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Meddelanden - Victoria Cihla

Sidor: [1] 2
1
Yvonne and Kalle,

Thank you so much for this information, i really appreciate these additional leads and will follow up!

Vicki




2
Thank you for your help again, Yvonne!

I was confused about the first part of my translation wondering why a child from his second marriage was mentioned first (without a name) followed by the two daughters from his first marriage and then (after that) mentioning his widow and their son! :)  I did realize that the daughters were from his first marriage - my sentence was very clumsy because I misunderstood the first part! 

Sunnerbo häradsrätts arkiv, Bouppteckningar och arvskiften, SE/VALA/01582/F II/8 (1785-1787)

On the last page (attached) the representatives of the children are mentioned:

Joran Eriksson in Kånna is representing the daughter Karin (I think this may be the first wife's brother possibly)
Jacob S? from Ljungen is representing the daughter Maria (not sure who he might be yet)
Nils Arvidsson?? from Kånna is representing the son Pär?  (if I have the name right - maybe a brother of the boy's father?)

I just learned of this second marriage and am trying to see I can go back further on Jonas Arvidsson's line using this information.  :)

Thanks so much for your ongoing help!

Vicki


3
Thank you, Kalle,

I appreciate your help,

Vicki

4
Can anyone help me with the attached estate inventory? 

Sunnerbo häradsrätts arkiv, Bouppteckningar och arvskiften, SE/VALA/01582/F II/8 (1785-1787)

I think the first part is saying something like this (but I'm hoping someone can confirm or correct my understanding as needed):

28 December 1784 an estat3e inventory was taken following the death of “dannemann” Jonas Arvidsson in Kånna Arvidsgård (Kånna) on behalf of the child of his second marriage, daughter Karin, age 18 and daughter Maria, age 12 from his first marriage and his widow Märta Simonsdotter and son Pär age 4. 

I'm not at all sure what the end is saying (circled) so any help with this would be appreciated.

Thanks for your help,

Vicki

5
Thank you, Yvonne!  I was about to ask if you think that there was an error in the recording of the mother's name  I'm a descendent of the daughter Kierstin b. 1731 and Per (with error) is her brother!  I will note that!  My information should be correct in that case!  Whew! 

The funny thing is that Per's is the only name of the four children born to them (that I know of) where it is listed as just plain Tannäker! it is the family from Stora Tannäker that I'm trying to trace back further.  It may be unlikely I can go further on that likely but I love trying!!

Thanks again for following up!  I really appreciate all the help!

Vicki

6
Thank you both for this information!  I am double checking my information and think I may have an error. and so may have additional questions.

Thanks so much for your help!

Vciki

7
Attached is a 1727 tax record that I'm having trouble understanding.  It looks as if Pär and wife are listed twice at Stora Tannåker (it says dito by the second one).  Can anyone tell me if they are the same Pär and wife or two different ones?  What does the heading Arrendxxx? mean that is above the first one?  I've seen these same entries repeated for several years as I look the tax records each year.

Any help would be much appreciated,

Vicki

8
General questions / SV: Need help with note on 1744 tax record
« skrivet: 2021-05-19, 02:06 »
Hi again!

Thank you for your help,

Vicki

9
General questions / Need help with note on 1744 tax record
« skrivet: 2021-05-18, 23:37 »
Can anyone tell me what the circled note on the attached tax record says?  It appears that Tor Nilsson (who has married Jöns daughter) is now running the farm - is Jöns maybe retiring?

Thanks for any help with this,

Vicki


10
General questions / SV: Need help with tax 1725 tax record
« skrivet: 2021-05-18, 22:58 »
Thanks, Ulf!  What I kept thinking was something like "not there" or something like that.

Thanks for your help!  Maybe someone else knows?

Thanks for any help with this,

Vicki

11
General questions / SV: Need help with tax 1725 tax record
« skrivet: 2021-05-18, 22:31 »
Hi Ulf!

Thanks very much!  The following year it looks like there is another notation for his wife - looks like obj?  A lot of others are also listed that way - I've seen it before but cannot remember what it means.  :(

Can you help me with this also (see attached)?

Thanks again for your help,

Vicki


12
General questions / Need help with tax 1725 tax record
« skrivet: 2021-05-18, 22:20 »
Can anyone tell me what the circled piece of the tax record says?  It it regarding his wife?

The tax record is for Grimshult Norrgård in Annerstad for Jöns (poor) and ?

Thanks very much for your help,

Vicki

13
General questions / SV: Need help reading names on
« skrivet: 2021-05-10, 14:09 »
Hi Jörgen,

Thank you for letting me know!  I would have searched in vain for Hylte!

Much appreciated,

Vicki

14
General questions / SV: Need help reading names on
« skrivet: 2021-05-10, 13:49 »
I also realize that I have the place name wrong! 

It thought that Hölte was Hylte.  :(

Thanks again for your help,

Vicki

15
General questions / SV: Need help reading names on
« skrivet: 2021-05-10, 13:44 »
Thank you Kalle and Ulf!

That's something new that I haven't come across previously - very interesting.

Thank you both for you help,

Vicki

16
General questions / Need help reading names on
« skrivet: 2021-05-09, 23:29 »
Can anyone tell me what the names are on the attached 1680 tax record for Hylte in Odensjö?

Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Kronobergs län 1642-1820 (G) 29 (1680) Image 1220 / Page 952
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840153?image=1220&page=952

Thanks for your help,

Vicki

17
General questions / SV: Need help with soldier name
« skrivet: 2021-05-08, 14:45 »
Thank you, Sune! 

This is very interesting and I appreciate your help!

Thanks again,

Vicki

18
General questions / SV: Need help with soldier name
« skrivet: 2021-05-08, 00:28 »
Wow!  Thank you very much Eva!

It looks like it mentions the beginning and ending dates of Tor Forsberg's military service and names the person taking his place when he leaves?   Is it Jöns Beckman or Anders Cromvall?  Not sure why two names.   I can see that the record does not list Tor's patronymic name.  I think it says that Anders Cromvall is age 20, has served for 1/2 year??, and is unmarried.  Can you tell me what it is saying specifically about Tor Forsberg and who the information in the last 3 columns refer to? 

Thank you so much for your help!  I was very surprised when I saw it! 

Much appreciated,

Vicki

19
General questions / SV: Need help with soldier name
« skrivet: 2021-05-07, 22:44 »
I see that this regiment was in Kristianstad county in Skåne province and I found the exact same information, on AD, as Sune did.  So does this mean there were no gmr records made during 1747-1753 or that none of them have been digitized yet?

Obviously, there is a record of him somewhere in order to have listed him on the Centrala Soldatregistret.  It looks like it is possible to contact the person listed on that website to inquire about getting more information.  Has anyone ever tried that?  If so, were you able to get any more information?  Neither of these two records for Tor Forsberg on Centrala Soldatregistret have a patronymic name so maybe it just isn't listed anywhere on the military records. Based on the specific dates of service as a ryttare on the tax records, it seems like the two Tor Forsbergs could be the same person as they exactly match the dates of service on the two Centrala Soldatregistret records.

Even though I still have not been able to prove that Tor Nilsson is Tor Forsberg -  I do have more information that supports it: after 1760 when there is no longer a Tor Forsberg listed in the Torpa tax records (he died in 1760) a widow Pernilla appears there in 1762, 1764, 1765, 1766 and 1767 and she is living with Olof Torsson in 1766).  Tor Nilsson's wife's name is Pernilla and they had a son Olof who is presumably who she is living with.

But, I would be very interested to hear your opinion on this - are the 2 Tor Forsbergs likely the same person? - are Tor Forsberg and Tor Nilsson likely the same person?  I realize that it would just be an opinion, but I would be interested to hear what you say.  Then, I should probably just put it to rest! ;D

Thanks for your help,

Vicki

20
General questions / SV: Need help with estate inventories
« skrivet: 2021-05-07, 15:22 »
Hi again,

That is what I hoped you might be doing by pointing out his signature!  I had thought Thor might be a nickname for Theodor but could find nothing to support that.

So, I will just "assume" the correct name is Thoresson or some variation of that name instead of Theodorson. 

Everything else fell into place with what you said - thanks so much for that,

Vicki

21
General questions / SV: Need help with estate inventories
« skrivet: 2021-05-07, 01:19 »
Thank you, Jörgen!

That is helpful information - I didn't realize that the I could represent both an I and J!  Very interesting.

Thanks again,

Vicki


22
General questions / SV: Need help with estate inventories
« skrivet: 2021-05-06, 23:55 »
Hi Yvonne!  Thank you ever so much for this!  It's nice to hear from you!

I was able to match up the children but I'm puzzle about a couple things:

1) What is the significance of the way the his older son signs himself as Thor T: Jönsson?  His birth record shows his name as Tor Jönsson (son of Jöns Torsson and Maria) born 30 Apr 1779.  (his name is not Theodor)

Torpa (G) C:3 (1773-1860) Image 18 / Page 27
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30194?image=18

2) This probably relates to the answer to my first question - Could all the references to Theodor and Theodorssöner actually mean Thoresson, which is their patronymic name?  It clearly says Theodor.... so not sure what to make of this. 

For example, these are the birth records for father's brothers Olof and Per:

Olaf    Torpa (G) C:2 (1748-1772) Image 3 / Page 1   (born 21 Mar 1748 in Forssa, Torpa)
          https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30193?image=3  born 21 Mar 1748 in Forssa, Torpa.

Per     Torpa (G) C:2 (1748-1772) Image 6 / Page 7   (born 27 Aug 1750 in Norrtorpa Millangård, Torpa)
          https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30193?image=6   

The same is true for the sister Ingebor who was married to Nils Nilsson.

Throughout his life, Jöns has used both the names Jöns Thorsson and Jöns Forsberg but I believe they are the people!

Any thoughts?  I can send more examples!   ;D

Thanks again - I really appreciate your help!

Vicki

23
General questions / SV: Need help with soldier name
« skrivet: 2021-05-06, 20:07 »
Thank you very much for looking into this!

I'm not at all familiar with these place names but it seems a strange coincidence that the time frame of the in and out dates of service fit exactly with my Tore Nilsson/Forsberg's tax records.   Hmmm.    Is there anywhere else I could check?   

Any further thoughts would be greatly appreciated,

Vicki


24
General questions / Need help with estate inventories
« skrivet: 2021-05-06, 19:11 »
In researching an ancestor's sibling, I found two different estate inventories for him:  the first one was when he died and I don't understand why there is another one for him in 1818. 

Attached is a copy of the listing showing 2 estate inventories for Jöns Forsberg.  (Sunnerbo häradsrätt (G) BouReg:2 (1735-1900) Image 157).  The first page of each is also attached.

Sunnerbo häradsrätt (G) FII:16 (1801) Image 231 / Page 382
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v76221?image=231&page=382

Sunnerbo häradsrätt (G) FII:26 (1818-1819) Image 265 / Page 484
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v76231?image=265&page=484

Both are difficult to read.  It looks like the first mainly mentions the children of the 2nd marriage.  It looks like the second mentions earlier children??

Why would there be 2 estate inventories so far apart?

Any help would be much appreciated,

Vicki

25
General questions / SV: Need help with soldier name
« skrivet: 2021-05-06, 18:42 »
I am continuing my search for military information on Thore Forsberg and am now adding my latest question to the original thread in case it is helpful in providing background information for anyone with the patience to read through it all!   ;D

What I'm still trying to learn is whether my ancestor Thore Nilsson is the same man as Thore Forsberg.  There are many things that indicate it is likely, however, the definitive proof is still lacking: a record showing his name as Thore Nilsson Forsberg.

The soldier record from Centrala Soldatregistret for Forsberg, Tore for 1755-1760 is as follows:

FORSBERG Tore
Släktnamn: -
Född: 1725
Död: 1760
Antagen: 1755
Avsked: 1760
Aktnummer: SU-K5-0043-1755
Regemente: Smålands kavalleriregemente
Rote: Västra Tansjö
Kompani: SUNNERBO KOMPANI
Socken: HINNERYD
Torpnummer: SU-K5-0043

The 1748-1752 tax records show Tore Nilsson was also a ryttare before 1755 and with a couple years break in his service. 

Today I found the following soldier record on Centrala Soldatregistret for 1747-1753 which appears to exactly match the timeframe I'm looking for and I believe is the same person as the one above:

FORSBERG Tor
Släktnamn: -
Född: -
Död: -
Antagen: 1747
Avsked: 1753
Aktnummer: SH-07-0021-1747
Regemente: -
Rote: Karup 7
Kompani: -
Socken: Västra Karup
Torpnummer: SH-07-0021

Can anyone help me find this person in the gmr?  There's not much information there so I don't know where to start my search.  

Thanks for your help!  It is much appreciated.

Vicki

26
General questions / SV: Need help with 1704 tax record Torpa
« skrivet: 2021-04-17, 21:03 »
Thank you very much for this information, Bengt-Göran!

I really appreciate it especially since it is so difficult to read!

Vicki

27
Thank you both, Leif and Lennart,

This very helpful information!

Much appreciated,

Vicki

28
Can anyone tell me what the note says on the attached 1693 tax record for Miäla?  I think the note is related to the person (Germund) listed below it.  Does it have to do with being a soldier? 

Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Kronobergs län 1642-1820 (G) 40 (1693) Image 1320 / Page 1470
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840164?image=1320&page=1470

Thanks for any help with this,

Vicki

29
General questions / Need help with 1704 tax record Torpa
« skrivet: 2021-04-16, 19:24 »
Can anyone help with the note(s) written on the attached Miäla tax record?  It looks like there may be a couple separate notes, one related to either Pär or Jöns and the other to Germund or the name under Germund's that I can't read!

Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Kronobergs län 1642-1820 (G) 46 (1704) Image 990 / Page 2155
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840170?image=990&page=2153

These notes are difficult to read and somewhat confusing so your help would be much appreciated,

Vicki

30
Thanks, Ulf!

I didn't recognize the word, but see it was used for another person the previous year.

Thanks again,

Vicki

31
Can anyone tell me what the note says on the attached tax record?  It is regarding Germund's wife.

Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Kronobergs län 1642-1820 (G) 52 (1718) Image 1420 / Page 1093
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840176?image=1420&page=1093

Thanks for your help!

Vicki

32
Thanks so much!  I've seen it a couple more times since I first asked, so this is very helpful!

Thanks again,

Vicki

33
Thank you, Ulf!

Your help is much appreciated!

Vicki

34
I apologize,  I forgot to add:

It can be found at:

Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Kronobergs län 1642-1820 (G) 49 (1707) Image 1850 / Page 1939

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840173?image=1850&page=1935

Thanks again,

Vicki

35
Can anyone tell me what the note on the attached tax record says - is it one note or two notes and which person or persons does it apply to?

Thanks so much for any help with this,

Vicki

36
Thanks very much for this.  The link to information on the "bomärke" is very interesting!

It is something new I haven't encountered so I much appreciate your thoughts. 

Vicki

37
Thank you for your help with this.  This is very interesting information.  I suspected that he was not a soldier but have no idea why he would have been in Stockholm at all.  My ancestor is one of the sisters (and their husbands) mentioned in his estate inventory.  He is the only one with that the Lillman surname.  My ancestor is Kierstin Johansdotter, married to Nils Jönsson.  On the last page of the inventory, are the marks there actually their signatures?

I realize you can't answer this question for certain, but I'm wondering, since I don't know where the family came from further back, is it more likely that he (the only son) left farming in the parishes in Kronoberg to go to Stockholm or that the family originated from the city of Stockholm and moved out to the various parishes in Kronoberg?  Not sure what the migration was like during those years - mid to late 1600's. 

Thanks again for your help and insight,

Vicki

38
Attached is a 1695 estate inventory from Stockholm.  Can anyone help me with the part that I've circled?

Stockholms-rådhusrätt-1-a-avdelning-A,-AB-F1A-52-1695-Image-2850-Page-259
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v222336?image=2850

It is an estate inventory that was done after the death of Nils Johansson Lillman in May 1695.  What does "Sal" before his name mean?  I am not sure what else that part says and wonder also what the reference to Hans von Gerdes is.  I'm trying to figure out if Lillman is a soldier name or ?.  Not sure at all what his connection to Stockholm would be.

Stockholms-rådhusrätt-1-a-avdelning-A,-AB-F1A-52-1695-Image-2850-Page-259
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v222336?image=2850

His death record can be found at:

Riddarholmen-A,-AB-CI-1-1636-1735-Image-404-Page-398
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v89121?image=404

If anyone can help me out with this, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks very much,

Vicki

39
Thank you very much! 

I appreciate your help,

Vicki

40
General questions / Need help with words on 1781 death record
« skrivet: 2021-03-03, 20:37 »
Can anyone tell me what the circled words on the attached 1781 death record are?

Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-197-Page-379
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=197

Thank you for your help,

Vicki

41
General questions / SV: Need help with 1801 Estate Inventory
« skrivet: 2021-02-24, 13:04 »
Hi again, Yvonee,

Thank you for this information.  Yes, that was my confusion.  I am still in the process of doing this research but was puzzled by the January death record I had found.  I thought she must still be alive.

Thank you again for your help, 

Vicki


42
Thank you so much!   I'll make the correction about first line.  That is very helpful!   

Vicki

43
Attached is a copy of a1750 tax record in Slättevrå.  Can anyone confirm/correct my translation of the notes on the right side for Per Swensson (with daughter Kristin and son Lars, age 15)?  I'm sorry for the poor quality copy.

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-57-1750-Image-2590-Page-505
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840181c?image=2590&page=503

I think the notes say:

Over age
Wife is ? and sickly
Sexton (or bell ringer) 

Thanks for your help,

Vicki


44
Thanks, Ulf!

I appreciate the clarification because it seemed that she would likely be widowed if she and her son were farming together, but it wasn't clear to me.

Very helpful, thanks again,

Vicki

45
General questions / SV: Need help with word on 1747 tax record
« skrivet: 2021-02-23, 20:57 »
oh, that is interesting!  Thank you, Ulf!

Vicki

46
General questions / Need help with word on 1747 tax record
« skrivet: 2021-02-23, 20:51 »
Can someone tell me what the circled word is on the attached 1747 tax record?

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-54-1747-Image-2620-Page-511
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840178?image=2620&page=507

Thanks for your help,

Vicki

47
The entry for Nils and Bengta on the attached tax record, indicates that they are mother and son.  It looks like it is saying that one of them is married.  Two people are being taxed if I read this correctly.  Who is married?  Is it the mother or the son?   It seems like it is the mother who is married, the son is not. 

Kronobergs-läns-landskontor-G-EV-3-1746-Image-4920-Page-1005
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v400711?image=4920&page=1001

Thank you for your help,

Vicki


48
General questions / Need help with 1801 Estate Inventory
« skrivet: 2021-02-23, 16:12 »
Can anyone help me with the information regarding Anna Persdotter in the attached copies from the Estate Inventory for Per Hansson who died in November 1801?  My question is where his widow, Anna Persdotter, is still living at the time of this inventory.

He is not listed as a widower on his death record but I found a death record that may be hers earlier in the same year.  They are both listed on the 1798-1802 household records, but neither are listed after that.  There is a note by his name only indicating he died in 1801. 

Any help in understanding this part of the estate inventory would be greatly appreciated. 

First page of inventory:
ArkivDigital: Sunnerbo häradsrätt (G) FII:17 (1802-1803) Image: 146 Page: 243
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v76222?image=146

Last page of inventory:
ArkivDigital: Sunnerbo häradsrätt (G) FII:17 (1802-1803) Image: 147 Page: 245
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v76222?image=147

Thanks for your help,

Vicki

49
Wonderful!

Thank you so much, Maud!

Vicki

50
Can anyone help with a translation of the attached 1723 death record for Nils Svensson?

I think it might be saying something like:

On 13 January (1723) Nils Svensson from Vänneböke Södergård was buried, he was married to his wife for 36 years and they had 8 children, he died on 2 January age 57 1/2 years old.   

Hinneryd-G-CI-1-1712-1773-Image-282-Page-553
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30628?image=282&page=5

If anyone can confirm/correct, I'd be most appreciative.

Thanks for your help,

Vicki

51
Thank you, Lars Ola! 

As always, I appreciate your help,

Vicki


52
General questions / SV: Need help with 1784 Torpa tax record
« skrivet: 2021-02-19, 13:50 »
Thank you very much.  I haven't seen that before, it is very interesting.

Do you know what it says after the name Anders (below it)? 

Thanks for your help,

Vicki

53
General questions / Need help with 1784 Torpa tax record
« skrivet: 2021-02-19, 00:20 »
Can anyone help me with the circled words on the attached 1784 Torpa tax  record?

ArkivDigital: Kronobergs läns landskontor (G) EIV:1 (1784) Image: 2560 Page: 499
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v400668?image=2560&page=495

Thank you for any help with this,
 
Vicki

54
Thank you very much.

I really appreciate your help!

Vicki

55
Can anyone tell me what the father's name and the mother's name is on the attached birth record for Anders?  It is the first birth record listed. 

ArkivDigital: Vrå (G) C:1 (1701-1823) Image: 69 Page: 129
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=69

Thanks for your help,

Vicki


56
Thanks, Ulf! 

That is very interesting and makes perfect sense! (and I would not have figured it out!)  :)

I appreciate your help,

Vicki

57
Attached is a 25 March 1776 marriage record for Widower Nanne Nilsson and Widow Anna Eliasdotter(?).  It looks like there was some kind of agreement at the time of the marriage.  I am not sure what it is saying.

ArkivDigital: Hinneryd (G) CI:1 (1712-1773) Image: 271 Page: 531
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30628?image=271

Any help with this would be much appreciated.

Thank you,

Vicki

58
Thanks very much!  The "gift" was confusing me so your response is very helpful. 

I will post my question about the marriage record separately to see if anyone can help with that.

Thanks again,

Vicki


59
Thank you so much for responding.

This family has been quite confusing because of the following records I have found:

The 1761-1773 household record for Nanne Nilsson and wife Karin Jönsdotter shows them with a daughter Catharina.

ArkivDigital: Hinneryd (G) AI:2 (1761-1773) Image: 48 Page: 79
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18566?image=48

The (next available) 1786-1791 household record shows Nanne Nilsson (with a note that he died) and showing a different wife, Anna Eliasdotter.

ArkivDigital: Hinneryd (G) AI:3 (1786-1791) Image: 220 Page: 210
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18567?image=220

With the gap of 13 years between these household records I thought maybe his first wife had died and he remarried.  I started looking through the marriage records and found that within the 1775 marriage records for Hinneryd, there were two death records, both which were subsequently crossed out.  The first appeared to be for a Nils (crossed out) Nilsson and later Nanne was written in above it, and the second one, was for a Karin Jönsdotter from Wenneböke Södergård.

Hinneryd (G) CI:1 (1712-1773) Image: 270 Page: 529
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30628?image=270&page=311

So I looked in the 1775 death records and found the death record for Karin Jönsdotter from Wenneböke Södergård (but none for Nanne Nilsson).

ArkivDigital: Hinneryd (G) CI:1 (1712-1773) Image: 363 Page: 715
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30628?image=363

On 25 March 1776 I found a marriage record for Nanne Nilsson and Anna Eliasdotter(?).

ArkivDigital: Hinneryd (G) CI:1 (1712-1773) Image: 271 Page: 531
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30628?image=271

However, I cannot understand what this marriage records says.  Can anyone help me with it? 

He had remarried, so I searched for Nanne Nilsson's death record, but when I found it, I thought maybe it was for his second wife, not for him.  This is because I didn't know if the record was saying that he was married at the time he died, or that it was his wife that died. 

Hinneryd (G) CI:2 (1774-1833) Image: 252 Page: 485
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30629?image=252

I still would like clarification on this record but I am thinking, now, that this is for Nanne Nilsson and not the wife.

Any further help would be appreciated,

Thanks again,

Vicki

60
Can someone confirm whether the attached death record is for Nanne Nilsson or for his wife? 

Hinneryd (G) CI:2 (1774-1833) Image: 252 Page: 485
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30629?image=252

Thanks for your help,

Vicki

61
Thanks very much, Leif!

I appreciate your help,

Vicki

62
Thanks very much for confirming this! 

I am trying to find his birthplace but it doesn't appear to be there - can you also confirm that?

Thanks again,

Vicki

63
Can anyone help me to understand the attached 1719 GMR for Nils Nilsson Wennberg?  I know that he is from Vänneböke Södergård in Smaland and that he is married.  Is the 20 3/4 his age?  Is 1 1/2 his number of years in the military? I'm having difficulty with the headings.

Generalmönsterrullor - Kronobergs regemente (G) 332 (1719) Image: 211
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v46670?image=211

Any help with this would be much appreciated!

Thank you,

Vicki

64
Thank you, Ulf!

Your help is much appreciated,

Vicki

65
Can anyone confirm or correct what I think the note says on the attached record?

I think it says they are "born in Vrå parish."

Also, it seems so refer to both the husband and wife, is that correct? 

ArkivDigital: Hinneryd (G) AI:2 (1761-1773) Image: 48 Page: 79
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18566?image=48

Thanks for any help with this,

Vicki

66
Thank you, Maud!

That is really interesting.  I was really struggling with the handwriting.  Thank you so much for your help! 

Vicki

67
Can anyone help with the attached death record for Karin Olofsdotter in April 1770? 

All that I can understand from the death record is:

April (1770) Karin Olofsdotter of Gungshults Södergård (Hinneryd) died and that she was 61 years, 3 months and 4 days old.

But, I cannot figure out the whole middle section of this record. 

Any help would be greatly appreciated,

Vicki

68
Thank you very much!

I appreciate your help,

Vicki

69
Can anyone tell me what the circled place names are on the attached birth record?

Hinneryd (G) CI:1 (1712-1773) Image: 95 Page: 181
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30628?image=95

Thanks for you help!

Vicki

70
General questions / SV: Need help with cause of death
« skrivet: 2021-02-08, 23:52 »
Thanks, Ulf.

I appreciate your help!

Vicki

71
General questions / Need help with cause of death
« skrivet: 2021-02-08, 19:57 »
Can anyone help with the cause of death on the attached Kånna death record?  I think it originally was measles but crossed out and replaced with a word I don't recognize.

Kånna (G) C:2 (1816-1860) Image: 98 Page: 229
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30539?image=98

Thanks for your help,

Vicki

72
General questions / SV: Need help with name on birth record
« skrivet: 2021-01-26, 01:44 »
Thank you very much for this information!  I apologize for not including a further link.

You have already discovered and referenced one link in  your reply:

Citera
Also I found a Sara born 1704 at Annerstad (G) AI:2 (1750-1772) Bild: 214 Sida: 411 at the same page as a Nils Nilsson but that Sara is most certain not Sara Plate because she was supposed to be born later.

There is also a Sara (no patronymic name) listed on the 1766 tax record at Annerstad Byagård in which it is my understanding that she is an older, probably unmarried woman, who was very poor.  When I saw Sara Plate listed among the sponsors at the baptism of one of Nils' children, I wondered if there was a connection.

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-73-1766-Image-1360-Page-570
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840197?image=1360&page=570

So, I think your theory that "sometimes the upper class found pleasure in visiting a baptism for common people" is the most likely one as they were "common people." 

Thank you so much for your reply.  I appreciate it.

Vicki


73
General questions / Need help with name on birth record
« skrivet: 2021-01-25, 22:46 »
Can anyone tell me the circled name is on the attached birth record?  It looks like it might be "Plate."

She is called Mademoiselle Sara ?  - is Mademoiselle used as a designation for an older married/unmarried woman?  She appears on a later household record as living with the family so I'm trying to understand what relationship she might have with them, if any.

Annerstad-G-CI-2-1751-1814-Image-21-Page-35   
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30809?image=21

Thanks for your help,

Vicki

74
Thank you, Leif.

Good point.  :) 

Vicki

75
Thank for this information, Yvonne!  I was just writing you with a synopsis of my work when you responded - so will copy it here... I'll see if I can find the headings but I believe you are correct as I've seen her birth year listed as 1737 on the household record which would fit in with the 1752 tax record.

Hi Yvonne,

It seems likely that Sigrid Jönsdotter is the sister of my ancestor Jöns Jönsson.  You already pointed out that she is a witness to the birth of one of Jöns children. The early Sickinge household record fits in well with what I've been able to find so far in the tax records also.

It seems too that she may also be the daughter of the widow Margreta - as listed in the tax records.  However, she couldn't be the biological daughter - maybe she was a daughter born to her husband's previous wife (?) as Margreta was born in 1714 and Sigrid was born in 1712.  Would they list a previous wife's child as their daughter in the tax records?

The daughter Sigrid is listed in the tax records between 1733 and 1739.  After that, both Sigrid and Margaret  seem to disappear.  But, there is a Jöns Pärsson in Sickinge with a wife in 1744 through 1754 - I think the wife was Sigrid and that they were still there.  However, they are gone in 1756.  And I have no idea where they went. 

Also the widow Margreta is a gone from Sickinge after 1740.  If she is the same person (and it does appear that she is) as in the Ryssby parish marriage record in 1758, I have no idea where she was between 1740 and 1758.  I think that she is not my ancestor and I should be looking for previous wife.

I've done some checking in Ljungby, Kånna, Annerstad and Ryssby for additional children, death records, estate inventories, but have not found anything more on this family.  Not sure where to look next.  Any more ideas or am I at the end of the road with this one?  As always I'm very happy to check out any clues and am very appreciative of your help.

So that's how I've spent my last two days!  :)

Thanks again,

Vicki

76
Attached is a 1754 baptismal record.  It begins at the bottom of the left hand page and is continued at the top of right hand page.

Ljungby (G) C:1 (1752-1815) Image: 7 Page: 7
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30488?image=7

It begins:

20 Jan 1754 is baptised Jonas Persson of Sickinge. Father is Jöns Persson.  Mother is Sigrid Jönsdotter.

Wouldn't his son's name be Jonas Jönsson, not Persson? 

Do I assume this is an error?

Thanks,

Vicki

77
Can anyone help with the circles (words or abbreviations) on the two attached records?  I'm trying to understand the relationship this person (Karin?) has to this family.

The first is from an early household record (1750's)

ArkivDigital: Ljungby (G) AI:1 (-1792) Image: 59 Page: 107
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18851?image=59

The other is from 1752 tax record in Sickinge, Ljungby

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-59-1752-Image-3040-Page-595
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840183c?image=3040&page=593

Thanks for your help,

Vicki

78
Thank you for your thoughts!  Good point, that since the other records in Ljungby don't begin until the 1750's, that should have been a clue in understanding when the household records likely began.

I had considered that Jöns may not have been born at Sickingle.  There are quite a few Jöns listed on the tax records there over the years, not sure which might have been him, if any.  He may have been a farmhand and his sister may have married there.

In 1733 there is a Sigrid listed but not listed as a daughter:

Riksgäldsarkiven-Riksens-ständers-kontor-Kammarkontoret-GIg-820-1733-Image-1470-Page-287
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v835384?image=1470&page=287

There is a daughter named Sigrid listed with the widow Margareta on the 1734 and 1735 tax records at Sickinge.  I didn't understand how she might fit in but had noted it.

Riksgäldsarkiven-Riksens-ständers-kontor-Kammarkontoret-GIg-821-1734-Image-1360-Page-265
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v835385?image=1360&page=265

Riksgäldsarkiven-Riksens-ständers-kontor-Kammarkontoret-GIg-822-1735-Image-1220-Page-235
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v835386?image=1220&page=235

I must admit I missed that possible connection provided in Sten's birth record which shows, along with Sigrid being from Sickinge, it even listed her patronymic name Jönsdotter! 

I will look into that connection too, so I thank you for your thoughts on this! 

If you notice any more on the records I reference above, I would welcome your further thoughts.

Thanks again,

Vicki

79
Hi Yvonne,

Thank you for looking at this interesting entry.

I don't think that is the family I'm looking for.  But it caught my attention as I have been following a Jöns Jönsson born ca 1720 in Sickinge, Ljungby back in time. 

I believe I am following the correct person because I know that Jöns Jönsson married Brithe Stensdotter 2 Jun 1745, the groom was from Sickinge, Ljungby and the bride was from Kånna Norrgård, Kånna.  They moved to Kånna Norrgård and their children were born there.

In tracing back the origins of Jöns, you can see that Jöns Jönsson is not married on the 1744 or 1745 tax record in Sickinge:

Kronobergs-läns-landskontor-G-EV-1-1744-Image-5270-Page-1131     
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v400709?image=5270&page=1129

Kronobergs-läns-landskontor-G-EV-2-1745-Image-4510-Page-1141     
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v400710?image=4510&page=1139

But Jöns Jönsson is married on the 1746 tax record:

Jöns Jönsson Kronobergs-läns-landskontor-G-EV-3-1746-Image-4720-Page-965.    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840177?image=2380&page=963

Of course, I don't know for sure that any of the other Jöns listed before him (and there are a couple ) in Sickinge are his father.

Another thing I know is that my Jöns Jönsson had a daughter named Margaret, born 1750 in Kånna Norrgård, Kånna.

I went back further and found that in 1718 and 1720 there was a Jöns listed in the tax records and Jordeböcker that might be the father of Jöns Jönsson. 

1718 tax record Jöns 1718 tax Sickinge:
Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-52-1718-Image-1490-Page-1107
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840176?image=1490&page=1105

Jordeböcker, Jordeböcker Kronobergs län, SE/RA/55201/55201.07/80 (1720)
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0055370_00425#?c=&m=&s=&cv=424&xywh=-2880%2C127%2C12466%2C4719

But, in 1721 there was only a widow Margareta and a Pär and Erich:

Jordeböcker, Jordeböcker Kronobergs län, SE/RA/55201/55201.07/83 (1723)
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0055372_00404#?c=&m=&s=&cv=403&xywh=3046%2C2637%2C2689%2C1115

However, none of these dates sync with the information from this household record and maybe I have been following the  the wrong Jöns altogether.  :)

I am curious of your thoughts on whether any this stuff might fit together or be somehow related!

Now that I understand how to use the Jordeböcker information, I'm using it to fill in all the gaps and even compare with the same tax years.  Very interesting!  Jörgen Tollesson sent me a very useful link for this!

As always I'm appreciate of any help and advice you have to offer! 

Thanks so much!

Vicki


80
Thanks very much, Yvonne! 

I appreciate your help again!

Vicki


81
Can anyone help me understand the attached household record in Sickinge, Ljungby.  It is the first available household record for Ljungby parish - dates are not specifically referenced on the exam record although the listing indicates that the records end in 1793.  You can see the families and birth years for them so you can get some idea.

Ljungby (G) AI:1 (-1792) Image: 59 Page: 107
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18851?image=59

It looks like it says:
       Ibm (same place which is Sickinge) Jöns Jönsson (with a note after it) - this name is crossed out

       Ibm Jöns J? born 1732
       wife Margareta born 1714
       son Jöns born 1751
       daughter Anna born 1753

Then the these people are crossed out.

Are the first 2 names the same name? Did the first man die and the widow remarried someone much younger?  It is quite confusing. 

Any help with interpreting this would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you,

Vicki

82
Can anyone tell me what the name circled on the attached 1740 tax record for Sickinge in Ljunby parish is?

Riksgäldsarkiven Riksens ständers kontor Kammarkontoret GIg:827 (1740) Image: 1550 Page: 301
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v835391?image=1550&page=299

Thanks for your help,

Vicki

83
Hi again Jörgen,

Just want to say thanks again for this information - I've used it to look up other land records also!

I really appreciate the link you sent and your instructions!

Vicki

84
Thanks very much! 

I'll see what I can find. :)

Vicki

85
Hi again,

Is Klippan a parish in Halland?  I can't seem to find it.

Thanks for your help,

Vicki

86
Thank you Ulf!

Interesting!  Not sure how this fits in yet.  :)

Thanks alot,

Vicki

87
Attached in tax record 1735 tax record in Norretz torp in Annerstad.   Can anyone help me interpret this record?

Riksgäldsarkiven Riksens ständers kontor Kammarkontoret GIg:822 (1735) Image: 1200 Page: 231
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v835386?image=1200&page=229

It looks like it is listing a wife named Maria with a note regarding the husband.  I'm am not at all sure what the notes says.
She is also listed alone on the previous tax record for 1734 with no other information (at least that I can tell).

Riksgäldsarkiven Riksens ständers kontor Kammarkontoret GIg:821 (1734) Image: 1340 Page: 261
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v835385?image=1340&page=259

Thanks for your help,

Vicki

88
Hi Martin,

Thank you so much for this great information!  You pose some very interesting questions!

It is often a struggle for me to understand these very early tax records so I really appreciate this information and the summary you provided.  Also, I don't know anything about the church books (Räkenskaper för kyrkan) and how to use them so this is very helpful.

I will take a close look at each of these records and document them for future reference in case we are able to learn more in the future to substantiate it.

It is all very interesting!

Thank you again for sending all of this,

Vicki


89
Thanks, Yvonne!  And Martin, I appreciate your honesty.  ;D

Yes, Martin had mentioned that he saw Kirstin Pärsdotter as a witness in Norretstorp - see 4.

Göta-Hovrätt--Advokatfiskalen-Jönköpings-län-F-EVIIAABA-372-1712-Image-970-Page-185
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v323935?image=970&page=185

You're correct that I don't know exactly when Bengt Larrson left or Bengt Torsson came, but I'm guessing he has a lot more tools to determine the timing.  :)

Thank you also for the clarification on the 1710 death record.  I like the way you summed it up! 

Citera
If Lars born 1714 is the same as Lars Lundman it should be your Bengt's Lars judging from the witnesses at baptism
  That is perfect!!

Well, I have a lot that I can document now and my main questions answered.

Thank you Yvonne, Lars-Ola and Martin!  You're great!

Vicki

90
Lars-Ola,

Since you are the expert here (and I'm not) no doubt you are correct when you say that the Lars Bengtsson born in Norrets torp in 1714 is probably not the son of Bengt Larsson, but more likely the son of your ancestor Bengt Torsson.  This is indicated both by the court record of the his purchase of the homestead in 1714 and also by the 1718-1723 household record in Annerstad that indicated the family have moved back to Angelstad. I have found no proof that Bengt Larsson and Kirstin Pärsdotter were living there in 1714.

Thanks for sending the information,

Vicki

91
Attached is a copy of a 1710 death record.  Can anyone confirm/complete my translation?

I believe it says:

Bengt Larsson's son i Uhlarp Lars ? ? ?, 17 July 1710, 12 weeks old. 

Thanks for your help,

Vicki

92
Thanks so much!  Is there any way to determine who this Lars is? 

I appreciate your help,

Vicki

93
Thank you, Martin!

I'm not trying to disprove your work at all - I'm just trying to ensure that I understand the information and back up my research with as much supporting documentation as I am able to.  Sometimes when I get too much information all at once I have difficulty sorting it all out.  However, I am very grateful for any information that I receive!  You have been very helpful.

I know that it doesn't at all prove this is his widow, but I'm trying to understand the information that is available since I have not found a death record for her or another marriage record for Lars after 1701/1702.  Since this Lars died in 1706 at age 78, he would have been quite old already (not that it couldn't have happened that way).  I don't have any way to tell who another Lars might have been who moved there.

Maybe the notes on the subsequent tax records will answer some of the questions I have.  Can you help me with the notes say for the following records? 

In 1704 there are a Lars and wife, similar to the record for 1703, they are supported by their children.  There is also a note on the far right that I'm not sure if relates to them or not.  Please correct me if I have not translated correctly.

Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Kronobergs län 1642-1820 (G) 46 (1704) Image: 1040 Page: 2165
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840170?image=1040&page=2165

In 1705 they are not listed, but I'm not sure what the last part of the entry says or even if it to them.

Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Kronobergs län 1642-1820 (G) 47 (1705) Image: 1070 Page: 1753
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840171?image=1070&page=1751

In 1707 again they are not listed but I don't really understand the last line in this record.

Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Kronobergs län 1642-1820 (G) 49 (1707) Image: 1890 Page: 1947
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840173?image=1890&page=1945

It seemed like it might be possible that, since Elin Larsdotter was married to Anders Jonsson, the Anders who is also listed would indicate the daughter and son-in-law that are supporting him.  I could very easily misinterpret the information and would appreciate any correction.

Anyway, thanks again for your help,

Vicki

94
Can anyone tell me what the circled word is on the attached death 1707 death record?

Angelstad (G) CI:1 (1697-1747) Image: 51 Page: 91
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30821?image=51

Thanks for your help,

Vicki

95
Lars-Ola, First I want to apologize for addressing you as Lars instead of Lars-Ola.   I guess I had "Lars" on my brain.

Lars-Ola, Yvonne and Martin (and anyone else who may be following this discussion),

While some pieces seem to fit, others don't. I haven't updated anything in my tree yet so today I would like to ask questions one at a time to better understand what I have here.  It may seem simplistic but is the easiest way for me to understand step by step and be able to move forward with this research.  So, your patience is much appreciated!

Do you agree that the Lars b. in 1709 is the same Lars as listed on the death record in 1710?

28 Dec 1709 birth record Uhlarp, Angelstad (note that a witness Anders in Östenstorp was present at his baptism)
Angelstad-G-CI-1-1697-1747-Image-59-Page-107
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30821?image=59

17 Jul 1710 death record Uhlarp, Angelstad
Angelstad (G) CI:1 (1697-1747) Image: 62 Page: 113
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30821?image=62

Thanks for your help,

Vicki


96
Hi again Lars,

Thank you for this additional information.  I have finally finished reviewing all the information today and know that more research is needed.

It is not at all surprising that you are questioning whether Lars born in Norretstorp in 1714 is part of this family as I'm not comfortable with that either.  There are still questions that need to be answered.  Are there 2 Lars Bengtssons?  Did the first Lars b. 1709 die in 1710?  IWe know there is a Lars Bengtsson still living per the 1718-1723 household record for Romoborna Norrgård in Annerstad. 

There is a gap between the time the last child was born in Angelstad and the first child was born in Annerstad.  Maybe that is when Maria was born, but I have not been able to find her birth record.  That also could have been when another son Lars was born.  The Lars in Norretstorp who was born to a Bengt was the only fit I could find, BUT there are many reasons to question it.  First of all, there is no indication that they moved there in particular, but, if not, where were they living during that time gap?

I'm so glad you wrote.  I have many questions and I am not sure where to start. It all seems a bit disconnected at the moment.  Tomorrow I will take another look.

If you find anything further to prove or disprove this piece,  I would be very interested.  The information from the church books and court cases has been much more helpful than the tax records with this particular family. 

As always, your help is much appreciated.

Thanks again,

Vicki

97
Lars-Ola,

Thank you again for sharing the information on the court case of 1706 that names the father Lars Bengtsson and the relationship to his son Bengt Larsson and to his son-in-law Anders Jonsson, the husband of Bengt's sister Elin Larsdotter. 

From what I understand, in 1706, after the death of the father Lars Bengtsson, the widow Elin Månsdotter sued the son Bengt Larsson and son-in-law (Anders Jonsson) for an unpaid debt from 24 years prior.  This claim was contested by the son and son-in-law on the basis that more than the allowable 20 years had passed since the debt was undertaken by the father Lars Bengtsson. 

These court cases are always very interesting, so hopefully I understand the essence of it. It really proves that nothing ever really changes.  :)

Thanks again,

Vicki


98
I agree.  :)

Thanks again for your help,

Vicki

99
Hi Martin,

Occasionally I have found an error so want to make sure that is not the case.  Have you found a death record for her?  Maybe I missed it.

Would you mind taking a look at the tax records for 1703 and 1704?  Maybe I have misinterpreted them.

Thanks for your help!

Vicki


100
Hi Yvonne and Martin,

The information you've both sent is really helpful!  I am currently looking at the following part and have some questions in regard to the item I have highlighted:

Citera
The connection to Östenstorp is possible, Bengt Larsson has a hustru Elin in Östenstorp many times as witness, a sister?

Anders Jonsson in Östenstorp has hustru Kirstin Persdotter in Ularp as witness in the year 1700.
In 1742 hustru Elin in Östenstorp dies, 90 years old, wife of Anders Jonsson.
1698 Anders Jonsson from Rataryd was married to Elin Larsdotter in Östenstorp.
In 1695 there is no Lars in Östenstorp
In 1701 Lars wife is listed, and there is a note about her, unreadable.. about being poor (and probably old).
In 1702, Lars in Östenstorp has become a widow.

I continued looking at the tax records for Östenstorp after 1702 and this is what I found:

In 1703 there is a Lars and wife with a note which I believe indicates they are being supported by the children - it looks like his wife is still alive?

Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Kronobergs län 1642-1820 (G) 45 (1703) Image: 1160 Page: 1281
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840169?image=1160&page=1281

In 1704 there a Lars and wife, again with a note similar to the last, they are supported by their children.  There is also a note on the far right that I'm not sure if relates to them or not.

Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Kronobergs län 1642-1820 (G) 46 (1704) Image: 1040 Page: 2165
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840170?image=1040&page=2165

In 1705 they are not listed, but I'm not sure what the last part of the entry says or does it even relate to them?

Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Kronobergs län 1642-1820 (G) 47 (1705) Image: 1070 Page: 1753
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840171?image=1070&page=1751

In 1707 again they are not listed but I don't really understand the last line in this record.

Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Kronobergs län 1642-1820 (G) 49 (1707) Image: 1890 Page: 1947
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840173?image=1890&page=1945

Also I didn't find a death record for a wife from Östenstorp within the 1701-1702 timeframe and Lars wasn't listed as a widower on his death record in 1706.

There is a death record for a widow in Östenstorp in 1707 that I think may be his widow. but I'm not sure what the first word is on the death record:

Angelstad (G) CI:1 (1697-1747) Image: 51 Page: 91
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30821?image=51

It is very possible that I have interpreted something incorrectly so please correct me if I have made an error!

Thank you so much for your help,

Vicki

101
Thank you, Martin!

That is great news!  I really appreciate you sending this!

Would you believe I'm still going through everything from yesterday? :)  There is so much helpful information in there.
I'm documenting what I've learned and making notes about things that still need proof/clarification.  It takes a while but I'm sure you know that! :) 

Thanks again for your help!

Vicki


102
Thank you for this information - it is very interesting.    I definitely agree with you about the witnesses but thought maybe it was because they were now living in a different place (Annerstad) from where they were living when the first Lars was born (Angelstad) - in between places. 

Either way, it does look like one of these is Lars Lundman.  If it is the first one, though, that means the death record I found would no longer fit.  Not sure what to do with that.  :)

I'll note all of this and move on again as I still don't have anything definitive proving that either Lars Bengtsson is Lars Lundman!

Thanks so much for your continued help,

Vicki

103
Hi again Yvonne,

I found a possibility for the other Lars Bengtsson. It was the only Lars born to a Bengt (in either Angelstad or Annerstad) within the timeframe between the birth of the first Lars Bengtsson in Dec 1709 in Angelstad and next birth record for his brother Anders in Aug 1716 in Annerstad.

Annerstad (G) CI:1 (1708-1750) Image: 12 Page: 19
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30808?image=12

As far as I can tell it says:

3 Feb 1714 is born Bengts son in Norretstorp, baptised ?, called Lars. Witnesses Jöns Knutsson? in Öyarp, Pehr in Norrett? and other names and places I'm not sure of.

Usually the birth records of Bengt Larsson's children contain his full name instead of only Bengt.  Not sure if that makes a difference.  An interesting thing though, is that I had noted the following when trying to determine whether Lars Bengtsson was the same person as Lars Lundman:
Citera
I found a 1741 marriage record for Lars and tax records for at least the years 1744-1777 but in all cases he was listed as Lars Lundman (or Lungman). I also found his widow's death record in Angelstad in 1785.  If this is his death record, then I don't think Lars Bengtsson and Lars Lundman are the same man.  Lars Bengtsson was born 1709 and this Lars Lundman, based on the death record, would have been born ca 1714, although it is still possible I guess.

We know there was another Lars Bengtsson because he appears on the 1718-1723 household records and it also appears he was very young at that time. 

You had also previously written that
Citera
a wife Maria in Marsjö in Annerstad (his supposed sister) was a witness at the baptism of his daughter Ingeborg in 1751, and Lars Lundman's wife in Angelstad was a witness at the baptism o Maria's in Marsjö son Abraham in 1743. They had a brother Abraham that died young. I suppose it might be possible to find some of the estate valuations at the siblings' deaths where a guardian could be named Lars something? Otherwise you might have to keep his whereabouts in your notes for the time being.

So is it possible that this Lars Bengtsson is Lars Lundman?  :)

I still have not been able to find Maria's birth record but obviously she existed!  And I had already forgotten about Abraham  :-[.  Good thing I keep all my notes...

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this.

Thanks again for your help,

Vicki

104
Yvonne,

Thank you for this! I have not found a birth record yet for Maria either. but will continue looking for her birth record and another Lars (maybe he is the Lars Bengtsson Lundman).

In regard to another Lars, I had the same thought when I reviewed the 1718-1723 household record.  When I had initially looked for a death record for Lars, I had originally assumed he was still alive after 1718 and therefore did not find one.  Yesterday I went through all the records from the beginning and only found it at that time.  When I first saw that household record you sent I was a little puzzled by the way Lars' name appears on it - it looks like it was originally written, then crossed out, then added again. Also, there is no age given for as there was for the other children. 

Also, I have a couple other children for Bengt Larsson and Kirstin that aren't listed on that 1718-1723 household record:
    Anders Bengtsson - b 2 Aug 1716  d. 11 Sept 1716

    Annerstad-G-CI-1-1708-1750-Image-16-Page-27
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30808?image=16
 
    Abraham Bengtsson (this name really doesn't seem to fit) b. 28 Sep 1718  d. 6 May 1719 - let me know what you think.

    Annerstad-G-CI-1-1708-1750-Image-19-Page-33
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30808?image=19 (bottom of right hand page 33 and continues on page 34)

As I'm still going through all the information from yesterday I have a few questions but am holding off on those in case I find the answers later in the discussion.  This is great fun and I'm learning so much.   It is really a thrill to work with such knowledgeable and dedicated researchers!

Thanks again for all of the ongoing help,

Vicki


105
Yvonne and Martin and Lars-Ola,

I cannot keep up with your posts quick enough! 

Hi Lars-Ola! and thank you for this information!  It is nice to hear from you again!

And, Martin, I'm very glad to hear that you have benefitted also from this discussion!

I really appreciate all that everyone does to help me.  Yvonne seems to get me to a place where others can also jump in, which I'm sure I wouldn't be able to do without her help.  That is very much appreciated.  It is difficult when you get that far back in time and really need to know a lot more than I do!  So your help is precious! 
 
I just found a 17 Jul 1710 death record for a son of Bengt Larsson in Ularp (named Lars).  He was 12 weeks old.

Is this the same Lars Bengtsson that was born 28 Dec 1709?  That would make him at least 6 months old but I realize the date may be inaccurate.  If it is him, then he definitely would not be the same person as Lars Lundman, the bell ringer and organist.....which was an old open questions I had - I was never able to definitively link the name Lars Bengtsson with Lars Lundman.    I notice that Martin lists him as Lars Bengtsson with no mention of Lundman.

Angelstad (G) CI:1 (1697-1747) Image: 62 Page: 113
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30821?image=62

Maybe this will put the question to rest. :) 

Thanks for your continued help!

Vicki

106
Thank you for clarifying!

Good practice anyway.  :)

Thanks so much for you ongoing help!

Vicki

107
Ok, looks like that Lars Bengtsson died 15 Apr 1700 at age 2 1/2 years in Ryia. 

Angelstad-G-CI-1-1697-1747-Image-17-Page-23
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30821?image=17

I'm not clear on whether this person is related in any way.  Yvonne, you mentioned yesterday that "They also had a son Lars there before they moved to Annerstad after 1709." 

Forgive me for being so far behind you two!  :)  I work slowly.  :)

Thanks for your help!

Vicki

108
I'm still looking through the birth/marriage/death records in Angelstad and found this record - it looks like a baptism record for a Lars Bengtsson in 1697 in Ryia(?), but there's a note that was erased I think. 

Angelstad-G-CI-1-1697-1747-Image-9-Page-7
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30821?image=9

It is odd because the record is dated 19 Sept 1697 which is the same year that Bengt Larsson's first child named Per was born on 28 Nov 1697 in Ularp.

Does this have anything to do with this family?

Thank for your help,

Vicki


109
Thank you both for this additional information!  What an interesting discussion!  I have a lot to do.   :)

Thanks so much,

Vicki

110
Thank you both for the very interesting and helpful information!

I will take a look at all of it!

Your help if very much appreciated.  Although I have tried researching the court records, unfortunately, I have not be successful since I still have difficulty with the handwriting and don't speak Swedish! 

Thank you again,

Vicki


111
Hi again Yvonne,

There is a 1706 death record for a Lars in Östenstorp at age 78 which puts his birth year ca. 1628. This would seem to be  Bengt Larsson's father!  If I am correct, then how did you know where he was living and that this is him? 

Angelstad (G) CI:1 (1697-1747) Image: 48 Page: 85     
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30821?image=48

I have also found a death record for a 6 week old child of Bengt Larsson in Ularp in Dec 1703.  There is a birth record for a son Sven born in November 1703 so I think this is a death record for Sven. 

ArkivDigital: Angelstad (G) CI:1 (1697-1747) Image: 38 Page: 65
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30821?image=38

Tomorrow I will search for more!     :)

Thank you again for your help!

Vicki

112
Thank you, Yvonne!

I will follow up!

I didn't have access to a 1697 tax record so that is very interesting.  You definitely have the right people.  I even see his patronymic name of Larson!  Wonderful!  Thank you for this!

I did find a Bengt listed in 1701, but this Bengt is being supported by his children so must be the "old" one, correct?  Am I looking at the wrong record for my Bengt (Larsson) in Ularp?

Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Kronobergs län 1642-1820 (G) 43 (1701) Image: 1280 Page: 1621
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840167?image=1280&page=1619 

The index at the beginning of the first book of household exam records shows the following places for Ularp:  Drängagård, Mellangård, Norrgård, Skattegård and Södergård.  I am not sure which one it is, I haven't been able to find that many different listings in the tax records for Uhlarp/Ularp, but I would have thought they would all be listed together in the tax records.  A couple of the birth records look like they have more information besides just Ularp but I can't read it.  Can you tell me if it specifies which place in Ularp?

Britta Bengsdotter's birth record 26 Mar 1700:
Angelstad-G-CI-1-1697-1747-Image-17-Page-23
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30821?image=17

Pehr Bengtsson's birth record 28 Nov 1697:
Angelstad-G-CI-1-1697-1747-Image-10-Page-9
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30821?image=10

Sven Bengtsson's birth record 18 Nov 1703:
Angelstad (G) CI:1 (1697-1747) Image: 38 Page: 65
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30821?image=38

I will look for information on the other Lars who died 1706 in Östenstorp in Angelstad!

Thank you for this very helpful information! 

Vicki

113
Hi Yvonne,

I had been trying to see if I can find Bengt Larsson (Britta Bengtsdotter's father) starting with the tax records around 1700 when Britta was born in Uhlarp. The available tax records are 1695, next one is 1701.  There is a Bengt there during that timeframe, but it is a Bengt that is very old in 1694 (over 90) and, in fact, is being supported by his children in 1701 so doesn't fit.  With Brita and many of her siblings being born there between 1695 and 1709, it seems strange that Bengt (Larsson, Britta's father) doesn't seem to be taxed in Uhlarp.  I had thought maybe the "old" Bengt may have been related.  But there are many Bengts and many Brittas.  That is still possible I suppose.

I looked into the Bengt with wife Brita and son Nils in Kärringe Norregård in Angelstad (on page 165).  That was a Bengt Bengtsson, born in 1732 which was before Britta Bengtsson was born at Uhlarp in 1700, so it it quite confusing. 

I think I've found the family after they moved to Romborna Norrgård in Annerstad sometime after 1709.  Bengt died there in 1751 so I'll go through those tax records to see if there are any more clues as to where he originally came from.  I'll likely have more questions. :)

Thanks again for your help! 

Vicki

114
Hi again!

I noticed that family and wondered but was puzzled about the place name (because it wasn't Uhlarp).  Thank you for this information!  I will look into this information and see what I can find.

Thanks again,

Vicki

115
Thank you again, Yvonne!

As you can see, I am going through all the available tax records looking for Britta Bengtsdotter's father.  I know that she and several siblings were born in Uhlarp in Angelstad between 1697 and 1707, inclusive and that their father's name is Bengt Larsson. This "old" Bengt cannot be her father.  But, I'm wondering if he possibly is her grandfather?  That would mean that he had a son Lars - for which I have no proof thus far.  There is a household record for Ularp Angelstad that shows a Bengt with a wife named Britta, maybe my Britta was named after her...unfortunately, there is very little information contained in this record except that they have a son Nils which fits with the name Nils you find on a later tax record where the  "children are feeding the parents."   May be only a coincidence.   The names are crossed out.

Angelstad (G) AI:1 (-1793) Image: 137 Page: 25
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18231?image=137,

I believe I've found Bengt, her father, later in the tax records in Romborna Norrgård in Annerstad during the years the later children were born (but I haven't finished looking into all these records yet).  I'm sure I'll have more questions on these.

I wholeheartedly appreciate all the help I receive with these notes - it makes all the difference in determining whether or not I might be on the right track.  If it makes sense I'll keep it for later when I may be able to prove it or disprove it!

Thanks again for all your help,

Vicki

116
Thank you, Yvonne!

I appreciate your ongoing help!

Vicki

117
Attached is a 1694 tax record and am wondering if someone can confirm or correct my understanding of the circled note on the record for Uhlarp.

I think it says that the man Bengt is over 90 years old.

Your help would be appreciated!

Thank you,

Vicki

118
Attached is a 1680 tax record for Ularp in Angelstad that I am having trouble understanding.

Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Kronobergs län 1642-1820 (G) 29 (1680) Image: 1270 Page: 962
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840153?image=1270&page=962

It looks like there is a name Bengt ? in the left column - not sure what this represents and/or why it appears there.

After that it says Uhlarp Jön and wife and ? widower(?)   3 people are being taxed

Any help with this would be much appreciated.

Thank you,

Vicki

119
Attached is an entry from the first available household exam record for Ularp Skattegård in Angelstad parish.  The names have been crossed out and there are no birth years or examination marks associated with this entry.  Can anyone tell me what the circled note below the names says? 

Angelstad (G) AI:1 (-1793) Image: 137 Page: 251
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18231?image=137


I believe the names are:
  Bengt Bengtsson
  Wife Britta
  Son Nils

Please correct me if I have interpreted any of the names incorrectly.

Thank you for your help,

Vicki

120
Thank you for your help again!  Your information is very helpful!

As I continue to review my research (in hopes of learning more) and in looking more closely at the records, I noticed these variations in spelling and wondered if I had misinterpreted them, possibly mixing up families.

It is a relief to know they are the same name! 

Thank you so much for responding again!

Vicki   

121
Thank you very much for this information!  Another reason I thought (and hoped) that Margareta might be the widow of Jöns is because one of his granddaughters is named Margareta.  She is the daughter of Jöns son who is also named Jöns. 

I'll take a look at all the helpful information you sent. 

Thank you so much!

Vicki

122
General questions / Need help with name on marriage record
« skrivet: 2021-01-08, 21:15 »
In reviewing the research on one of my families, I'd like to confirm the circled names listed on several records: a 1700 birth record, a 1723 marriage record and 1701 tax record to make sure they are correct (and the same as each other).

1. 1700 birth record for Britta B?dotter at Ularp, Angelstad - I thought it was Bengtsdotter but could it be something else?:

Angelstad-G-CI-1-1697-1747-Image-17-Page-23
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30821?image=17

2. 1723 marriage record for a Per Arvidsson and a Britta B?   Again, I thought her patronymic name was Bengtsdotter. 

Tannåker-F,-G-C-1-1688-1788-Image-99-Page-191
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v32417?image=99

3. 1701 tax record for Britta's parents in Ularp, Angelstad parish lists two similar names - a B? and a Bengt.  The first line shows a B? and wife and a Nils and wife (I believe) and the second line shows a Bengt but doesn't indicate a wife or if any tax is paid - also there is a note which I'm not sure about.  Is it possible the B? is the correct name instead of Bengt?   

ArkivDigital: Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Kronobergs län 1642-1820 (G) 43 (1701) Image: 1280 Page: 1621
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840167?image=1280&page=1619

I hope this makes sense!  I want to make sure that I'm not mixing up similar names (and thereby mixing up families) as I move forward.  Especially on the tax record, these two "B" names look very similar to me.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks again,

Vicki 

123
Yes, it is true what you say.

The reason I am trying to establish the marital status of Jöns in 1719 is because his wife is listed on the 1718 tax record and on the next available tax record in 1723 Jöns is not listed but there is a widow Margreta.  I don't know if this was his wife or not but would be something further to pursue in my research.

1718
Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-52-1718-Image-1490-Page-1107
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840176?image=1490&page=1105

1723
Riksgäldsarkiven Riksens ständers kontor Kammarkontoret GIg:810 (1722-1723) Image: 1530 Page: 297
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v835374?image=1530&page=295

Also, I have found inconsistencies with the name of the widow.

On the 1724 tax record the widow is called Märtha, who I originally thought might have been a different person altogether, but in subsequent years (from 1725-1729 which is the last record on which her name appears), she was again listed as Margreta, therefore I think it is all the same person.

1724
Riksgäldsarkiven-Riksens-ständers-kontor-Kammarkontoret-GIg-811-1724-Image-2090-Page-411
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v835375?image=2090&page=411

1725
Riksgäldsarkiven-Riksens-ständers-kontor-Kammarkontoret-GIg-812-1725-Image-1950-Page-381
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v835376?image=1950&page=381

1729
Riksgäldsarkiven-Riksens-ständers-kontor-Kammarkontoret-GIg-816-1729-Image-1810-Page-355
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v835380?image=1810&page=355

At this point, I'm only able to document what I find in the tax records as there are no available birth/death/marriage or estate inventories available that early.  It will hopefully be helpful information later at some point.  :)

Thanks so much for your help,

Vicki

124
Thank you for clarifying my translation and for this very helpful and interesting information that I have not previously encountered in my research.

It is difficult to understand all of this so I appreciate the help from both of you!

Thanks again,

Vicki

125
Thank you for this information!  I wondered if it included Jöns wife in particular.  Now I believe it does.

It is really challenging to interpret some of these records so your help is really appreciated.

Thanks again,

Vicki

126
Thanks very much for this! 

But, this is confusing - I only see four people listed in total.  Am I missing something here? 

Again, thank you for your help,

Vicki

127
Attached is a 1723 tax record for Sickinge in Ljungby parish.  Will someone confirm/correct my understanding of this record?  There is a 4 year gap since the last available tax record so your help would be appreciated very much.

The 1723 tax record lists:
Widow Margareta
Dräng Oluf, Carl(?) (there is only 1 mark but it looks like there are two of them)
Looks like Pär and Erik or ?  (but again there is just one mark)
Pigan Britta
Soldier Liung?'s wife?

Riksgäldsarkiven Riksens ständers kontor Kammarkontoret GIg:810 (1722-1723) Image: 1530 Page: 297
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v835374?image=1530&page=295

Again, your help is much appreciated.   

Thanks again,

Vicki

128
Can you tell me what these headings say?  The "4" and "3" appear in the last 2 columns. This should clear things up, hopefully.

Riksgäldsarkiven Riksens ständers kontor Kammarkontoret GIg:808 (1719-1720) Image: 2390 Page: 469
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v835372?image=2390&page=467

Thanks again for your help!

Vicki


129
Great!  Thanks very much.  Now, I need to figure out which Jöns is "my" Jöns, if any!   ;D

I keep going through the records to see if, by chance, there happens to be an entry with a last name.  Every once in a while I get lucky!

Thanks again for your help,

Vicki
 

130
Thanks for your response.  I didn't try for the headings this time as I have had almost no success with it.  They are not consistent between years or parishes so it has become far too cumbersome even though it would be helpful.  So I guess I must be misinterpreting what those counts mean - now it appears it probably 4 total, with 3 of them being two 'drängar' and a 'piga'.   Usually I can reason it out, but not this one.  :)

Thanks again for your help. I always appreciate it!

Vicki


131
Thank you!  I appreciate your help with this. 

It is interesting.  There are a 4 and a 3 listed - so I am assuming this is for 4 people (adults?) and 3 others.  Who are the 4?  Can you tell from this if one of the 4 is the wife of Jöns?  If so, who might the other 2 be?  Or am I reading it incorrectly?

Thanks again for your help!

Vicki

132
Attached is a 1695 tax record for Sickinge, Ljungby that I am having trouble understanding.

My interpretation is that at Sickinge there are living the following people:

Erik and wife and Jöns and wife (4 adults)
(another) Jöns (with wife?) and a note which I can't understand - does it have to do with his wife?
(another) Jöns which could be a soldier?

1695 tax Sickinge Ljungby Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-42-1695-Image-1660-Page-1273
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840166?image=1660&page=1271

Thanks very much for any help with this,

Vicki

133
Attached are two tax records I need your help with. 

The first is for 1718 in Sickinge, Ljungby.  I cannot tell what the circled note says.

Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Kronobergs län 1642-1820 (G) 52 (1718) Image: 1490 Page: 1107
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840176?image=1490&page=1105

The second is for 1719 in sickinge, Ljungby.  I think the same note is repeated at the top of the tax item.  I also need help interpreting  the record itself.  It appears that all the people are listed together as one family, is that correct?  If so, there are 4 adults - would that be Jöns and wife and Märta(?) and ?.  The 3 being Dr Anders and pig and a Dr J? Jönsson?  It is very confusing.  Who are the 4 and who are the 3?

Riksgäldsarkiven-Riksens-ständers-kontor-Kammarkontoret-GIg-808-1719-1720-Image-2390-Page-469
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v835372?image=2390&page=467

Your help would be very much appreciated!

Thanks so much,

Vicki

134
Great!  Thanks so much!  I hadn't seen it that way before but couldn't find anything else that seemed to fit. 

I appreciate your help!

Vicki

135
Can someone tell me what the Torpa place name on the attached 1712 birth record is?   It is repeated again on the next line but I still cannot tell what it is.  I thought it might be Skärvö but it looks to short for that.

Torpa (G) C:1 (1690-1747) Image: 66 Page: 127
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30192?image=66

Thanks so much for your help,

Vicki

136
Thank you!

Very interesting. 

Vicki

137
Attached is a 1701 tax record for a Bengt (and wife?).  It looks like they did not pay tax.  There is a note that I cannot read.
Can anyone tell me what it says? 

Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Kronobergs län 1642-1820 (G) 43 (1701) Image: 1280 Page: 1621
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840167?image=1280&page=1619

I'd really appreciate your help!

Thanks very much,

Vicki

138
Thank you very much!

This is interesting, and different from what I've ever seen before. 

I appreciate your help with this,

Vicki

139
General questions / Need help with 1763 birth record in Kånna
« skrivet: 2020-12-30, 00:40 »
Can anyone help me understand the attached 1763 birth record? 

This is what I think it says but there are some words that I don't recognize:

26 November (1763) was born ? 27 ? ? ? Isak Stensson and his ? wife Gunnil Persdotter's child named(?) Ingrid ? ? ? Anna Caiya Haberg. 

Kånna (G) C:1 (1743-1815) Image: 25 Page: 41
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30538?image=25

Was there only one baptismal sponsor? There was no further information listed.

Any help with this would be much appreciated!

Thank you,

Vicki

140
Thank you!  I would have never figured out the first name so I really appreciate your help!

Thanks again,

Vicki

141
Can anyone tell me what the name I've circled on this 1759 tax record is?  I apologize for the quality of the photo - it was the best one I could get. 

Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Kronobergs län 1642-1820 (G) 66 (1759) Image: 3430 Page: 679
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840190?image=3430&page=677

I have no idea what the first name is.  The patronymic name may be Stensson but am not sure.

Thank you for your help with this,

Vicki

142
Thank you very much!

Vicki

143
Can anyone confirm that patronymic name circled on the attached 1724 tax record?

Riksgäldsarkiven Riksens ständers kontor Kammarkontoret GIg:815 (1728) Image: 1690 Page: 329
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v835379?image=1690&page=327

It looks like it could be Knutsson but I'm not sure....

Your help would be very much appreciated! 

Vicki

144
General questions / Thankyou!
« skrivet: 2020-12-22, 15:57 »
Just want to send my best wishes during this holiday season to all the kind people who have been helping me so generously this year!

I hope you are well and wish you a healthy and happy 2021!

Thanks again,

Vicki

145
Can anyone help me with how to get started researching the court records?  How do you decide where to begin?

I am looking to learn the patronymic name of a Lars who first appears in the tax records for Miäla in Torpa in 1724 and is listed as Lars (with no patronymic name) through 1727.  From 1729 -1731 there is a Lars Pårsson listed.  I think that Lars Pårsson may be my ancestor, father of Per Larsson b. 1725 in Miäla and his brother Anders b. 1731 in Miäla.  But, I don't know whether two Lars are the same person or not.

I've not been able to find a marriage record for a Lars Pårsson and ? in Torpa that fits the place and time (also checking nearby parishes of Annerstad, Vrå and Odensiö). And, to complicate matters, there is a 1723 Torpa marriage record for a Lars Månsson from Skeen in Annerstad who married the daughter (Gunnil Giermundsdotter) of the previous Miäla taxpayer, Giermund, who is listed in the 1723 and 1724 Miäla tax records.  Much later, from 1744-1746 there is a Lars Månsson listed on the Miäla tax records.

The only children I have found who were born to a Lars between 1723 and 1731 in Miäla are:

Per Larsson born 26 Jan 1725 (my ancestor):
Torpa-G-C-1-1690-1747-Image-81-Page-157   
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30192?image=81

Anders Larsson born 30 Jul 1731 (Per’s brother as noted in Per’s estate inventory):
Torpa-G-C-1-1690-1747-Image-87-Page-169   
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30192?image=87

So I don’t know which Lars is the father of Per Larsson  – is it Lars Månsson or Lars Pårsson?   Lars Pårsson seems more likely based on the naming of the two children and because he was listed at Miäla at the time that Anders was born in 1731. But, this is not certain.

Now I would like to attempt the court records but have no idea where to begin.  Should I start with the records around 1723 or 1724 (around the time Lars first appeared in the tax records)?  I am totally lost here but am willing to learn how to search through these records. 

Do you think this too much to post on the Swedish Torpa board?

Any ideas on how and where to begin would be very helpful and very much appreciated!

Thank you so much for any help with this,

Vicki

146
Thank you very much!  I will look into Rodrick!

I appreciate your help!

Vicki

147
Can anyone tell me what the place name is on the attached birth record for Gunnil Rodricksdotter?

Torpa-G-C-1-1690-1747-Image-53-Page-103
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30192?image=53

Thank you for your help,

Vicki

148
Hi Yvonne,

Thank you for your comments.  They are very helpful 

I have not been able to find anything on Per's brother Anders Larsson other than a death record for him so far.  I would have liked to find a marriage record and children for him, but have not been successful so far.  I've looked at the baptismal sponsors for them but haven't learned anything more from it, unfortunately. 

he Torpa estate inventory records begin in 1758 but I have done some checking.  Nothing yet, but I will check further on that. 

I've also done a little research on the two marriages, trying to see if I can find further information on the husbands. 

It seems very possible to me that a daughter of the previous farmer, Giermund, would be married to the next person to be taxed after Giermund at Miäla was no longer listed.  In that case, the marriage between Lars Månsson and Gunnil Giermundsdotter seems to be the most likely, but still leaves me wondering about the names which don't fit the naming pattern in what I can tell so far.  I'm going to redouble my efforts on Per's brother Anders to see if I can find a marriage record and any children.  The date of their marriage also makes sense.

It is possible that the Lars that is listed after Giermund in the tax record is Lars Månsson but I don't know that for certain.
It is very interesting that Lars Månsson shows up much later (with his full name) in the tax records.  It is also very interesting that it is noted that his wife is crippled.   

With this in mind, before I give up on furthering this particular family line, I am going to look further into Lars Månsson and also look into the 1727 marriage of Ingier Giermundsdotter to Pehr Nilsson listed in the tax records at one point.

Thank you very much for taking a look.  It helps to rule out one of the potential parents, so I can focus more on the other.  It may be that Giermund and his daughters are the key here.  We'll see.  :)

Maybe I'll even make an attempt at the court books - but don't hold your breath.   ;D

Thanks again.  Your help is always very much appreciated,

Vicki

149
I've opened a separate post outlining my research I referenced above.

Thanks for any help with this!

Vicki

150
First, I apologize if this is something more than I should put here, but I'll give it try in case someone is willing to take to the time to read through it all.  I've to make it as concise as possible, so I appreciate any suggestions you can offer.

I am trying to determine which Lars is the father of my ancestor Pehr Larsson and his brother Anders Larsson who were born in Miäla (Torpa parish) in 1725 and 1731 respectively. These are the only two siblings I have found for this family.  It may be that they were from somewhere else and that there were more children earlier, but I have not found any children born after Anders.

Birth records
Pehr Larsson born 26 Jan 1725 Miäla, son of Lars, mother not listed - who is his father?
Torpa-G-C-1-1690-1747-Image-81-Page-157   
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30192?image=81

Anders Larsson born 30 July 1731, son of Lars, mother not listed
Torpa-G-C-1-1690-1747-Image-87-Page-169 
 https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30192?image=87

Household records for Miäla 1717-1723
On page 61 there is listed a Pehr (age 67) with wife Ingier (age 54) and son Jonas – may or may not be related to Per Larsson (maybe his grandfather? May be a stretch)
Torpa-G-AI-1-1717-1722-Image-41-Page-61.jpg
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v19646?image=41

On page 62 in Miala is listed a Giermund (age 57) with wife (age 33) a daughter Ingier (age 15 - crossed out with a note having to do with Skeen I think) and a son Giermund (erased?).   Further down on the page are listed the names Lars and wife Gunnil with no additional detail (no children).  I believe that Giermund and Ingier are Gunnil’s parents.
Torpa-G-AI-1-1717-1722-Image-42-Page-63.jpg
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v19646?image=42

Marriage record
If the parents were married in Torpa (and I know that is a big if), there are a couple possibilities:

The following marriage could explain the family’s connection to Miäla.  However, the names Måns and Gunnil don’t seem to fit into the naming pattern (although I only know of two children: Per and Anders for this family).  It would also fit with the timing of their first child Per.
23 Dec 1723 marriage between Drangan Lars Månsson from Skeen (Annerstad parish) and Pigan Gunnil Giermundsdotter in Miäla.
Torpa-G-C-1-1690-1747-Image-98-Page-191
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30192?image=98

This Lars would seem to explain the son named Per but the marriage took place at least a year after son Per was born (which is possible I realize) but there is no direct connection to Miäla.
1726 marriage between Drangan Lars Pehrsson of Abbeshult (Vrå parish) and Pigan Ingeborg Johansdotter in Gashult (Torpa parish)
Torpa-G-C-1-1690-1747-Image-99-Page-193
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30192?image=99

I also realize there may have been more than one marriage here – there is a six year age difference between the siblings.  Maybe there are 2 different fathers named Lars?

Tax records for Miäla – not sure how to tell if they are married, it seems only the husbands are listed
1723 Giermund
1724 Sven and Lars, Giermund and Gumme
1725 Sven, Lars and Jonas (or Jöns)
1726 Sven, Lars and p. Ingierd
1727 Sven, Lars, Gumme
1728 Sven, Bengt, Per Nilsson (there is a 1727 marriage record for a Pehr Nilsson who married174 an Ingier Giermundsdotter in Miäla -probably the sister of Gunnil Giermundsdotter).
1729 Sven, Lars Persson (this is the first time a last name is given)
1730 Sven w/daughter Brita, Lars Persson
1731 Sven Bengtsson, p. Kirstin, Lars Persson
1732 -1740 Lar is listed without a last name
1744 Sven Bengtsson, Lars Månsson (wife crippled) and son Per (under age 15)  The Per Larsson whose father I am trying to identify would have been 19 years old in 1744.
1745 Sven Svensson, Lars Månsson (wife crippled) and son Per. And a Jöns Larsson.
1746 Sven Svensson, Oluf Svensson, p. Kierstin, Lars Mansson (with a note – did he move out?, and a Jöns Larsson.
         Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-53-1746-Image-2440-Page-977
         https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840177?image=2440&page=977
1747 No Lars is listed.

Death record
I found the following record (is this the death record for the wife of Lars Månsson?) dated 28 Mar 1747, buried 6 April:
Torpa-G-C-1-1690-1747-Image-121-Page-233
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30192?image=121

Does anyone have any suggestions or comments for what they feel is likely or unlikely here?  At first glance, it seemed like the Lars Mansson who married Gunnil Giermundsdotter was the likely father based on marriage date and timing of birth of Per in January 1725.  But, the first time Lars Mansson is listed with full name in the tax records there was in 1744 (not that an earlier Lars (with no last name) could not have been him also).  That a Lars Persson appeared in the tax records there for three years (1729-1731) is also confusing as Per’s brother Anders was born in 1731. 

It’s a head scratcher.  😊

Not sure where to go next with this as I’ve looked through all the records I can think of.  Maybe it is another one I’ll have to set aside for now.  But, I’m open for suggestions!

Thanks so much for your help!

Vicki

151
Hi again!

Thank you very much.  This is very interesting.  I am now looking into another of my "dead ends" trying to determine which Lars is the father of my ancestor Per Larsson.  After each family I work on, I learn more and review those I had previously given up on.   :)

Later this morning, I will be posting a note showing what I have found so far and asking for comments or any advice on how to move forward or whether I can based on available information.  At this point it is too much for me to try to put it on the Swedish Torpa page, but I may be able to do that once I know where to go from here.

As always, I very much appreciate any help with this!

Thanks again,

Vicki

152
Correction - the tax year is 1744 (not 1741).

Vicki

153
General questions / Need help with 1741 tax record for Torpa
« skrivet: 2020-12-10, 20:08 »
Can anyone tell me what the circled notes say on the attached 1741 tax record?  I think the second note has to do with Lars'  son Per being over or under age 15 but am not sure.

Thanks so much for any help with this!

Vicki

154
Thank you!

You were so right - there are very, very many soldiers with the name Frimodig!  I had no idea which would be the correct only. 

Your help is very much appreciated! 

Thanks again,

Vicki

155
Thank you very much for this very interesting information! 

I really appreciate your help,

Vicki

156
Can anyone help me with the names I've circled on the attached 1717 Torpa marriage record?

Torpa-G-C-1-1690-1747-Image-96-Page-187
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v19646?image=65

I think the marriage date relates to Epiphany so I believe the marriage was in January 1717.  The marriage is between the soldier Pehr ? and Miss Gunnil ? in Sunntorpa.

Any help would be much appreciated!

Vicki

157
Thank you so much!  I had no idea that the place (Skeen) was in Annerstad parish!  I could see that the first letter of the bride's first and last name were the same and that it might be a G.  But I couldn't figure out "Giermundzdotter" at all!

I really appreciate your help!

Vicki

158
Attached is a copy of a 1723 Torpa marriage record that I need some help with.

I think it says:

On St. Thomas Day (which I think is 21 December) were married Lars Mánsson from ? and Miss ? ? from Miäla.

Can anyone tell me what the circled names are?

Torpa-G-C-1-1690-1747-Image-98-Page-191
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30192?image=98

Your help would be very much appreciated!

Thank you,

Vicki

159
Yvonne and Lars-Ola,

I guess I've gone about as far as I can on this particular family for now.  Thank you both very much for all of help you given to me!  Without it I never would have learned so much and it has all been so interesting!!

If you come across anything further that would help me determine if Kierstin Jonsdotter's father is Jon Nannasson (or someone else) , I hope you will update this topic because, of course, I would be very interested in learning what you've found!

Thank you again,

Vicki

160
Thanks very much for this!

I appreciate it,

Vicki

161
The page is found at

Annerstad-G-AI-1-1718-1723-Image-77-Page-141
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18248?image=77

Thanks!

Vicki

162
Attached is a 1719-1723 Annerstad household record for Nils and Bengta.  There is name crossed out (looks like it could be Per) but is not designated as a son or daughter but instead with letter g? in front of it.  There is also a note that looks like it says ? in Vrå but I am not sure of the first word.

Can anyone tell me what this says and would it apply only to that one person?

Thanks very much for any help with this,

Vicki

163
Sorry, I hit the Post button accidentally.    :(   So here is the rest...

I think (regarding 1694) there was a Jon and wife and a farmhand?  and then Per and a wife (maybe the son)...confusing, but for now I think the son Per is living there.

1695 and 1694 look same I think:

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-42-1695-Image-1740-Page-1289
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840166?image=1740&page=

The next available tax record is 1701 and Jon is a widower and Nils and wife are there. 

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-43-1701-Image-1230-Page-1611
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840167?image=1230&page=1611

I am trying to make sure I'm reading and documenting these tax records correctly for future use so, hopefully, when I get more information I can tell what fits and what does not.   :)

Today I spent a lot of time looking at the Nannasson tax records in Södergárden Vigåssa in Annerstad and Nanne ? tax records in Kränkeboda in Vrá.  I saw Otto (a familiar name) and others but I, of course, don't know if any of this fits into the picture yet.  Hopefully, it will make more sense at a later time.

One thing I found very interesting is how detailed the very early records where.  The wives names were listed and some of the patronymic names also.  I trace Nanne ? back to 1653 and 1654 and both tax records included his full name:  Nanne Larsson!

1654
Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Jönköpings-län-1643-1820-F-12-1654-Image-2160-Page-1139
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v843392?image=2160&page=1137
 
1653
Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-12-1653-Image-3200-Page-325
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840136a?image=3200&page=325

It's all very interesting!

Thanks again for your help!  It looks like all I will have, for now, regarding whether or not Jon Nannasson is the father of Kierstin Johnsdotter are a bunch of pieces to the puzzle.  But, I will keep them in preparation for the next piece.   ;D

Thanks again.  I really appreciate all the help you and Lars-Ola have given me,

Vicki

164
Thank you!

The first time I see a Per listed with Jon and wife (and Anders and wife) is in 1691, listed as Drang Per.

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-38-1691-Image-1260-Page-1641
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840162?image=1260&page=1641 .

In 1692 there is a Per listed as a son (doesn't say whose son he is) with Anders and wife and Jon and wife

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-39-1692-Image-1360-Page-1308
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840163?image=1360&page=1308

In 1693 (the one you looked at) lists the son Per Jonsson along with Anders and wife and Jon and wife.

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-40-1693-Image-1340-Page-1474
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840164?image=1340&page=1474

In 1694 are 2 Pers?there is a Per listed with Jon and wife (same line) and also what looks like another Per?? (and a wife?) - so maybe there 

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-41-1694-Image-1760-Page-1741
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840165c?image=1760&page=1741


165
General questions / Need help with 1693 Annerstad tax record
« skrivet: 2020-12-01, 21:37 »
Attached is a 1693 tax record for Södergárden Vigåssa in Annerstad.  I've circled the areas I'd like to confirm and/or correct.

 3/4  Vigåssa Södergárden  Anders and wife  Jon and wife   4
                                         Son Per Jonsson                      1  (son of Jon above?)
                                         Per ?                                      1 

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-40-1693-Image-1340-Page-1474
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840164?image=1340&page=1474

Thank you for your help,

Vicki

166
Thank you for this information!  It is interesting about the kind of tax they are paying, I didn't realize this and had wrongly been assuming that they were military people. I only remember seeing this notation in the older tax records and found it a bit confusing.  I should have asked (there are so many things to ask!).  :)

I know that it is all disconnected at this point, but I'm trying to establish whether there is any possibility that Jon and wife on the Slättewrå 1680 tax record in Wrå could be the same Jon as the 1682 sexton/bell ringer.  It seems possible if he had an affiliation with the church tax. There are no other tax records available between 1680 and 1687.  In 1687 (and after), it looks like Jon is no longer in Slättewrå.  But, in 1687, there is a Jon (likely Nannesson) living in Viggåsa Sodergård in Annerstad, therefore, I think it is possible that they could be the same person.  Mainly, I'm trying to determine whether I should rule it out or not. 

Don't worry - I never assume anything.  As long as there is a possibility that I am heading the right direction, I will keep collecting more data.  Otherwise I will drop that line of inquiry and leave my notations for future reference.   I think it is still a possibility at this point.

Even if I don't find proof in the records that I am able to locate and review, that's ok.  I'll keep my notes and if I can come across more information in the future that can prove a connection, that would be great! 

All your help and input is very much appreciated,

Vicki

167
Attached is a 1680 tax record for Slattevrå, Vrå that shows a Jon and wife and a Hans(?) and wife at Slattevrå (circled in red). I am not sure what it says at the beginning of the line (circled in blue)  It looks like these are military people though. Would it be at all possible for this person to be the same person as the sexton/bell ringer in the 1682 document we just looked at?

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-29-1680-Image-1240-Page-956
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840153?image=1240&page=954

It seems possible that Jon Nannesson may have come from Vrå since there is a connection there with two of his sons but I don't see anything in the court records that would indicate where Jon Nannesson was living when he bought the properties in Viggåsa Sodergård in Annerstad. Did I miss it?

There is a Jöns in Slattevrå 1687 but am not sure if that is the same person or not. 

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-34-1687-Image-1120-Page-1475
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840158?image=1120&page=1473

I don't find Jon listed there in 1689 or 1690.

Still nothing to prove a definitive link between Jon Nannesson in Slattevrå in Vrå and Jon in Viggåsa Sodergård in Annerstad yet.  I'm not actually sure if any of this is linked but would like your thoughts on what I have found so far.  I will continue  tomorrow. :)

Thanks so much for all of your help,

Vicki

168
Hi again,

I just switched my browser to Microsoft Edge and it works perfectly! 

Thank you again for your help,

Vicki

169
Yvonne,

Thank you!  I will also look into why it is not workingl

Good point about the browser.  I'm using Chrome but I can try others.   What do you use?  I haven't had an problem on Riksarkivet before so I could be able to get to the bottom of it!

It is interesting that you had pointed out Johan Nannesson's death record in 1752 on another topic!  So I'm trying to see if any of these pieces fit together...

Thanks again for your help!

Vicki

170
I tried and got the same "This plugin is not supported" error.  So, I guess I need to figure out if there's a plugin I need to get.... any idea what I might need?

Thanks for your help!

Vicki

171
Hi Lars-Ola,

You sent a reference to a Jon Nannesson for me to view:

Citera
[/size]Regarding the name Nanne, Yvonne is correct that it is more frequent in Vrå parish. And there is a connection Vrå parish with two of the sons, Per and Johan came to live there. Also it is possible that Jon Nannesson is the same person that were the sexton/ringer in Vrå 1682 (Slättevrå)[size=78%]

Riksarkivet: Roterings- och utskrivningslängder, Arkiv med löpande volymnumrering, SE/KrA/0025/0/45 (1682), bildid: A0054893_008

I am not sure how to access this on Riksarkivet.  Unfortunately, I'm not very familiar with Riksarkivet.  Can you explain what I need to do to access it?  (I think I got close but then received a plug-in error).

Thank you very much,

Vicki

172
Hi again Yvonne and Lars-Ola,

Thank you both for the clarifications and additional information!

Translating is difficult so it is very helpful to have my rough translation reviewed by you to let me know whether or not I am still on the right track.   

I also saw the Aug 1752 death record for a Johan Nannesson when trying to find Johan Jonsson in Vrå and wondered the same thing (that maybe there was a mixup on the name!).  There seems so be no other trace of him there (so far) otherwise.

Thank you both for all this information!  I will continue to follow up on all of it and see what can be learned.  My specific questions related to this family I'll continue to post on the original post in order to keep this all together.  Hopefully this will help other researchers that may be looking for this same family.  They will find the information in one place.  I haven't posted on the Swedish boards yet and will look at that for future since you think it may be helpful.

Thank you again for all of the help you've both given me!  It is all very interesting! 

Vicki

173
Hi again Yvonne,

My goal is to see if I can determine for certain whether Jon Nannesson (vs. Persson) in Södergárden Vigássa is the father of Kiersten Johnsdotter (wife of Jöran Jonsson) and her siblings listed on the Sunnerbo dombok court records from 1718 and 1720 (which mentions a document from 1710).  (Lars-Ola now thinks that it is more likely to be Jon Nannesson since Jon Persson had a son Olaf, a son who is not listed among the siblings of my ancestor.  I think he is correct and I'm hoping I can find a solid connection to Jon Nannesson.  I am somewhat puzzled, though, that I don't find the name Nanne in the line anywhere.

In looking at the documents that Lars Ola sent, I'm trying to understand what they exactly are telling me.  In the following reference:

https://www.sunnerbo.nu/Sunnerbo-dombok-1696.s26?highlight=Wigg%C3%A5sa

It says on page 45:
Citera
Samma dagh Präsenterades i Retten fyra med wittnen ratifice-   104 rade Kiöpebref, det enna af d 16 January 1685 uthgifwit och Dito underskrefwit af Magnus Jönßon Bruun, uppå een halfJordafierding uthi Sördragården Wiggåsa, som han till Joen Nanna-son och hans hustro Karin Johansdotter för 15 dl.r S.mt för

which I think, along with telling me his wife's name is Karins Johnsdotter, also is telling when he bought that property at Södergárden Vigássa (16 Jan 1685).  Am I correct in this assumption?

If further says, on page 46, the following:

Citera
Än dito Jöns Swenßons i Miäla och Elin Jonsdotters kiöpebref uppå deß andehlar uthi dito gård, som dhe
till Joen Nannaßon för Tolff dal.r S.mt föryttrat hafwa; förden-skull, såsom deßa kiöp äro frywilleligen giorda, betalningen
richtigt påfolgt, sampt ber.de jordalotter i Södregården Wiggåsa sälliare och deras arfwingar, och tillägnas Joen Nannasson,
hans hustru Karin Johansdotter och arfwingar etc
.

which I don't quite understand except that it relates to property for the benefit of his wife and heirs who are not mentioned by name.  I also am unclear about the date of this - is it from 1696?  From the first court records Lars-Ola sent from 1718 and 1720, Kiersten Johnsdotter and her siblings each sold their shares of Södergárden Vigássa to their brother Nils Jonsson.   So I wondered if this relates to what was written on page 46?   Was this Jon Nannesson making some provision for his wife and children?  As I had difficulty translating, this may be a wrong assumption I realize.

The tax record for 1687 in Södergárden Vigássa was the first I saw mention of Jon and wife.  I continued to see them listed until 1695.  In 1693 I see them listed with a son Per (unmarried). 

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840164?image=1340&page=1474

In 1701 he is listed as a widower, but it looks like his son Nils (married) in living there.  He is the Nils I believe his siblings sold their shares of Södergárden Vigássa to sometime between 1710-1718. 

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840167?image=1230&page=1611

But, I find the 1702 record confusing.  It still lists a Jon (apparently married) and Nils and wife are still living there.  So I think Jon has left the farming to Nils (his son) in 1701.  It would make sense that he is helping to support his parents in 1702.

It is exciting to learn whatever I can and appreciate very much all the help you and Lars-Ola have given me. 

Should I still be adding more inquiries to the original post or should I be separating my newer questions out under new posts.  I don't want you to feel obligated to respond to every post.  ;D  You have been wonderful and very kind in answering my ongoing questions!!

Thanks again for all your help! 

Vicki

174
General questions / SV: Need help with 1687 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-11-28, 23:22 »
Hi Yvonne,

That is what I thought but want to make sure I understand.  This and the other questions you responded to are part of the research I'm doing on the most recent information that Lars-Ola sent.  Trying to put together a basic timeline.  I'll elaborate more on the other questions. 

Thank you so much!

Vicki

175
General questions / Need help with 1701 and 1702 tax records
« skrivet: 2020-11-28, 01:38 »
Attached are two tax records that I need some help with.

1701 tax record
Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-43-1701-Image-1230-Page-1611
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840167?image=1230&page=1611

I believe it says that Jon is a widower (please correct me if I am misunderstanding) but I don't know what the note on the far right says. 

1702 tax record
Annerstad Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-44-1702-Image-1680-Page-2471
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840168a?image=1680&page=2471

I don't know if this is the same Jon as in the 1701 tax record, if so, is he still married??  Also, I need help with the note again.

Thank you so much for any help with these! 

Vicki

176
General questions / SV: Need help with 1687 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-11-28, 00:28 »
Forget the references (sorry!):

Mantalsoängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-34-1687-Image-1140-Page-1479
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840158?image=1140&page=1479

Vicki

177
General questions / Need help with 1687 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-11-28, 00:27 »
Attached is a 1687 tax record.  Will someone confirm or correct my translation of the circled text for Vigåssa, Annerstad?

I think it says:

Vigåssa Jon and wife, ? Anders
            Per and wife

Would this indicate that Per is related to Jon or could they be an unrelated couple?

Thanks very much for any help with this!

Vicki


178
Thanks so much for your help!

Vicki

179
Thank you very much!

Vicki

180
General questions / Need help with 1717-1723 household records
« skrivet: 2020-11-25, 02:05 »
Attached are two Annerstad household records for Anders, wife Kirstin and two children, a daughter and a son Johan.  The first record shows the family at Annerstad Bergsgård from 1717-1719.

Annerstad-G-AI-1-1718-1723-Image-136-Page-259
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18248?image=136

What is the daughter's name - it looks like Alsa??  I believe this record shows that the family moved to Vigåssa in 1720.

I found them in Vigåssa.  It looks like the daughter married in 1720.  .

Annerstad-G-AI-1-1718-1723-Image-76-Page-139
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18248?image=76

Anders name is crossed out and there is a note for him - can anyone tell me what it says?  Did he die?

Any help with this would be much appreciated!

Thank you,

Vicki

181
It can be found at

Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-180-Page-347
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=180

Thanks,

Vicki

182
Attached is a copy of a death record 17 Feb 1744 death record for Pehr Jonsson, age 80 years, 4 months, 3 days.  Can anyone confirm that the place name is Hästhult? 

Thanks for your help!

Vicki

183
Yvonne,

Thank you for confirming my understanding and for the additional information!  In 1772 he would have only been about 16 years old!  I see that he had quite a military career. They were a very military family.

Your help is much appreciated,

Vicki


184
Yvonne,

Thank you so much for this!   I had confused Eva Christina and Eva Catharina so thank you for clearing up my misunderstanding and also explaining who Ulrica Humble was.   Jacob Johansson and Nils Pehrsson were not related to the family then, so that makes sense.  I just hadn't been sure how they fit in, only that they appeared on both estate inventories.

These inventories really shed light on the difficulties families went through and how they supported each other.  It is very interesting.  Do I understand correctly then, that before she died, she had asked her brother, Magnus, to be the guardian of the only surviving child, Georg Gustaf?  Would that have been only for representing the son for the estate inventory or to actually take him into his family?  Or would legal guardianship have to be established later through a separate court case?

I continue to review and add to, where possible, the information that you and Lars-Ola have given to me!  I can't resist expanding (and documenting) all the I can find.  Everything I learn is of interest!

Again, thank you so much for all your help!

Vicki






185
Eva Catharina Rotkirch is the children's grandmother (their mother's mother) and Magnus is the children's uncle (their mother's brother).  I'm not sure who some of the others are, but was wondering what happened to the 2 children. 

Thanks for your help,

Vicki

186
I just realized that I have more information on Margareta Elisabet Humble's family (from the Anström biographical information I received earlier!) and at least one name looks familiar already - maybe I can figure a little more of it out....  :)

Thanks for any help,

Vicki

187
Today I found the 1759 and 1761 Estate Inventories for Christian Ahnström and his widow, respectively. 

When Christian Ahnström died in 1759, he had two very young children: a son Georg Gustaf b. 1756 and a daughter Eva Christina b. 1758. 

Christian Ahnström's (1759) Estate Inventory mentions his widow M E Humble but I don't see mention of the children.  But, there is mention of a Jacob Johansson in ? and a Nils Pehrsson in Hult  (Not sure who they are but they are also mentioned in the widow's estate inventory in 1761.)  Christian's estate inventory begins on:

Norra-Vedbo-häradsrätt-F-FII-3-1758-1760-Image-246-Page-483
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v77675?image=246

Widow Margareta Elisabet Humble (1761) Estate Inventory is very long and appears to have many family members and relationships included!  She must have come from an important family?  I can't figure it all out.  Both of the children, Georg Gustaf and Eva Christina are mentioned.  I am guessing, since they are still very young children, they are explaining what will happen to the children....it begins on page:

Norra-Vedbo-häradsrätt-F-FII-4-1761-1762-Image-53-Page-99
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v77676?image=53

Any insight of what happened to them and who this family is would be much appreciated!  It looks very interesting....

Thanks for your help,

Vicki

188
Hi Yvonne,

Thank you so much! This interesting information really gives us a glimpse of their lives at the time.  Even for a "better family" life could be very difficult. 

The detailed description of their burial places is also very interesting.  In the notes it appeared that Christian was buried in the church but I had thought that meant in the church cemetery (rather than inside the church).  I'm glad that you were able to provide a more thorough description of where Christian and his wife were buried. 

Thanks again for filling in my (large) gaps and for other clarifications.  As you can see, I'm still documenting the Ahnström
brothers.  :) 

It's all so interesting!

Vicki

189
The marriage record and the death records for Sergeant Christian Ahnström and his wife, Margaretha Elisabet Humble, are very interesting.  I understand a lot of it but still need help with the rest of it.

11-11-1755 marriage record:
Trehörna-E,-F-C-3-1754-1799-Image-122-Page-231
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v36381?image=122

On 11 Nov (1755) were married the sergeant from the Jönköping regiment of ? Company, Christian Ahnström, and Miss(?) Margaretha Elizabeth Humble in Flugebo. I don't understand the last sentence at all so any help would be appreciated.

1759 death record for Christian Ahnström:
Trehörna-E,-F-C-3-1754-1799-Image-75-Page-141
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v36381?image=75

18 Apr (1759) died and on 11 May was buried a Sergeant from the Jönköping regiment, Christian Ahnström. in Flugebo.  He married Margaretha Elizabeth Humble on 11 Nov 1755 and they had 2 children, 1 son and 1 daughter who died. I don't know what it says after that, except he was 44 years old.  Again, any help with this with the last part would much appreciated.  Interestingly , their death records almost read like a modern day obituary.

1761 death record for Margaretha Elizabeth Humble:
Trehörna-E,-F-C-3-1754-1799-Image-76-Page-143
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v36381?image=76

14 Mar (1761) died the Sergeant's widow Margaretha Elizabeth Humble who was born 26 Feb 1726, married 11 Mov 1755, ? the Sergeant died 18 Apr 1759 ???? They had 2 children, 1 son and 1 daughter who is buried with parents??  Again, I can't figure out the rest (except she was 35 years and 10 days old) so any help with my understanding would be much appreciated! 

Thanks so much,

Vicki

190
Hi again Lars-Ola,

I agree that since there is no sibling named Olaf, it is unlikely that Jon Persson is the father of Kiersten Jonsdotter and her siblings. 

If Jon Nannesson is the father of Kiersten Jonsdotter (and her siblings) and Karin Johansdotter is their mother, then it makes sense the one of the siblings is named Johan after their mother's father. Secondly, Kiersten Jonsdotter (married to Jöran Jonsson) had a daughter named Karin Jöransdotter, named after her own mother Karin Johansdotter.  But, I don't see how Nanne fits in unless there was another son who had died earlier who had that name. 

It is all very interesting!  I look forward to hearing more when you have time!  I have plenty to work on in the meantime and I'm appreciative of whatever you have time to do!

Again, thank you so much for all your help,

Vicki

191
Hi again!

Thank you for the explanation!  The thought had occurred to me but seems like it would cause a lot of confusion.  Still, it makes sense.  It is just that I haven't come across it before in my family.

Yes, all this wonderful information is very exciting!  You are both keeping me very busy!

Thanks again for all of your help,

Vicki

192
Hi again Lars-Ola,

Thank you so much for this further information.  I feel that I'm rather slow at my research but am trying to understand clearly what I am documenting.  I really appreciate all of this information and only wish I could digest it faster!  :) 

One question I have is about the two Kierstins - I have not, so far, seen two surviving children named the same name, both still living.  Usually, one dies and other gets same name.  Is this unusual? 

I think I've found the other Kierstin's family (she was married to Anders Ericksson in Bergsgd, Annerstad.  Fortunately there is a household record for 1718-1723 available.  While there are no last names, I think this is the correct record for them.

Annerstad-G-AI-1-1718-1723-Image-136-Page-259
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18248?image=136

Hopefully, I can use this information to learn more about this family.

Also, I think I may have found the household record for Nils and his family at Vigåssa, Annerstad - also from a 1718-1723 household record.

Annerstad-G-AI-1-1718-1723-Image-77-Page-141     
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18248?image=77

There is a 1744 death record in Vrå for a Pehr Jonsson , if I'm reading the place name correctly as Håsthult this could possibly be his death record.  It would put his birth year circa 1664. 

These findings need further proof which I will continue looking for.   

There are no household records available in Vrå for the 1718-1720 timeframe to give me a starting point for the other siblings so I will check other records.

It would be very exciting if the Jon Persson we are discussing is a brother to your ancestor and the same person referenced in the 1658 and 1666 court records and also mentioned in the 1682 rotelängdand, enabling us to go tack another three generations!  (I am not clear on what a rotelängdand is, unfortunately). 

I can see that I have much more work to do and I am very happy to do it!  If you see anything that you feel is obviously incorrect so far, please tell me.  At this point I am not taking it as fact, but only that it requires more research.

Thank you so much for your continued interest and help,

Vicki


193
I'll keep you posted!!    ;D

Thanks again,

Vicki

194
Hi again Lars-Ola,

Thank you so much for this additional information!  It is all very interesting and I will follow up on it along with all of the new information I've just received about the Anström brothers!

You and Yvonne are keeping me very busy!  And, I'm enjoying it all immensely!  I would have never been able to learn all of this without your continued help and interest!!

Thanks again to you both!

Vicki

195
Yvonne,

In looking at the information from the Ahnström Från Biografiska anteckningar, it looks as if (TAB 1)indicates that the names of the parents of Peter and Christian are unknown.... is that your interpretation?  They were researching the name Ahnström back in time and we were coming from the other direction, looking at what happened to all the children of Jöran Jonsson. 

If that is the case, whoever wrote the biographical information on Peter and Christian probably would want to know the connection we've made using the information that Lars-Ola sent....

What do you think?

Vicki

196
WOW!!  i can't believe it!  This is a great find!  How did you come across it?  We have done an excellent job of sleuthing so far, wouldn't you say? 

Gee, this makes it much easier!  And we have Christian also! 

Great fun!

Thanks so much for this!!

Vicki

197
Yvonne,

Thank you so much for this!  I can see why that must have been a tough one - it is quite confusing to follow but very interesting!   Thank you also for finding the place where Peter came from before his promotion to Sergeant AND for his inventory. 

I really appreciate this new information that will enable me to move forward and am eager to follow it up!   

Yes, Christian - I hope to find him also, so will keep at it.

Thanks again for this very useful and interesting information!  And now I see you have sent another reply.... one moment while I take look!

Vicki

198
Yvonne,

So far I've found no evidence of Peter Anström living in either Rönhult in Malmbäck parish or Råsa in Lommaryd parish.  There are no household records available around that timeframe.  I've checked for birth records for possible children and for marriage records.   Still need to check death records. 

There is a big gap in the available GMRs between 1744 and 1759.  Peter is no longer there in 1759.  The 1743 and 1744 GMRs have no notes, but the 1742 GMR seems to have an extensive note but am unsure how helpful it will be in locating him.

Can you tell me if the notes on the attached GMR gives any indication where he might be?

Generalmönsterrullor--Jönköpings-regemente-F-373a-1742-Image-329
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v50310?image=329

No sign of Christian Anström so far - but I'm still trying to locate him also!

Thanks so much for your help,

Vicki
 

199
General questions / SV: Need help with 1741
« skrivet: 2020-11-13, 13:48 »
Thank you for your help!

Much appreciated,

Vicki

200
Thank you so much!  I'll start "paging" ...   :)

Vicki

201
Yvonne,

When looking for Peter and Christian Anström you said:

Citera
it would be important to note the name of the place. They should be noted there perhaps in a soldiers cottage.

In the response from Leif, the record for Peter Anström can be found at:

Generalmönsterrullor--Jönköpings-regemente-F-372-1741-1742-Image-380-Page-370
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v50309?image=380

I'm not exactly sure where he is living - how can I tell?  If I back up a page, it says Vastra Harad but not quite sure what the rest of it all means.

Thanks for your help!

Vicki

By the way - I'm glad you mentioned that the name may listed as Anström, which is how I found it!

202
General questions / SV: Need help with 1741
« skrivet: 2020-11-12, 19:08 »
Can you tell me if 29 refers to his age, 1 1/2 to number of years in military service and the ?can't read? to place of birth?  The note looks like it says sick old absent ??? which doesn't seem to make sense...

Thanks very much,

Vicki

203
General questions / SV: Need help with 1741
« skrivet: 2020-11-12, 18:50 »
Wow, thank you so much!  I see him!

Your help is much appreciated,

Vicki


204
Hi Yvonne,

Today I'm reviewing all the information you sent and that I've been working on :) to make sure I haven't missed anything and that I've noted all the information within my software. 

I want to thank you again for all of your ongoing help!  You have given me so much information that I would never have found on my own.

You may have noticed that I put a separate inquiry on Peter Anström out for military help with the 1739-1742 Jönköping regemente muster rolls.  After going through most of the link you sent, I was lost and not coming up with anything and unsure I was even still on the right track. The googled information didn't seem to pan out either and  I had checked the soldier register previously also and found nothing.  So, maybe someone can help me with this piece. 

You've done so much!  I thought it would be nice not put more on your todo list!!

Thank you again, I'm sure I'll have more questions along the way!

Vicki

205
General questions / Need help with 1741
« skrivet: 2020-11-12, 15:28 »
I'm trying to locate Pehr/Peter and Christian Anström/er (or possibly Jöransson) in the General Muster rolls for the Jönköping Regiment around 1739-1742 or so.  A google search led me to the Source: General Muster - Jönköping Regiment 372 (1741-1742), Image 5 and page 368 where a (Sergeant) Peter Anström is supposedly listed.  However, I don't find his name listed there.  His commanding officer Per Silfversparre is listed but not Peter. 

I also "paged" through most of the 1739 muster roll for the Jönköping Regiment but found nothing so far.  If anyone can help me locate Peter I would really appreciate it!

Thanks for any help with this!

Vicki
 

206
Thank you for this!  Alas, father's name is still Lars Lundman and I don't see any other connections. 

So, I'll what else turns up.  :)

Thanks again,

Vicki

207
Hi again,

Thank you for your thoughts on this.  I have kept all the documentation I've researched so far in case I find something further that will prove it.  It seems that he has gone by the name Lundman forever but still seems like there is a connection there.  A Rebecka is listed on the 1765, 1766 and 1768 records - specifically as a daughter in 1768.

These are the 3 tax records listing his daughter Rebecka:

1765
Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-72-1765-Image-3530-Page-347
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840196?image=3530&page=344

1766
Mantalsläer-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-73-1766-Image-1310-Page-565
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840197?image=1310&page=558

1768
Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-75-1768-Image-2720-Page-266
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840199?image=2720&page=263

I also tried to go back to find a birth record for Rebecca around 1743 - 1748 to see how here parents are listed , again those birth records are really hard to read so I set it aside. 

Good point about possible estate inventories that may shed more light - once I have all the people in place, I'll see what I can find. :)

Thanks again!

Vicki


208
I should have added that I found a 1741 marriage record for Lars and tax records for at least the years 1744-1777 but in all cases he was listed as Lars Lundman (or Lungman). I also found his widow's death record in Angelstad in 1785.  If this is his death record, then I don't think  Lars Bengtsson and Lars Lundman are the same man.  Lars Bengtsson was born 1709 and this Lars, based on that death record, would have been born ca 1714, although it is still possible I guess.

Thanks,

Vicki

209
Yvonne,

Can you tell me if the attached 1784 death record is for the bell ringer and organ player in Angelstad? 

Angelstad-G-CI-2-1747-1809-Image-147-Page-285
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30822?image=147

(I have not been able to connect the names Lars Lundman and Lars Bengtsson)

Thanks for your help!

Vicki

210
Yvonne,

Thank you SO much for this additional information!  More to dig into!  How wonderful!  I also appreciate your words of encouragement.  I enjoy this work immensely, as mentioned before, but it is a learning process and I sometimes get a bit ahead of myself.  :) 

I'll continue on with my research....    ;D

Again, thanks so much for your ongoing help,

Vicki

211
Yvonne,

Will you verify whether this is the Romborna Norregård household record you are referring to for Brita Bengtsdotter's family?  As you indicated, it is a bit difficult to read - it shows Bengt and his wife Marta(?) (and other children in the family?)- I can't tell if the crossed out name is Bengta or Brita nor can I read the note.  (not a surprise) :) 

Annerstad-G-AI-1-1718-1723-Image-23-Page-33
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18248?image=23

I'm getting near the end of the information you've given me on this family although there are a couple death records for children who died young that I haven't been able find yet - I'll circle back and look again. 

I want you to know how much I appreciate all you're doing to help me.  It would have been impossible for me to find all this on my own.  It is so very interesting (and I know I ask a lot of dumb questions and still spell alot of things wrong). 

So, thanks again for your ongoing help,

Vicki

212
Thank you, Yvonne! 

You are no doubt correct, just want to make sure everything I have is as clear as possible! 

I'll continue on...  :)

Your insight is always appreciated,

Vicki

213
Attached is the marriage record for Per Arvidsson and Britta Bengtsdotter.   I believe it says:

On 16 Jan 1723 were married Per Arvidsson i Störe Tannåker and Miss Britte Bengtsdotter from Annerstad parish ? in Tannåker. 

Not sure what is written in the ?.  One question about this marriage - I was expecting Per Arvidsson to be designated as a widower but I don't see that.  Am I missing something?  Is it sometimes left off the record?

Thanks for any help with this!

Vicki

214
Thank you so much for this information and for giving me a place to start looking!  I really appreciate it.

Once I have documented what I have learned so far for Britta Bengtsdotter, I will take my time and go through these books!

Again, thank you so much,

Vicki

215
In a listing of regemental commanders for the Kungl. Jönköping regemente I found a listing for: 1739–1747: P Silfversparre (I think this may be the one you are referring to although I am assuming the P stands for Per.  I don't really know if 1747 is the year of death or the last year he was a commanding officer).  There was no more information given.

There is Per Silfversparre who died in 1750 in Nåshult, Jönköping but doubt that is the same person as he was a General Major.  It looks like there were a lot military Silfversparres.

As far as I can tell the Jönköpings regemente was an infantry regiment headquartered in Jönköping county (but I don't know which parish) and I am far from an expert in this area of research.

Since my purpose is to find Christian and Peter Anströmer's whereabouts in 1740, at the time of the distribution of Jöran Jonsson's estate, I was thinking that if I could find where Per Silfversparre was, I might find them also.  My search for the name Anströme has turned up nothing so far but there seem to be quite a few Silfversparres.   Maybe I should be looking at military records?  Well, that's for tomorrow.  I'd also like to get back to Britta Bengtsdotter, also a very interesting discovery!  :)

Thanks again for all your help! 

Vicki

216
Thank you!

So if I can figure out exactly where he was, that's where I should be able to find Peter and Christian, is that correct?

I'll see what I can find.  :) 

Thank you so much - you are keeping me busy!  That's great!

Vicki




217
Thank you for all of this information!

Regarding the translation, I also noticed the Kierstin/Karin mixup but we know that Karin was the only daughter and that she married Nils Nilsson. The brothers Pehr (now called Peter) and Christian Jöransson are now going by the surname Anströmer, serving in the military under the same colonel?  It doesn't say where they are located though. I will check the records again for their new name.  I didn't find anything in the Centrala Soldatregistret for the name Anströmer. There is a Per SILFVERSPARRE but I have no idea if this could be the same person mentioned or not:

Antagen: 1708
Avsked: 1728
Aktnummer: SR-BEFÄLET-1708
Regemente: Södermanlands regemente
Rote: Hade Boställe
Kompani: -
Socken: EJ FASTSTÄLLT
Torpnummer: SR-BEFÄLET

This is fascinating and I really appreciate that Lars-Ola posted it!

It is equally exciting that you have been able to find more information on Britta Bengtsdotter!  I will check it out!!  Thanks so much for this!

The Tannåker church is very beautiful inside, isn't it?  Even with the updates they've preserved its history.  Thank you for sending the link!

Thanks again for the ongoing help,

Vicki

218
Lars-Ola and Yvonne,

Lars-Ola,

Thank you for this great information!  I think that you have helped us solve the mystery surrounding what happened to two of the "missing" sons of Jöran Jonsson and Kiersin Johnsdotter!  It seems that the other "missing" son must have died(?) as I don't see his name included.

Yvonne,
Did you see what Lars-Ola sent?  Just what we needed!  Will you help translate it?  I'm afraid the translator didn't work very well on this. 

Thank you for sending that map link!  I can easily see why it would be one of your favorites!  The church is surrounded by a peaceful landscape, very beautiful.  Do I see old tombstones?  How old is the church? 

Thank you to both of you!  You're so kind!

Vicki

219
Ok, I'm having some technical difficulties.  :)  I apologize!   I had to start over....hence the 2 posts.

Sorry about that!

Vicki

220
Hi again,

I was confused thinking Tannåcker was in Jönköping when I couldn't find it on the Kronoberg map I have.  :-[  Oh, well, a minor setback.

It is amazing how quickly you are able to piece together relationships that tie these families together!  I love that you found that Kierstin's husband Per Larsson was a guardian for one of her brother Per Persson's sons! 

This is so interesting - I would never have figured it out (even after numerous attempts at taking a fresh look - every time I ended up at a dead end again). 

There is so much information here, it will take while to find it all and document it.  Great fun.  :)

Thanks so much for your help with this! 

Vicki

221
Hi again,

It is amazing how quickly you are able to piece together relationships that tie these families together!  Wow, this is so interesting and I would never have figured it out.  I've tried numerous times to take a fresh look at this family but always ended up at a dead end. 

Thanks so much!

Vicki


222
Yes, I think you are correct!  Thank you so much for this!  I have started looking at Tanåcker but am totally unfamiliar with this parish.  I found it in Jönköping, so am currently looking for information there, starting with the information you gave me earlier. 
 
How did you find the connection to Tanåcker in the first place?  I obviously didn't have the correct birth record for Kiersten (and I did wonder about it).  I saw the 2 different birth years on the household records too, but decided it must be 1731 when I found her death record in 1789, age 58.  The Kiersten you found was also born in 1731, so that's good!  :) 

It's slow going for me at best!  But even slower when I am unfamiliar.... but, never fear, I will keep at it!

Thank you again!

Vicki

223
Thank you so much.  I really tried on this one.

You got further than I did so that helps.  I'll see what I can find!

Thanks again for all of your help,

Vicki

224
Thanks very much!

I always appreciate any help or direction you can give.  :)

Vicki

225
Hi again Yvonne,

Yvonne,

Since you know a lot about Annerstad, particularly Brogård and Marsjö, I wonder if you would take a look at this person (Kierstin Pehrsdotter) and see if anything sounds familiar to you as possibly being connected to your ancestry.  😊 This is what I know about her:

Kierstin Pehrsdotter
b. 7 Dec 1731 Brogård, Annerstad  (Annerstad-G-CI-1-1708-1750-Image-83-Page-161)  (https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30808?image=83)
m. Per Larsson 2 Jul 1754 Marsjö, Annerstad (Annerstad (G) CI:2 (1751-1814) Image: 151 Page: 295) (https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30809?image=151)
d. May 1789 Marsjö, Annerstad, widow,58 years old  (Annerstad-G-CI-2-1751-1814-Image-206-Page-405) (https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30809?image=206)

Her birth record lists her father’s name as Pehr Jönsson – the only thing I can find on a possible family for her is a 1718-1723 household record in Norrgård, Annerstad, but I have no idea if that would be the correct family for her since she wasn’t born until 1731.  (Annerstad-G-AI-1-1718-1723-Image-124-Page-235) (https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18248?image=124)

I would like to go back further on her line if possible. 

Related background information in case it helps or anything sounds familiar to you
:
Per Larsson (her husband)
b. 26 Jan 1725 Miäla, Torpa (Torpa-G-C-1-1690-1747-Image-81-Page-157) (https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30192?image=81)
d. 9 Apr 1789 Marsjö,  Annerstad  (Annerstad-G-CI-2-1751-1814-Image-206-Page-405) (https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30809?image=206)

Kierstin Pehrsdotter and Per Larsson are listed in the tax records at Marsjö Storgård, Annerstad from 1755-1768.

Kierstin Pehrsdotter and Per Larsson are listed in the household records at Marsjö Storgård from 1760-1788.

There is an estate inventory (which I had much help with on this forum back in Mid-March): (Sunnerbo-häradsrätt-G-FII-10-1790-1791-Image-216-Page-337)
The estate inventory lists a brother to Per Larsson:  Anders Larsson b. 30 Jul 1731 Miäla, Torpa  (Torpa-G-C-1-1690-1747-Image-87-Page-169)  (https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30192?image=87)

This family has been another really tough one to break through on earlier than 1725.  Maybe that is all the further back I can go for now.

If nothing stands out to you on this – it’s absolutely fine – but any help is always greatly appreciated! 

Thanks again for all the help you’ve given me! 

Vicki

226
Wow, that is so interesting!   Unlike any I've seen before, so not surprising that I was struggling   :)

Thank you so much,

Vicki

227
Yvonne,

I've been working on the estate inventory for Lars Jöransson taken on 8 November 1762 after his death in Abbeshult and Vrå parish.  It is quite confusing.  Was there another inventory taken in July 1763?  The names are familiar.  The widow Anna Perdotter is mentioned several times - was she represented at the inventory by her 21 year old son, Jöran Larsson?

I am not sure what the role of Samuel Persson was - did he take the inventory?

I think that the 14 year old son Lars Larsson was represented by his uncle, his father's brother Johan Jöransson in Marsjö.

Jon Jöransson (another uncle (father's brother) in Annerstad  Byagard is mentioned - did he also represent the son Lars Larsson  and/or the widow Anna Persdotter in some way?

In July 1763 it looks like the danneman Sven Johansson in Bjerseryd represented the son Joran Larsson.

As you mentioned this is quite an extensive inventory.  As usual i have trouble with the handwriting, only recognizing some of the words.

Can you tell me if I have the gist of it?  The relationships match what I have documented.  I probably don't need every detail.   :)

Thanks  again for your help,

Vicki

228
Thank you SO MUCH for that clarification!!  So Anna Ericsdotter also had a brother name Jöran (the one who was buried same time as their mother, Kirstin Håkansdotter)  But, the Jöran and Daniel you wrote of, were the brothers of Kirstin Håkansdotter.

I think I have it right, now!

Thanks again,

Vicki   

229
Yvonne,

Please disregard - that was a stupid question!  I see that you listed Anna Ericsdotter as having brothers Jöran and Daniel (although it does look like he was buried same day as his mother - correct me if I'm wrong on that).

Thanks!

Vicki

230
Yvonne,

On the attached 30 Apr 1729 death record for Kirstin Håkansdotter (died age 63) I think it says that she and her son Jöran Ericksson (died 37 yrs), were buried on the same day.  His death record is dated 28 Apr 1729 and is right above her death record.  Before I add his name, will you confirm that I am reading this correctly?

Thanks very much!

Vicki


231
Thank you so much! 

I will finish documenting the additional information and start on the estate inventory!

Your help is very much appreciated,

Vicki

232
Yvonne,

As I was going through the information you gave me, I made the following notes/questions:

1.   Just something I noticed that can mislead a researcher: the wrong Christian is listed in the 1750 household records in Annerstad.  The Christian born in 1739 (child of first wife) died in 9 Aug 1742 at age 3 yrs, 3 mos, 6 days.  I think it is Christian born 1745 to second wife who should be listed. 
2.     I only found death records for 8 children - who do you think are the other 2 chidren who died young?
            Christian died Aug 1742
            Gunnil died Oct 1742
            Anna died Sept 1743
            Karin died Nov 1744
            Kirstin died Feb 1750
            Kirstin died May 1751
            Kirstin died Aug 1752
            Johan died Aug 1754
3.   Observation:  If I read the cause of death correctly,the cause of death for so many young children is apparently recorded as unknown.
4.   A nagging question about Erik Jöransson’s birth place: the preceding children (Christian and Lars) and the child born immediately after him (Karin) were all born at Annerstad Norrgåd but Erik was born at Annerstad Brogård – any insight on that?  Is a birth recorded where a child was actually born or recorded where the parents lived?
5.   So far, no evidence of Pehr, Christian or Erik in the death records in Annerstad. I also checked the marriage records between 1732-1750 in Annerstad and surrounding parishes (Torpa, Angelstad, Odensjö, Vrå and Kånna) but found none.
6.   Jöran Jonsson’s son Johan (his eldest child) also had children named Erik b. 1731 and Christian b. 1743/d. 1744. I wondered, since Johan had a son named Jöran b. 1740 the same year as his father died (no doubt named for his father) that maybe Erik and Christian were named after his brothers Erik and Christian who might have died around those years (but could find no evidence of that).  Erik might also have been named after his mother’s father – did he die around then (I don’t know her father’s patronymic name or where he was from).  One other thing, it seems strange that the first son would be named after his mother’s father (Erik) rather than the father’s father (Jöran) unless her father or his brother had died.
7.   I found the a death record for Lars Larsson in Hästhult dated 22 Jan 1831 (age 68) and the widow Malin Ericsdotter's death record in Hästhult dated 2 Mar 1835 (age 76).
8.   Will you confirm my understanding of Lars Larsson’s wife Malin Ericsdotter’s parentage in Annerstad Brogård to ensure that I document this correctly?  My understanding is that:
    Malin’s mother is Estred Persdotter.  Estred Persdotter’s parents are Per Svensson and Gunnil Erlandsdotter in Öjarp, Annerstad.
    Malin’s father is Erick Håkansson, the son of Håkan Ericsson whose father is Eric Jöransson from Annerstad Brogård, thus making Eric Jöransson the grandfather of Erick Håkansson from Annerstad Brogård)?  Since so many names and places are the same, can you clarify the birth years for Håkan Ericsson and Eric Jöransson in order to avoid the possibility of duplicating any names in my tree?

Once I have a solid understanding of and have documented the information you have given me, I will look at the estate inventory (which I purposely have saved for last!)  Such fun!  As always I appreciate your insight and ongoing help!

Thanks again,

Vicki

233
Thank you for this information!  I'll keep working away....

Vicki

234
Thank you so much for this!

I still have 4 more of Jon's childrens' birth records to find and then I want to go through all the death records after that.  I couldn't find the birth records for the 3 Kirstins but was able to find all the death records for them.  I also had to get the children with the correct mothers. :)  Påfwelsdotter! I don't think I would have figured that one out!

The 1784-1805 Byagård, Annerstad household record lists only a widow Margareta (Jon's widow?) so it looks like Jon must have died before 1784 - I'll check that out.

Looks like I've got more to do with Lars too!

This is great!! I can't thank you enough! I hope, that once I've gone through all of this information, that the estate inventory will really prove all these relationships that have been established.

I can't thank you enough!
 
Vicki


235
Thank you for this information!  I really appreciate your help!

I found 5 children for Lars Jöransson and Anna Persdotter (married May 26, 1740 Vrå):
Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-7-Page-7
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=7

1) Jöran b. 26 Feb 1743, Bierseryd, Vrå
Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-61-Page-113
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=61

2) Per b. 10 May 1746, Abbeshult, Vrå
Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-66-Page-123
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=66

3) Märtha b. 15 Sep 1753, Abbeshult, Vrå
Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-74-Page-139
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=74

She died age 11 months, 3 weeks of measles?, was buried August 1754.
Vrå (G) C:1 (1701-1823) Image: 185 Page: 357
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=185

4) Märtha b. 24 Jun 1755, Abbeshult, Vrå
Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-77-Page-145   
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=77

There is a note under her name on the birth record: död  Did she die also?

5) Kierstin b.3 Aug 1758, Abbeshult, Vrå
vVrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-82-Page-153b
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=82

Today I will go back and work on Jon's family to see where I went wrong,  You have given me so much to check into - great fun for me today!!  I thank you again for it.

Per, Christian and Erik.  Interesting that you have not found anything them.  I'll look also to see if I can find any sign of them, but am guessing if you can't find them, neither will I! :)

One thing that really strikes me is the number of children who died young.  It must have been heartbreaking. 

Thanks again for your ongoing help.  It is all very interesting,

Vicki

236
Wow!  What a find and thank very much for sending it!  You had estimated that he was married before 1705 so that is perfect and also fits in with the birth of their first child, Johan, who was born in 1702 (at least per the 1750 Marsjö, Annerstad household records).

The language used in the marriage confirmation is very interesting.  What it usual to have a confirmation like that?  I would have had no idea what that was even if I found it.  :)

Thanks again,

Vicki

237
General questions / SV: Need help with name in Vrå parish
« skrivet: 2020-10-28, 23:48 »
Thank you very much! As you can see, I'm still putting this together.  :)  (Whatever I find I include in my documentation.)

I started first on Jon's family but couldn't find any of the birth records in Odensjö or Annerstad nor have I found his marriage record(s). His family is living in Annerstad by 1750 according to the household exam records.  After I finish searching for the rest of Lars' children (it looks like his brother Jon is a witness for his first son Jöran' baptism), then I'll reread the information you sent about Jon's Kirstins and his two marriages and try to figure out why I can't seem to find anything.

Any idea where Pehr and Christian are? :)  I haven't found anything yet, but haven't yet started on them.

Thanks again for your help!

Vicki 


238
General questions / Need help with name in Vrå parish
« skrivet: 2020-10-28, 22:28 »
Can anyone help with the place name circled on the attached 1743 birth record in Vrå parish?

Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-61-Page-113
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=61

Thanks for your help,

Vicki

239
Thanks a lot for your response. 

I will continue, as I always have done, to document all family information I find as it helps me to "prove" my research.  It is not my intent, however, to document everything about everyone I find. 

Where there are no more records available and when I feel I've reached the end of a line, I still want to see what I can piece together with some degree of likelihood, noting that further research is required (in this way keeping my research from being lost).  But this applies only to the end of the line as I will not build on it further until I've proven that piece of information.  That is really all I can do since I know now that it is highly unlikely I will be reading the court records, unfortunately.  They are a gold mine of helpful and interesting information, from what I have seen so far. 

I'll continue to ask questions and will continue to appreciate the help I get from you and others!  You all know so much and I appreciate your sharing your knowledge!

Thanks again,

Vicki

240
Thank you so much. 

Yesterday, I finished documenting what I have previously found and have just begun my search for any daughters named Kirstin, born after 1748, into the families of her siblings.  I started with Jon because I knew where he was living, but I had not yet gotten to the point of locating all of his children. I soon realized that I wasn't really sure how to go forward here.

I am struggling with how to logically continue this part of my research.  Do I first locate where all Kirstin's siblings are living by looking through the baptismal witnesses (starting with Kirstin's own children's birth records) and also looking for their marriage records to try to locate them.  Then once I know where they are, try to locate all of their children through the birth records and any household records that are available?  Then, repeat the steps until I've (hopefully) found them all.  Am I missing steps?

I appreciate your help and so any advice or ideas on how you approach your continued research would be really great.  It is slow going for me, but I thoroughly enjoy the work as long as I can move forward, however slowly.  I guess I'm still in the "formulating a plan" phase.  :)

Thanks again for all of your ongoing help,

Vicki



241
Thanks very much.  Yes. I agree with you that I need to do more given that there are no records available to confirm my assumption.  But I was interested in your opinion as to whether you would agree with my conclusion.  The families that I'm currently working on are the most difficult ones.  With every iteration through my tree, I have learned more so I try again to expand my research.  :)

Thanks again!

Vicki

242
Yvonne,

Yesterday I continued perusing the Annerstad death records (through 1763) in search of a possible death record for Jöran Jonsson’s widow Kirstin ?.  I found the following 2 possibilities:

•   8 January 1748 Widow Kirstin Johnsdotter in Byagård, buried 17 January 1748, age 68 (birth year 1680)
Annerstad (G) CI:1 (1708-1750) Image: 74 Page: 143
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30808?image=74

This is a very good possibility because of the spelling of Johnsdotter.  She would still be young enough to be the mother of her youngest child, Karin, born in 1724.  I also don’t find any indication that she is still alive after 1750.  Her son John Jöransson is listed at Byagård in the 1750 household records (also spelled John vs Jon) – I think it is possible may have lived with his family after the death of her husband. 
Annerstad-G-AI-2-1750-1772-Image-127-Page-237
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18249?image=127

•   16 October(?) 1760 Widow Kirstin Jönsdotter in Brogård, buried 19th, age 90 (birth year 1670)
Annerstad-G-CI-2-1751-1814-Image-180-Page-353
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30809?image=180                                                                               

This is probably not her as she would likely be too old to be the mother of the Karin, born in 1724.
(G) CI:2 (1751-1814) Image: 180 Page: 353
However, in regard to the first death record (1748), I was concerned that since I had previously mistaken the 1713 marriage record of Sven Jonsson and Kirstin Jönsdotter for the marriage record of Jöran
Jonsson and Kirstin ? that this Kirstin Johnsdotter might be the widow of Sven Jonsson and not the widow of Jöran Jonsson.  Therefore I went to the household records for 1750 and found that both Sven and Kirstin were still living at that time. 

Annerstad-G-AI-2-1750-1772-Image-128-Page-239
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18249?image=128

Going further, I checked the 1760-1766 household records for them and found they both died during that timeframe.  Kirstin in 1760/1761 and Sven in 1763.  She died before he did.

Annerstad-G-AI-2-1750-1772-Image-200-Page-383
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18249?image=200d

And also found the death records to back this up:

19 November 1760 wife Kirstin Jönsdotter in Brogård….., age 67 (birth year 1693)
Annerstad-G-CI-2-1751-1814-Image-180-Page-353
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30809?image=180

4 August 1763 widower Sven Jonsson in Annerstad Brogård,,,,age 77  (birth year 1686)
Annerstad-G-CI-2-1751-1814-Image-183-Page-359
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30809?image=183
                                                                                             
The estimated birth years closely align with the birth years listed on the 1750 household record for Sven Jonsson and Kirstin Jönsdotter.  This rules out the possibility of the 1748 death record belonging to that Kirstin Jönsdotter. 

I did not find any other death records for a widow Kirstin that I thought could fit. 

My conclusion is that the 1748 death record listed above could be the right death record for the wife of Jöran Jonsson.   What are your thoughts?   Your insight would be much appreciated. 

Thanks very much,

Vicki

243
Thank you!  I did not find a "John" on your list of similar/interchangeable names and hadn't seen it before.  However, as I am going through the death records I've noticed a few more instances of that spelling.  Since I have nothing (yet) to prove or disprove this information, I appreciate the second opinion prior to adding to my information, although it seemed likely.

Thanks again,

Vicki

244
I believe I've found the death record for Jöran Johnson of Annerstad Norrgård - the spelling of Jonsson is different from what I've seen before - looks like Johnson. 

It is the first death record for 1740 dated 12 February.  His age at time of death is 62 years which would seem likely in 1740.  That would put his birth year at 1678 which would tie in with estimated marriage year and the birth of the children.

Annerstad (G) CI:1 (1708-1750) Image: 66 Page: 127
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30808?image=66

Maybe you already have this? 

Thanks!

Vicki

245
Thank you - that worked!   It is very interesting to see these photos.  I hadn't found them previously but do not recognize any of the names listed.   What I know is that my g grandfather's two surviving brothers Nils Peter Pehrsson and Jacob Pehrsson were still in Marsjö in 1880 when their father died (per the estate inventory) and that Jacob's youngest child was born in Marsjö in 1888.  I would need to do more research to find out what happened to them after that. 
 
Thanks very much for sending this!

Vicki

246
Yvonne,

My grandfather attended business college in Austin and had a grocery store in Albert Lea for a few years but all his children moved to the cities also, away from the farm. 

I'd love to see what you attached, but for some reason I get an error message when I try the link.  It says:

 "The requested URL was not found on this server.

Apache/2.4.25 (Debian) Server at forum.rotter.se Port 443"

Is there some other way for me to access it?

Thanks again for the interesting information!

Vicki

247
Yes, that may have helped!  But, you obviously have kept your skills current.  That is really wonderful.

My grandfather was August Wilhelm Carlsson, b. 9 July 1877 in Marsjö Norrgård, Annerstad parish. 
His father was Carl Johan Pehrsson, b. 20 December 1837 in Perstorp, Annerstad parish.
His mother was Johanna Larsdotter, b. 13 December 1836 in Össjöa, Torpa parrish.

There were 6 children including my grandfather:

  • Carolina Carlsdotter,  b. 1 March 1864 in Perstorp, Annerstad
    Lars Peter, b. 22 Jan 1867 in Marsjo Norrgard, Annerstad
    Johan Alfred, b. 5 Jan 1872 in Marsjo Norrgard, Annerstad
    Salomon Wilhelm, b. 26 May 1875, in Marsjo Norrgard, Annerstad, died same year of whooping cough
    August Wilhelm - my grandfather
    Alma Charlotta, b. 21 April 1880, Marsjo Norrgard, Annerstad

The entire family emigrated to the US in 3 separate groups over a period of about 5 years beginning in about 1884 - my grandfather came with his parents and younger sister, Alma, in 1888 in the last group.  They came to Minnesota to farm.  My g grandmother's sister and brother-in-law had come earlier and sent tickets back to Sweden for them to come.  When the older boys repaid the cost of their tickets, the next group came, etc. 

I find it all very interesting.  It sounds like you also have Annerstad connections. Do you still have connections there?

Vicki
 

248
Hi again,

Ok, I've got it sorted.  :)  So, I'm back in business!

Thanks again - still wonder how you came to speak/write English so well!

Vicki

249
Yvonne,

Thank you very much for the translation for Johan Jöransson's death record and also for the helpful pronunciation information!  Now that I'm more familiar with the spellings, I'll work on my pronunciation.  Your examples are good ones. 

Your English is excellent.  Where did you learn to speak English?

Today I realized that I have 2 Johan Jöranssons in my database along with related people so I will have to sort that out before going further.  The good thing is that all the information matches.  :)  Usually my software prompts me to check whether one person is the same as another, for some reason this didn't get caught.  It may be because they were removed from my tree earlier when I couldn't prove a direct connection.  I left the information in my database but detached from my family tree.

Thanks again for your ongoing help!

Vicki

250
Yvonne,

Thanks again for this information.  I was able to find all the records you referenced because I knew I would find them once you told me they were there! 

I know I never would have found the death record for Johan Jöransson in Marsjö Storegård.  The handwriting was very difficult.  Can you tell what the cause of death was for him?   

And, now I realize why I decided not to include Erik as one of the children of Jöran and Kirsten - it was because the birth record for Erik only listed Jöran's name (without his last name).  There are so many Jörans listed for that time period that I wasn't sure - however, I realize now that the birthplace of Annerstad Brogård should have given me a big clue.  :)

Again, I really do appreciate all of your help - it keeps me motivated because I feel I am putting together a viable family history, not just a bunch of stuff I thinks fits.  Maybe I'll even get better at reading/using all the characters in your alphabet!  One can hope!  :)

Vicki



251
Yvonne,

Thanks you so much!  All the information is very helpful.  I thought I may have mixed up the names so I really appreciate
this information.

I will add this to the many other helpful notes I keep next to my computer.   :)  Names have been really tricky for me.  I kept looking at that birth record for Erik that you listed (this is the one that I kept coming across when thinking there must be another child there somewhere between 1720 and 1724....). Just wasn't at all sure. 

Thank you again for your help,

Vicki


252
Yvonne,

I just realized that the birth and marriage records available for Annerstad begin with the year 1708 so won't be able to find the birth records for the older sons - I'll look through what household records, death records, etc. that are available to see what I can find.

Any other ideas are welcome!

Thanks again,

Vicki

253
Hi Yvonne!  Thank you for your response - it has clarified so much I didn't understand!  Wow,  also I'm glad that you have found a connection between our families!  Very interesting.   :)

I have also found the children Lars and Christian.   I am having a little problem with the name Jöran as the J's are not written always the same. 

These are the children that I think belong to them:

Christian Jöransson born 20 Nov 1714  (both J's in Jöran Jonsson look same)
Annerstad-G-CI-1-1708-1750-Image-14-Page-23
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30808?image=14

Brita Jöransdotter born 30 Sept 1716 born in Skäckarp - not sure if the father's name is Jöran or not, will you take a look? The J's look different.  
Annerstad (G) CI:1 (1708-1750) Image: 17 Page: 29
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30808?image=17

Lars Jöransson born 31 Jan 1718 Annerstad Norreg. The 2 J's look different.
Annerstad (G) CI:1 (1708-1750) Image: 19 Page: 33
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30808?image=19

Karin Jöransdotter born 15 Feb 1724 in Annerstad (both J's look same)
Annerstad-G-CI-1-1708-1750-Image-27-Page-49
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30808?image=27

Seems like there should be a another child between 1720 and 1724.

I found a 1713 marriage record for Jöran Jonsson and Kirstin Jönsdotter, which gives very little information about them (here we go again with the Jon and Jön) :)  I believe is says (please confirm or correct):

1713 The bachelor Jöran Jonsson from Öjarp married the maiden Kirstin Jönsdotter.

Annerstad-G-CI-1-1708-1750-Image-34-Page-63
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30808?image=34

This marriage record does not indicate that either was married previously - unless I have the wrong marriage record.  So, I will need to go back further to find out who the parents of Johan, Jon and Pehr are and will also look into death records today.

Thanks so much for this information!!  I really appreciate the help.

Vicki


254
General questions / Need help with Annerstad household record
« skrivet: 2020-10-23, 21:31 »
Can anyone help with the attached household exam record for 1718-1723?  I believe it is for my ancestor Jöran Jonsson and family, parents of daughter Karin Jöransdotter who was born in 1724 (just after this record ends).  The household record beginning with her birth year is not available. 

I'm trying to figure out whether all the people listed on the left-side are part of that same family or not.  Two of the names are crossed out - maybe they moved somewhere else and were unrelated?  Might the last 4 names be their children?  It looks like the first 2 are designated as sons (Jon and Pehr) but the last 2 names (Christian and Lars) are not designated as such (both boys).

Annerstad (G) AI:1 (1718-1723) Image: 125 Page: 237 
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18248?image=125

This record is confusing to me.  Any help in understanding it would be much appreciated!

Thank you,

Vicki

255
General questions / SV: Need help with 1741 death record
« skrivet: 2020-10-07, 15:29 »
Thank you very much!!

Vicki

256
General questions / SV: Need help with 1741 death record
« skrivet: 2020-10-07, 14:46 »
Oops, 1741 marriage record NOT death record!   :)

257
General questions / Need help with 1741 death record
« skrivet: 2020-10-07, 14:45 »
Can anyone help with the circled words on the attached 1741 marriage record?  I believe it says:

May 31 1741 marriage of  ? Nilsson from Singsjö, Vrå parish and ? and Karin Jönsdotter from parish ?

Hinneryd-G-CI-1-1712-1773-Image-258-Page-507
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30628?image=258

It looked like it said Karin Jönsdotter was from Vänneböke but then it also looks like it says socken ? - so am not sure. 

Any help with this would be much appreciated!

Thank you,

Vicki

258
General questions / SV: Question on tax records
« skrivet: 2020-09-26, 00:32 »
Tyred Jönsdotter showed up again with Hans Nilsson in 1648!  (so I guess she was still alive)   

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-7-1648-Image-2140-Page-417
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840131?image=2140&page=417

No need to answer that one!   :)

Yes, I'm still going through all the wonderful information I received a couple weeks ago!  Backing up my documentation with any/all the records I can find.

Thank you for your help!

Vicki

259
General questions / Question on tax records
« skrivet: 2020-09-26, 00:20 »
In following a Hans Nilsson in the Våkön, Vrå tax records for the years 1643-1646 I have several questions:

1643
Lists Hans Nilsson and his wife Tyred Jönsdotter and Nils Nilsson - This is what I expected...

Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Kronobergs län 1642-1820 (G) 2 (1643) Image: 3650 Page: 360
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840126?image=3650&page=359

1644
Lists Hans Nilsson and his wife Tyred Nilsdotter and Nils Nilsson - Hans was married to a Tyred Jönsdotter (see 1643) not a Nilsdotter - is this an error or am I reading it wrong?

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-3-1644-Image-3270-Page-645
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840127c?image=3270&page=643

1645
Looks like nothing was paid in tax that year - is this correct?  And, what is the word that precedes "Våkön?"

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-4-1645-Image-2040-Page-199
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840128?image=2040&page=198

1645
Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-5-1646-Image-2610-Page-260
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840129?image=2610&page=259

Only Hans Nilsson is listed - it looks like his wife is not listed - maybe she Died?  It is same on tax record for 1647.

Any help with these questions would be very much appreciated!

Thank you,

Vicki   



260
Thank you!  Very interesting - I have not come across that before!

Vicki

261
Can anyone tell me if the patronymic name on the attached 1724 death record, circled in yellow, is Jönsdotter?  It looks like a longer name (I'm looking for a Tya Jönsdotter who died in 1724 in Våkön in Vrå).

Vrå (G) C:1 (1701-1823) Image: 172 Page: 331
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=172

Thank you for your help,

Vicki

262
Hi Lars-Ola,

Thank you for this information!  What I have, then, is correct.  I mistakenly confused myself, but, I wanted to make sure what I have been documenting is correct and that what I've discovered already with Yvonne's assistance, fits together perfectly with your documentation.

Thank you so much for your quick response! 

Vicki

263
Yvonne and Lars-Ola,

Wow - what a lot of great information (which I'm still working on)!  I have a question about the exchange between the two of you on 2020-09-10 in regard to the Jöns in Våkon mentioned in the 1692 and 1695 court records.

I'm confused here about who really is the Jöns Hansson in Våkon. It seems, if I understand correctly, that the 1692 will states he is a son-in-law of Jöns Ebbesson, but the 1695 court case indicates he is a grandson of Jöns Ebbesson, his daughter's son.  If Jöns Hansson is a son-in-law of Jöns Ebbesson, who was he married to?

Your clarification on this point would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks a lot,

Vicki

264
Lars-Ola,

Your work is important and fascinating and thank you so much for sharing it with me.  You have taken on a very large task and I'm sure many, like me, will appreciate it immensely!

Thank you also to Yvonne, who took "the liberty of asking a question under the Vrå heading in this forum."  I would have not been able to connect with you on my own.

All your efforts are much appreciated,

Vicki

265
Yvonne,

Thank you very much for the further explanation, information and links!

I will check it all out! Fascinating!

Just curious, it looks like Lars-Ola is writing a book. Do you know what his book will cover?   Has he written before?  I don't know if he is continuing to follow this topic, but if so, maybe he will answer my question.

Thanks again for all you have done to help me with my research.  I really appreciate it!

Vicki





266
Yvonne,

Thanks so much reviewing my very rough translation (a combination of translation software and dictionaries)! 

Dollars! Yes, that was the translator!  I know better!   :)

I wasn't quite sure how to say the "tax books" or "local court sessions" so I have fixed those instances.

Also, I was not able to find any information on Älvsborgs lösens so your explanation was really interesting!   The money was basically used to buy back their castle?

The use of unmarried man vs. farmhand made more sense in the context of the entire sentence since it says that he was unmarried but was listed the following year with a wife.

The stag and hen parties!  I might have realized that is what it meant but I wasn't able to find it.

And, corset!  I would have never figured that out!

I have a few additional questions:

1)  "Nils ingick i en sexmanna ed 1640 , då den frikände Gudmund i Hjortseryd"  -  is this saying that Nils, as a member of a group of six men who acquitted....?  or does it mean he was part of a jury at a court session?

2)  "Vid ???tinget 1723  var Trotte instämd av länsmannen Petter Hultman, anklagad för slagsmål en söndag i Vrå gästgivaregård. Enligt vittnet Jöns Johansson i Vrå, hade gästgivaren Hammar tagit tag i Trotte och tumult uppstått. Trotte fick böta två gånger tre marker silvermynt."  I'm confused on this one - does it mean that the sheriff Petter H sued Trotte?  and that is why Trotte was fined?  What does "två gånger tre marker silvermynt" - that he was fined twice or that he was fined 2 x an amount?

3) "Besökaren från Lund i Skåhne, Henning Erlandzson, klagade till sin swåger Jöns Hanßon i Wåköön om något arff och hemgift, på sin hustrus Gunnil Jönsdotters wegnar, efter dess fader Jöns Ebbaßon i Skogaryd, påståendes att han det samma måtte mechtig blifwa" - Henning is saying that he should have control over his wife's inheritance??

Thank you again for all of this!  It really broadens my understanding of the time and place!

Vicki




 






267
Yvonne and Lars-Ola,

Attached is my translation of the document from Lars-Ola.  The areas in yellow are where I don't quite understand the text so any help with that would be great!  The green area is all the information I will be going through slowly to fill in some of the blanks.   :)

I want to say thank you again for this information.  It is fantastic!!  It brings history, the times and people to life. 

Thanks again!

Vicki



268
Yvonne and Lars-Ola,

I am in the process of translating the information contained in the document from Lars-Ola.  It is very interesting!  Thank you again so much for this.

Once I have finished my translation, I will attach it for review to make sure I am understanding correctly!

What fun!

Thanks again!

Vicki

269
Yvonne and Lars-Ola,

Thank you so much for this information!  I didn't even realize there was an ongoing discussion! 

I will take a look at the information and likely will have questions! 

Thank you both for this!  Your help is very much appreciated!

Vicki

270
Yvonne,

Thank you so much for this!

I'm glad you mentioned the order of the children Hans, Gumme and Jöns, because I wondered about that.  As I reviewed your information, it started to become more clear to me which Jöns  was which in the tax record timeline. 

I was a bit nervous you might view my response as being overly simplistic.  It actually took much thought and review to get  to that point.   The biggest mistake I made was to not ask more questions upfront.  This would have prevented me from making some incorrect assumptions which totally derailed my thinking.

It is very important to me to understand and, thereby, be able to defend my research.  I know that I will not know everything I want to know, but I want to learn as much as I can.

Again, I want to thank you for your help!  It is extremely fascinating!  I've learned so much and hope I haven't discouraged you from helping me!  The families that I'm working on now are the ones that I had set aside earlier because they were too difficult for my knowledge level at the time and hoped that I would, having learned more, be able to continue researching these families later with more success. This  family has been particularly difficult because of all the Jöns and Gummes.

Thank you again,

Vicki 

271
Yvonne,

This is my interpretation after further review.

Jöns Ebbasson had 2 daughters:
    One Jönsdotter married Jöns Hansson
    The other  Jönsdotter (Gunnil) married  the customs official.

Jöns Hansson and the first Jönsdotter (listed above) had 3 sons:
    Jöns (who had received inheritance in Annerstad from his mother's father)
    Hans (who married and moved to Skogaryd, Annerstad, raised a family and died there)
    Gudmund (my Gudmund) who eventually took over the father's farm in Våkön, married Kirstin Jönsdotter, had 3 daughters Karin, Ingebor and Kirstin.

It appears that Trotte is a Jonsson, not a Jönsson, and unrelated to Gudmund as far as I can tell.

I have to look into Gudmund's wife - Kirstin Jönsdotter, I don't see any connections here in any of the information.

I still have some loose ends to fit in, but I'd like to see if I have this right or not before adding those pieces.

Wow, the thing that makes it so difficult is the recurring name Jöns, no patronymics, and my lack of general knowledge.  It is very interesting and a lot of work.  Without your help and that of many others, I would be so totally lost, I would have reached a stopping point well before now.

Thanks so much for all the help!  If I'm still wrong, well, I guess I've reached the stopping point with this particular family.   :)

Vicki

272
Yvonne,

I set this aside for the day and reviewed again this evening with a fresh mind. I think I finally see what you are trying to tell me. Before I write it, I want to review again in the morning.  I hope that it is finally sinking in.  :)

Regardless, I want you to know that I have really appreciated all that you have done to help my understanding.  I have learned a lot.

Thanks so much,

Vicki

273
Your translations are very good and I appreciate your help.  I didn't initially understand that the property Jöns inherited was in Annerstad, not Våkön. 

I apologize for my error.  It may just be that I'm getting in too far over my head. :)

Maybe I just need to slow down.

Thanks for all you've done to help,

Vicki



274
I was confused on that last part, incorrectly assuming that one of the Jöns listed in the tax records was the son of Hans Jönsson, Jöns Jönsson.  I had assumed that he lived there after inheriting property in Våkön from his grandfather:

 
Citera
Jöns Ebbasson in Skogaryd (Annerstad) signed his will there 9th of May 1692 whereby he gave his daughter's son Jöns Jönsson in Wåkön all of his remaining property

I am ultimately hoping to figure out how "my Gudmund" fits into the picture in Våkon.  I have trouble sorting out which Gumme/Gudmunds are related to the family and which are unrelated. 

I really appreciate your help,

Vicki


275
Oh, I have a lot to learn, especially understanding how the properties divided, etc. and how the multiple families can live on the same property. I was looking at the naming and figured that, since we know that, Jon Trottesson owned property there, that Trotte Jonsson would likely be his son.  And the tax records for for 1693 and 1695 show a Jöns and wife with both a Hans and a Gudmund.  I thought maybe they were the sons of Jöns Jönsson (Hans named after his father's father) and Gudmund (?).  But, there are so many things to consider and I just don't have enough understanding yet.

I really appreciate your help,

Vicki

276
 Maybe Hans and Gudmund are both the sons of Jöns Jönsson (son of Jöns Hansson) and Trotte Jonsson is the son of Jon Trottesson.  :)

Thanks again,

Vicki

277
In that article about Jöns Hansson's family living at Håkön for 70 years - was there some kind of dispute over the property in 1676?   

Thanks!!

Vicki

278
It makes perfect sense!   I had the same thought that Jöns Hansson, the father of Jöns Jönsson, would have lived at Våkön  for many years prior to his son inheriting property in 1692 from his maternal grandfather, Jöns Ebbasson.

The Jöns Hansson's long history there must have ended in 1699 when Joen Trottesson purchased the property - correct?  1715 and after we begin seeing mention os a Trotte Jonsson who must be his son?

I'm still confused about who the father of Gudmund is - do you think his father is the Jon buried May 1 1710 in Våkön? If so, that would fit timewise well within the 70 years (probably) of the Jöns Hansson family reign.  If so, how does he fit into the family?  Would he be a son of Jöns Jönsson or a brother?  Or have I just been looking at this too long?  :)

Thanks for all your help!

Vicki









 

279
I guess I entered ??? and got that "huh" emoji!  Didn't mean that! :)

Vicki

280
Yvonne,

Previously you wrote:

Citera
Sunnerbo dombok 1695


Jöns Ebbasson in Skogaryd (Annerstad) signed his will there 9th of May 1692 whereby he gave his daughter's son Jöns Jönsson in Wåkön all of his remaining property. His son in law, the customs official in Lund in Skåne county, is requesting inheritance after his father in law Jöns Ebbasson in Skogaryd on behalf of his late wife (Gunnil Jönsdotter) and her children. He is therefore requesting this from his brother in law Jöns Hansson in Wåkön. See
https://www.sunnerbo.nu/Sunnerbo-dombok-1695.s37

I looked at the attached link and this is what I think it is saying (and I may be way off here) but here goes:

In 1692 Jöns Ebbasson made a will giving all his remaining property in Våkön to his grandson Jöns Jönsson, the son of his daughter with husband Jöns Hansson.  In 1695, his daughter Gunnil's husband , the customs official in Lund, Skåne county, contested this will (on behalf of Gunnil who had previously died).  The customs official was appealing to his brother-in-law, Jöns Hansson, in order to receive an inheritance for Gunnil's children.  It looks like his case failed, the will was upheld.  ???

If any of that is correct, it seems that the Jöns Hansson was the Jöns living there from at least 1692 through 1695, probably longer (maybe up to 1699, the tax records fo 1696-1700 are missing).  They had children Hans and Gudmund with them.

The next available tax record is for 1701 and it looks like a different family lives there.  This fits with the another case you mentioned:

Citera
Joen Trottesson in Wåkön announced his purchase of 1/8 Wåkön 1699

In 1699 Joen Trottesson purchased this property.  (That would be Jön, correct?)

In 1701 the tax record (first available after this purchase) for Våkön, shows a Jon and wife (Jon Trottesson and wife) living there with a dr Gudmund - there is a note on this tax record that "he" is from Embo - not exactly sure who "he" is - maybe saying the Gudmund is an unrelated farmhand?

Let me know if any of this is correct!  :)

Thank you so much for your ongoing help,

Vicki








281
Thank you for your words of encouragement!  It is very interesting and enjoyable work.  So I will continue on my way...   :)

I'm glad you are leaning toward Jon/Trotte family being just neighbors because I have not seen any indication that they are brothers. It really gets tricky when they have similar names. It may well be that they, as you say, married into Jöns family and may be ancestors of Karin (or not).   I appreciate your thoughts and hints on how to proceed.  I'll keep working on this along with the other information you have given me and whatever I discover along the way.

Thanks again so much for your help,

Vicki 

282
Yvonne,

I've been catching up on the information you've given me so far - I'm sorry it takes me so long, but I'm trying to look at everything as closely as possible so I don't miss anything!  :)   I've been alternating between the the Gudmund/Trotte questions and information for other families and makings updates as we learn more. 

Tomorrow I'll continue...

Thanks again so much for all of this information!

Vicki

283
Yvonne,

Here is the timeline showing who was living at Våkön from 1670-1730:

1670   Jöns and widowed mother
1671   Jöns and wife and (poor) widowed mother
1672   Jöns and wife
1673   Jöns and wife
1674   N/A
1675   Jöns and wife
1676   Jöns (deathly ill) and wife and Jon (who is he?)
1677   N/A
1678   N/A
1679   N/A
1680   Jöns and wife & Jon and wife
1681   N/A
1682   N/A
1683   N/A
1684   N/A
1685   N/A
1686   N/A
1687   Jöns and wife
1688   N/A
1689   Jöns overaged/sick and wife and Hans
1690   Jöns overaged and wife and Hans
1691   Jöns lodger overaged and wife and Hans
1692   Jöns and wife and Hans
1693   Jöns and wife and Hans and Gudmund
1694   Jöns and wife and Hans
1695   Jöns and wife and Hans and Gudmund
1696   N/A
1697   N/A
1698   N/A
1699   N/A
1700   N/A
1701   Jon and wife and Gummun "note: he belongs to Embo"
1702   Jon and wife and dr Gumme
1703   Jön and wife and Gudmund
1704   Jön and wife and Gudmund
1705   Jon and wife and Gudmund
1706   N/A
1707   Jon and wife and Gumme
1708   N/A
1709   N/A
1710   N/A
1711   N/A
1712   N/A
1713   N/A
1714   N/A
1715   Trotte and wife and Gumme and wife
1716   N/A
1717   Trotte and wife and Gumme and wife
1718   Pär and wife and Gumme and (sick) wife
1719   Pär and wife and Gumme and (sick) wife
1720   N/A
1721   N/A
1722   N/A
1723   Trotte and Gumme and Pär and Nils
1724   Trotte and Gumme   
1725   Trotte and Gumme & p. Bengta
1726   Gumme and Trotte
1727   Gumme and Trotte
1728   Gumme and Trotte Jonsson
1729   N/A
1730   Jöran (poor) and Trotte Jönsson (Våkön)
1730   Gumme Jonsson (Össjöhult)

Now I'll review again, taking the newest information from you into account.

Thanks again for ongoing help!

Vicki

284
General questions / SV: Need help with 1689 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-09-06, 22:51 »
Thank you!  I thought word was abbreviation for  inhyses.  :)  See how easy it is for me to wrong?  I'm trying, but better to ask those know!

Thanks again,

Vicki


285
Wow!!  THANK YOU!   That is really interesting! 

I'm reviewing the timeline starting from 1670 tracking who was living at Våkön for each available tax year, my handwriting isn't great so I'm putting in a spreadsheet and double-checking the spelling of the Jöns/Jons.  :)  I need to get a good overall picture of it since there are a lot of gaps in the timeline.  I will send you the years/names if that would be of any help you also.   I need to look at it in light of what you just sent.  This is the start it:

1670   Jöns and widowed mother
1671   Jöns and wife and (poor) widowed mother
1672   Jöns and wife
1673   Jöns and wife
1674   N/A
1675   Jöns and wife
1676   Jöns (deathly ill) and wife and Jon (who is he?)
1677   N/A
1678   N/A
1679   N/A
1680   Jöns and wife & Jon and wife
1681   N/A
1682   N/A
1683   N/A
1684   N/A
1685   N/A
1686   N/A
1687   Jöns and wife
1688   N/A
1689   Jöns lodger ? and wife and Hans
1690   Jöns lodger and wife and Hans
1691   Jöns lodger and wife and Hans
1692   Jöns and wife and Hans

I'll send you the rest shortly, unless it isn't useful to you.  Just let me know!

Thanks so much!

Vicki

286
General questions / Need help with 1689 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-09-06, 22:23 »
Can anyone confirm my understanding of the attached 1689 tax record?

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-36-1689-Image-1260-Page-845   https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840160b?image=1260&page=843

Våkön Jöns lodger ? and wife and dr Hans

Thanks for your help on this,

Vicki

287
Thank you so much! Never fear you are giving me too much information!  I will gladly look into whatever I get! 

I started writing you this morning but wanted to wait until I had something solid to tell you!  So far, I've had more questions than answers! 

I will keep you informed of what I find!

Thanks so much for your ongoing help,

Vicki

288
General questions / SV: Need help with 1676 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-09-06, 16:51 »
Thank you for this information!  It helps my understanding.  I'll review all my notes and keep digging!  :)

Thanks again,

Vicki

289
General questions / SV: Need help with word on 1671 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-09-06, 16:15 »
Great!  Thank you for this !  It will definitely help figure out the generations!

Your help is very much appreciated,

Vicki

290
General questions / Need help with 1676 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-09-06, 16:14 »
Can anyone help me understand the attached 1676 tax record?  It looks like maybe someone died? 

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-28-1676-Image-1110-Page-1123
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840152?image=1110&page=1123

There have been a lot of Jon/Jöns in tracing this family back and I'm to determine how many generations lived at this farm.  There is an interesting tax record for 1680 (also attached) where there is a Jöns and wife and a Jon and wife living there.  I've looked at all the tax records from the first one where I found them in 1670 through 1730 (so far) and am trying make sense of it all, assuming all the Jon/Jöns are related and if I'm understanding correctly.  Hopefully, understanding all the words will help.  Very confusing!

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-29-1680-Image-1240-Page-956
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840153?image=1240&page=954

Your help would be much appreciated!

Thank you,

Vicki

291
General questions / SV: Need help with word on 1671 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-09-06, 15:29 »
Thank you! 

That helps explain the 1670 tax record - Please see attached.  In the 1670 tax record there is another word that I don't understand, does anyone know what that is?  Is it mother?  as in widowed mother?

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Jönköpings-län-1643-1820-F-28-1670-Image-1030-Page-533
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v843408?image=1030&page=533

Any help would be appreciated!

Vicki

292
General questions / Need help with word on 1671 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-09-06, 01:17 »
Can anyone tell me what the circled word is on the attached 1671 tax record?  Jöns and his wife are being taxed.  Maybe it relates to the third person (poor) who is being taxed?

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Jönköpings-län-1643-1820-F-29-1671-Image-1350-Page-1843
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v843409?image=1350&page=1843

Thanks for your help!

Vicki

293
Wow!  What you have found is really interesting!  I was a bit thrown by finding a Hans!  Wasn't sure at all where he might fit in.

Thank you so much for your help and ALL the help I receive from everyone.  It motivates me to continue working hard at it.  I am learning so much and totally enjoying the work!

Thank you again for your ongoing help,

Vicki

294
General questions / SV: Question about tax classifications
« skrivet: 2020-09-05, 14:40 »
Thank you for your explanation!  I hoped that was the case but wanted to ensure that I wasn't incorrectly assuming (unrelated) farmhands were sons. 

This helps a lot!

Thank you,

Vicki

295
Yvonne,

Not sure what I did wrong, but I'm resending....

I've been going through tax records today for Våkön.

You wrote:

Citera
In Wåköen Trotte and wife Märta have the children Ingärd 17171119, Jon 171712 bg 22, Ingred 17220112, Per 17230222, Pär 17250215, Jon 17280104, Annika 17310224. Trottes last name not clear yet.

I found Trotte's last name listed as Jönsson in 1728 and 1730:
1728    Riksgäldsarkiven-Riksens-ständers-kontor-Kammarkontoret-GIg-815-1728-Image-1620-Page-315
1730    Riksgäldsarkiven Riksens ständers kontor Kammarkontoret GIg:817 (1730) Image: 1830 Page: 361

The 1707 tax record lists Jon and his wife and Gumme.
Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Kronobergs län 1642-1820 (G) 49 (1707) Image: 1760 Page: 1923

The next available tax record is for the year 1715 and neither Jon nor his wife are listed.  Instead, both Trotte and Gudmund are listed along with their wives.  Their father, Jon, died in 1710 so that makes sense. 
Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-50-1715-Image-1650-Page-2069

I've seen records of the parents (Jon and wife) with son Hans and with son Gudmund, but not with Trotte, at least not yet.

I've got a lot of work to do.  :)

Thanks so much for your help,

Vicki


296
Yvonne,

I've been going through tax records today for Våkön.

You wrote:

Citera
In Wåköen Trotte and wife Märta have the children Ingärd 17171119, Jon 171712 bg 22, Ingred 17220112, Per 17230222, Pär 17250215, Jon 17280104, Annika 17310224. Trottes last name not clear yet.

I found Trotte's last name listed as Jönsson in 1728 and 1730:
1728
1730    Riksgäldsarkiven Riksens ständers kontor Kammarkontoret GIg:817 (1730) Image: 1830 Page: 361

297
Thanks very much for that information! 

Vicki

298
General questions / Question about tax classifications
« skrivet: 2020-09-05, 03:13 »
A general question on how tax classifications are determined:

Is it possible for an older son who continues living and working on a farm with his parents at, for example, age 29 or 30, to be listed as dr Gumme, instead of son Gumme and taxed as drang (farmhand) instead of son (bachelor)?  Does it make a difference? 

Any insight would be much appreciated!

Thank you,

Vicki




299
Thank you for this.  It is very interesting.  You are correct that I have not done any research in these books.  It may be very difficult, as you have pointed out.  I see they can be accessed through Riksarkivet.  I will add this to my "todo list."  Sounds like it may be too difficult with my lack of knowledge of the Swedish language.  But... I never thought I'd be moving around in the tax records, estate inventories and sometimes even the military records! So... hope springs eternal.  :)

Thanks a lot for this information!

Vicki

300
Thank you!  I appreciate your input on this.  It is confusing.   :)  I'll see if I can find more information before going further back.

Thanks again for your help,

Vicki

301
Does "he" refer to Gummun (Gudmund)?  His father's name is Jon or Jön.  Embo also has a Jon and wife living there.  So I need to determine which Jon is his father I guess.  I've followed Gudmund through the 1720's in Våkön.   Looks like I need to pause on this line for now until I (hopefully) learn more.  Or am I misunderstanding what you are telling me? 

Thanks for your help!

Vicki

302
Very interesting!  Thank you so much. 

I didn't think Lars was correct, but wasn't sure what it was! 

Thanks again,

Vicki

303
Thanks a lot for confirming this! 

Your help is much appreciated,

Vicki

304
Can someone confirm or correct my interpretation of the circled names on the attached tax record for Våkön?  They are hard to read.

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-40-1693-Image-1310-Page-1468
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840164?image=1310&page=1466

I think it says:

Våkön Jon ? and wife
Son Lars and son Gudmund

Your help would be much appreciated!

Thank you,

Vicki



305
Can anyone confirm that the headings for the third column is for daughters and fourth column is for sons?  I believe that is correct but would like to confirm it because sometimes I am not sure in listing whether someone is a farmhand or son. Which columns are for pig. and drangen?

ArkivDigital: Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Kronobergs län 1642-1820 (G) 42 (1695) Image: 1510 Page: 1243
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840166?image=1510&page=1279

Thanks a lot of your help,

Vicki


306
General questions / Need help with note on 1701 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-09-04, 22:28 »
Can anyone tell me what the circled note says on the attached 1701 tax record?

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-43-1701-Image-1190-Page-1605
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840167?image=1190&page=1603

Thanks for any help with this,

Vicki

307
General questions / SV: Need help with note on 1719 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-09-04, 21:42 »
Yes, I should have figured out!  I realized it once I saw the 1718 record which was easier for me to read.  Please see attached.
 Sorry about that.

Thank you so much for your help! 

308
General questions / Need help with note on 1719 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-09-04, 21:03 »
Can anyone tell me what the circled note on the attached tax record says?  Is it something about being married?

Riksgäldsarkiven-Riksens-ständers-kontor-Kammarkontoret-GIg-808-1719-1720-Image-2550-Page-501
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v835372?image=2550&page=499

Thanks for your help!

Vicki

309
Interesting.  I was wondering where the Carl came from also.

My maiden name is Carlson .  :)  My grandfather was an immigrant.  I'll let you know if I find a connection! 

Thank you for the help!

Vicki


310
Great!  Thank you so much!  I'm really glad you pointed out that Johan Nannesson is not the father of Gudmund because I have not been able to prove that part. 

It is a very slow process for me but a very enjoyable task.  I'm happy that i have understood much of it but know that I have missed parts that I couldn't figure out so your help is very much appreciated!!

I'll continue working .... :)

Thanks again,

Vicki

311
Yvonne,

I have been working on all this information and in the process I've found another estate inventory that is interesting. 

You previously wrote:

Citera
Johan Nannesson died 1752 75 years old born ca 1677. I think (his son?) Gudmund mentioned above married the daughter of Gumme, Ingeborg, sister of your Karin. Needs to be checked.  (referring to your comment: 17251004 Gudmund born, father Johan Össja Torpa sn - where does he fit in?)

I found the 24 Feb 1751 marriage record in Össjöhult for Gudmund Johannesson and Ingebor Gudmundsdotter.
Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-9-Page-11

Also their 3 children born in Össjöhult:
Johannes b. 1752 Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-73-Page-137
Gudmund b. 1754  Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-76-Page-143
Carl 1759 b. 1759  Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-83-Page-155

Gudmund Johannesson died 13 June 1762, age 37 in Össjöhult, Vrå.  The estate inventory was done in Oct 1762.  There are lots of names, and I wonder if you would take a look at my "very rough" translation and let me know if I'm on the right track.  I know I am not getting all of it. 

This is from the first page of the estate inventory  Sunnerbo-häradsrätt-G-FII-2-1759-1764-Image-85-Page-131

Year 1762 18 October - an estate inventory was conducted after the death of danneman Gudmund Johansson in Össjöhult, Vrå parish. 

His widow Ingebor Gudmundsdotter in Össjöhult is being represented by her mother's brother Håkan Jönsson in Mäste.

His son Johannes, 12 years old, is represented by dannemann Sven Johannesson.  maybe his uncle - dad's brother?

His son Gudmund, 8 years old, is represented by danneman Nils Pårsson in Össjöa, Torpa parish.

His son Carl, 3 1/2 years old, is represented by dannemann Johannes Gudmundsson in ? and Veinge parish in Halland.

I'm going to work on the last page next where there are more names and relationships I think.

Any help you can give would be much appreciated. 

Thank you for the ongoing help with this,

Vicki




312
I found this word - now that I know how to spell it - Vattusot = Dropsy.   :) 

Thanks again!

Vicki

313
Thank you so much!

Vicki

314
General questions / Need help with words on 1762 death record
« skrivet: 2020-09-03, 21:48 »
Can anyone tell me what the highlighted words are on the attached death record?

Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-188-Page-363
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=188

I think the first word may be danneman (it says that on the estate inventory register listing) but I have no idea what the other part is. 

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you,

Vicki

315
Thanks very much! 

Vicki Cihla

316
Yvonne,

Wow!  - You've really kept me busy.  I am continuing to research and document everything you sent.  So far I am comfortable with my understanding of the most all of the relationships, except for a few people I have "leftover."    :) But, I'm hoping as I work through all of the people, maybe I'll find a place for everyone to fit!   

Thanks again for your help,

Vicki

317
Can anyone tell me what the cause of death is on the attached death record?

Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-187-Page-361     
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=187

Thanks very much,

Vicki Cihla

318
Thank you for all of this information!  I know that the birth years listed on household records are often inaccurate, but I've been pretty fortunate overall in that most have been within a year or two.  Ingeborg Pehrsdotter really died young - only 30 years old in actuality. 

Eventually there is a point where it is not possible (sigh) to definitively prove further relationships, but it is amazing how much you can piece together using all available records this far back. 

Today I will continue working on Karin Gudmundsdotter's family!  Before I move on to another family, I am going to take a further look at Pehr Jönsson and focus more in Össjöa in Torpa. I may have more questions!

Thanks again for all your help!

Vicki Cihla


319
Thank you again for all of the information! 

I believe you are correct that Ingierd Persdotter is not the child of Pehr Jönsson and Karin Gudmundsdotter.  I have deleted this child from that family.

Ingebor Pehrsdotter and Lars Bergesson's first daughter named Kierstin died 16 Apr 1775 of Bröstsjuka (chest sickness) at Össjöa, Torpa, age 6 yrs.  Torpa (G) C:3 (1773-1860) Image: 209 Page: 407

1780 death record for Lars Bergesson's first wife Ingeborg Pehrsdotter shows she died of Krafta (cancer), correct?  Also, her age at time of death is listed as 37 years old, which I would have thought would be 30 years since she was born in 1750.   Torpa-G-C-3-1773-1860-Image-214-Page-417

On the 1784-1800 Torpa household record for Lars Bergesson and second wife Ingiård Håkansdotter listed 2 daughters: Karin b. 1773 and Kiersten b. 1779 - those would both have been Ingeborg Pehrsdotter's children (1st wife) and the 1779 date is inaccurate as it should be 1777.   Torpa (G) AI:2 (1784-1800) Image: 99 Page: 183

Also, regarding Pehr Jönsson - I think you are right, that he was born somewhere other than Hjortseryd, Vrå - I'm still thinking is is from Torpa, maybe Össjöa.  What do you think?  Maybe it will be impossible to discover for certain since he doesn't seem to have come from Hjortseryd, Vrå  and the birth records in the range of his supposed birth year are missing in the Torpa birth records - I have checked and rechecked the available birth records around that time.

I'm currently working on the information you sent regarding Karin Gudmundsdotter, which I hadn't start on yet and so is all new.  The places and names are very unfamiliar sounding at this point so I am being very careful going through it all.

Again, I really appreciate all the help you are giving me with this!  I'll continue tomorrow...    :)

Vicki Cihla

320
Thank you!  Thank you!

Looks like i have plenty of work this afternoon!

Thanks again,

Vicki

321
Yes, I totally agree with you on those comments.  I left Ingierd on there for further investigation and use in checking name patterns, knowing it was too soon, but wasn't yet sure what was good info or not.

And I bet you are correct about the daughter Ingeborg b. 1750 which i accidentally omitted when sending my response in haste.  :(   I just checked the household records for Össjöa and Lars Lars Börjesson is married to Ingierd Håkånsson (not sure of using the correct letters on this name)- maybe this is a second wife?  It is the earliest household record.  They have a daughter Karin b. 1773. and a daughter Kiersten b. 1779.

Torpa (G) AI:2 (1784-1800) Image: 99 Page: 183
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v19647?image=99

I also tried a quick search in Vrå for a marriage record for Ingeborg and Lars but didn't see it there but I need to recheck and also check Torpa. 

I have to do a couple errands this morning and I will be back....

Thanks so much for all your doing to help me!  It is fascinating. 

Wish I could keep up with you!!  I feel so slow at researching compared to you so I apologize if my responses are slow.

Thanks again,

Vicki Cihla

322
Thank you VERY much for this information!!  You have given me a lot to look into and I'm looking forward to it!

Regarding Per, I think we may never know much more about him.  I'm happy to have discovered as much as I have about this family as they have been very challenging.

You have given me a lot to look into and I'm looking forward to digging in. 

Thank you again for all of this information! 

I really appreciate it!

Vicki Cihla






323
Yes, I've looked at the witnesses on each child's birth record, nothing really stood out but I will take another look.  I've also been looking at other possibilities for children born to a Jöns.   There are so many Jöns!  Not always sure how to know which to follow so it is a slow process! It is very interesting work, but I want it to be accurate!  I'm open to any suggestions!

Your help and input is very much appreciated! 

Thank you for all your help,

Vicki Cihla

324
I should add that there is an estate inventory for Karin Gudmundsdotter in 1795 that mentions Carl Pehrsson in Balkeryd, Torpa.  So I feel that part is pretty solid.

But, I don't have any idea for certain where Pehr Jönsson was born - could be Vrå or Torpa.  If it is Torpa, those birth records are missing from the listings, and I couldn't find on in Vrå.  I looked at the 1727 tax records for Hjortseryd for Jöns when I thought I might find his son with him.  That is where I started looking - and found a Jöns and son Pehr.  Might not even be the right people....

Riksgäldsarkiven-Riksens-ständers-kontor-Kammarkontoret-GIg-814-1727-Image-1610-Page-315
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v835378?image=1610&page=315

But this may be way off.

So, again, any help would be very much appreciated,

Vicki Cihla

325
I just was sending that same link when you sent it to me!  How interesting!   

i have very little information to go on here and I am inclined to agree with you.  Basically, this is how I got there, starting with his son Pehr:

Pehr Jönsson b. 1708 (either Vrå or Torpa) married Karin Gudmundsdotter b. 1716.  They are listed on the 1784-1788 household record at Össjöa Backstugan, Torpa. This is where I got their birth years.

All of their children were born in Össjöa, Torpa: Jöns b. 1738, Carl b. 1740, Gummund b. 1743, and Ingierd b. 1744.

I could not find a marriage record in Torpa so I checked surrounding parishes and found a 1736 marriage record in Vrå for a Pehr Jönsson and Karin Gudmundsdotter - I believe this is the correct marriage record for them.

But, this is where it gets confusing - the Vrå marriage record says that Pehr is from Hjortseryd and Karin is from Ösjöhult.  Since I don't have either birth record I don't know if they is where they were born. 

There is also a 1761 tax record in Össjöa, Torpa listing Pehr and son Carl (Carl appears on many of the tax records).

I have also have Pehr Jönsson's death record in 1790 in Össjöa, Torpa and his wife Karin Gudmundsdotter death record in 1794 in Balkeryd (this is where their son Carl and family where living).

So that is what I know.   If you see any errors in my thinking, please let me know!

Any direction you can provide would really be appreciated!

Thanks for your help,

Vicki Cihla



326
I'm sorry - If he is there, I cannot find Jöns Larsson Bolmström in the GMR for Kronobergs regemente for either Södra Sunnerbo or Norra Sunnerbo for 1721 or 1728.

He must be there so I'm not sure why I cannot find him.

Any further help would be greatly appreciated,

Vicki Cihla

327
Thank you very much - yes, Sunnerbo is usually where I've found them and didn't realize that is where I should be looking for this man.  I'm far from an expert in military knowledge!  But, I'm slowly learning.   :)

Thanks a lot for this!

Vicki Cihla

328
On AD, I'm trying to access the GMRs for 1721-1728 for Kronobergs regemente , Ljungby Kompani - 
Kronobergs regemente 1673-1907: 5. kompaniet (Ljungby) - but I keep getting 1840-1920 records. 

When I try to enter using the other AD listings, when I go into the year 1721, there is no option for Ljungby kompani.  So I'm confused.  Not sure how to access these records.

Maybe I should be using Riksarkivet?  Will you refresh my memory on how to access the 1721-1728 records for:
 Antagen: 1721  Avsked: 1728.
   Aktnummer: KR-05-0601-1721 Regemente: Kronobergs regemente  Rote: Ljushult   Kompani: LJUNGBY KOMPANI   Socken: VRÅ   Torpnummer: KR-05-0601

He was only in the military for about 7 years and the only years listed were 1721 and 1728 so the information may be very limited, but I'd like to see what I can find.

Thanks for your help!

Vicki Cihla

329
Very interesting!!

I'll take a look. 

Thanks so much!

Vicki Cihla

330
General questions / SV: Need help with word on 1728 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-08-30, 00:19 »
Thank you!  I've had help with this word before, but I didn't recognize it here. 

Thanks again,

Vicki Cihla

331
Ok, that makes sense. I didn't realize that he was soldier.  Now, if I only knew his name.   :) 
In my next post, he is not there, just his son is.  And in 1729, neither he nor his son is listed there. 

I'll start going the other direction in the tax records  and see if I can learn his name!

Thanks for your help! 

Vicki Cihla







332
General questions / Need help with word on 1728 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-08-29, 23:41 »
This attached tax record follows the 1727 tax record from my previous post.  On the 1727 record Jöns is listed with his son Pehr.  On the 1728 record, Jöns is not listed but only his son Pehr Jönsson with a note (highlighted).  Can anyone tell me what the highlighted word is?  Is Pehr paying any tax?  Pehr would be age 20 and is unmarried. 

Riksgäldsarkiven-Riksens-ständers-kontor-Kammarkontoret-GIg-815-1728-Image-1610-Page-313
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v835379?image=1610&page=313

Thanks for any help with this,

Vicki Cihla

333
Can anyone help me with the words I've highlighted on the attached 1727 tax record?  It looks like Jöns is poor, but I don't know what the word that follows it is.  Also, what is the highlighted word on the next line? 

Riksgäldsarkiven-Riksens-ständers-kontor-Kammarkontoret-GIg-814-1727-Image-1610-Page-315
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v835378?image=1610&page=315 - Jöns is listed and son Pär (Pehr)

Thank you for your help with this!

Vicki Cihla

334
Thanks very much!  This is very helpful! 

Vicki Cihla

335
Thanks very much!

I haven't seen that before. Does it mean spared from paying tax?  He would have been 16 years old in 1756.

Thanks again,

Vicki Cihla

336
General questions / Need help with not on 1756 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-08-29, 00:57 »
Can anyone tell me what the highlighted note says on the attached tax record?

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-63-1756-Image-3310-Page-649
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840187?image=3310&page=647

Thank you for your help!

Vicki Cihla

337
I think the second place name may be Össjöhult, still not sure of the first one.

Thanks for any help with this!

Vicki Cihla

338
Can anyone help with the place names highlighted in the attached marriage record and confirm the names?

4 January 1736 were married the young man Per Jönsson in ? and the young woman Karin Gummesdotter i  ?

Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-6-Page-5
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=6

Thanks so much for your help!

Vicki Cihla

339
General questions / SV: Question on 1738 birth record
« skrivet: 2020-08-28, 23:00 »
Thank you very much! 

Over the past 2 days I've been able to go back another generation using the tax records for this family and other techniques I've been learning from all of you.   I had set it aside earlier thinking I might never be able to go back any farther! 

Thank you so much,

Vicki Cihla

340
General questions / Question on 1738 birth record
« skrivet: 2020-08-28, 22:38 »
I think I've found a birth record that I've been looking for but it is confusing to me in the way it is written up.  Can someone confirm that the birth record attached and highlighted shows the birth information for:

18 Apr (1738) born to Per Jönsson a child in Össjöa and baptized ?? with the name Jöns.  This is followed by the list of sponsors. 

This was easy to miss and wonder why it was recorded that way - were 2 children baptized same day?

Torpa-G-C-1-1690-1747-Image-93-Page-181   
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30192?image=93

Any help would be much appreciated!

Vicki Cihla

341
Thanks very much! 

Vicki Cihla

342
Can someone confirm that the mother's (Karin) patronymic name is Gummesdotter on the attached household exam record?

Torpa-G-AI-2-1784-1800-Image-102-Page-189 from ArkivDigital 1-2-2020   
 https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v19647?image=102

Thank you for your help,

Vicki Cihla

343
Thank you!    :D

Vicki Cihla

344
General questions / Question on words on 1766 marriage records
« skrivet: 2020-08-26, 22:28 »
Can anyone tell me what the difference is between the two words I've highlighted on the attached 1766 marriage records?
Do they mean the same thing or do they have different meanings?

Torpa-G-C-2-1748-1772-Image-55-Page-105

Thanks for your help!

Vicki Cihla


345
General questions / SV: Need help with word on tax record
« skrivet: 2020-08-20, 23:01 »
It turned out that 1736 was the last tax record for Johan/Jan/Jaen at Sunnaryd Skattegård, Bolsmö.  From 1737 through 1741 his son Staffan b. 1717 began appearing as the only family member to be taxed there.  He was still listed with the family on the 1733-1742 household exam record so that makes sense.  His parents most likely were retired by then, I'm guessing.

This was another difficult one for me so I appreciate all your ongoing help!

Thank you,

Vicki Cihla

346
General questions / SV: Need help with word on tax record
« skrivet: 2020-08-20, 21:48 »
Thank you!    Jaen, good to know for future reference.   :)

Yes, I noticed the "1" that was erased, but didn't give thought to the fat "1"!

I went back and checked for a death record around that time, not there.  So, it was likely she was alive, falling into one of the categories that you mentioned.  I'll continue moving forward through the tax records until Johan/Jan/Jaen is gone, maybe she will show up again.   At least, I think I'm still going the right direction.

Thanks so much for all the help,

Vicki Cihla 

347
General questions / SV: Need help with word on tax record
« skrivet: 2020-08-20, 21:16 »
The next available tax record is 1736 (4 years later) - see attached copy.   This shows only Jan, if I am reading his name correctly here. 

Jönköpings läns landskontor (F) EIc:49 (1736) Image: 18740 Page: 4569
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v400841b?image=18740&page=4565

There's no indication on their marriage record that either was married previously.   But I did see something interesting when first trying to locate this family in the 1701 tax records (right before their marriage) their is an piga Ingeborg living there (which corresponds with where she was from in Sunnaryd Skattegård):

Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Jönköpings län 1643-1820 (F) 58 (1701) Image: 1510 Page: 716
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v843425?image=1510&page=716

There is no indication of her age and I don't know for certain if she in an Andersdotter - but I can work backward and see if I can find out.  Maybe she is a lot older.  Her first child was born in 1702 and last child in 1717, so she probably wasn't much older.  I'm guessing that Johan would have been born ca 1680 at the latest which means that in 1736 he would have only be 56.  At what age were they too old to pay tax?  She could have been maybe 5 years older.

Any thoughts?

Thanks for your help!

Vicki Cihla




348
General questions / SV: Need help with word on tax record
« skrivet: 2020-08-20, 20:51 »
Maybe I am on the right track.  Johan and Ingeborg have a daughter Rachel b. 1702 (their first child).  So I think this may be the right family.  But, I'm confused because tax is only being paid for Johan and Rachel (as a servant?).  Johan and Ingeborg are listed on the household records for Jonsbo from 1727-1733 and 1734-1740/2.  I have found no death record for her and there don't seem to be any notes about why she is not included on the tax records. 

I don't know the birth years for Johan and Ingeborg, was hoping to get an estimated birth year from death records which I cannot find (yet).  In case I've missed anything on the household records:

Household records
Bolmsö-F,-G-AI-1-1727-1742-Image-56-Page-97  (the first entries on this record - covers 1727-1733)
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18341?image=56

Bolmsö-F,-G-AI-1-1727-1742-Image-92-Page-169
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18341?image=92 (the second family listed) - covers 1734-1740 or 1742

Does anyone have any thoughts on why his wife might not be mentioned at all. Is this unusual?  I think this is still the correct family.

Your help would be appreciated,

Vicki Cihla

349
General questions / SV: Need help with word on tax record
« skrivet: 2020-08-20, 20:20 »
Thank you!  I think I am now on the wrong track.  I appreciate this information so I can backtrack.

Thanks much!

Vicki Cihla

350
General questions / Need help with word on tax record
« skrivet: 2020-08-20, 17:18 »
Can anyone tell me what the word I've highlighted on the attached tax record is -  Jan and ?

Jönköpings läns landskontor (F) EIc:45 (1732) Image: 15140 Page: 3971
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v400837?image=15140&page=3967

Thank you for your help,

Vicki Cihla


351
General questions / SV: Question about name on 1721 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-08-20, 15:55 »
Thank you very much!

I didn't want to just assume it so I appreciate your quick reply!

Thanks a lot,

Vicki Cihla

352
General questions / Question about name on 1721 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-08-20, 15:49 »
I have a question on the attached tax record in regard to the name.  It looks like Jön - could it be Johan?   This is different from other records that show him as Joh or Johan.  I think it is still my ancestor because of the note that they are poor and have 7 children.  This description fits my ancestor but want to make sure I'm still  following the right person. I know, according the household records, that they are still in Jonsbo at this time.

Jönköpings läns landskontor (F) EIc:34 (1721) Image: 3650 Page: 2427
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v400826?image=3650&page=2427

Your thoughts would be appreciated,

Vicki Cihla

353
Attached is the tax record for 1707.  I noticed they are only paying tax for the husband, 1 instead of 2 that year.  There is a one-letter note to the right of the total number- can someone tell me what that means?  All other surrounding years they have been paying tax for both husband and wife.

Thanks for any help with this!

Vicki Cihla

354
Yes, this is all very, very helpful information to help me to see the total picture!!

Thank you both!  I really appreciate it and I'm glad there's only 1 Johan!

I would have never figured this out!

Thanks again,

Vicki Cihla

355
I guess I should have picked up more from the information that Kalle sent me regarding their marriage record, now it’s starting to make more sense:

Post by: Kalle Birgersson on 2020-08-18, 00:22
He was from Sunnarö (Sunnaryd) and she was from Skattegården (which also seems to be in Sunnaryd village).  After that is "skole boo i Jonsbo", shall live in Jonsbo.


I thought that Jonsbo was a totally separate place; all of their children are listed as being born in Jonsbo.  😊

How would I know, in looking at this 1708 tax record,  that this is Jonsbo?

NOW I see how the map fits in!  Thank you, Lennart! 

This is the first time I’ve come across this situation.  Did these people run various farms on the manor? Was it one big farm?   Why were they chosen to work there?  How would their lives differ from the other farmers in the surrounding are?

Thanks very much for any help with this,

Vicki Cihla

356
Thank you for this information. Sorry for my slow reply. I had to do some errands and am just getting back to this.

I will take a look at what you sent and will likely have more questions.

Thanks again,

Vicki Cihla

357
Thank you for your responses!  Unfortunately I am still confused how/where to look for it. 

I checked for Sunnaryd in Ås in Jönköping but haven't found Jonsbo yet.  I am going to recheck as I may have missed it.  Would it be listed as Sunnaryd as the main name with Jonsbo listed under it? 

The register listing for "Jonsbo Sunnaryd" seems to be from Kronoberg län.  But the other link references Jönköping and I cannot open all links.

I apologize for my confusion on where to look.  I'll look at more records in Ås in Jönköping and will write again if I cannot find it.

Thanks again for your help,

Vicki Cihla

358
I've been trying unsuccessfully to find tax records in Bolmsö parish (Jönköping) for the farm/village called Jonsbo.  I have not been able to find it in any of the years I've checked (from 1701 to 1718) and even some random records in the 1730's and 1740's.  The handwriting has been a challenge in the early records especially, but I can't seem to find it anywhere.

If anyone can locate Jonsbo on any tax record between 1702-1718 I would be very appreciative, then, hopefully, I will be able to find it on the tax records for other years.  I'm trying specifically to locate Johan Staffansson and his wife Ingeborg Andersdotter whose children were all born between 1702 and 1717 in Jonsbo.  I believe I should be able to find them there if I can find Jonsbo.

Thanks so much for any help with this,

Vicki Cihla

359
Thank you very much! It is an interesting note about where they planned to live.  First time I've seen that.

Thanks again for your help! 

Vicki Cihla


360
Attached is a 1701 marriage record.  Can someone help me with the place names in Bolmsö for Johan Staffansson and Ingebor Andersdotter?

Bolmsö-F,-G-C-1-1688-1746-Image-80-Page-153
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30766?image=80

Thanks for any help with this,

Vicki Cihla

361
General questions / SV: Need help with word on 1753 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-08-16, 23:57 »
Thank you everyone!

Very interesting - what you are suggesting makes sense.  I'll go with that.   :)

Thanks again,

Vicki Cihla

362
General questions / SV: Need help with word on 1753 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-08-16, 23:23 »
Thank you for that. 

Any idea what relationship this person may have to the family?  It is not a daughter (at least that I know of).   I'm curious because I usually see a young person either listed as a child (daughter or son) or pigan (maid).  It looks like that was a commonly used word, trying to get context.

Thanks for your help!

Vicki Cihla


363
Can anyone help with the note on the attached tax record (highlighted)?  It looks like it relates strictly to the parents.

ArkivDigital: Jönköpings läns landskontor (F) EIc:83 (1766) Image: 35740 Page: 4783
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v400854?image=35740&page=4780

Any help would be much appreciated,

Vicki Cihla

364
General questions / SV: Need help with word on 1753 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-08-16, 22:59 »
Thanks to you both!

I haven't come across that before - I don't believe it is a daughter, so it is the same as pigan?

Thanks again for your help,

Vicki Cihla

365
General questions / Need help with word on 1753 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-08-16, 22:23 »
Can anyone tell me what the circled word on the attached tax record is?  It looks like it is used on many of the other entries also.

Jönköpings-läns-landskontor-F-EIII-7-1753-Image-4940-Page-487
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v400724a?image=4940&page=485

Thanks for any help with this,

Vicki Cihla

366
General questions / SV: Question about parish boundaries
« skrivet: 2020-08-14, 23:44 »
Great!  Thank you!

The birth record I sent was in Vittaryd, but I think that the tax record must be in Berga.  Does sound right then, based on what you just said.  (and if not there, maybe one of the other places you mention?)

This is my first experience of this kind of situation so I appreciate your help very much!

Vicki Cihla

367
General questions / Question about parish boundaries
« skrivet: 2020-08-14, 22:37 »
I am curious if it is possible that in the late 1600's/early 1700's that some of the properties that were in one parish were included in the books of the other.  My question is specifically about Berga, Kronoberg and Vittaryd, Kronoberg.

I am having trouble locating people/places in the tax records for Vittaryd parish that I think should be there. For example, I'm trying to locate the soldier Sven Bengtsson Siöberg and his wife (married in 1717).  Their children, born 1718, 1720, 1723 and 1726 were all born in Torset (modern day translation), Vittaryd while he was still a soldier.  I would think that there would be a tax record for, at least, the wife during that time period.  I also don't see a Torset listed in Vittaryd, but there are several Torsets in Berga.  At this point, I feel like I'm looking in the wrong place for their tax records.  Or maybe I just  have the place name wrong?? 

Attached is a copy of the birth record of his youngest child b. 1726 so you can see his parents names and birthplace.  Any help would be greatly appreciated! 

Vittaryd-G-C-1-1689-1820-Image-50-Page-85
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29948?image=50

Thanks again for any help with this very challenging family,

Vicki Cihla



368
General questions / SV: Need help with note on household record
« skrivet: 2020-08-14, 00:01 »
Should I be starting a new topic on this???  Would that be easier for everyone?  I was trying to keep all the military stuff together but is it getting too long?

Please let me know if I should begin a new topic or if it's ok to finish out the military questions tied to Sven Bengtsson Siöberg on this topic?

Thank you,

Vicki Cihla

369
General questions / SV: Need help with note on household record
« skrivet: 2020-08-13, 23:56 »
Thank you! 

About the shoe buckle - Not quite what I expected.   :)

but it is ALL very interesting!!

Thanks so much for your ongoing help,

Vicki Cihla

370
General questions / SV: Need help with note on household record
« skrivet: 2020-08-13, 23:33 »
Thank you!

I just found my first GMR for him that shows he's married will you take a look at the note and see if it says anything like that?

ArkivDigital: Generalmönsterrullor - Kronobergs regemente (G) 331 (1718) Image: 347 Page: 340
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v46669?image=347&page=331

Thanks so much,

Vicki Cihla

371
General questions / SV: Need help with note on household record
« skrivet: 2020-08-13, 22:51 »
I'm still catching up on all the information I so kindly received from all of you yesterday!!

Now I'm looking at his Sven B's (and Sven M's also) military records -

Will you take a look at the attached 1716 GMR for Sven Bengtsson and tell me if the notes are specifically describing his equipment?  I know it shows his age as 33 and he's been in the military for 7 years...

Generalmönsterrullor--Kronobergs-regemente-G-329b-1716-Image-297
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v46667?image=297

Thanks for your help!

Vicki Cihla

372
General questions / SV: Need help with note on household record
« skrivet: 2020-08-13, 22:46 »
Oh, wow!  Seems incredible, doesn't it, by today's norms?

Thanks for this interesting piece of information!

Vicki Cihla

373
General questions / SV: Need help with note on household record
« skrivet: 2020-08-13, 21:17 »
Thanks very much for checking this! 

I never realized that they needed to be married within a specified timeframe.  Interesting.  I might have to go back and check the other soldiers! 

Thanks again,

Vicki Cihla

374
General questions / SV: Need help with note on household record
« skrivet: 2020-08-13, 14:24 »
In trying to look closely at the marriage record of Sven and Ingeborg in 1717, I cannot tell for sure, but it doesn't look like Sven is listed as a widower.  Or does anyone else see any indication of it?  I still have more research to do so maybe I'll find out more about that.

Vittaryd (G) C:1 (1689-1820) Bild 8 / sid 5 (AID: v29948.b8.s5, NAD: SE/VALA/00428)
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29948?image=8

Thanks for your help!

Vicki Cihla

375
General questions / SV: Need help with note on household record
« skrivet: 2020-08-13, 01:36 »
Glad you noticed Sven M also - you noticed a lot more similarities!  Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this! 

The available birth records for Vittaryd begin in 1689 so it will be very close, but I will definitely be taking a look!

Thanks for all your help,

Vicki Cihla

376
General questions / SV: Need help with note on household record
« skrivet: 2020-08-13, 00:43 »
No, I haven't found anything indicating another marriage. I only found 4 children for them, 1718, 1720, 1723, and 1726.  But, I did wonder, because of his age at the time of the first birth - so I wasn't sure if I actually had all the children or not or if maybe he had been married before. 

Another thing I noticed when looking for these birth records was that the first child Per's parents are listed as Sven Bengtsson Siöman (instead of Siöberg).  There is actually another person by the name of Corporal Sven Siöman who was a witness at the second child's, (Måns) birth - December 1720, baptised January 1721.

Vittaryd-G-C-1-1689-1820-Image-44-Page-73
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29948?image=44

There is actually another person by the name of Corporal Sven Siöman who was a witness at the second child's birth:

Vittaryd-G-C-1-1689-1820-Image-46-Page-77       
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29948?image=46

When I looked him up, his name was Sven Månsson Siöman and I wondered if this might be Sven's wife's brother??  Please let me know your thoughts - of course, it needs to be proven but seems possible.  His about the same age, etc. 

SIÖMAN Swän
Släktnamn: Månsson
Född: 1691
Död: -
Antagen: 1720
Avsked: 1744
Aktnummer: KR-08-0987-1720
Regemente: Kronobergs regemente
Rote: Hörda (24)
Kompani: NORRA SUNNERBO KOMPANI
Socken: BERGA
Torpnummer: KR-08-0987
Det kan finnas mer uppgifter om soldaten än vad som visas här t.ex. familjebild eller andra värdefulla upplysningar. Kontakta gärna registret nedan för mer information. Ange soldatens namn och aktnummer.

Thanks again for all of your help!

Vicki Cihla



377
General questions / SV: Need help with note on household record
« skrivet: 2020-08-12, 23:09 »
Wow - that is incredible!

I remember looking through those records feeling very hopeless!   :)  I'm so grateful you could find it AND read it!!

Thanks again for all this great information,

Vicki Cihla


378
General questions / SV: Need help with note on household record
« skrivet: 2020-08-12, 23:00 »
Wow!  Thank you so much!!   I can't even document as fast as you can locate it!!

Your help is very much appreciated,

Vicki Cihla

379
General questions / SV: Need help with note on household record
« skrivet: 2020-08-12, 22:37 »
Ulf, I'm sorry, I didn't initially realize you sent the military information!  I'm trying hard to keep up with all of you!  I only wish I could be a bit quicker!

Thanks so much for what you sent!! 

A hearty thanks to ALL who have been helping me out with this particularly challenging family!!

Vicki Cihla

380
General questions / SV: Need help with note on household record
« skrivet: 2020-08-12, 22:31 »
Thank you so much!  How cool is that?   :) 

I actually looked there yesterday after you suggested Angelstad and I went right by it!! It was confusing because I didn't know what the household record dates actually were.  I was bouncing around so much between various places and really had no idea if I was on the right track or not.  I see  that this record includes birthdates in the 1760's so it definitely would be after they moved.

I was looking at what sent when you sent the additional military information!  Thanks so very much!!  I have been really fumbling with this one! 

Now I should be able to find the rest of the story!! (hopefully)   :)

Thanks again,

Vicki Cihla

381
General questions / SV: Need help with note on household record
« skrivet: 2020-08-12, 21:14 »
Thank you for this helpful information! 

So that means he was already dismissed by the beginning of this household record - most likely before 1740?  He entered into military service in 1709 so that would have been a long time I think.  All of his children that I have been able to find were born between 1718 and 1726, all in Vittaryd.  The children of my ancestor, Jacob Svensson (who was the youngest of Sven's children), were all born in Angelstad, but I have not found his parents with them.  I still have to fully research the other 3 children. 

I thought I might find him in the tax records for at least some of the time between 1718 and 1726 after he was married and his children were born.  And, by the time they moved to Angelstad in 1760 they would have been at least in their 70's so they probably weren't listed in the tax rolls, as you have indicated.  I haven't been able to find a marriage record either. 

I'm going to check the Angelstad death records for 1760 and after.  Since the household exam record doesn't indicate that either of them died before moving to Angelstad, I will assume, (hopefully correctly :), that they were both living at least until that time.

This one is really a challenge! 

Thanks again for this help!  It all helps me stay on track and hopefully I'll find some answers!

Vicki Cihla

382
General questions / SV: Need help with note on household record
« skrivet: 2020-08-12, 20:02 »
I've found no death records for them so far as many people are listed without their patronymic names so I'm looking at the tax records now for Vittaryd.  Can anyone tell me what the circled words are on the attached copy (same record you've already been looking at)?  One is the place name and I'm not sure what the other one is.

Vittaryd-G-AI-1-1740-1804-Image-38-Page-59
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v21183?image=38&page=59

Your help would be greatly appreciated,

Vicki Cihla

383
General questions / SV: Need help with note on household record
« skrivet: 2020-08-12, 13:51 »
Thanks to all of you for your help!

I still cannot find them.  He and wife wife may have already died before some of these early household records begin.  I will try to locate death records in the parishes Berga, Angelstad, Vittaryd.  I will also be checking the tax records and military records to see what I can find.

Thanks again for your help - if you happen to find them, please let me know!

Vicki Cihla


384
General questions / SV: Need help with note on household record
« skrivet: 2020-08-12, 00:53 »
Is Ingelstad still in Vittaryd parish?  I can't find that place listed in the household records for Vittaryd or am I misunderstanding? 

Thanks for your help,

Vicki Cihla

385
General questions / SV: Need help with note on household record
« skrivet: 2020-08-12, 00:48 »
I'll give that a try!  So far I haven't found them after 1760...  So I appreciate your ongoing help!

Vicki Cihla

386
General questions / SV: Need help with note on household record
« skrivet: 2020-08-11, 19:14 »
Thank you for this!  I'll try to find them there!

I appreciate your help,

Vicki Cihla

387
General questions / SV: Need help with note on household record
« skrivet: 2020-08-11, 13:31 »
Thank you!   I'll check that out! 

Vicki Cihla

388
General questions / Need help with note on household record
« skrivet: 2020-08-11, 01:50 »
Can anyone tell me what the highlighted text says on the attached household exam record?  It looks like it might be saying where they moved in 1760 - maybe I'm way off...

Vittaryd (G) AI:1 (1740-1804) Image: 38 Page: 59
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v21183?image=38

Thanks for your help,

Vicki Cihla


389
Great advice!  Sorry for the delayed response - I was away from my laptop and am not as good as you at responding with my phone!  :)

I will definitely take your advice in the future!

Thanks,

Vicki Cihla

390
I finally found it!  What I've discovered is that, for some reason, my search wasn't resetting properly between each attempt at finding a name.  So instead of just resetting, I went completely out of the search and tried again until I found it!

Thank you so much!  I've something else in the process!

Vicki Cihla

391
Thanks so much for this! 

I don't know what I'm doing wrong here, but I still don't find him on Centrala Soldatregistret.  I've had this issue before, so it must be something I'm doing wrong.  That's why I always like a confirmation of my search. 

I am using this link to search:

http://soldat.elektronikhuset.it/search.sv.aspx

How are you filling in these boxes?  Are you filling in other information also?
    Soldatens namn
    Släktnamn

I don't know why I'm not finding it.  If you can help me locate it, I would be very grateful!

Thanks so much,

VIcki Cihla

392
Thanks very much for checking!  I will definitely send the information to soldatregistret as I did earlier with another.

Thanks again,

Vicki Cihla

393
Thank you! Just want to be sure, as I move forward on my research, that it is correct.  And, thank you for making sure I add the dots!   :)

As long as I'm spelling it correctly, then I don't think he is included in the Centrala Soldatregistret.  That's ok.  I just want to make sure I follow up on everything!

Thanks again for your ongoing help,

Vicki Cihla


394
Can anyone confirm that the soldier's name is translated correctly as Sven Bengtsson Sioberg? 

Thanks for your help,

Vicki Cihla


395
Thank you very much! 

I appreciate your ongoing help,

Vicki Cihla

396
I forget to add the location of the household exam records I attached...

Vittaryd-G-AI-1-1740-1804-Image-38-Page-59
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v21183?image=38&page=59

Sorry about that.

Thanks again for your help!

Vicki Cihla

397
Will someone confirm/correct my translation of the attached birth record (the part before the witnesses)? 

Jacob born on 25 January (1726) and baptised on 2 February ?? Maria.  Father Soldier Sven Bengtsson Sioberg, mother (wife) Ingeborg Månsdotter at ? Soldatorp.

Vittaryd-G-C-1-1689-1820-Image-50-Page-85
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29948?image=50

I have also attached a household record for the father (soldier Sven Sioberg) which I believe is correct, but I cannot find his name in the Centrala Soldatregistret so I'm not sure if there is another spelling I should try (or maybe I mistranslated his name above).   If there is something I've missed, please let me know.

Any help with this would be much appreciated.

Thanks a lot,

Vicki Cihla

398
Thanks both you for the explanation of the notes!  I had no idea.

Much appreciated!

Vicki Cihla

399
Thank you so much!  I have been trying to find his place of birth for the last week!  There is a birth record that fits for him at that place so I will likely have more questions (which I'll post separately) - It appears his father was a soldier.   :)

Thanks again for your help, I really appreciate it!

Vicki Cihla

400
Can anyone tell me what the place of birth (circled in yellow) is on the attached household record for Jacob Swensson at Malmaryd, Angelstad? 

Also, there are two 1-word notes on the far right (circled in blue) can anyone tell what those words are? 

Angelstad-G-AI-3-1811-1820-Image-186-Page-178   
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18233?image=186

Any help with this would be much appreciated.

Thanks a lot,

Vicki Cihla

401
General questions / SV: Need help with cause of death
« skrivet: 2020-08-08, 00:25 »
Interesting!  It is so hard to understand what the meaning is for the vague descriptions of some of the sicknesses, but which I'm sure were very well understood at the time.

Thanks so much,

Vicki Cihla

402
Very interesting.

Thank you for your ongoing help!

Vicki Cihla

403
Great, thank you! 

What is the distinction of a "homestead farmer?" Is it similar to when the immigrants to the U.S. got land through the government but had to make improvements in order to keep it - they were the first settlers.  (well, not technically, but you know what I mean I think).

I guess he was old too.  :)

Thanks for your help,

Vicki Cihla

404
General questions / SV: Question on 1713 birth record
« skrivet: 2020-08-07, 23:26 »
Wonderful! 

Thanks very much,

Vicki Cihla

405
Will someone confirm/correct my translation of the attached 1798 death record?

The widower and old farmer Swen Swensson in Torp, died 2 Nov (1798) from the frailties of old age and was buried on the 18th.

Bolmsö-F,-G-C-2-1747-1814-Image-157-Page-301
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30767?image=157

Thanks so much for any help with this,

Vicki Cihla

406
General questions / Need help with cause of death
« skrivet: 2020-08-07, 22:38 »
Attached is a copy of a death record for Elin in November 1768, I think the cause of death says "ditto" which would refer me to the death record above it.  But, I cannot tell what the cause of the is on that record.

Bolmsö-F,-G-C-2-1747-1814-Image-142-Page-271
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30767?image=142 - age 55

If anyone can help, I really appreciate it.

Thanks,

Vicki Cihla

407
General questions / Question on 1713 birth record
« skrivet: 2020-08-07, 21:21 »
Attached is a 1713 birth record for which I'd like to get confirmation/correction of my translation:

On 29 March 1713 Elin Johansdotter was baptised in Jonsbo, parents Johan Stephansson and Ingeborg Andersdotter.

I am amazed at the detail of these records and their accuracy.

Bolmsö-F,-G-C-1-1688-1746-Image-50-Page-93
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30766?image=50

Your help is much appreciated,

Vicki Cihla

408
General questions / SV: Question on 1717 birth record
« skrivet: 2020-08-07, 21:05 »
Thanks very much!

Vicki Cihla

409
General questions / Question on 1717 birth record
« skrivet: 2020-08-07, 20:54 »
Will someone confirm/correct my translation of the attached 1717 birth record?

On 10 May 1717 Sven Svensson was baptised in Torp, parents Sven Svensson and Anna <blank>sdotter.

Bolmsö-F,-G-C-1-1688-1746-Image-55-Page-103
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30766?image=55

Thanks for your help,

Vicki Cihla

410
Thanks again to you both for all your help!  There's always something more to learn  :)

You're right then!  Svensson is ok!

Vicki Cihla

411
Just saw the last note - so Svensson would be ok, then? 

I was confused by the record I asked about because the two S's did not look alike! :)

Thanks so much!

Vicki Cihla

412
Thank you both for your responses. 

I had been trying to locate Ingeborg's marriage record to Jacob Svensson which had previously eluded me.  I finally found it today in Bolmsö, Jönköping.  It was trial and error, checking all the parishes near Dannäs, Jönköping where Jacob Svensson was from (according to the marriage record for his first marriage) when I couldn't find it in the familiar places in Kronoberg. 

The 1769 marriage record between the widower Jacob Svensson from Angelstad (where he was living with his first wife)  and Ingeborg Svensdotter indicates that she was from Torp, Bolmsö, Jönköping.  Jacob's first wife died in June 1768 and Jacob and Ingeborg's first child was born in 1770 so I believe I have the correct marriage record.

Bolmsö-F,-G-C-2-1747-1814-Image-168-Page-323
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30767?image=168

I've also located the 1738 marriage record for Ingeborg's parents in Bolmsö, Jönköping, Sweden.  I now believe it indicates that her parents names were Sven Svensson and Elin Johansdotter.

Bolmsö-F,-G-C-1-1688-1746-Image-94-Page-179
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30766?image=94

Now I need to locate all the birth records.  :)   And then tax records and maybe even estate records! 

If you think any of this information is incorrect, please let me know! 

Thanks again for your help,

Vicki Cihla

413
Thanks very much! 

I appreciate your help,

Vicki Cihla

414
Attached is a copy of a 1738 marriage record in Bolmsö, Jönköping.  Can anyone tell me what the place name is where Elin Johansdotter is from (circled in yellow)?

Bolmsö-F,-G-C-1-1688-1746-Image-94-Page-179
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30766?image=94

Thanks for your help,

Vicki Cihla

415
I have 2 questions on the attached household exam record for Torp, Bolmsö, Jönköping:

Bolmsö-F,-G-AI-2-1751-1781-Image-101-Page-183
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18342?image=101

* What is the Sven's patronymic name?
* Where does the note say Ingeborg went?

Your help would be much appreciated,

Vicki Cihla

416
General questions / SV: Need help with 1818 estate inventory
« skrivet: 2020-08-04, 02:25 »
Thanks a lot for the clarifications!

This is very helpful in understanding.

Much appreciated,

Vicki Cihla

417
General questions / SV: Need help with 1818 estate inventory
« skrivet: 2020-08-04, 01:23 »
Thanks very much!  So Danneman is a farmer or gentleman - they are very different words, so would it be farmer (probably) rather than gentleman?

I know I used that word list at some point but have been using an actual dictionary which I bought (but that hasn't proved to be much more helpful - mostly because you can't find a word if you don't spell it correctly!)  So, I'm always thankful for "any help!"   :)   

Jacob had 3 children with his first wife and 7 with his second wife so maybe I should maybe have guessed that.  Again, I was trying to look up tjo, which was not the correct spelling. 

What does it mean to "declare" the property?  Declaring it for the purpose of the inventory?  To make it "fair" when inventorying for the children of both marriages?

Thanks again,

Vicki Cihla



418
General questions / SV: Need help with 1816 estate inventory
« skrivet: 2020-08-03, 23:44 »
Yes, and I sure had some of the letters wrong when trying to find them in my dictionary!  The penmanship was so nice and neat and I still had it wrong.  :)

Thank you so much for the help with this,

Vicki Cihla

419
General questions / Need help with 1818 estate inventory
« skrivet: 2020-08-03, 23:32 »
Attached is an 1818 estate inventory for Jacob Svensson of Malmaryd. 

Basically I know it says they took an estate inventory after the death of Jacob Svensson on 27th April (1818) for the benefit of his heirs.

A few questions: 
* Does the word danneman simply mean husband? 
* How many children are mentioned? 
* It looks like he specifically only refers to 2 of his sons - Håkan from his first marriage and Sven from his second marriage.
* Is that the end of the commentary (does it end at the squiggly lines)?

Sunnerbo-häradsrätt-G-FII-26-1818-1819-Image-430-Page-806
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v76231?image=430

Thanks so much for any help with this,

Vicki Cihla


420
General questions / Need help with 1816 estate inventory
« skrivet: 2020-08-03, 22:45 »
Attached is the beginning of the 1816 estate inventory for Ingebor Svensson.  Even though it is very neatly written, I cannot understand all of it.

My very basic understanding is that the estate inventory was taken at Malmaryd on 1st July (1816) after the death of Ingebor Svensson.  It states that she is leaving behind a husband, Jacob Svensson, and grown children.  They had 7 children together: sons Sven and Petter, daughters Britta, Eling, Kattrina, Anna, and Lena. 

It looks like the property? stays with widower Jacob Svensson but there is a contingency?  I don't know - it was quite confusing.

Sunnerbo-häradsrätt-G-FII-25-1816-1817-Image-375-Page-720
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v76230?image=375&page=5

Any help with improving my understanding would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks so much,

Vicki Cihla

421
Thank you for this information.  It is very interesting!  Most of my ancestors seem to have used the more traditional naming patterns but it is possible that it could be a factor in how these children were (or weren't) named. 

Thanks again,

Vicki Cihla

422
Thank you to both of you!

I have looked at the sponsors and and have not found anything to help me on that front so far but will continue to look at it.

I have also had the same thought about a son named Jacob.  This has been quite puzzling, but it seems like the only likely answer is that they are all children of Samuel Larsson and Elin Jacobsdotter. 

Thank you so much for taking the time to sort through my long email and for giving ne your thoughts!

Your help is very much appreciated,

Vicki Cihla

423
The attached birth record for one of my ancestors, Catharina Samuelsdotter, lists her father’s name, Samuel Larsson, and her mother’s name, Elin with a blank space after it for her patronymic name, which was never filled in.

Catharina Samuelsdotter 1802 birth Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-134-Page-257
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=134

I found her in the following household records for Hjortseryd, Vrå, Kronoberg:

•   1803-1807 Samuel and Eling with 4 children including Catharina     Vrå-G-AI-1-1788-1817-Image-115-Page-215
•   1808-1812 Samuel and Eling with 7 children including Catharina     Vrå-G-AI-1-1788-1817-Image-156-Page-297
•   1813-1817 Samuel and Elin with 8 children including Catharina       Vrå-G-AI-1-1788-1817-Image-197-Page-379
•   1821-1832 Samuel Larsson and Eling Jacobsdotter with 8 children including Catharina     Vrå (G) AI:2 (1821-1832) Image: 25 Page: 35
•   1824-1832 Samuel Larsson and Eling Jacobsdotter with 7 children including Catharina     Vrå (G) AI:2 (1821-1832) Image: 108 Page: 201
•   1831-1835 Lists Samuel Larsson and Elin Jacobsdotter with children, Catharina has married in 1834 and is listed separately with her husband on the same page  ArkivDigital: Vrå (G) AI:3 (1831-1841) Image: 29 Page: 22

I looked at the birth records for all her siblings and found conflicting information for the mother – her patronymic name is Jacobsdotter once, Blank 3 times, Persdotter twice and Jonsdotter 3 times! 

•   Johannes b. 1800 was illegitimate, born to Elin Jacobsdotter at age 26,  no father listed.
•   Catharina b. 1802 father Samuel Larsson, mother Elin <BLANK>
•   Lars b. 1804 father Samuel Larsson, mother Elin Persdotter
•   Sven b. 1806 father Samuel Larsson, mother Elin <BLANK>
•   Anna b. 1808 father Samuel Larsson, mother Elin Jonsdotter  (Anna died same year)
•   Anna b. 1809 father Samuel Larsson, mother Elin Jonsdotter
•   Petter b. 1811 father Samuel Larsson, mother Elin Persdotter
•   Nils b. 1814 father Samuel Larsson, mother Elin Jonsdotter
•   Johanna b. 1816 father Samuel, mother Elin <BLANK>

Samuel Larsson appears in the tax records with his family from 1803 through 1839 listing children, sometimes by number and sometimes by name.  Samuel Larsson’s name was still listed, but it was crossed out, in 1840.  Eling died in March 1839 and Samuel died a couple weeks later.

I know this is a lot of information but I want to try to figure out who Catharina's mother was - all I know for sure is her first name is Elin.

I believe that my ancestor Catharina’s mother’s name was Elin Jacobsdotter – is that a fair assumption?  I also believe that Elin Jacobsdotter is the mother of all the children.  Samuel Larsson and Elin Jacobsdotter were married in Angelstad in 1801.   All the children, with the exception of Johannes b. 1800 were born within the 1801 marriage date and 1839 death dates.
.
I'd appreciate your thoughts on my assumption and/or if there's anything more I could check.

Thanks so much for any help,

Vicki Cihla

424
General questions / SV: Questions on 1787 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-07-30, 01:39 »
Thank you!  Good to know.  I wouldn't want to miss something important!

Thanks for all your help,

Vicki Cihla

425
General questions / SV: Questions on 1787 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-07-29, 23:54 »
Thanks!  Yes, I should have realized that it was the same letter as the S in Swensson!  I had been looking at another tax year where it looked more like a D, so wasn't sure.

I don't think it is "Rest" - it looks like initials R. R. B. 6.11 or something - I have no idea.  I agree it looks like it was added later.

If anyone has an idea what it is, I'd be very interested in knowing.

Thanks for your ongoing help,

Vicki Cihla

426
General questions / Questions on 1787 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-07-29, 21:17 »
Attached is a 1787 tax record for Jakob Swensson.  Can anyone tell me what the note (circled) means?  And, is Håkan a son or a farmhand? (not sure I have the dot right on his name).   :)

Häradsskrivaren-i-Sunnerbo-fögderi-1728-1920--G-FI-4-1785-1787-Image-3800-Page-133
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v365142?image=3800&page=128 

Thanks very much for any help with this,

Vicki Cihla

427
Thank you!  That's good  news! 

I appreciate your help as always,

Vicki Cihla

428
I may have made an error in my translation of the attached birth record.  Will someone confirm or correct the information I have?

Elin i Stråhult was born 30 December 1745, baptized 5 January 1746, father Anders, mother Karin. 

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=65
Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-65-Page-121.jpg

Thank you for any help with this,

Vicki Cihla


429
General questions / SV: Need help reading marriage record
« skrivet: 2020-07-28, 02:48 »
Thanks much!  That looks much more familiar!

Vicki Cihla

430
General questions / SV: Need help reading marriage record
« skrivet: 2020-07-28, 02:15 »
Thank you for that!  I know I've seen that before but, unfortunately, I don't always remember!

Thanks for your ongoing help!

Vicki Cihla

431
General questions / SV: Need help reading marriage record
« skrivet: 2020-07-28, 02:04 »
Thank you very much!  I had no idea what her name was or where he was from.

Your help is always appreciated,

Vicki Cihla

432
General questions / Need help reading marriage record
« skrivet: 2020-07-28, 01:24 »
Can anyone tell me what the highlighted 1740 marriage record attached says?  The groom's name is Anders but I cannot read the bride's name nor can I read where they are from.

Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-7-Page-7
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=7

Any help with this would be much appreciated,

Vicki Cihla

433
General questions / SV: Need help with name on birth record
« skrivet: 2020-07-28, 00:59 »
No, I don't think you should remove it!    It's very interesting!   I should have asked before. 

Have you researched the history of your property?  Has your family lived there a long time?

Thanks,

Vicki Cihla


434
General questions / SV: Need help with name on birth record
« skrivet: 2020-07-28, 00:21 »
I did translate the note, using an online translator:

Född i ett soldattorp i Bäve socken, sedan många år boende i en backstuga i Håby socken 

which says:

Born in a soldier's croft in Bäve parish, for many years living in a back cottage in Håby parish. 

Is this accurate?  Who does this pertain to?

Thanks!

Vicki Cihla

435
General questions / SV: Need help with name on birth record
« skrivet: 2020-07-28, 00:04 »
Thanks for checking that!  Anders Nilsson was also there in 1747. 

I was able to track Anders Nilsson at Stråhult from 1744 through 1765, then he just disappears (both he and his wife).  Not sure where they went.  His daughter, Elin (born 1745) is listed with Anders and his wife on the 1762 and 1763 tax records.  She is no longer listed in 1764 (she was married in 1763 so everything fits).  I checked through the 1788-1792 household records for Vrå in case they were still alive and still in that parish, but found nothing for them. 

There's no estate inventory. 

But, I'll look further for death records and other children.  So far, I've found neither. 

But, I'm still a lot further than I was with this piece of the family.   :)   So, it's all good.

Thanks to you both!

Vicki Cihla

436
General questions / SV: Need help with name on birth record
« skrivet: 2020-07-27, 22:30 »
Berge looks somewhat familiar.  I was hoping for an Anders!  :)  I know it's a stretch!

Thanks again,

Vicki Cihla

437
General questions / SV: Need help with name on birth record
« skrivet: 2020-07-27, 22:22 »
Thank you!  I haven't come across that one before.

Much appreciated,

Vicki Cihla

438
General questions / Need help with name on birth record
« skrivet: 2020-07-27, 22:09 »
Can anyone tell me what the father's name is on the attached birth record (circled)? 

Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-67-Page-125
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=67

Thanks for your help,

Vicki Cihla

439
General questions / SV: Questions on 1745 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-07-27, 21:42 »
Thank you very much for that!  That makes it much easier!   I'm trying not to miss anything.   :) 

I have been finding the tax records helpful and interesting and they have helped me to go back 1 (or 2) generation(s) further in some cases.  I wish there were more estate inventories for them!  Those are also very helpful and interesting.

Thanks again for your help,

Vicki Cihla

440
Thank you to both of you!  I didn't get that it was "child!"  I should have realized.   :-[

Thanks for clearing up the date of baptism too!

Vicki Cihla


441
General questions / Questions on 1745 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-07-27, 20:45 »
Attached is a copy of a 1745 tax record from Vrå for which I have a couple different questions:

Kronobergs-läns-landskontor-G-EV-2-1745-Image-4710-Page-1181
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v400710?image=4710&page=1179

The items circled in yellow relate to my ancestor, Anders Nilsson, at Stråhult.  The items circled in purple relate to another Anders Nilsson, at Singsjö.

1. Would properties located next to each other usually appear next to each other on the tax records? (they would be close neighbors)? 
2. It looks like one Anders Nilsson is married and one is not- so I am assuming they are two different people.  Is that correct?  (The reason I ask is because an Anders Nilsson from Singsjö is the first witness listed for the baptism of the first grandchild - so I first thought it must be Anders Nilsson the grandfather but maybe it is Anders Nilsson the neighbor!) These two Anders Nilsson both continue to be listed at the same properties continuously at least through the time this first grandchild was born-  it is very possible they are neighbors.  Very confusing.  I hope you can understand my question.  The grandchild's birth record is found at:

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=89
Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-89-Page-167

3. What does the circled note say? 

I'd like to be to clarify that these two Anders Nilssons are separate individuals, that they are not the same individual who was taxed on two different properties (I don't even know if that was possible).

If anyone can help with these questions, I'd be most appreciative.

Thanks so much,

Vicki Cihla


442
General questions / Need help with word on 1771 birth record
« skrivet: 2020-07-27, 19:52 »
Can anyone tell me what the word is that is circled on the attached copy of a 1771 birth record?

Torpa-G-C-2-1748-1772-Image-48-Page-91 from ArkivDigital 11-26-2019     
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30193?image=48

So far, my understanding of this birth record is:

In Torpa, on 1 March (1771) born to Lars Persson and wife Elin Andersdotter ??? in Torpa, baptized (i'm not clear on the date of baptism) a child named Kierstin... (I can read most of the names of the witnesses)

If anyone can help me with this word, I'd really appreciate it,

Vicki Cihla

443
General questions / SV: Need help with 1733 marriage record
« skrivet: 2020-07-26, 02:02 »
That is a great explanation!

Thanks for passing it on to me,

Vicki Cihla

444
General questions / SV: Question on 1767 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-07-26, 01:14 »
I thought that might be the case.  It's a bit tricky for me without knowing the terminology!

Thanks for all your help!

Vicki Cihla

445
General questions / SV: Question on 1767 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-07-26, 00:31 »
His farm is very small, correct?  Just a portion of the 3/8 total.

Do you ever sleep? 

Thanks for your help!

Vicki Cihla

446
General questions / Question on 1767 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-07-26, 00:07 »
Attached is a copy of a 1767 tax record with two fractions circled.  Do they represent the amount of land they farmed?  Are the two fractions related to each other or are they totally independent of each other?   

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-74-1767-Image-4740-Page-469
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840198?image=4740&page=466

Thanks for any help with this,

Vicki Cihla

447
Thank you!

Eek! Too many dots!  I'll work on it!

Thanks again,

Vicki Cihla

448
Attached is a copy of record for Lars Persson in Vrå parish.  Can anyone confirm the record I have highlighted?

I believe it is for:

Lars Persson in Äkerbergshult, married, note says he is a sexton.

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-72-1765-Image-3190-Page-313
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840196?image=3190&page=313

Thanks for your help,

Vicki Cihla

449
Thanks alot!  I could not find anything for Måns at Språxhult in the tax rolls.  It is difficult to say for certain. 

Being able to go back this far using the tax rolls and GMR records is really incredible.  I'm very grateful for all the help!  As I study each family unit, it is inevitable that I eventually run out of absolute proof but I'm documenting everything so that I can build on it if future information becomes available.  Besides, I really enjoy the learning and challenge of it but always aware of how indispensible the help and advice I receive at this forum is to my continued learning and discovery.

Thanks for all the help from everyone,

Vicki Cihla


450
I started looking through a few tax records but have not found him yet - I'm going to check all the records for Språxhult around that time - from about 1700 to 1712 more closely. 

Right now I'm on the 1711 GMR on Riksarkivet and am not sure how to find the correct #94 but I'll find it....

Thanks for your ongoing help with this.  I feel comfortable that the information I have found for him and his family, once he has become a corporal, all fits nicely into place.  But it would be really nice to figure out where he was born or originally from.   

Thanks again,

Vicki Cihla




451
Great!  I'll take a look - thanks for this!

Vicki Cihla

452
the 1711 GMR is saying that:

1. Per Andersson Tåman replaced a Måns Andersson #104 at Språxhult rote.
2. Måns Andersson (previously at Språxhult rote above) replaced the dismissed Nils Olofsson in Högahylta as the new corporal at Tommaryd.
3. Måns Andersson at Hylta rote is still in Hylta - no change.  He was #28 I asked about, correct?  (So we know, now, that this is not the same man as Corporal Måns Andersson Weckman)

Do I understand this correctly?  Does this prove that #104 Måns Andersson #104 at Språxhult rote is where the Måns Andersson the soldier began his military service and from there was promoted to corporal at Tommaryd?

Where did you find the 1711 GMR?  I didn't see it anywhere.  :)

Very interesting information - hope I understand it correctly!  Please correct me if I'm wrong on this!

Thanks so much!

Vicki Cihla 

453
Great!  Thank you for that!   I wondered what the character (line above the n) was.  Very useful information, I've come across before and should have asked about it. 

Thanks so much,

Vicki Cihla

454
Attached is a copy of a 1722 birth record.  Will someone confirm/correct my translation?

Elsa Månsdotter in Skrubberyd, born of married(?) parents on 3 September: Father Corp. Måns Weckman, Mother Ana Jönsdotter in Skrubberyd.  (she was baptized on 9 September)

Hinneryd-G-CI-1-1712-1773-Image-54-Page-99
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30628?image=54

Thanks for your help,

Vicki Cihla

455
I moved part of the question I posted on: 2020-07-23, 14:45 to a separate post to make it easier for someone to respond to the specific question I have regarding the listing of 2 names for the 1718 GMR entry nr. 507/93 for Corporal Måns Andersson Weckman where the second name listed is also Måns Andersson.

Thank you,

Vicki Cihla

456
General questions / Question on a GMR record
« skrivet: 2020-07-23, 17:46 »
Does anyone know why there would be two names under one GMR record entry?

I am specifically asking about entry 507/93, although it looks like all the entries on that page have 2 names associated with each entry.

Generalmönsterrullor--Kronobergs-regemente-G-331-1718-Image-206-Page-196
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v46669?image=206&page=166

Does anyone know why there would be 2 men listed for each entry?  Was  it just a coincidence that the 2 men associated with 507/93 had the same name? 

Thanks for any help with this,

Vicki Cihla



457
Thanks so much!  I'll see what more I can figure out based on what you just sent and look forward to hearing more from you and/or anyone else who can help!

Thanks again,

Vicki Cihla

458
In reviewing my notes, I had also found a Måns Andersson in 1710 as soldier number 28 - looks like he was also from Smaland and there are notes included - maybe he was the one who became the corporal #94?  I can't read the name of the rote he belonged to.


Generalmönsterrullor--Kronobergs-regemente-G-327-1710-Image-302-Page-296.jpg
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v46664?image=302&page=286

Thanks for any help with this,

Vicki Cihla

459
These are the other GMR records I found and they all appear to tell more of the story:

1718 GMR (nr 507) for Corporal Måns Andersson Weckman - I don't understand who the other Måns Andersson is, why he is listed, or the annotation written on this record.
Generalmönsterrullor--Kronobergs-regemente-G-331-1718-Image-206-Page-196
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v46669?image=206&page=166

1721 GMR (nr 507) for Corporal Måns Andersson Weckman - this record appears to have more information about his equipment
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v46671?image=184
Generalmönsterrullor--Kronobergs-regemente-G-333-1721-Image-184
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v46671?image=184
 
1728 GMR (nr 781) Corporal Måns Andersson Weckman - this is his final GMR record, talks about his equipment and maybe? about his exit from military service?
Generalmönsterrullor--Kronobergs-regemente-G-333a-1728-Image-408
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v46672a?image=408

His soldier number has kept changing and not always sure why. 

If anyone is willing to help shed some light on these years, I would be very grateful.

Thank you for your time and help with this,

Vicki Cihla



460
Thanks for this!  That is how it seems to me also.  I have not, so far, been able to figure out where he was born.  Even though the Centrala Soldatregistret listed his service beginning in 1710, 1709 makes more sense according to the years of service recorded on each GMR.

There is definitely a link between Torpa and Hinneryd for this family.  The daughter of Måns, Swenborg born ca. 1712, married a man (Johan Nilsson) from Hinneryd in 1733.  The Torpa marriage record states that Johan Nilsson from Wänneböke (Hinneryd) married Swenborg Månsdotter from Balkeryd (Torpa).   Swenborg's death in 1762 states her age at 50, putting her birth year ca. 1712.  I have not been able to find her birth record.

But, there are household records available for 1717-1722 in Torpa where I found the following records:

Torpa-G-AI-1-1717-1722-Image-85-Page-149
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v19646?image=85 (lists Måns Weckman, wife Anna, daughter Swenborg and son Jöns)

Torpa-G-AI-1-1717-1722-Image-86-Page-151
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v19646?image=86  (lists Corp Måns, wife Annika, and daughter Swenborg - moved to Hinneryd

Hinneryd-G-AI-1-1717-1723-Image-116-Page-110
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18565?image=116 - (lists Corp Måns Weckman and wife (unnamed) for the last couple years of that household record.

There are no household records immediately following the 1717-1722 timeframe for either Torpa or Hinneryd.

The tax records I have summarized as follows, showing how his name is listed:

1710     Balkeryd, Torpa     Not listed
1715     Balkeryd, Torpa     Widow Ingrid
1717     Balkeryd, Torpa     Corporal Måns
1718     Balkeryd, Torpa     Corporal Måns
1719     Balkeryd, Torpa     Corp Måns Weck??? (hard to read)
1723     Not in Balkeryd, Torpa anymore  - household records said he moved to Hinneryd
1724     Skrubberyd, Hinneryd     Corp Måns Wäcken
1725     Skrubberyd, Hinneryd     Corporal Weckman
1726     Not there - moved back to Torpa
1726     Balkeryd, Torpa     Corporal Weckman
1727     Balkeryd, Torpa     He is not listed - see tax record for note (not yet explained - not sure what it means)
1728     Balkeryd, Torpa     Corporal Måns Wekman - see tax record for note: "wid Regementet. At the regiment."
1729     Balkeryd, Torpa     Måns (he is no longer in military)
1730     Balkeryd, Torpa     Måns and daughter Swenborg is listed also!
1731     Balkeryd, Torpa    Måns Andersson and daughter Swenborg
1732     Balkeryd, Torpa     Måns and Swenborg - Måns is listed as "fattig" (poor)
1733     Balkeryd, Torpa     Måns and daughter Swenborg
1734     Balkeryd, Torpa     Måns and son Jöns
1735     Balkeryd, Torpa     Måns
1736     Balkeryd, Torpa     Måns
1737     Balkeryd, Torpa     Måns
1738     Balkeryd, Torpa     Måns
1739     Balkeryd, Torpa     *Johan & Måns
1740     Balkeryd, Torpa     *Johan
1744     Balkeryd, Torpa     Johan Nilsson (this is his son-in-law, married to Swenborg - Johan listed in 1739 & 1740 may be same

That is what I know so far and why I think this soldier is the father of Swenborg Månsdotter.

What do you think?

I would appreciate anyone's input who wishes to comment!

Thanks for any further help or advice/correction of my understanding,

Vicki Cihla






461
Ok, so that is very interesting - 104 is now 94? 

I don't know where he was born - I have no birth record for him.  He was not living in Torpa in 1710 or 1715.   I know he lived in Torpa in 1717 (as corporal), then moved to Hinneryd in the 1720's and then moved back to Torpa where he used the name Corporal Weckman in 1726, Corporal Måns Wekman in 1728 and then went back to using the name Måns Andersson starting in 1729, once he was out of the military.

So, I'll check it out!

Thanks for your help,

Vicki Cihla


462
Wow!  That is very interesting!  Thank you for the interesting link you send (and in English too!)  Very helpful!   :)

So - very interesting - will check out what you just sent...


He began his military service in 1710, I don't know what date. 

The first tax record I found for him was in 1717, he was already listed as Corporal Måns.

The same is true for the GMR, he was not listed yet in 1710 - it says soldier 94 (Tommaryd) is vacant, the 1713 record had no comments for him at all.  It wasn't until 1716 and 1717 that I started to find anything written up about him.  So I have no idea when he would have been promoted and why.  Is there anywhere I could look for that if it is not listed on the GMR?

I will look closer at the other GMR records I have for him and see if there's anything that gives me a clue - maybe the month/day he started, etc.

Actually, I just looked this GMR for 1718, can you tell me what that means:

Generalmönsterrullor--Kronobergs-regemente-G-331-1718-Image-206-Page-196
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v46669?image=206&page=166

Thanks so much,

463
Thank you so much!

I will definitely be researching that. 

Does either record indicate that he fought? 

I have more of his GMR records but I wanted to see what I can learn from the first two so I don't keep asking the same thing!   :) 

Thanks again,

Vicki Cihla

464
General questions / Need help with 1716 and 1717 muster roll
« skrivet: 2020-07-22, 21:54 »
Attached is a the 1716 GMR for Måns Andersson Weckman/Beckman.  (Måns is listed on the Centrala Soldatregistret with both of these names): http://soldat.elektronikhuset.it/dbrecord.sv.aspx?id=28893

1716 GMR
Generalmönsterrullor--Kronobergs-regemente-G-329a-1716-Image-273
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v46666?image=273

I can understand the easier things, such as:
Rote: Tommaryd
Name:  Corp Måns Andersson (B)eckman
Soldier Nr: 94
Age: 30
Years in Service: 7
Province: Smaland

It looks like there are two additional columns: one describing the equipment he was provided and the other contains general notes. Only the first of these is filled in.

Was he an infantryman?  Does this describe the equipment he received/had? 

Just looking at the two records you can see where the Weckman/Beckman came from.

1716 GMR
Generalmönsterrullor--Kronobergs-regemente-G-330-1717-Image-307
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v46668?image=307

It follows the same format as previous year but, again, I can understand the easier things, such as:
Rote: Tommaryd
Name:  Corp Måns Andersson Weckman
Soldier Nr: 93 (this changed from 94 the previous year)
Age: 31
Years in Service: 8
Province: Smaland

The notes seem again to mention his equipment but I cannot tell if there is anything else.

I have followed Måns Andersson from Torpa parish to Hinneryd and subsequently back to Torpa.  The 1717-1722 Torpa household records noted that he moved to Hinneryd parish. I have followed him in the tax records in those places from 1717 to 1744 when his farm was eventually taken over by his son-in-law.  :)  Great fun!  This one is for sure my soldier!

Now I'm hoping to learn about his military service.  Any help from anyone who can help me to understand more about his life in the military would be really appreciated. 

Thank you so much,

Vicki Cihla






465
General questions / SV: Help with words on 1692 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-07-21, 17:32 »
Thanks to you both!

I know we just discussed crown properties.   :)  but I still have  trouble with the handwriting.  Every note is significant in helping to further my research so I appreciate it very much.

Thank you for your help and patience,

Vicki Cihla

466
General questions / Help with words on 1692 tax record
« skrivet: 2020-07-21, 14:04 »
Attached is a 1692 tax record, with two words circled, that I need help with.   Can anyone tell me what the words are?

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-39-1692-Image-1340-Page-1304
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840163?image=1340&page=1304

I've also noticed on these early tax records that some farms seem to be designated for military - is that correct?

Thank you for any help with this,

Vicki Cihla

467
General questions / SV: Question on tax notations
« skrivet: 2020-07-21, 13:25 »
Thank you!   That is very helpful!   

I really appreciate your continuing help,

Vicki Cihla


468
General questions / Question on tax notations
« skrivet: 2020-07-21, 01:26 »
Two of the tax records I've found contain some notations that I don't understand.  Attached are copies of these two records, for 1727 and 1728.

If anyone can explain what these notes mean (I think they relate to each other), I would be greatly appreciative.

1727
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v835378?image=1620&page=317

1728
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v835379?image=1640&page=319

Thank you very much for your help,

Vicki Cihla

469
General questions / Need help with name on tax record
« skrivet: 2020-07-20, 22:20 »
Can anyone tell me what the soldier's surname is on the attached 1719 tax record?  (This is someone I thought was either a Corporal Måns Weckman or Wäckman, but it doesn't look like that.)

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v835372?image=2480&page=485

Thanks for any help with this,

Vicki Cihla

470
General questions / SV: Help with 1720 birth record
« skrivet: 2020-07-20, 13:21 »
Thank you very much! 

Looks like I found another one of his children after all.  Very interesting.  I cannot believe how much more I'm learning about my family because of the help I've have had in learning to utilize the tax records, military records and estate inventories.

Thanks again for the ongoing help,

Vicki Cihla

471
General questions / Help with 1720 birth record
« skrivet: 2020-07-20, 03:46 »
While researching birth records for the children of Corp. Mans Weckman, I came across the attached 1720 birth record.  What is his role on this birth record - it doesn't seem like it is his child.  Is it the child of a soldier he knows?  Does he have some relationship to this child? 

Torpa-G-C-1-1690-1747-Image-74-Page-143

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks for your time,

Vicki Cihla

472
Thank you so much!

I looked up Måns Weckman on the Centrala Soldatregistret and he is there!  Another soldier I get to research! Very interesting!

Thanks again for your help,

Vicki Cihla



473
Thanks for taking a look!  It is on page 151.

Vicki Cihla

474
Thanks very much!  That is one I haven't tried!   :)

I just found another piece of this that I think is interesting.   It is the same family and there is a note on the right side of the page - can anyone tell me what it says?  The handwriting is difficult to read.

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v19646?image=86

Thanks for any help with this,

Vicki Cihla


475
Attached is a copy of a 1717 household record for a Måns ?  - Can anyone tell me what his last name is?

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v19646?image=85

Thank you for any help with this,

Vicki Cihla


476
General questions / SV: Need help with 1733 marriage record
« skrivet: 2020-07-18, 22:22 »
Thanks for this explanation!  I thought that was the case but have never been quite sure.

I appreciate your help,

Vicki Cihla

477
General questions / SV: Need help with 1733 marriage record
« skrivet: 2020-07-18, 21:57 »
Thank you so much! 

The word they are using for Easter is påsk, correct?  It was hard for me to read it.

I have not seen the place name Wänneböke before so that is very interesting.

One thing I'm still confused on with the marriage records - when you see dr and pigan should I always understand it to mean their positions?: farmhand and maid (as servants) instead of young man and young woman (maiden vs. maid)?

I appreciate your name expertise!

Thanks a lot,

Vicki Cihla

478
General questions / Need help with 1733 marriage record
« skrivet: 2020-07-18, 21:08 »
Attached is copy of 1733 marriage record in Torpa.  Can anyone confirm what I think it says so far and fill in the question marks?

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30192?image=100

On 4th day of ? were married young man Johan Nilsson ?? and Svenborg Månsdotter of Balkeryd.

Thanks very much for any help with this,

Vicki Cihla

479
General questions / SV: Help with abbreviation
« skrivet: 2020-07-17, 15:01 »
Thank you very much for this! 

I thought that might be the case, but really had no idea for certain.

Thank you for all your help,

Vicki Cihla

480
General questions / SV: Help with word on tax record
« skrivet: 2020-07-17, 01:54 »
Thank you for this information ....  this is a whole area of study on its own.  When I see the tax records, I am never quite sure how to tell if they owned the land or leased it.   I guess I just assumed they leased it.   Half of my ancestors did not have an estate inventory -  I am sure they were very poor (and would not have owned land). 

I will try to find more information on it...

Thanks again for your help,

Vicki Cihla



 




481
General questions / SV: Help with word on tax record
« skrivet: 2020-07-16, 22:46 »
Thank you!

That is interesting and I think it fits in with the question I just posted.  So maybe(?) the two families in my most recent post were both leasing from the land - I don't think there was any family connection between them.
 
Both Samuel Hansson and his wife died in 1839 so would the land just be leased to someone else after that or ?

Thanks for this information,

Vicki Cihla

482
General questions / Help with abbreviation
« skrivet: 2020-07-16, 22:19 »
On the attached tax record, there looks like an abbreviation in the notation area - with a bracket around two separate families.  Can anyone tell me what it means?  Are these families farming together?  Looking at the ages of the tenants, they seem to be close in age.  (In the tax records for the following year it appears these two families are still associated in a similar way.)

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v365177?image=2330&page=173

Thanks very much for any help with this,

Vicki Cihla

483
General questions / SV: Need help with name
« skrivet: 2020-07-16, 21:07 »
Great!  Thank you so much.  I went through several years of the tax information and they all looked alike.  :)   I figured it was a stretch, as I usually turn out to wrong.

Thanks so much,

Vicki Cihla

484
General questions / SV: Help with word on tax record
« skrivet: 2020-07-16, 20:09 »
Sorry - button happy. 

The record is at

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v365155?image=2450

Thanks a lot,

Vicki Cihla

485
General questions / Help with word on tax record
« skrivet: 2020-07-16, 20:08 »
Can anyone tell me what the circled word is on the attached tax record? 



Thanks for your help,

Vicki Cihla



486
General questions / SV: Need help with name
« skrivet: 2020-07-16, 19:06 »
I should add, that I'm looking for a Gudmund Carlsson.  Could it possibly be Gumme Karlsson?  (please correct any misuse of the letters in my spelling).

Maybe I'm way off.

Thanks for any help!

Vicki Cihla


487
General questions / Need help with name
« skrivet: 2020-07-16, 18:46 »
Can anyone help me with the name circled on the attached?

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v365145?image=2020

Thanks for any help with this,

Vicki Cihla


488
Thank you very much! 

I really appreciate it,

Vicki Cihla

489
General questions / Requesting help with notes on tax record
« skrivet: 2020-07-15, 22:09 »
Can anyone tell me what the circled words are on the attached tax record?

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v365185?image=4630&page=25

Thanks a lot,

Vicki Cihla

490
General questions / SV: Need help with soldier name
« skrivet: 2020-07-14, 02:10 »
Thanks alot for looking into that!  Yes, I do hope that it shows up at some point.  Tor Nilsson has been very challenging for lots of reasons. 

He was born in Odensjö, married in Annerstad, lived and raised his family in Torpa and, and if he turns out to be the same man as Tor Forsberg, he served in Hinneryd.   :) 

But,  I'll start working on another family!

I really enjoy researching my family and learning as much about them as I can. and I continue to be very grateful to all those who are willing to help me.  I can't thank you all enough for sharing your knowledge and time (and enthusiasm) to help me! 

For the record, I have spent many, many hours working with the LDS transcribing records (birth, death, marriage, military, immigration, citizenship, etc.) to help others locate and learn more about their families.  I know that it takes a lot of time to help, but I also understand how much it means to those people. 

Thanks again for your ongoing help, everyone!

Vicki Cihla


491
General questions / SV: Need help with soldier name
« skrivet: 2020-07-13, 23:57 »
Update: I have looked for the Kronoberg GMR and the Småland GMR listings that are available on AD and Riksarkivet and I don't find any that cover the years I am looking for (1748-1752).  There was only one that I could find, Generalmönsterrullor - Kronobergs regemente 338, which stated it contained 1744-1760, but was actually only 1744, 1759 and 1760.

Lennart Altin had mentioned that the GMR records are available in multiple places - might they have books that are not available on AD or Riksarkivet?

Otherwise, I have gone as far as I can with Mr. Tor Nilsson's military service.  I have reported his name to Centrala Soldatregistret and maybe later more information will become available.

Thanks,

Vicki Cihla


492
General questions / SV: Need help with soldier name
« skrivet: 2020-07-13, 23:37 »
Kristina,

As you suggested, I have reported the soldier "Tor Nilsson" as a soldier who is not yet registered to soldat@soldatreg.se and provided them with all the information I have for him.

Thanks for your help,

Vicki Cihla

493
General questions / SV: Need help with soldier name
« skrivet: 2020-07-13, 22:55 »
As you probably guessed I don't speak Swedish (which is why I'm on the English page), so I'm sorry if you're offended by my lack of knowledge.  It would have been very kind and easy to have just said "the database is incomplete.'  I get it.

I will report what I know.


494
General questions / SV: Need help with soldier name
« skrivet: 2020-07-13, 22:33 »
Thank you for that information - What information do you need to provide when reporting?  Name, years of military service, where he was living?  Anything else?   No sense reporting something without enough helpful information they need.
Thanks,

Vicki Cihla

495
General questions / SV: Need help with soldier name
« skrivet: 2020-07-13, 21:07 »
I may have stated my question poorly.

I know where he was living, according to the tax records. Tor Nilsson is listed in the tax rolls as ryttare in and from 1749 through 1752 in Norrtorpa Mellang, Torpa. He was not listed as ryttare in 1747 so he was enlisted for 5 years from 1749 through 1752.

However, his name is always listed using his patronymic name and I cannot find his name on the soldier register. 

There are no household records available for that time frame.  His son Per was born in 1750.  His son's birth record lists Tor's patronymic name.  I noticed that one of the baptismal witnesses is Johan Bergenfelt who was also listed as ryttare (his name right below Tor Nilson's name) on the 1750 tax record for Norrtorpa Mellang, Torpa.  There are a couple listings for Johan Bergenfelt (not for that exact time frame though) and neither are for Torpa (not that it had to be there).

My question is - are names missing from Centrala Soldatregistret?  There must be a record somewhere for him!   If so, knowing the timeframe of his service, would it be feasible to find his name by just looking through the GMR for those years for SUNNERBO or is there another option?  I know where he was living, but not were he was serving. 

May another possibility is he was in the same regiment as he was later?  Not sure how likely that might be.  I'm afraid I know very little about the military generally, especially at that time.  Was it common for soldier to serve for specific time frames, such as 5 years?  And then to re-enlist after a period of several years? 

I'm open for suggestions on how to research it.  This person I know is Tor Nilsson!  Thanks for any help with this,

Vicki Cihla




496
General questions / SV: Need help with soldier name
« skrivet: 2020-07-13, 17:14 »
I found Tor Nilsson listed in the tax rolls as ryttare in 1748 in Forsa, Torpa and from 1749 through 1752 in Norrtorpa Mellang, Torpa.  So it he was enlisted for those 5 years as ryttare.  I cannot find a record under the name Tor Nilsson in the Soldatregistret and I don't know whether he adopted a different surname.

Does this soldier register contain the names of all soldiers?  If not, is there any way I could determine where he was in the military 1748-1752? 

Thanks for any help with this,

Vicki Cihla

497
General questions / SV: Need help with soldier name
« skrivet: 2020-07-12, 17:39 »
Thank you for sending this.  I have that information but didn't include in case it just created more confusion.  Yes, he was from Hylte in Odensjö parish.   He married a girl from (her father was soldier Jöns Persson Thelin) Grimshult in Annerstad and they had their first child there.  I cannot track him between the time his child was born in May 1744 and 1749 when he shows up in Norrtorpa Mellang., Torpa.    By the time he appears in Norrtorpa Mellang he was already listed as Ryttare.  This is very confusing.  Did he have two different time in the military?  or is it not the same person?  I have been searching the most obvious places in Odensjö and Annerstad but haven't found him yet.   Later today I will go through them more carefully for those "missing" years in hopes of finding him somewhere.

Thank you for your ongoing help!  I really appreciate it,

Vicki Cihla

498
General questions / SV: Need help with soldier name
« skrivet: 2020-07-12, 16:09 »
Thanks for that information!

Here is the correction:

I looked at the tax records for Hinneryd but did not find him.  I reviewed the tax records I had for him and noticed something interesting.  This is a recap.

Beginning with the first tax record in Torpa he is listed as follows:

1749  Norrtorpa Mellang, Torpa  Tor Nilsson  Ryttare   
  https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840180?image=1700&page=327
1750  Norrtorpa Mellang, Torpa  Tor Nilsson  Ryttare
   https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840181c?image=2640&page=515
1751  Norrtorpa Mellang, Torpa  Tor Nilsson  Ryttare
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840182c?image=2850&page=551
1752  Norrtorpa Mellang, Torpa  Tor Nilsson  Ryttare
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840183c?image=2830&page=553
1754  Norrtorpa Mellang, Torpa  Tor Nilsson
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840185?image=3220&page=633
1755  Norrtorpa Mellang, Torpa  Tor Nilsson
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840186?image=3180&page=625
1756  Norrtorpa Mellang, Torpa  Tor Nilsson  Ryttare
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840187?image=3300&page=647
1757  Norrtorpa Mellang, Torpa  Tor Nilsson  Ryttare
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840188?image=3260&page=631
1758  Norrtorpa Mellang, Torpa  Tor Forsberg  Ryttare
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840189a?image=3500&page=685
1759  Norrtorpa Mellang, Torpa  Tor Forsberg  Ryttare
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840190?image=3040&page=591
1760  NorrtorpaMellang, Torpa  Tor Forsberg  Ryttare
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840191a?image=3530&page=681
No more tax records for him after 1760.

So, if he was listed as a Ryttare at least from 1749 to 1752, shouldn't there be a record for that time also?  I believe he was living in Annerstad before that so I'll have to check to see if he was listed even earlier.  But, even so, it appears he was using his patronymic name.  I'll look further to see if there's anything else I can find out about his military time.

Update: I'm still looking for where Tor Nilsson was living prior to Norrtorpa Mellang. His first child, Jöns, was born in Grimshult, Annerstad in 1744, which is where his mother is from.

Thanks again for your help,

Vicki Cihla
Modify message
Report to moderator    24.131.143.203

499
General questions / SV: Need help with soldier name
« skrivet: 2020-07-12, 05:54 »
I looked at the tax records for Hinneryd but did not find him.  I reviewed the tax records I had for him and noticed something interesting.  This is a recap.

Beginning with the first tax record in Torpa he is listed as follows:

1749  Norrtorpa Millange, Torpa  Tor Nilsson  Ryttare   
  https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840180?image=1700&page=327
1750  Norrtorpa Millange, Torpa  Tor Nilsson  Ryttare
   https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840181c?image=2640&page=515
1751  Norrtorpa Millange, Torpa  Tor Nilsson  Ryttare
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840182c?image=2850&page=551
1752  Norrtorpa Millange, Torpa  Tor Nilsson  Ryttare
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840183c?image=2830&page=553
1754  Norrtorpa Millange, Torpa  Tor Nilsson
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840185?image=3220&page=633
1755  Norrtorpa Millange, Torpa  Tor Nilsson
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840186?image=3180&page=625
1756  Norrtorpa Millange, Torpa  Tor Nilsson  Ryttare
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840187?image=3300&page=647
1757  Norrtorpa Millange, Torpa  Tor Nilsson  Ryttare
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840188?image=3260&page=631
1758  Norrtorpa Millange, Torpa  Tor Forsberg  Ryttare
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840189a?image=3500&page=685
1759  Norrtorpa Millange, Torpa  Tor Forsberg  Ryttare
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840190?image=3040&page=591
1760  Norrtorpa Millange, Torpa  Tor Forsberg  Ryttare
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840191a?image=3530&page=681
No more tax records for him after 1760.

So, if he was listed as a Ryttare at least from 1749 to 1752, shouldn't there be a record for that time also?  I believe he was living in Annerstad before that so I'll have to check to see if he was listed even earlier.  But, even so, it appears he was using his patronymic name.  I'll look further to see if there's anything else I can find out about his military time.

Thanks again for your help,

Vicki Cihla

500
General questions / SV: Need help with soldier name
« skrivet: 2020-07-12, 03:32 »
Thank you for this - I'll take a look!  It would be great to find something.

Thanks for your ongoing help,

Vicki Cihla

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