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Meddelanden - Barry Hill
Sidor: [1]
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« skrivet: 2012-07-23, 02:43 »
Just an update note to let everyone here know my progress. I have made contact with relatives in both the Carlsson and Adamsson/Johnsson line. The relative in the Carlsson line lives in Lysekil and says I have many relatives there. They do not speak English or have a PC but are getting help to communicate.
Barry
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« skrivet: 2012-06-10, 16:22 »
Ollie E. thanks so much.
I am on the road visiting family for about 4 or 5 days so I am not sure how much I will be online but rest assured I am following up on all this information to the best of my ability. I am trying to build full family group records on all of the generations and fill in details about their history as there are clues (cause of death, moving, occupation,etc.) Right now I am working on Adamsson/Jonsson and then I will work on Magnusson/Carlsson.
Barry
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« skrivet: 2012-06-08, 04:30 »
Thanks for the responses. Eva, the links were very informative. I feel I now at least have a better understanding. I enjoyed the rich history information on Han's site
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« skrivet: 2012-06-07, 22:29 »
I see these gårdens = farms where many families seemed to live like communities. In the U.S. I am used to the term farm to describe a family operation where one family owns and works the land raising animals and crops. Larger farms have some hired help. It seems to me that what I see as gårdens in Sweden must be a very different kind of operation. I speculated whether it was a large government owed or communal operation where many people lived in communities and worked right on the property. Since many of my ancestors lived on these gårdens i am interested in any information you can give me or articles you could point me toward.
Thanks
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« skrivet: 2012-06-07, 21:59 »
Harriet, There they are in Enåsen Slöta and there also are two of the missing children with their birth and death dates.  Harriet, clearly I have to stop and study the way these records are linked because I overlooked that info: Hi Barry ...in Slöta AI:9 page 163 is given under the heading Flyttat från, år (= moving in from, year): p 107, 67 which means the family moved within Slöta. If you look at Slöta AI:9 page 107 you will be able to go on backwards.
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« skrivet: 2012-06-07, 20:20 »
Harriet, Thank you. Once you mentioned a logical path it seems so obvious that I should have though of looking in birth records and scanning parents names. Sometime I just need a nudge (or a hard shove) in the right direction).
And Olle K. thanks to you. I actually looked for a parish with that name or abbreviation then the more I looked at it I began to see a pattern. I even vaguely remember reading that in Your Swedish Roots but could not find it.
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« skrivet: 2012-06-07, 19:30 »
I am looking for suggestions on the logical way to proceed so I can learn how to best work my way back or forward. This may be too much to expect others to follow I know Maja Lena Carlblom Jonsson had 8 children. She was b:1830 married:1855 The obvious gap is between Karl Levin B: 26 May 1858 in Hångsdala (confirmed in birth records) and Amanda Agusta B:31 July 1866 in Mossagarden,Slöta I see the family in 1861-1870 Slota AI:9 page 163. Four children are at home. The oldest Maria Charlotta b:6 July 1856 is gone. what is the logical course to see a family record of the family before the period of the Slöta AI:9 page 163 record? I checked under Mossagarden in the prior Slöta record. I checked in two family record volumes for Hångsdala 1849-1860 and 1861-1868. In Hångsdala I checked Skattegården, Skäddaregården, and Skatte). I don't expect others to do the search but if you can follow the clues I have, and what I want to find (evidence of other children at home), where would an experienced person begin the search. I am prepared to look at every page in the two parish Household record books if needed but not if there is a smarter way. So far I have printed and saved images of every record and they are rather organized in a 3 ring binder. One last question, After Klas, Selma, Hilda it looks like ibm. Does that mean like a ditto mark meaning a repeat of the parish listed above?  As always, Thanks for the help, and I fully understand if you get to the point that you can't invest any more time with my endless questions. Barry
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« skrivet: 2012-06-06, 20:19 »
Two posts were made while I was in the middle of making my last post but this is what I am doing. It was clear from the Slöta household record that Klas Levin was born in Hångsdala. It was also clear that there were some non-typical spacing of children. Mother Maja Lena was b:1830, Klas b:1858, Amanda Agusta b:1866 To me this means there were likely children between Klas and Amanda and maybe even before Klas. Going back to an earlier household record 1870-1880 in Slöta (A1:10 page 76 line 14) I find Maria Charlotta b:1856 in Hångsdala. I confirmed both Maria & Klas birth in Hångsdala C4: pages 35 & 49. Question 1: If I want to look at the Hångsdala Husförhörsboken for about 1858 or later? Do I have to just scan the hundreds of images in the entire book or am I missing some way of narrowing down the search to a town or farm where they lived? Question 2: The Slota A1:10 page 76 shows Selma and Hilda born in what looks like ibm. I found both of them in the Slota birth book however (CI:9 image 29) All the children have a number in parenthesis. Next to Hilda is (  . My guess this means she is the 8th child to this mother. If so it confirms my guess that 3 are missing.
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« skrivet: 2012-06-06, 18:08 »
Even though the Family History Center 10 minutes away has free access to both AD and Genline data over Ancestry.com, I still signed up for a summer subscription to AD just for convenience. I am determined to understand these records. Your Swedish roots has helped a lot but I still get confused. Your last 3 posts all add pieces to the puzzle. Even if I learn one little thing per day I feel it is progress.
I know I will have many questions coming in the next several days while I actually try to learn to follow these tracks myself. I would love to be able to sit down with one of you for about an hour.
That N.B. 375 is for the Slöta Husförhörsboken 1880-1894 for Klas Levin Adamsson. Does that mean I would expect to see him on page 375 of the next Husförhörsboken 1895 - 19XX in Slöta if there was actually one available? (in this case there is not one in Arkiv Digital)
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« skrivet: 2012-06-05, 22:02 »
As I look at this #29 again for Selma I realize it must be a reference to the page of another book. I would presume it to be a parish moving out book for the the year range that includes 1889 but I have yet to find it. I want to understand everything on this record not only to improve my ability to research but also just to fill in small clues about the family.
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« skrivet: 2012-06-05, 02:32 »
Back at the beginning (about the 6 post from when I first started this search), Mats Ahlgren found Selma Elisabeth AI:11, page 94 line 5 It shows her emigrating to N.Amerika. I just looked this up on AD and it refers to an emigration Attest.#29 I guess this is some official emigration document. If that is true, and there is such a record, is there a place I could find such a record and what would it show? Also I can not come up with a good translation for Fräjd Och Särskilda Anteckningar I can find enough to now it is Specific notes about something. There is writing there for Klas that I cannot read. Thanks Barry 
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« skrivet: 2012-06-03, 04:31 »
Wow! When I think how much I have learned in the 3 weeks since I committed to do this or die, I am amazed, but when I think of how much I don't know I am almost overwhelmed. I am really shocked to see the print versions of letters so difficult to distinguish. I guess those using them developed the ability to quickly distinguish them but the differences are so subtle I don't know how they did it. Probably the other letters made the word recognizable so they did not have to clearly and quickly identify every letter because they knew the word at a glance. Maybe you just develop the brain can learn to identify them quickly at a glance.
I hesitated to even ask my original question but I am glad I did. I really think the information all of you have contributed helps me identify letters and words on records. Just maybe more importantly, it helps remove the frustration as I do search records because it now makes some sense to me. This has been a good lesson that would have fit nicely into an early chapter of Your Swedish Roots. I just looked, and see some of this is at least addressed in Cradled in Sweden chapter 7.
I really wonder if you grasp the impact of the service you render. Thank You.
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« skrivet: 2012-06-02, 16:47 »
Aaaaaaaaah, thank you Heikki. That's just what I needed. If I don't at least understand a little of the reason behind something it drives me a wee bit crazy.
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« skrivet: 2012-06-02, 15:52 »
It isn't necessary for me to understand the answer to this question to read records but it is just puzzling to me. Was there an old rule that when 2 's' are together then for some reason the second S is different than the first, or that it is written differently than a single 's' in the middle of a word? I guess I find it hard to understand why the very same writer makes the very same letter so completely different in one place than he does in another place.
Maybe this is just a case of Barry, that's just how it is, get over it
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« skrivet: 2012-06-02, 13:34 »
Olle, Are you saying the ß represents a double SS 
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« skrivet: 2012-06-02, 13:26 »
Olle, I think part of that was chopped off. I must be overlooking it but I do not see a double ss. Of course my wife says I can't even find the ketchup in the refrigerator
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« skrivet: 2012-06-02, 13:19 »
To Heikki, Here is just one example. On line 1. Jonsson the second s looks nothing like the first s. In fact it looks far closer like the 'f' in Josefina on line 6.  Notice the ss double s above the header in Mossage above it is clearly 2 ss. Now that I recognize that this is sometimes (but not always) done I can try to be aware of it when scrolling down a page looking for names. It is just one small key to feeling more comfortable when looking at records. I appreciate all the comments. Barry
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« skrivet: 2012-06-02, 05:34 »
You are of course absolutely correct. It does have Utdrag at the top. I wondered why it looked like almost like large loose pages rather than the nice bound books. Thanks Carl, that makes it clear. I have not gotten much into Cradled in Sweden yet but I love Your Swedish Roots what a great book.
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« skrivet: 2012-06-02, 03:17 »
I hope someone notices this post. I just looked up Selma Elisabeth Jonnson's birth record (my first real search by myself). First I looked it up on Ancestry.com in the Slöta, 1870 birth record (born 27 Oct 1870 birth #35). The Ancestry film was SC-933. While I could not translate some of it I could tell it was her.
Then I just wanted to see if it was much better in ArkivDigital. In AD I went to what I thought was the exact same record (Slöta C1:9 image 11 birth #35) Strangely while the info is similar, the image is of different books. The columns are laid out differently, the handwriting is different, the column headings are different. Why does it look to me like there are 2 different birth records? I am confused.
Barry
PS: I made contact with one of Selma's brothers g-granddaughters and got a reply .
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« skrivet: 2012-06-02, 02:56 »
Could someone please explain why when I look at what I think is SS that it looks like sf? The letter that I am sure is a second s drops below the line and looks nothing like the first s. It seems I have noticed this pattern in several places with double S's.
Thanks
Thank you.
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« skrivet: 2012-05-31, 23:20 »
Judy,
Just one follow-up. The Genline link above list all LDS Family History Centers(FHC)as having access to Genline. While that was true a couple years ago they no longer have direct access to Genline only to ArkivDigital.
However, now that I said that, the FHC's do have access to Ancestry.com. Maybe that means the have access to the same data since Ancestry.com owns Genlines. I run a small FHC but I am not sure of how Genlines and Ancestry.com may or may not share that data. To my knowledge parish records have never been indexed (unfortunately), so I am not sure how they could be accessed on Ancestry.
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« skrivet: 2012-05-31, 18:47 »
Judy,
Thank you so much for all the useful input and links. Honestly, it just confirms my feelings that since I committed to finally penetrate this brick wall that one of the best parts of the the journey has been the great people I have met along the way. Because of the people here, what once was a brick wall has become more like open flood gates of information.
I found your comment All have ways in which they are better than the others. very helpful from someone that uses all of them. I have already rushed over to visit your great blog
Barry
PS: I do also have Cradled in Sweden but since I have had both books only about a week I have only browsed that one.
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« skrivet: 2012-05-31, 14:47 »
I am hoping someone with a lot of experience with these services can tell me w they what they recommend and why. I have used ArkivDigital (AD) at a branch LDS Family History Center (LDS FHC) and have access there pretty much whenever I want to make a 10-15 minute drive. My main dissatisfaction is that I cannot get a printout near as good as the digital screen image even with a good printer on highest settings. Because of the colored background it also seems to waste ink on a color printer. Are there any tips for better printouts.
I am also not sure if it is worth subscribing to AD since I have free access with a 10 minute drive or if money would be better spent on an additional product like Genline (which I used briefly several years ago). I do understand that one is digital color photos and one is copied micofilm. I do not know if one has different record search ability or different records and if I would gain by having access to Genline at my house and AD at the LDS FHC.
I also know nothing about SVR and any subscriptions they have and where they fit into considering a subscription service.
NOTE: Keep in mind that I do NOT read Swedish other than recognizing a few headings. I am a little familiar with Swedish record systems from the exceptional help I received here and from reading Your Swedish Roots by Clemensson/Andersson
I am not looking for an advertisement only some practical guidance on what to consider.
Thanks for your input.
Barry
Thank You
Since
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« skrivet: 2012-05-23, 14:00 »
OK, I have sent letters to 3 living cousins, 2 on Selma's side of the family and one on Alfred's side of the family. I would hope that out of 3 letters I will hear from someone in the family. I gave my email address so I hope it comes by email to speed it up some.
I typed the letters so it might be easier for them to read than cursive hand-writing. I also hand addressed the envelopes and printed one of the photos above on the letter along with a photo of myself,so it would not look like some junk mail or advertisement that they throw in the trash without reading. I am pretty excited to see what happens but I have also prepared myself that they may not be interested.
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« skrivet: 2012-05-22, 18:24 »
HoooooooooooooooooRRRaaaaaHHHHH! I went through every post systematically picking out every name date and place and linking it into Roots Magic. I made notes for every detail date and saved those along with the dates in Roots magic. I saved lots of other info as well. I still have a list Arkivdata links that I think Olle posted that I have to check out but I have made a lot of headway from everyone's research. I have caught up to the bulk of the information. I have about 20 names of past family members, some great family history facts, and some living relatives all from the help I got from those that use this website. In the process I have met some of the greatest people in the world. All of you deserve a tremendous amount of credit and recognition for what you do. In the days ahead I will have time to get to some general questions and hopefully I can keep you posted on contact with my cousins  Time for bed in Pennsylvania.
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« skrivet: 2012-05-21, 14:02 »
Bo,
Thanks for that info. Obviously I saw it in this case but I read many pages on Swedish Names and no one ever ever addressed females adding sson to their father's first name. I have to say that the entire Scandinavian patronymics naming system is one of the most difficult things to get your head around if you are not used to it. I like everything to fit clear concise little rules. I just try to imagine conversations where people sat around discussing what they wanted their name to be and deciding on what they liked best and everyone picking their own variation Hard to comprehend when you are from the system that says, You don't like your name, toooo bad, you are stuck with it for life.
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« skrivet: 2012-05-21, 11:45 »
I read the link on names and read about names in your Swedish Roots but I still saw no explanation that mentioned a daughter adding sson to her fathers first name. How common was that? What would be the reason? This really has nothing to do with finding someone or confirming identity. I am just curious since it seems to contradict the naming system as explained in what I read. My g-grandmother daughter of Adam Jonsson, went by Selma Adamsson
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« skrivet: 2012-05-20, 23:20 »
PS: Correction. Her 1940's form listed her birth as Yatenberg, Slerta which furthr proves the point I was making.
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« skrivet: 2012-05-20, 23:16 »
Carl & Harriet thanks for the responses. I was just short of 6 yrs old when my G-Grandmother Selma died. My living sister is 6 years older than me so has a better memory of Selma and we are both of the impression that she could answer questions in English but even then would use some Swedish words and was not prone to insert herself into English conversations. I am not sure she ever learned to read English. That was the status as we saw it in the 1950's. I have no clue how she communicated with the person filling out the form in 1891 unless there was an interpreter there. So I have to look at some of that information as suspect. I think that is why a record in the 40's shows her birth as Yatenberg, Slota. I think she spoke and someone without a clue wrote what they thought was close to what she said. In the case of her marriage license, maybe she even furnished her middle name because she misunderstood the question. Also Carl's explanation is one I had not thought of. Her parent's estate record is being ordered.
Carl, Even though the copyright is 2004 Your Swedish Roots does mention ArkivDigital and talks quite a bit about Genline. I have made it to page 60. I want to do a quick read then go back and use it for reference. When Cradled in Sweden comes I will probably just give it a glance over for reference value for now.
Question: Do any of the church records or police emigration records contain actual signatures? I look at U.S. records with names written in cursive writing and I think some may be signatures because they seem to be in different writing than the rest of the document. It might at least be interesting to compare signatures.,
Others would likely know better than me, but I think it is quite a stretch to say 2 Selma Elizabeth's both with the same birth date and both with a father named Adam Jonsson emigrated within weeks of each other to central Pennsylvania which was not even a big center of Swedish immigrants. It is also supported by the fact that no other Selma Elizabeth is found on lists during that time. Unless some unlikely, significant piece of documentation shows up, I think it is clear.
I will be mailing 2 letters to two 3rd cousins tomorrow Wish me luck that they will be interested enough to respond.
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« skrivet: 2012-05-19, 22:50 »
Thanks Olle, I unexpectedly just received one of my books, Your Swedish Roots. I can't put it down but I also don't want to stop transferring the posted information into Roots Magic. Sleep, chores, paying bills, is all becoming such a nuisance
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« skrivet: 2012-05-19, 02:57 »
Again so the issues are clear:
My Selma Elizabeth Johnson
Born: 27 Oct,1870 (source:1940 immigration registration),born abt 1870 (source: marriage License)
Father: Adam Johnson(source marriage license)
Mother: Eliza Johnson(source marriage license)
Arrived in New York 12 April 1889 (source: 1940 Alien Registration form)
Immediately settled in Clearfield, PA (Source: personal knowledge)
Born Yatenburg, Sweden, Slerta (source: 1940 alien registration)
Selma Elisabeth Adamsson
Born: 27 Oct,1870
Father: Adam Johnson
Mother: Maja (Maria)Lena Mattsdotter (Mattiasdotter)
Left Gotenburg 3 May 1889 (would have arrived in NY approx 18 May 1889)
Destined for Beech Creek approx 50 miles from Clearfield (Source: Kontrakt)
Born: Slöta, Skaraborgs, Västergötland
You can see by the info below this looks like her - same:Birth date, first and middle names, Adamsson and Johnson both from her father's name, similar immigration date, Fathers first name the same.
Also destination where Selma came to in Pennsylvania is only one county away from Beech Creek, PA which is listed below.
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« skrivet: 2012-05-19, 02:33 »
Laars, The information you provided weaves a story so much more valuable than just names and dates. Thank You. While some of that information is probably contained in the posts above that I am pouring over and entering in Roots Magic, some of it is brand new. I have not recognized any documents listing cause of death up to this point. Do the references you listed above included the cause of death? I would like to copy them when I can catch up here. A helpful gentleman that reads the forum, emailed me the living relatives of the very line you identified (Klas Levi). I have already drafted a letter but I still hesitate long enough to be certain. In addition to Selma Johnson listing her mother's name as Eliza on the marriage license (a problem I came to just accept), I was confronted again today with a conflict with emigration date. Selma Johnson filled out a form in 1940 in which she listed her arrival in the U.S. as 12 April 1889 on the White Line. Selma Adamsson however is in the records as not emigrating from Sweden until 3 May 1989. I also have a copy of the Utvandrat Kontrakt of Selma Adamsson and it states The journey takes place from Gotenburgth the 3/5 by steamer steerage... This would mean the departure was 21 days after Selma Johnson said she arrived in New York.
I am interested in the members thoughts about this and how they resolve such issues. While I do think these are one and the same person. I feel I have to be able to make a strong case not only for genealogy reasons, but prior to contacting someone with a claim of being a long lost relative. Although I know the final decision is my call, I really need some guidance here to base that decision on and resolve these issues. There is no mention of ship name or White Line on the Kontrakt although I know it was probably the most common carrier line.
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« skrivet: 2012-05-18, 21:30 »
Well, I have been typing and cutting and pasting until an hour of mowing grass seemed like a rest. I am back at it and actually hope I will be caught up before bed time. Both of the reference books I ordered are supposed to arrive by Monday.
Does anyone know how long it typically took to travel from Sweden to a U.S. port in the 1880's /1890's ? Also, was it typical that they stopped in England during the voyage. If so, did the same ship usually continue or did they get on another ship in England?
Barry
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« skrivet: 2012-05-18, 12:45 »
Bibi, she came from Slota, Skaraborgs.
It was definitely jo, jo, jo , because it was always with a sigh and sitting down in a chair. She was a hard worker but remember that she was in her 80's when I came along.
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« skrivet: 2012-05-18, 04:49 »
OK, I decided I am transferring the wealth of data straight to my new Root magic 5 program. It allows for great input of sources, alternate names, and I am also saving images of records right in the file. You will probably think I am as dumb as a rock but as I transfer this data I see questions arising still. Mostly about area names and what division they are (farm, parish, etc) It is a lot of enjoyment building the data into a precise database that includes occupations, emigration dates, and so forth.
Hopefully you will continue to let me push your patience as I ask individuals about aspects of their past posts. I want to understand exactly what I am putting into Roots Magic.
For now, time for bed.
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« skrivet: 2012-05-17, 23:05 »
Olle,
That is the kind of thing that would take me a loooong time to track down. I appreciate it so much. My concern is that I don't want everyone to think I am a slug (lazy,...). I have been the recipient of soo much help here. I have ordered 2 books, installed a new genealogy program, read articles on Swedish names, and tried to tear myself away from the computer long enough mow half of my yard . I just want everyone to know I am not just sitting here waiting to be spoon-fed. I will put all of these links, sources, and training to good use. I have to say I have developed a real emotional link to all of you who have been so kind and generous.
Harriet, I will see if I can post a better full version of that picture but I am not sure it will do justice to seeing the full size one, especially with the forums understandable file size limitation. And by the way, August's left hand clearly has only 3 fingers and a thumb. The thumbs comes out of the hand at the same level as his fingers, not from the side of the hand and they are longer than any I have seen in my 62 years. Now if you really want to embarrass me just tell me that is what everyone's hands in Sweden look like
Christina, you bring up a point that makes me want to estimate the year of this picture. It is hard to guess their age but my guess is that they are much younger in this picture than I would first think. Hard plain living and styles no doubt make them look older by our standards.
A footnote on Maria Lena's photo- I am horrified to say that a perfectly mannered dog had one one bad day in 15 years. She was ignored for 3days while my wife was in the hospital and totally rearranged 2 rooms like a burglar had been there. She only damaged one thing, that photo and the pewter frame it was in. I was nauseated. Never a hint of such behavior before or since. She must have seen some family resemblance to me and payed me back for ignoring her.
Barry
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« skrivet: 2012-05-17, 22:20 »
Olle,
I have always used PAF a free program but I just bought and loaded Roots Magic today. Fortunately it looks like entering multiple names for an individual and indexing and referencing all of those names will be relatively easy. You can even insert customized fields so it it should help organize the data quite a bit.
Barry
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« skrivet: 2012-05-17, 04:39 »
I don't know Harriet, I don't want to take up a lot of energy on this topic but his left hand only has 3 fingers. The thumbs are very disproportional. Could partly be lens or technique, genetics, injury Nothing about the picture looks natural but the heads. The clothes, shoes,(not even shown in this snap shot) all look almost like poor art work and without detail. Maybe it is a process that faded easily. But you can look at the hands a hundred times and walk away just confused as to what you are seeing. No one that sees it has an answer so I don't expect one here from a little snap shot.
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« skrivet: 2012-05-17, 03:31 »
I have not had to deal with this until my good fortune of finding many Swedish ancestors with this forums help.
How do most family historians record or note that a person used both Anton Magnusson and Anton Carlsson at different times in their life. What name goes where on Family group sheets and pedigree charts?
I need more than a little guidance on this because I want my records to make sense to others.
Thank you.
Barry
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« skrivet: 2012-05-16, 20:19 »
Olle your research is fantastic. Each piece of information is a treasure.
I guess you don't need me to tell you there is a ton of information here thanks to the research. I know researchers that dream of having a week like I have had this week. Thank you for your continued interest and effort on my behalf.
I have ordered the two books and am very impatient for them to come. I am now pouring over these posts to pick out details, separating them by family line (Alfred Carlsson Vs Selma Adamsson/Johnson). To see it taking shape on paper is exciting. I like to pencil it in, then I will use PAF (my standard) or maybe get roots magic or such.
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« skrivet: 2012-05-16, 16:21 »
Maria Lena Johnson (Selma Adamsson's / Selma Johnson's mother). She was misidentified as a Carlson and had Lena written on the back of her photo 50 years ago (I think by my mother who remember that she was a Lena and my mother's G-Grandparent)  Another person that deserved to be identified. Thanks to all of you and those that keep this forum going. You have restored her name and identity.
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« skrivet: 2012-05-16, 16:12 »
These are the people you helped me identify. Carl August Magnusson and Stina Brita Mattsdotter Magnusson have hung on my wall as nameless family members for 30 years. This is an old poloroid of a large portrait.  This may not be the appropriate place to discuss this but I have always been puzzled by both of their huge hands and his clearly damaged right hand. The entire photo seems like a blend between a photo and a painting. He may have been injured stone cutting. These are the old parents mentioned in the letter from Anton to Alfred.
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« skrivet: 2012-05-16, 14:45 »
great Olle ! Today I begin to organize, document and understand all that has been provided. When my books come I will learn better how to trace back in Swedish records. I will understand how you knew to search where you did search. Maybe you could tell me what it means when a name has a line drawn through it. Also I hope Arkivdigital has enough documentation to help me go back even more. I want to find and reach out to living family in Sweden that are interested in this search. I already have some probate records through some help of a forum reader that emailed me.
By the way. I talked to my older sister for hours yesterday telling her of the miracle that transpired here over the last 4 days. She is as touched and appreciative as I am.
Barry
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« skrivet: 2012-05-16, 14:08 »
Well, I talked to my older sister last night about the astounding progress I have made thanks to the work of people here. She corrected me that g-grandma alway said shush. That it was my uncles that said hall kaftan to each other. She also reminded me that our g-grandma used to say (if I can spell the sound) Oy Oy Oy when she was tired. I have no clue if that was a word or just her own little sound.
Barry
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« skrivet: 2012-05-16, 11:23 »
Thanks Olle for directing me back to that missed data. Today I will try to find time to start filling out family group sheets so this is organized on paper then in my head. In my opinion the evidence is pretty overwhelming that Selma Adamsson is My Selma Johnson. My only puzzle is that on her marriage licenses (1890) her mother is listed as Eliza. That may be forever a mystery.
I smile to think my G-Gramma Carlson's name was at one time Adamsson and I don't think even any of her own children knew that.
I am ordering both books recommended by Carl today. I want to follow this as far as possible. Although I am a long way from this. I even checked air fare to Sweden just out of curiosity for a possible trip some day.
Important question: Will all these posts remain here including the arkiv threads at the top of this topic?
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« skrivet: 2012-05-15, 23:16 »
PS: to my last post, can anyone explain why a daughter of an Adam would take the last name of Adamsson. Just when I think I am starting to understand this I see that I don't. I would think her choices were Johnson or Adamsdotter.
47
« skrivet: 2012-05-15, 22:35 »
My Selma Elizabeth Johnson
Born: 27 Oct,1870 (source:Funeral announcement),born abt 1870 (source: marriage License)
Father: Adam Johnson(source marriage license)
Mother: Eliza Johnson(source marriage license)
Arrived in U.S. 12 April 1889 (source 1940 Alien Registration form)
Born Yatenburg, Sweden, Slerta (source: 1940 alien registration)
You can see by the info below this looks like her - same:Birth date, first and middle names, Adamsson and Johnson both from her father's name, similar immigration date, Fathers first name the same.
Also destination where Selma came to in Pennsylvania is only one county away from Beech Creek, PA which is listed below.
The only part that still puzzles me is her marriage certificate says her mothers name is Eliza and below it is Maria Lena Carlbom (I do have an old picture from the home that someone (I think my mother wrote Lena on. I thought it might be Albert's mother but now it looks like Selma's Mother
Any idea on the Maria Lena vs. Eliza problem?
______________________________________________________________________
Info by Mats, Judy, magnus and others
Post 642189
Adamsson, Selma Elisabeth
Unmarried woman
b. 10/27/1870 in Slöta, Skaraborgs län (Västergötland)
Emigrated 4/11/1889
from Mossagården, Slöta, Skaraborgs län (Västergötland)
to Amerika
Source: SVAR; Household Examination Roll, vol. Slöta AI:11, p. 194
Emibas migration file ID: Slöta R 1889 008
Emihamn database (port police records of emigration)
Efternamn (last name): ADAMSON
Förnamn (given names): SELMA E
Ålder (age): 18 Kön (gender): K (female)
Född (born): 1870/1871
Församling (parish ): SLÖTA Län (county): R (Skaraborg)
Titel/Anm: (title/remarks)
Utresehamn (moving out port): GÖTEBORG
Utvandrdag (moving out day): 1889 05 03 (May 3)
Destination (destination): BEECH CRECK
Medåkande (This indicates whether she was traveling on the same ticket with someone;): NEJ (no)
Källkod (source code): 38:557:26691 (volume:page:ticket number)
====================================
1880 Swedish Census CD:
Jonsson, Adam 1833 Father
Carlbom, Maria Lena 1830 Mother
(Barn), Klas Levin 1858 Child
(Barn), Amanda Augusta 1866 Child
(Barn), Selma Elisabeth 1870 Child
(Barn), Hilda Josefina 1874 Child
Record 1880-16-127-1027
Jonsson, Adam
Arbetare
b. 1833 in Sandhem (Skaraborgs län, Västergötland)
Man, married, father
Mossagården
Slöta (Skaraborgs län, Västergötland)
Place of birth (in the database): Sandhem Skaraborgs län
Record 1880-16-127-1028
Carlbom, Maria Lena
48
« skrivet: 2012-05-15, 19:31 »
Carl, Thanks for the info. I will order the first one for certain before the day is over. If you do not think Cradled in Sweden would be largely duplicate and it could help me with ArkiveDigital I will get it as well.
Information has come so fast here that it will take a while to pour through it. I know I am brand new but I cannot imagine that this has not been a rare experience even for those who have been here for years. I tell everyone I see. Just imagine me before the internet trying to write letters to Sweden (which I did) and in the early years of Genlines trying to decipher records and guess what Lan much less what parish to look at. It felt hopeless and went in a drawer. A week ago I was going to slowly try to read some Swedish and learn how to s l o w l y trace Swedish ancestors then I stumbled on this site. At first I thought, the usual, another thousand pages of Swedish that I can't understand and then I saw English and fumbled my way through how and where to make my first post. You know the rest of the story. I could hardly leave the forum to eat.
I just got time to check out google translate. I understand its limitations but to me it is awesome. I think two people that knew nothing about each others language could communicate with it.
I still have that burning question from above about everyone's English.
Barry
49
« skrivet: 2012-05-15, 15:59 »
Wow,
If you are interested in my rambling first thoughts: From the photo, film, and my google earth visit, Lysekil has no shortage of stone This film also must be of a resort area or of a more rich section. As you can see from the letter my family was quite poor. This is just 5 years later and they all look very well off. I was captivated by the clear close-up of faces wondering if any face in the crowd ever had a passing connection with my family. Also it may have been a wide-spread style at the time rather than a Swedish thing but the caps that most of the boys and men wore reminds me so much of my great uncles who always wore them well into the 1970s. Another thing that seems a product of the time is attention to dress. Even though Alfred Carlson was a blacksmith for a coal mine company, even every home photo of him was with a suite and tie.
I have a burning question about everyone's ability here to write such perfect English. Is this usual for Sweden or are those that have helped me exceptions to the general population? Also, do you also speak English or have you only learned the written language? It almost makes me want to apologize for not knowing Swedish.
Thanks for the rich material.
50
« skrivet: 2012-05-15, 12:48 »
Yes Bibi, I do recall also shush your mouth .
With g-grandma Carlsson it was always said almost like a tease or playing with you and she would smile or laugh almost like she was telling a joke.
Thanks for the responses.
Barry
51
« skrivet: 2012-05-15, 12:37 »
Harriet, your background information and explanation is so rich with detail it helps to build the understanding around the family rather than having just the names and dates. Thanks again. I have to get a Swedish English dictionary and now start learning things like basic words and record headings. I hope to get comfortable looking at parish records because I am beginning to understand how they work and that they record moves and maybe name changes?so you have some hope of tracking the people back or forward.
It is hard to believe that 5 days ago I was not even sure what general part of Sweden the Carlsons were from and last night I went to lysekil with google earth and looked around.
52
« skrivet: 2012-05-15, 01:25 »
My g-grandmother was sweet tender soul from Sweden. She died when I was only six so my memories are few but I remember her rough hands and big smile and how she would often smile and pres hir fingers to my lips to say what my grandmother said was shut your mouth. It sounded something like holla shafton.
Can anyone tell me exactly what that might have been and if the translation is correct because I try to use it on my grand children ?
Thanks
Barry
53
« skrivet: 2012-05-15, 01:16 »
yes I do Leif.
54
« skrivet: 2012-05-15, 00:59 »
To all of you, I told my wife today I already feel I have made contact with my family just from the warm help and friendship all of you have given. The out pouring of help leaves me overwhelmed. I wish I could give you a big hug. It is no understatement to say this has been an experience I will always treasure and I cannot sing your praises enough. I long more than ever to walk the soil of Sweden. Call on me if there is ever anything I can do to help you or anyone you know. The translation was great, the picture of Slatten is now on our family website. After I follow this well marked trail I will return to the Selma Johnson line. I am still confused if Lysekil,Slatten,Vadet,Höjden are all towns huddled very close together or if they are different divisions
55
« skrivet: 2012-05-14, 21:19 »
Oh my gosh! I am shaking my head going back through marriage license, marriage certificate, Address on envelope, his Declaration of Intent to become a citizen, ALL show only Alfred Carlson. His children are the ones that provided the Wilhelm but keep in mind this was more than 50 years after his death.
56
« skrivet: 2012-05-14, 19:49 »
I do agree that it cannot be coincidence and you have all connected me to my family. I also agree that the letter had to be Dec. 1918 both because of the history of the Spanish Flue and the post by Laars. Upon magnification it could be either a 5 or an 8 with an incomplete stroke.
Laars posted: I have followed Alma and her family in the church records and her eldest son´s name is Erik Arthur Wahlén born 25/12 1892, Lysekil. He becomes a sailor and Oct. 10 1918 he dies of Influenza, probably the Spanish flu. Göteborgs Oscar Fredrik F:7 (1915-1921) Bild 138 / sid 133
The biggest remaining mystery about this household is Alfred Wilhelm Carlsson and how Johan Alfred Carlson figures in. I did not get much done at the Family History Center since we had an internet problems and a couple patrons that I helped with microfilm. I am going back later today so I am there when Verizon repair man comes to work on the internet.
Carl Wolf found the marriage license of Alfred and Selma to go with my marriage certificate I have and that puts Alfred's estimated year of birth at 1866 (probably June) and I consider this way more reliable than the two census reports although the 1910 report closely agrees.
57
« skrivet: 2012-05-14, 15:26 »
Olle K,
Yes, that is one of the census I have a print of. They were my Great Uncles and Aunts I knew every one of the personally. Anna the youngest was my Grandmother I used to spend most of my summers living with her and my grandfather. Selma, Oscar and Charlie lived 30 meters away.
Enjoy your trip Olle while the detective work continues. I go to the Family history center today one of the things I can access from there is color copies of Swedish records (I forget the website name) it is something like archive... I will also look for a possible obituary for Alfred Carlson for more birth date info.
Barry
58
« skrivet: 2012-05-14, 12:55 »
Ollie, there is one envelope that goes with this single page letter. both sides of the page are written on. If you have a program such as a photo view that can zoom in and enlarge the image you can see a circle or postmark partly on the stamp and on the envelope but I cannot read a date or any other part of the mark. It is just too faint or faded.
Maybe the content of the letter will help date it (war etc) if you think the date at top is not part of the letter. I found the letter in the attic of Selma's house where her son still lived alone as a 90 year old. The date was on the letter when I found it. Soon after I sealed it in plastic.
59
« skrivet: 2012-05-14, 11:37 »
These images are two sides of the same letter and two sides of the same envelope, so there is only one letter.
As a point of interest, I thought the letter was sent in late December 1918 and Albert froze to death February 1st 1919 so he may never have answered the letter before he was dead. It seems he may have been drunk walking home through a field late at night and sit down under a tree never to get up again. That was my Grandmother's side of the story. I am sure autopsies were never done back then. Her brother's side was a little different but he was prone to defend drinking
60
« skrivet: 2012-05-14, 00:51 »
Flip side of letter and envelope Could the C. A. Magnusson stand for Carl August Magnusson? And can anyone read this. I was told it may be mixed Scandinavian language rather than true Swedish writing but I did get a translation from the lady that told me that. 
61
« skrivet: 2012-05-14, 00:46 »
My attempt to post half of the Anton Magnusson/C.A.Magnusson letter to Alfred Wilhelm Carlson 
62
« skrivet: 2012-05-13, 23:44 »
Ok, The photo of the area touched me to see the soil where the walked and lived (assuming it is them
This is where I am in research. It is not pretty!
I cannot find my source for Alfred's birth date of Jun 1862. No U.S. document I have found has his birth date on it. To make matters worse, the June 1900 census gives his age as 31 with that crossed out and the age 30 written in. That would mean he was born in 1869 one year before his wife. Worse yet, the May 1910 census has his age as 45 (birth month is not part of that census) that would mean he was born in 1865 and that has him as 3 years older than his wife. His wife's age of 42 on the 1910 census is clearly wrong since I have her birth date written on forms by her hand or the hand of a family member while she was alive. That leaves me with a range from 1862 - 1869 which is just one more proof of the inaccuracy of the U.S. census reports.
One other foot note, I have a large was portrait of Selma' Johnson's parents and a small damaged photo of Alfred Carlson's mother as i have been told by my mother and m great uncle (Son of Alfred & Selma).
Now I will attempt a scan of the letter but the original is not readily available so I am not sure how good a scan of a copy will be. Its worth a try.
63
« skrivet: 2012-05-13, 13:33 »
Harriet, I have no shortage of research to do so I appreciate the help. Especially with the language barrier and not understanding Swedish name and record systems very well. However:
Notice to all: I started my Great Grandparents lines first (35 years ago)since my Great Grandmother was the only Great Grandparent I ever actually knew and I hit a brick wall at arrival in New York. Back then my documentation was not what it should have been and I am now scrambling to find the source for Alfred's birth date. Since he died almost 40 years before Selma my mother never even knew him. The date or even age is not on any of his papers including marriage certificate, citizenship papers etc. I do have a marriage license coming maybe it will have one. Something is not right here with this Johan Alfred so I am confused because all the rest seems to fit. Please do not invest too much time until I try to get his birth date documented. I am digging through large files and hope to have something very soon.
64
« skrivet: 2012-05-13, 04:34 »
Olle Kandell asked So Barry: How is the arrival date you have mentioned verified? (meaning for Alfred Carlson)
Olle, in 1890 Alfred Carlson signed a Declaration of Intent (to become a U.S. citizen I Alfred Carlson a citizen of Sweden having arrived at the port of New York state of NY on or about the 17th day of June A.D. 1885. The 5 looks somewhat like a 3.
Either Alfred filled in his name, Sweden , name of port, and date of arrival. If his signature was any indication, he was quite literate as the signature is impressive so I figue he filled out the form.
65
« skrivet: 2012-05-13, 00:09 »
What can I say, you people are utterly astonishing. I am seriously overwhelmed with the way all of you have rallied to help a total stranger. Tomorrow is mothers day in the U.S. If I do not leave to get my dear wife a gift I may be visiting my ancestors in person. I will be back in a hour or so and begin to absorb this avalanche of information. I am so glad I set out 2 days ago and decided once and for all I would make a final effort to find these people. Never did I guess it would go like this. If you are any example of Sweden it makes me want to come and visit my roots.
Bless you all.
66
« skrivet: 2012-05-12, 20:42 »
Olle Elm, Olle Kandell, Carl Wolf
It is weird. There are some inconsistencies like the DOB of Alfred but it seems way too many coincidences for it not to be the right family. I must go back to source Albert's date of birth to be 100% sure it is accurate. He died early in 1919 (froze to death) and I only ever knew my G-Grandmother.
How could August,(age match) Stina (Christine age match) Alfred (emigration date match), Alma, Anton,(occupation match) and all have an address match and not be the family??? Also 1862 seems just a bit early for Albert's DOB because his wife was born 1870. Also his confirmed marriage date is 1891. Twenty nine is a bit old for a first marriage back in the late 1800's
67
« skrivet: 2012-05-12, 19:04 »
OK, Thanks to all that replied. Unfortunately I have two lines going in this post. I guess I mentioned both names in a general question post before I knew, and when I tried to set up a post in the proper place for Johnson, they combined them here which makes it pretty confusing for readers/helpers. I wish I could split all the Selma Johnson posts and put them under the right section or even delete the Johnson posts and start over but I guess we will do with what we have.
Sorry for the confusion and the appearance of double posting which was not my intent.
Barry
68
« skrivet: 2012-05-12, 18:16 »
Olle,
You posted 2 times while I was typing my post so now I see your additional information and know is is clearly them and it is you who have connected us.
Bless you. I have to stop and take it all in.
Barry
69
« skrivet: 2012-05-12, 18:08 »
Olle, I cannot contain my excitement. When I first read your post I was interested but confused then I studied it and this is my take on it. Tell me if it makes sense.
You found Karl August Magnusson who was born the same year as the father in Anton's Magnusson's letter to Albert Carlson and he has the name of August which is Albert's father's name per Albert's marriage license. Stina Mattsdotter was born the same year as the Mother in Anton's letter to Albert and and has a name Stina that is likely a form of the name Christina which is Albert's Mother's name per Albert's marriage license. Albert and Anton went by Carlson/Karlsson the father's first name. In 1918 Anton used Anton Magnusson as a return address (his father's surname). On the one return address on the back of the envelope says C. A. Magnusson (maybe means Carl August )In the letter Anton refers to stone cutting has been down for 4 years and he has little work. The Anton you found is a stone cutter. Finally the address is Hojden No. 4
This is enough circumstantial evidence to hang a man If it is not my family then life is playing a serious trick on me.
I am a retired police officer and prison official but I could shed a tear of joy and appreciation at what you found. Thank You
What I need is simple clear explanation on how to back track and how to see this record. I think you are telling me that I should find records under the Lyse Parrish. I am not sure of the record type (Census etc.) From there I would just work back in time in that parish to see if they have other records that would list siblings until I can follow a trail back that puts Albert Wilhelm in the family as a boy.
If you have any tips you can spell out please let me know. Do not think I know them. If however you have no tips at all, you have already done so much. I had just abandoned this line in the search for 25 years thinking I could never find it. But computers have now brought us together.
Barry
70
« skrivet: 2012-05-12, 16:43 »
I am looking for my roots through My G-Grandmother who died when I was five years old. I recall her Swedish conversation, rough hands and loving hugs.
She was Selma Elizabeth Johnson, born 27 Oct 1870. Her 1940 U.S. alien registration lists her place of birth as Yatenberg Sweden Slerta. It also lists that she arrived in New York, NY 12 April 1889 at age 18 on White Line. She was not married at that time. (She immigrated alone with no family although a girl friend is said to have come with her). She came straight from New Your to Pennsylvania and worked as a domestic servant.
Her Pennsylvania marriage license states her father's name was Adam and her mother's name was Eliza
Her 1955 death announcement says she was born in Stockholm Sweden but I think that is probably an error.
Any help with clues is appreciated. I have ready, quick, access to a small Church of Jesus Christ of LDS Family History Center and can view images of perish records online but I read no Swedish and do not know where to start. I can learn to read record headings however.
Thank You.
71
« skrivet: 2012-05-12, 16:30 »
Hello Leif, Thank you for your reply. I thought that Hödjen was maybe the name of a parish or farm Thank you for the translation. You are correct that Alfred and Selma met in the US. Can you explain where the name Carlson could have come from if his Alfred's father would have been August Magnusson? Also how many parishes would have been in Lysekil. Could I scan records of all the parishes if I knew all the parish names? How do I get the moderator to correct the topic name to 1862?
72
« skrivet: 2012-05-12, 16:13 »
I wrote a large post in USA H-J and when I tried to post all it would show in the preview was
Förhandsvisa: Nytt meddelande
Fel
För många tecken i rubriken. Skriv en rubrik med färre än 50 tecken
Which I am sad to say I cannot read.
73
« skrivet: 2012-05-12, 15:09 »
Hi Harriet,
I appreciate your offer to help. I feel like a baby with a million things to learn even about how this forum works although I am very computer literate.
Above I meant to type My G-G Father: Alfred Wilhelm Carlson was born in June 1862 not 1962. The only thing I have is that one short letter from Anton Magnusson I mention above. I had a lady I met only once who reads Swedish look at it years ago and she had trouble with it (not modern Swedish or such) but said it started Dear Brother and was asking Alfred to send a few dollars for our parents who were 79 and 82 years old 1n Dec 1918. The name Alma is mentioned in the letter and could be a younger sister. It mentions Your parents and siblings but no other names other than Alma and the return address on Anton presumably the writer and brother. Anton may have been a stone cutter. I wish I had more clues but only that letter.
I am so sorry if I am rambling. I will write what I know and the source and what I suspect and the source. I could attach a copy of the very old letter if that is allowed, or email you if that is considered best. I do not want to misuse this forum or your kindness.
Verified: Alfred Wilhelm Carlson born June 1862, Sweden - Arrived in New York, NY 17 June 1883 (or 1885)not married at that time. Pennsylvania marriage license states Alfred's parents names are August and Christine.
Based on December 1918 letter from Anton Magnusson (C.A. Magnusson)Höjden No.4, Lysekil, I have reason to think: Alfred had a brother in Lysekil Sweden in 1918 and that he cared for their parents August (82)and Cristine (79). I also suspect that Alma was a younger sister of Alfred born after 1863.
Thank you
Barry
75
« skrivet: 2012-05-12, 02:27 »
Any tips on where to find instructions on typing the letters with the special marks above them?
76
« skrivet: 2012-05-12, 02:11 »
Aaaaaaaaaha Mats, Possibly, but I can't resolve the Adamsson instead of Johnson.
Also, since I am learning could you be so kind as to explain each of these divisions:
Mossagården, Slöta, Skaraborgs län (Vägsterötland)
I do know that Skaraborgs is a lan but I don't understand the other divisions and (Vägsterötland). I am not sure if they are listed from smallest to largest (perish, town, LAN) or what the system is. And was (Vägsterötland) an old name for Skaraborgs?
Finally, Can you explain what post 642189 means?
Sorry for so many questions.
Thank you.
77
« skrivet: 2012-05-12, 00:12 »
My G-G Father: Alfred Wilhelm Carlson was born in June 1862 in Sweden and emigrated to New York on 17 June 1883 or 1885 (difficult to read). He lists his parents as August and Christine.
In Dec 1919 he received a letter. I think it was from a brother. My best reading of the return address with a magnifying glass is Anton Magnusson Hojden No. 4 Lysekil, Keep in mind I do not read Swedish but I am trying. Hojden has a mark over the o (how do I type that) and what I call an upper case H may be another letter in Swedish. But Lysekil is possibly where my G-Grandfather is from. This is all I know.
Can anyone help with advice, clues, anything. If I do not find this link I fear no one else in my family will. I live in Pennsylvania and am happy to help others if I can.
Thanks so much. I feel a bond just communicating with people from Sweden.
Barry
[color=0000ff](Birthdate in line 1 corrected from 1962 to 1862/Moderator)[/color]
78
« skrivet: 2012-05-11, 23:11 »
Thank you for your reply. I already have most all the information about them in the states (Pennsylvania) I am trying to connect to their origins in Sweden. The return address on the letter to my G-Grandfathers(Alfred Wilhelm Carlson DOB June 1862) said Lysekil, Sweden Is that a known geographical area that still exists? My G-Grandmother Selma Elizabeth Johnson born 27 Oct 1870 listed Yatenberg, Slerta, Sweden as her birth place. Does that still exist. A google search suggests finds no such place and suggests it might be Gotenborg not Yatenberg Also what is Slerta? I can find nothing for that. I do not know if it is a town or a parish or something else. Sorry for being so ignorant at this stage but I must start some place.
79
« skrivet: 2012-05-11, 21:49 »
This may be a very stupid beginner question but, I am a beginner. I have done some English genealogy and I wonder about the possibility of tracing lineage in Sweden when I read that people could take upon them any name the wanted. How then can it be possible to track families down or even individuals if the change their names upon reaching adult age?
Thanks
80
« skrivet: 2012-05-11, 21:03 »
I am trying to search for my G-Grandparents origins in Sweden in the 1860's /1890. I have both of my G-Grandparents names as well as the given names of their parents. I am assuming the surnames changed from my G-Grandparents to my 2nd G-Grandparents
Additionally I have both of my G-Grandparents dates of arrival in New York but have not found them on a passenger list in part due to the common names (Johnson and Carlson)
My G-Grandmother listed her place of birth as Yatenberg, Slerta, Sweden
I know her parents' names
My G-Grandfather received a letter from his brother who was a stone cutter in Lysekil, Sweden in 1919. I also know his parents' names.
Can anyone give me insight on where to start? Does anyone recognize those place-names in Sweden. I have the handicap of not knowing any Swedish other than a few words my Great grandmother taught me as a little child, but I am willing to struggle to learn the basics of old vital record headings etc.
Thank You so much for any help you can give.
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