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Författare Ämne: Help translating household exam  (läst 952 gånger)

2019-01-26, 00:24
läst 952 gånger

Utloggad Bradley Bystrom

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I am in need of help translating and interpreting the attached household exam. Bokenäs AI:15 page 127.
On the top of the page is listed Kjerstin Jacobsdotter 10/7 04 with three of her daughters, Oleana Eliasdotter 25/4 30, Anna Charlotta Eliasdotter and Helena Eliasdotter. Do the notes say they moved out to pages 162 and 164 in 1852 (I can't tell if they are coming or going)? They are listed again on the same page under Olaus Persson. Kjerstin Jacobsdotter, Oleana Eliasdotter, Helena Eliasdotter and Johanna Maria "Andersdotter". Do the notes say Kjerstin came back in from page 162 in 1854? And what do the notes say for Olean Eliasdotter (who is listed three times on the page) and her illegitimate daughter Johanna Maria? And am I reading it correctly that it says "Andersdotter"? Because Johanna Maria (Andersdotter?) was apparently born in Bokenas, why can I not find her listed in the parish birth records? Did it happen at times that illegitimate children were not recorded? Oleana is my great-great grandmother. Kjerstin is my great-great-great grandmother.
Thank you for any help in deciphering this record. I greatly appreciate it.


2019-01-26, 04:19
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Utloggad Leif Lundkvist

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Yes, they move to page 162 and 164 in 1852, "Socknens slut". They are very poor and have no fixed place to live in the parish. Page 162 and 164 are not really separate places, I guess that Oleana is separated because of her age.


They move back in 1854, but now they live in a "Backstuga" if I interpret it right, a house without land on Lilla Skårs property. They don't live together with Olaus Parsson who lives in "Intaget", another house under Lilla Skår.


Johanna Maria is named Andersdotter. Note that she has no birthdate, just a year. Her birth record might have been forgotten or not reported, or she was born in another parish, but other illegitimate children are recorded. Does she have a birth date and a birth parish later in her life? One remark is "försvarslös" = can not support herself.

2019-01-26, 05:11
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Utloggad Bradley Bystrom

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Thanks for your help. Bokenas AI:16 page 137 (see attachment) shows Oleana and Josefina Charlotta moving to Goteborg Domkyrko on 11 Dec. 1860. Johanna Maria however moved to page 121 in Bokenas. Later in life you find them back together again in Goteborg Domkyrko (see attachment) after Oleana marries Niklas Peterson. It seems very strange to leave one child behind. Even later in life no date is given for Johanna Maria outside of the year of her birth. However, Bokenas AI:16 page 121 states that Johanna Maria Andersdotter was born in Goteborg (if I am not mistaken). Are the records clear that Johanna Maria is Oleana's daughter? Bokenas AI:16 states that Olaus Pehrsson Gron was the father of Josefina Charlotta. No mention is ever given (as far as I have found) for the father of Johanna Maria Andersdotter. Again, was Oleana her mother? I look forward to hearing any thoughts you have regarding this mystery.

2019-01-26, 21:41
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Utloggad Leif Lundkvist

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The records say that Oleana is the mother of Johanna Maria, no doubt about that. This could have been a falsified statement, as there is (so far) no actual birth record, but nothing so far contradict that Oleana is the mother, why do you doubt?


1860 in Bokenäs AI:16 page 137 the note to the right say "bortacction hos Joh Skarp u Svepetorp 121". The meaning of that is that Oleana could not support the child and she was "sold" to Joh Skarp, who was the one that required least money from the parish to rise the child, as the parish was obliged to support the child when the mother could not, and the father obviously did not support the child.


Have you seen Josefina Charlotta's birth record? Where in AI:16 does it say that Olaus Pehrsson is her father?

2019-01-26, 22:15
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Utloggad Bradley Bystrom

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Thanks Leif for your response. I did find today on Bokenas AI/17 page 419 that Oleana Eliasdotter is listed as the mother of Johann Maria. Thanks for the translation of the note on Bokenas AI/16 page 137 regarding the "sale" of Johanna to Joh Skarp. I am not good at notes. Names and dates are not too hard but notes are a mystery so I am very grateful for your help. I was not aware of how things went in Sweden back in the 19th century. It's very helpful to know. Living in America in the 21st century it is hard for me to grasp how difficult a life my ancestors had. In the world I live in even the poorest of the poor have more than enough to eat, government housing, free health care and even free cell phones.
It makes me more appreciative of what I have been given!
And thanks for asking if I had seen Josefina Charlotta's birth record. I had but truly appreciate you asking. Her birth record can be found in Bokenas C/5 bottom of page 7.

2019-01-27, 03:22
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Utloggad Leif Lundkvist

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That birth record give a reference to the new book page 421, which is the page after Johanna Maria's in AI:17. It turns out that none of the children followed Oleana to Göteborg, and Josefina Charlotta died 1862-03-09 from measles and whooping cough. From her birth record the witnesses are from Carl Johan's parish in Göteborg, thus it is probably there she was born. Sometimes children are recorded both where they were actually born and where her mother was registered, but I find no record in Karl Johan for Josefina Charlotta, nor for Johanna Maria in 1855.


Do you know what happened to Oleana? She was married and widowed, had at least two more children and died 1886, Göteborgs Oscar Fredrik AI:8 (1883-1886) Bild 159 / sid 1671 (AID: v34557.b159.s1671, NAD: SE/GLA/13189).

2019-01-27, 17:45
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Utloggad Bradley Bystrom

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Are you sure about Josefina dying in 1862 and never making it to Goteborg? Bokenas B:2 image 27 shows Oleana and Josefina leaving for Goteborg Gustavi on 26/11 1860. Goteborg Gustavi AI:a8  page 648 shows Oleana with both her illegitimate daughters Johanna Maria and Josefina Charlotta and says they arrived from Bokenas 11/12 1860. Johanna moves to Norway in 1883, Josefina to obifk? (do you know what parish that is?) Son Carl Oskar died in 1862, Augusta Elfrida Mathilda in 1864. Last record available to me shows son Adolf Fredrik still living unmarried in Goteborg. Oleana's youngest child, Anna Charlotta (my great grandmother) leaves for America in 1890.


On a side note, Bokenas A:18 page 500 says that Johanna went to Goteborg Gustavi in 1870, but Bokenas B:3 image 29 states the year as 1872.

2019-01-27, 23:16
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Utloggad Leif Lundkvist

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This is a really complicated case. It is important to follow every step to get the right timeline, and I am not doing that, I hope you are! You are right about Josefina, she did actually moved with Oleana 1860-12-11. Petersson moved to Göteborg 1861-11-08, they married 1862 (can't read the date on page 648). Josefina Charlotta Olausdotter moved in 1861-11-09 in Bokenäs B:3 (1861-1895) Bild 7 (AID: v1352.b7, NAD: SE/GLA/13041) to page 421, which happen to be the day after Petersson moved to Göteborg. And Josefina died in 1862. On page 648 she is Obef = Obefintlig = non-existent, or in other words she got no attest from Göteborg when she was moved to Bokenäs. The K in Obef K is the letter on that volume, but I don't know where it actually is. Petersson and Olena got children 1860, 62, 63, 65 and 70, then Peterson died in 1875 and Oleana moved to Carl Johan's parish in 1878.


Bokenäs AI:18 page 500 actually say Johanna moves 1872, check carefully and you see it is a 2. And she arrives to Göteborg page 648 in 1872.


I guess you already know Olena is first registered 1860-12-11 in Göteborgs Domkyrkoförsamling AIa:7 (1847-1883) Bild 85 / sid 162 (AID: v35183.b85.s162, NAD: SE/GLA/13180) and moved to page 648 when she married.

2019-01-28, 20:02
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Utloggad Bradley Bystrom

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Thank you for clearing up what happens to Josefina Charlotta. This is now clear. Josefina leave with her mother, returns on 3/11 1861 (Bokenas B:3 sida 3), then dies at Bokenas (Bokenas AI:17 sida 421; Bokenas C:5 page 255).


I had not seen  Goteborgs Gustavi (Domkyrkoforsamling) AIa:7 Bild 85/sid 162. This record shows Oleana with BOTH her daughters Johanna Maria and Josefina Charlotta before she marries Niklas Petersson on 21 Feb. 1862 and moves to page 648. And looking closely at page 648 it appears (to me) that it has Johanna Maria marked as moving to Goteborg DK at the same time as Josefina Charlotta and Oleana (11/12 60). Could this be a mistake? I have searched the incoming and outgoing records for Bokenas and cannot find anywhere that Johanna Maria leaves for Goteborg DK before 1872. The more I look into this the more complicated it becomes. Thoughts??

2019-01-28, 20:57
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Utloggad Leif Lundkvist

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My interpretation is that Johanna Maria did not follow her mother to Göteborg, but if she did, she returned already in 1860 to be noted at Svepetorp in Bokenäs AI:16 (1856-1860) Bild 130 / sid 121 (AID: v1346.b130.s121, NAD: SE/GLA/13041). However, in Göteborg they for some reason thought that both daughters accompanied her, but the notes in Bokenäs AI:16 (1856-1860) Bild 146 / sid 137 (AID: v1346.b146.s137, NAD: SE/GLA/13041) are quite different for the two daughters. It would have been nice to see the Attest Oleana had when she arrived to Göteborg, they are sometimes preserved, it should have been after Göteborgs Domkyrkoförsamling HIIa:44 (1860-1860) Bild 5310 / sid 19542 (AID: v204388.b5310.s19542, NAD: SE/GLA/13180). Maybe both daughters were mentioned in the Attest but in different ways.

2019-01-28, 22:11
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Utloggad Bradley Bystrom

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Leif, I think your interpretation makes the most sense. I am truly grateful for all the help I have been given!

 

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