""""Monsieur"""", who would qualify for this title?

[Eleanor Olin]

My husband has an ancestor from Ryssby, Kronoberg (1683-1766) who has the word, Monsieur, in front of his name. I have no idea why. His parents, I assume, were farm owners and did not have upper class titles. Any reasons for addressing someone as a Monsieur? The title is used in records between 1717 and 1730.

[Carl Szabad (Carl)]

Eleanor! The title can mean that he had a bit higher status than the other farmers in the area. He might have been a landlord for instance. It is a bit strange that the title exists as early as in 1717, the french influence got strong first in the middle of the century.

[Conny Gustavsson]

Hello Eleanor. Intriging question. I've done a search in the KGF database for the title monsieur and found a pattern. There's actually quit many men who has this title in the early 1700s. And almost everyone comes from preast families. Allthough none seems to be occupied as vicors . Maybe this title was used to improve status for the preasts sons. It's true that french influence did peak in the middle of the 1700s. But indeed, there was a strong European influence among the intellectual in Scandinavia ever since dawn of northern civilization. What's the name of your anscestor?  
Best regards / Conny

[Christina Backman]

Eleanor! It would help if we knew your  
ancestor?s  
name. I have seen this title given to young  
men  
who were a cut above the ordinary farmer,  
simple  
tradesman or craftsman but who were not of  
the  
aristocracy.
Regards Christina

[Carl-Fredrik Hanzon]

I have an ancestor who is refered to as  monsieur so early as about 1705. Wheather he was a preasts son or not, is impossible to say, becauce his background is completly unknown. He just turns up (from nowhere, as it seems) in Norra Vi parish, Östergötland, just about 1705. His name is Christopher Höijer (167(5)-1739), and I have been asking questions about him even at other places in this forum, like familys: Höijer. Later on he is refered to as a foreman, a bailiff or a supervisor (befallningsman eller frälsefogde) at a nobleman?s estate.

[Eleanor Olin]

Hi Carl, Conny, Christina and Carl-Fredrik!    The ancestor's name is Jöns Jönsson Hermander from Röatorp/Hermansmåla, Ryssby G. I believe he is the son of Jöns Jöransson (1656-1721) and Karin Jönsdotter (1644-1715) of Hermansmåla. As far as I know, there were no priest ancestors in his family; the Ryssby death records gave very detailed family information in 1715 and 1721.
Hermander does marry two women from the lower levels of higher status. His first wife was Beata Rosendahl, a daughter of a Cornet and the widow of a Rustmästare. His second wife, Lisbet Jonasdotter, was the granddaughter of the Ryssby Kyrkoherde, Zachris Colliander. The women seen to have the status connections, not him, which makes the Monsieur title strange.
Thanks for your comments, Eleanor

[Carl-Fredrik Hanzon]

Hi Eleanor!
 
I seems to me that he must have taken the name Hermander from Hermansmåla. Probably his original name was just Jöns Jönsson. It was very common that men who left the ordinary peasant?s life, and arose socially, shaped a name with elements from his birthsplace or from the family farm.

[Annika Hjelm Hemmingsson]

Hi!
I have an ancestor with family name Monsieur.
He lives between 1693-1773 in Hanebo parish Hälsingland(X) He was an soldier and his father was farmer,(not a upper class). His father use patronymicon as second name also his children. This is also very mysterius... Why a such name on a soldier in a small village? Why did't the children use the name Monsieur as family name? This is not any answer of the question...just much more ? to bend.
 
Regards Annika

[Carl Szabad (Carl)]

Annika! Soldiers could be given practically any name at all. It was not unusual that they received names after noble families or even royal (Bernadotte).
 
The soldier names were often dropped when they retired, but they could also keep it. His children could sometimes take their father?s soldier name as their own family name, but not necessarily.
 
So there are actually no strict rules concerning family names during that time, only different sorts of customs.

[Heikki.Särkkä]

It seems that qualified artisans sometimes added an M for Monsieur in front of their names. Bronsarbetaren David Emanuel Lavikka (no M here)was married in St. Petersburg Finnish parish of St Mary (finska Maria församling) in 1848.
 
When his children were baptized in the same parish in 1851 and 1853 respectively, the father was given as 'Bronzarb. M. David Emanuel Lavikka', where M can only be Monsieur.
 
 
Heikki Särkkä

[Bertil Friberg]

Hello Eleanor,
Monsieur was also used for young students. In our family we have a few such cases from the 18th century and we are not a family of clergymen. They studied at Skara School in Västergötland. One died at the age of 17, his title in the obituary was Monsieur.

[Elisabeth Thorsell]

Heikki, the M. you mentioned above stands for Mäster, a skilled craftsman who was qualified to  become a full member of the guild for his craft.

[Heikki Särkkä]

Thank you, Elisabeth, you are right. I was misled by the fact that the text in 1851 was in fact written in German, not in Swedish, as it was at the beginning of the century. In the Swedish section the abbreviation was invariably m. for mästare, not M. for Meister.
 
 
Heikki Särkkä

[Hugh Johnson]

Church Records from Nörmlösa Parish in Östergötland    Late 1600's - Early 1700's
My ancestor Anders Norling has the abbreviation Mons. in front of his name in all of the entries.  What does this mean?

[Bengt Bengtsson]

Mons. means Monsieur (French).  
See above about it.