'm glad you mentioned that the name may listed as Anström, which is how I found it!

2020-11-12, 21:01
Svar #79

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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That was a lucky streak!

You found Peter Anström, and he in not a common numbered soldier, he is a sergeant!

He is listed i Västra Härad's Company in Jönköping's Regiment, he is 29 years old (which fits his birth year), he has served 1 ½ year, his birth place is "Smål." which means Småland (both Kronoberg and Jönköping (and Kalmar) belongs to the "landscape" Småland). He is absent, ill at home.
If you look at the following pages the common soldiers have numbers, and a place named where they have their soldiers hut. To know where the company's sergeant was supposed to live one has to look it up in a register here known as "Grill's". I'm not at all familiar with this area, but if Grill is correct a sergeant in No. 3 Vestra Härads Komp should live in either Rönhult etc in Malmbäck parish or Råsa in Lommaryd parish. At least somewhere to start looking.

Tryckt litteratur (o) Grill:2 (1856) Bild 760 / sid 143 (AID: v792654.b760.s143)

Keep paging...

/Yvonne

2020-11-12, 21:39
Svar #80

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Thank you so much!  I'll start "paging" ...   :)

Vicki

2020-11-14, 18:29
Svar #81

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Yvonne,

So far I've found no evidence of Peter Anström living in either Rönhult in Malmbäck parish or Råsa in Lommaryd parish.  There are no household records available around that timeframe.  I've checked for birth records for possible children and for marriage records.   Still need to check death records. 

There is a big gap in the available GMRs between 1744 and 1759.  Peter is no longer there in 1759.  The 1743 and 1744 GMRs have no notes, but the 1742 GMR seems to have an extensive note but am unsure how helpful it will be in locating him.

Can you tell me if the notes on the attached GMR gives any indication where he might be?

Generalmönsterrullor--Jönköpings-regemente-F-373a-1742-Image-329
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v50310?image=329

No sign of Christian Anström so far - but I'm still trying to locate him also!

Thanks so much for your help,

Vicki
 

2020-11-14, 22:12
Svar #82

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Vicki,

That seems to be a tough one: Sergiant - the Regiment adjutant Carl Lillie has been transferred to Wäsbo härad's company on 14th of January 1740. Instead came here från the same position and company, same date, Bengt Silfversverd, who was promoted on 30th of May 1741 to fältväbel (sergiant major?) at the Major's company. Instead came here, advancing from the position of förare (fourier?) at Wasbo company the same day Johan Dohmäij who on the 20th of January 1742 was transferred to the aforesaid Wäsbo company and the position of sergiant, again here instead has been promoted on the same date from the position of förare at the Lieutenant Colonel company - Petter Ahnström - 29 (years old), (been in service) 1 ½ (year), Smål(änning, birth place). Ill at home".

His position as förare at överstelöjtnantens compagnie you can see here:

Generalmönsterrullor - Jönköpings regemente (F) 373a (1742) Bild 59 (AID: v50310.b59, NAD: SE/KrA/0023)

It does not say where he came from before that. Nor does it say what happened after 1744. So I looked for inventories again, and I think I found him:

Tveta häradsrätt (F) FII:4 (1756-1760) Bild 219 / sid 425 (AID: v77824.b219.s425, NAD: SE/VALA/01593)

He seems to have died in Roestorp in Svarttorp parish 1757! Hopefully you can follow his family from there.

So now we only miss Christian....

/Yvonne

2020-11-14, 22:40
Svar #83

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Wonder why we do this when someone has already done the work, you must look at this:



http://www.mattiasloman.se/forskning/index.php?title=Ahnstr%C3%B6m#TAB_2


:-)))
/Yvonne

2020-11-14, 22:45
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne,

Thank you so much for this!  I can see why that must have been a tough one - it is quite confusing to follow but very interesting!   Thank you also for finding the place where Peter came from before his promotion to Sergeant AND for his inventory. 

I really appreciate this new information that will enable me to move forward and am eager to follow it up!   

Yes, Christian - I hope to find him also, so will keep at it.

Thanks again for this very useful and interesting information!  And now I see you have sent another reply.... one moment while I take look!

Vicki

2020-11-14, 22:52
Svar #85

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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WOW!!  i can't believe it!  This is a great find!  How did you come across it?  We have done an excellent job of sleuthing so far, wouldn't you say? 

Gee, this makes it much easier!  And we have Christian also! 

Great fun!

Thanks so much for this!!

Vicki

2020-11-14, 23:46
Svar #86

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Yvonne,

In looking at the information from the Ahnström Från Biografiska anteckningar, it looks as if (TAB 1)indicates that the names of the parents of Peter and Christian are unknown.... is that your interpretation?  They were researching the name Ahnström back in time and we were coming from the other direction, looking at what happened to all the children of Jöran Jonsson. 

If that is the case, whoever wrote the biographical information on Peter and Christian probably would want to know the connection we've made using the information that Lars-Ola sent....

What do you think?

Vicki

2020-11-15, 13:47
Svar #87

Utloggad Lars-Ola Stare

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Hejsan
Regarding Göran Jonssons wife, Kerstin Jonsdotter, there are is a court record sharing some light at her origin:



Samma dag presenterades i Rätten ett Sälliebref dat: d: 26 april
1710 hwarmedelst Syskonen Per Joenßon i Hästhult, Johan Jonßon i
Ößjöhult, Kierstin Joensdåtter i Andersta Bergsgd och Kierstin
Joensdotter i Anderstad Byagd tillstå hafva opdragit ock
försålt till Brodern erlige dannemannen Niels Joensson deras
Skattjords andelar i Wiggåhsa Söregd ock betalt för hwar broder:   
lått 26 dlr ock hwar Systerlått 11 dlr Smt giörandes till
hopa med kiöparens egen arfdalått ? skattjord i bemte
gård för 100 dlr Smt KiöpeSkilling, Så emedan samma
Kiöp är frywilligen Skiedt, betahlningen ricktigt påfölgdt
ock jorden här å Tinge 3ne gånger opbudin 1718 på
Sommar ock höstetingen ock 1719 på wintertinget ock sedar:
mera oklandrad Lagståndit, altså dömmes det fast at stånda
ock ey återgånga, afhändes ..? ock bewilliades Skiöte.
(Sunnerbo dombok 1720-11, § 105)


The siblings Per, Johan, Kerstin and Kerstin is selling their parts of Viggåsa Sgd to their broder Nils Jonsson.


From the Sunnerbo "småprotokoll", 1718 summer court, a similar record is noted, but with the difference that the sisters men are mentioned in their place.



Pehr Jöensson i Hästhult och Johan Jöensson i Össiö-
hult samt Anders Erichsson i Bergsgd af Jöran
Jöensson i Anderstad försålt sina undfallne skat-
tejord dehlar i Wiggåhsa Sgd till sin broder och
swåger Nils Jöensson hvilken resten en bro-
derlått och jorden bestående af 3/8 astime
rad tillhopa för 100 dlr smt efter bref d 26
april 1710                 1 gg
[Sunnerbo småprotokoll 1718 ST]


The siblings are most likely children of nämdemannen Jon Persson in Viggåsa (and his wife Ingeborg).


Interesting with the Anström brothers!


Regards, Lars-Ola, Halmstad
larsolaj@gmail.com

2020-11-15, 14:47
Svar #88

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Hi again Lars-Ola,

Thank you so much for this additional information!  It is all very interesting and I will follow up on it along with all of the new information I've just received about the Anström brothers!

You and Yvonne are keeping me very busy!  And, I'm enjoying it all immensely!  I would have never been able to learn all of this without your continued help and interest!!

Thanks again to you both!

Vicki

2020-11-15, 15:01
Svar #89

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Thanks a lot again Lars-Ola - very interesting! I obviously must start reading the courtbooks for my older lines there.


And Vicki, now you have another generation back to document. I'm following with interest.


/Yvonne

2020-11-15, 15:47
Svar #90

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I'll keep you posted!!    ;D

Thanks again,

Vicki

2020-11-16, 20:23
Svar #91

Utloggad Lars-Ola Stare

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Regarding Göran Jonsson maternal grandfather, Jon, I believe he lived in Viggåsa södregård in Annerstad parish.


I have noted two court records for nämndemannen Jon Persson (brother to my ancestor and possibly an ancestor) in my databas, one from 1658 and one from 1666. Also he is mentioned in the 1682 rotelängd, with full name and titel. If this Jon Persson is the maternal grandfather one can go another three generations back to the first tax records from 1538.


Problem is that there is a Jon Nannesson mentioned in the soldier record from 1686.


In the mantalslängder, Jon is just mentioned by his first name. Jon and wife is noted 1695, and in 1701 Jon is a widower.
The wife (Ingeborg?) died probably in June 1698 [Annerstads kyrkoarkiv, Räkenskaper för kyrkan. Äldre allmän odelad serie samt huvudräkenskaper., SE/VALA/00015/L I a/1 (1686-1718), bildid: C0065291_00025]


Jon passed away in January 1707 [Annerstads kyrkoarkiv, Räkenskaper för kyrkan. Äldre allmän odelad serie samt huvudräkenskaper., SE/VALA/00015/L I a/1 (1686-1718), bildid: C0065291_00047]


Hopefully could further studies in the court book give more information.


Regards, Lars-Ola, Halmstad
[size=78%] [/size]

2020-11-16, 21:44
Svar #92

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Hi again Lars-Ola,

Thank you so much for this further information.  I feel that I'm rather slow at my research but am trying to understand clearly what I am documenting.  I really appreciate all of this information and only wish I could digest it faster!  :) 

One question I have is about the two Kierstins - I have not, so far, seen two surviving children named the same name, both still living.  Usually, one dies and other gets same name.  Is this unusual? 

I think I've found the other Kierstin's family (she was married to Anders Ericksson in Bergsgd, Annerstad.  Fortunately there is a household record for 1718-1723 available.  While there are no last names, I think this is the correct record for them.

Annerstad-G-AI-1-1718-1723-Image-136-Page-259
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18248?image=136

Hopefully, I can use this information to learn more about this family.

Also, I think I may have found the household record for Nils and his family at Vigåssa, Annerstad - also from a 1718-1723 household record.

Annerstad-G-AI-1-1718-1723-Image-77-Page-141     
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18248?image=77

There is a 1744 death record in Vrå for a Pehr Jonsson , if I'm reading the place name correctly as Håsthult this could possibly be his death record.  It would put his birth year circa 1664. 

These findings need further proof which I will continue looking for.   

There are no household records available in Vrå for the 1718-1720 timeframe to give me a starting point for the other siblings so I will check other records.

It would be very exciting if the Jon Persson we are discussing is a brother to your ancestor and the same person referenced in the 1658 and 1666 court records and also mentioned in the 1682 rotelängdand, enabling us to go tack another three generations!  (I am not clear on what a rotelängdand is, unfortunately). 

I can see that I have much more work to do and I am very happy to do it!  If you see anything that you feel is obviously incorrect so far, please tell me.  At this point I am not taking it as fact, but only that it requires more research.

Thank you so much for your continued interest and help,

Vicki


2020-11-16, 22:15
Svar #93

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Hello again!


More interesting news.


Two siblings could have the same name because of our old name giving tradition. If both the maternal and the paternal grandmothers were named Kirstin, and they both were dead, two daughters would get their names. It can be seen now and then.


/Yvonne

2020-11-16, 22:32
Svar #94

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Hi again!

Thank you for the explanation!  The thought had occurred to me but seems like it would cause a lot of confusion.  Still, it makes sense.  It is just that I haven't come across it before in my family.

Yes, all this wonderful information is very exciting!  You are both keeping me very busy!

Thanks again for all of your help,

Vicki

2020-11-16, 23:59
Svar #95

Utloggad Lars-Ola Stare

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I am now leaning more and more towards Jon Nannesson being the father of Kerstin Jonsdotter.


In 1684 nämndeman Jon Persson is old and leaves his office and a son Olof is mentioned.
https://www.sunnerbo.nu/Sunnerbo-dombok-1684.s37?highlight=Wigg%C3%A5sa


Olof Jonsson is probably the person who died in 1714 in Hallarp, Annerstad.
[size=78%]A son Olof do not fit well with the court record with Kerstin and her siblings mentioned.[/size]


Jon Nannesson was married to Karin Johansdotter
https://www.sunnerbo.nu/Sunnerbo-dombok-1696.s26?highlight=Wigg%C3%A5sa


I will try to collect some more data when I have the time.


Regards,
Lars-Ola

2020-11-17, 00:36
Svar #96

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Hi again Lars-Ola,

I agree that since there is no sibling named Olaf, it is unlikely that Jon Persson is the father of Kiersten Jonsdotter and her siblings. 

If Jon Nannesson is the father of Kiersten Jonsdotter (and her siblings) and Karin Johansdotter is their mother, then it makes sense the one of the siblings is named Johan after their mother's father. Secondly, Kiersten Jonsdotter (married to Jöran Jonsson) had a daughter named Karin Jöransdotter, named after her own mother Karin Johansdotter.  But, I don't see how Nanne fits in unless there was another son who had died earlier who had that name. 

It is all very interesting!  I look forward to hearing more when you have time!  I have plenty to work on in the meantime and I'm appreciative of whatever you have time to do!

Again, thank you so much for all your help,

Vicki

2020-11-18, 15:26
Svar #97

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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The marriage record and the death records for Sergeant Christian Ahnström and his wife, Margaretha Elisabet Humble, are very interesting.  I understand a lot of it but still need help with the rest of it.

11-11-1755 marriage record:
Trehörna-E,-F-C-3-1754-1799-Image-122-Page-231
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v36381?image=122

On 11 Nov (1755) were married the sergeant from the Jönköping regiment of ? Company, Christian Ahnström, and Miss(?) Margaretha Elizabeth Humble in Flugebo. I don't understand the last sentence at all so any help would be appreciated.

1759 death record for Christian Ahnström:
Trehörna-E,-F-C-3-1754-1799-Image-75-Page-141
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v36381?image=75

18 Apr (1759) died and on 11 May was buried a Sergeant from the Jönköping regiment, Christian Ahnström. in Flugebo.  He married Margaretha Elizabeth Humble on 11 Nov 1755 and they had 2 children, 1 son and 1 daughter who died. I don't know what it says after that, except he was 44 years old.  Again, any help with this with the last part would much appreciated.  Interestingly , their death records almost read like a modern day obituary.

1761 death record for Margaretha Elizabeth Humble:
Trehörna-E,-F-C-3-1754-1799-Image-76-Page-143
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v36381?image=76

14 Mar (1761) died the Sergeant's widow Margaretha Elizabeth Humble who was born 26 Feb 1726, married 11 Mov 1755, ? the Sergeant died 18 Apr 1759 ???? They had 2 children, 1 son and 1 daughter who is buried with parents??  Again, I can't figure out the rest (except she was 35 years and 10 days old) so any help with my understanding would be much appreciated! 

Thanks so much,

Vicki

2020-11-18, 19:19
Svar #98

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Vicki,

I'm filling in:


On 11 Nov (1755) were married the sergeant from the Jönköping regiment at foot, Norra Wedbo Company, Mr. Christian Ahnström, and Miss (Jungfru=when of better family) Margaretha Elizabeth Humble in Flugebo. "I morgongåfwa lofwades 1000 Rdr? Solfrmt", i e as wedding gift to the bride daler (or riksdaler?) 1000 silver coins was promised.
...
18 Apr (1759) died and on 11 May was buried the Sergeant from the Jönköping regiment, Mr. Christian Ahnström. in Flugebo. He was born 1715, He married to the left widow Margaretha Elizabeth Humble on 11 Nov 1755. Together they had 2 children, 1 son and 1 daughter who died. (I don't know what it says after that, except he was 44 years old.  Again, any help with this with the last part would much appreciated.  Interestingly , their death records almost read like a modern day obituary.) He was buried in church and lies just in front of the pulpit by the aisle under the men's of Flugebo and Ekeberg seats. His illness was lungsot (consumption?) which had tormented him for years. Age 44 years.
...
14 Mar (1761) died and the 27th was buried the late Sergeant's Mr. Christian AHnström's widow Margaretha Elizabeth Humble who was born 21 Feb 1726, married 11 Nov 1755, to the above mentioned Sergeant who died 18 Apr 1759. Born under their marriage 2 children, 1 son and 1 daughter who (is buried with parents??  Again, I can't figure out the rest (except she was 35 years and 10 days old) so any help with my understanding would be much appreciated!) ..who died before the parents. The son lives. Has been ill for a few years and had now been tied to the bed for 1/2 year due to lungsot (consumption?) and pain, at last very ill/poor. Her illness was lungsot. Age 35 years 10 days. Has been buried beside her husband in church just in front of the pulpit under the men's of Flugebo and Ekeberga seats.

/Yvonne

2020-11-18, 21:20
Svar #99

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Hi Yvonne,

Thank you so much! This interesting information really gives us a glimpse of their lives at the time.  Even for a "better family" life could be very difficult. 

The detailed description of their burial places is also very interesting.  In the notes it appeared that Christian was buried in the church but I had thought that meant in the church cemetery (rather than inside the church).  I'm glad that you were able to provide a more thorough description of where Christian and his wife were buried. 

Thanks again for filling in my (large) gaps and for other clarifications.  As you can see, I'm still documenting the Ahnström
brothers.  :) 

It's all so interesting!

Vicki

2020-11-22, 22:30
Svar #100

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Today I found the 1759 and 1761 Estate Inventories for Christian Ahnström and his widow, respectively. 

When Christian Ahnström died in 1759, he had two very young children: a son Georg Gustaf b. 1756 and a daughter Eva Christina b. 1758. 

Christian Ahnström's (1759) Estate Inventory mentions his widow M E Humble but I don't see mention of the children.  But, there is mention of a Jacob Johansson in ? and a Nils Pehrsson in Hult  (Not sure who they are but they are also mentioned in the widow's estate inventory in 1761.)  Christian's estate inventory begins on:

Norra-Vedbo-häradsrätt-F-FII-3-1758-1760-Image-246-Page-483
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v77675?image=246

Widow Margareta Elisabet Humble (1761) Estate Inventory is very long and appears to have many family members and relationships included!  She must have come from an important family?  I can't figure it all out.  Both of the children, Georg Gustaf and Eva Christina are mentioned.  I am guessing, since they are still very young children, they are explaining what will happen to the children....it begins on page:

Norra-Vedbo-häradsrätt-F-FII-4-1761-1762-Image-53-Page-99
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v77676?image=53

Any insight of what happened to them and who this family is would be much appreciated!  It looks very interesting....

Thanks for your help,

Vicki

2020-11-22, 23:11
Svar #101

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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I just realized that I have more information on Margareta Elisabet Humble's family (from the Anström biographical information I received earlier!) and at least one name looks familiar already - maybe I can figure a little more of it out....  :)

Thanks for any help,

Vicki

2020-11-22, 23:55
Svar #102

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Eva Catharina Rotkirch is the children's grandmother (their mother's mother) and Magnus is the children's uncle (their mother's brother).  I'm not sure who some of the others are, but was wondering what happened to the 2 children. 

Thanks for your help,

Vicki

2020-11-23, 11:14
Svar #103

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Vicki,


Christian's inventory does not give much lead on family members. I think the head of the last paragraph looks like it says "Fodringar" ie demands. The persons mentioned there are people who Christian had an economical demand on: the fänrik (second lieutenant?) Trozige has borrowed 16 and the priest Mr Alexander Roswall in "rölingsta" has borrowed 140. Then a very sad widow, M: E: Humble testifies that all is correct. Jacop Johansson is evaluating the estate together with Nills Pehrsson who is a local court member.

His wife's inventory from 13-14 april starts: "After the late sergeant Mr Christian Ahströms widow virtuous Madame Margareta Elisabet Humble who died on 14th of March and left a son named Georg Gustaf 5 years old, who is now the only inheritor after his late mother. Present were the guardians of the inheritor, his mother' mother Mrs Lieutenant (meaning that she was married to a Lieutenant) well born mrs Ewa Chatarina Rottkirck and his mother's sister miss Ulrica Humble, who had taken care of the household during the mother's illness and after her death; and together with the servants she formally gave the estate for evaluation; also the Sergeant the noble and masculine Mr Magnus Humble in the role of the inheritor's mothers brother, now his good man and becoming probably his guardian, as the child's mother had asked him to do before she died, together with the evaluation officers: the local court man wise man Jacob Jacob Johansson in Finnås in Linderås parish and the rusthållare wise Nills Pehrsson in Hult in Trehörna parish...

Before the signatures the grandmother has remarked that the grandson should have compensation for the harvest from the 1/3 of an estate that was sold during the year. After the signatures it is said that the child's mother has stipulated that all items in the inventory that are marked with an NB except books should be put in a locked box to be placed in Trehörna church until the son is old enough to appreciate the goods.

Then the evaluation continued on April 15 at the sergeant's place Wahlstorp in Linderås parish which belonged to the now late Margareta Elisbet Humble and now her son:... This document was signed by the court member, the boy's uncle and the local maid (who probably looked after the house) at Walstorp, Annicka Månsdotter. Thereafter a reservation is made for coming costs that are not yet known and will be added on later.

So it seems that the daughter died before her mother, only the son was left.

/Yvonne

2020-11-23, 11:21
Svar #104

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Eva Christina died 1758 in dec - they are all mentioned on Mattias Loman's page, even if you might want to control all the dates....

/Yvonne

2020-11-23, 15:37
Svar #105

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne,

Thank you so much for this!   I had confused Eva Christina and Eva Catharina so thank you for clearing up my misunderstanding and also explaining who Ulrica Humble was.   Jacob Johansson and Nils Pehrsson were not related to the family then, so that makes sense.  I just hadn't been sure how they fit in, only that they appeared on both estate inventories.

These inventories really shed light on the difficulties families went through and how they supported each other.  It is very interesting.  Do I understand correctly then, that before she died, she had asked her brother, Magnus, to be the guardian of the only surviving child, Georg Gustaf?  Would that have been only for representing the son for the estate inventory or to actually take him into his family?  Or would legal guardianship have to be established later through a separate court case?

I continue to review and add to, where possible, the information that you and Lars-Ola have given to me!  I can't resist expanding (and documenting) all the I can find.  Everything I learn is of interest!

Again, thank you so much for all your help!

Vicki






2020-11-23, 16:21
Svar #106

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Vicki,

Yes you understand correctly, the mother had asked her brother, Magnus, to be the guardian of her only surviving child. A guardian, I believe would have had to be confirmed in a document - some of them are preserved but I'm not sure where, possibly in another court decision - and he would no doubt have been responsible for taking care of the child's economy, arranging for his upbringing whether it was at his own home or if he arranged that with somebody else or at a school somewhere. That would have lasted until he was of age to manage his own affairs. In this case he was already in military service before 1772.

/Yvonne

2020-11-23, 16:49
Svar #107

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne,

Thank you for confirming my understanding and for the additional information!  In 1772 he would have only been about 16 years old!  I see that he had quite a military career. They were a very military family.

Your help is much appreciated,

Vicki


2020-11-29, 11:55
Svar #108

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Discussions about Jon Nannesson etc continues here.

2020-11-30, 22:50
Svar #109

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Hi Lars-Ola,

You sent a reference to a Jon Nannesson for me to view:

Citera
[/size]Regarding the name Nanne, Yvonne is correct that it is more frequent in Vrå parish. And there is a connection Vrå parish with two of the sons, Per and Johan came to live there. Also it is possible that Jon Nannesson is the same person that were the sexton/ringer in Vrå 1682 (Slättevrå)[size=78%]

Riksarkivet: Roterings- och utskrivningslängder, Arkiv med löpande volymnumrering, SE/KrA/0025/0/45 (1682), bildid: A0054893_008

I am not sure how to access this on Riksarkivet.  Unfortunately, I'm not very familiar with Riksarkivet.  Can you explain what I need to do to access it?  (I think I got close but then received a plug-in error).

Thank you very much,

Vicki

2020-11-30, 23:12
Svar #110

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Direct link:

https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0054893_00867#?c=&m=&s=&cv=866&xywh=64%2C525%2C4307%2C2505

If you know the correct picture ID (bildid) you can type it in the search box. In this case I think the last two figures are missing, the correct ID should be A0054893_00867.

Go to Riksarkivet's search page and type the picture ID in the box and you should be able to read it.

https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildid

/Yvonne

2020-11-30, 23:47
Svar #111

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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I tried and got the same "This plugin is not supported" error.  So, I guess I need to figure out if there's a plugin I need to get.... any idea what I might need?

Thanks for your help!

Vicki

2020-11-30, 23:55
Svar #112

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Strange, it should work without any plugin? See https://sok.riksarkivet.se/om-soktjansten?infosida=om-bildvisningen

Choose Language Enlish at the top. Which browser are you using?

You can also contact them directly and ask what to do when it does not work properly, they are usually very helpful.

/Yvonne

2020-12-01, 00:00
Svar #113

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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The image looks like this:


2020-12-01, 00:04
Svar #114

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne,

Thank you!  I will also look into why it is not workingl

Good point about the browser.  I'm using Chrome but I can try others.   What do you use?  I haven't had an problem on Riksarkivet before so I could be able to get to the bottom of it!

It is interesting that you had pointed out Johan Nannesson's death record in 1752 on another topic!  So I'm trying to see if any of these pieces fit together...

Thanks again for your help!

Vicki

2020-12-01, 00:22
Svar #115

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Hi again,

I just switched my browser to Microsoft Edge and it works perfectly! 

Thank you again for your help,

Vicki

2020-12-01, 01:55
Svar #116

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Attached is a 1680 tax record for Slattevrå, Vrå that shows a Jon and wife and a Hans(?) and wife at Slattevrå (circled in red). I am not sure what it says at the beginning of the line (circled in blue)  It looks like these are military people though. Would it be at all possible for this person to be the same person as the sexton/bell ringer in the 1682 document we just looked at?

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-29-1680-Image-1240-Page-956
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840153?image=1240&page=954

It seems possible that Jon Nannesson may have come from Vrå since there is a connection there with two of his sons but I don't see anything in the court records that would indicate where Jon Nannesson was living when he bought the properties in Viggåsa Sodergård in Annerstad. Did I miss it?

There is a Jöns in Slattevrå 1687 but am not sure if that is the same person or not. 

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-34-1687-Image-1120-Page-1475
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840158?image=1120&page=1473

I don't find Jon listed there in 1689 or 1690.

Still nothing to prove a definitive link between Jon Nannesson in Slattevrå in Vrå and Jon in Viggåsa Sodergård in Annerstad yet.  I'm not actually sure if any of this is linked but would like your thoughts on what I have found so far.  I will continue  tomorrow. :)

Thanks so much for all of your help,

Vicki

2020-12-01, 12:26
Svar #117

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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The notes in front of each farm/village says which kind of tax they are paying - to the military, to the state or to the church. Some farms pay to the Infantry, some to the Cavalry and in some cases it even states the name of the officer who collects tax (and/or soldier from that farm). In front of Slättewrå it says Past:s stomb, which means it is the priest's farm from which he collects tax or other goods as part of his living.

No Joen is there 1689 - the Jöns you see is a farmhand (not married) although he (and/or Lars) are now bell ringer(s).

You can never from year to year in a tax book assume that a "Joen and wife" are the same couple although it seems likely - unless you have other facts to confirm that - in a will, inventory, note in a court book etc. It can give you clues only.

/Yvonne

2020-12-01, 14:36
Svar #118

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you for this information!  It is interesting about the kind of tax they are paying, I didn't realize this and had wrongly been assuming that they were military people. I only remember seeing this notation in the older tax records and found it a bit confusing.  I should have asked (there are so many things to ask!).  :)

I know that it is all disconnected at this point, but I'm trying to establish whether there is any possibility that Jon and wife on the Slättewrå 1680 tax record in Wrå could be the same Jon as the 1682 sexton/bell ringer.  It seems possible if he had an affiliation with the church tax. There are no other tax records available between 1680 and 1687.  In 1687 (and after), it looks like Jon is no longer in Slättewrå.  But, in 1687, there is a Jon (likely Nannesson) living in Viggåsa Sodergård in Annerstad, therefore, I think it is possible that they could be the same person.  Mainly, I'm trying to determine whether I should rule it out or not. 

Don't worry - I never assume anything.  As long as there is a possibility that I am heading the right direction, I will keep collecting more data.  Otherwise I will drop that line of inquiry and leave my notations for future reference.   I think it is still a possibility at this point.

Even if I don't find proof in the records that I am able to locate and review, that's ok.  I'll keep my notes and if I can come across more information in the future that can prove a connection, that would be great! 

All your help and input is very much appreciated,

Vicki

2020-12-03, 21:37
Svar #119

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Attached is a 1719-1723 Annerstad household record for Nils and Bengta.  There is name crossed out (looks like it could be Per) but is not designated as a son or daughter but instead with letter g? in front of it.  There is also a note that looks like it says ? in Vrå but I am not sure of the first word.

Can anyone tell me what this says and would it apply only to that one person?

Thanks very much for any help with this,

Vicki

2020-12-03, 21:39
Svar #120

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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The page is found at

Annerstad-G-AI-1-1718-1723-Image-77-Page-141
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18248?image=77

Thanks!

Vicki

2020-12-03, 21:53
Svar #121

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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g = gossen, the young boy (most likely not their son as the others are specifically mentioned as daughters or sons)


tienar i Wrå - is serving (working) in Wrå, and yes the remark is for him only


/Yvonne

2020-12-03, 21:55
Svar #122

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thanks very much for this!

I appreciate it,

Vicki

2020-12-03, 22:36
Svar #123

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne and Lars-Ola,

I guess I've gone about as far as I can on this particular family for now.  Thank you both very much for all of help you given to me!  Without it I never would have learned so much and it has all been so interesting!!

If you come across anything further that would help me determine if Kierstin Jonsdotter's father is Jon Nannasson (or someone else) , I hope you will update this topic because, of course, I would be very interested in learning what you've found!

Thank you again,

Vicki

2020-12-03, 23:20
Svar #124

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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That's OK, it has been interesting. Of course I will let you know if I stumble across new clues. Good luck in your continued efforts with other lines in these dark woods...
/Yvonne

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