Another translation

[Scott Satterfield]

I'm looking at GID 2395.20.80900.  I can't read the last 2 children and what happened to them.  Can anyone help?

[Karin Ekeroth]

Scott,
Kjerstin born 64. She goes to Kumbla (Probably Kumla) and it says oförlovfvad or do I just see the first o which negates the whole word. I do not know the implication of the word. Today it would mean not engaged to be married, but then it could perhaps mean without permission. I?ll leave that to a historican.
 
What happens on the line above that is illegible.
 
mvh,
 
karin

[Bill Gustavson]

GID 125.25.50800 Norra Mockleby Household Exams 1882-1890 p. 262.  Line 4 Emma Sofia Henrikson 1851 1/5 Runsten (Hitflyttad) 31/5 84.  I do not know what hitflyttad means, nor can I read the town it refers to.  Also having trouble deciphering the rest of lines 3 and 4.
Bill

[Gunilla Brolund]

Hi Bill,
 
Translations are:
 
1. Hitflyttad = Moved here. Under that heading it also says from where and date.
2. At the other end of the pages you see Fräjd och särskilda anteckningar, which means something like Reputation and special notations
3. Next to that you find Bortflyttad which means Moved away and under that where to and date.
 
Let's take it line by line:
 
Line 3: d Emma Sofia, born 1 May 1851. d is daughter. Under Bortflyttad we see that she moved to Sandby on 28 August 1882. The 27 we see next to that is the number of the certificate of change of residence, which the clergyman had given her. She is thereby crossed over in the book, leaving the parish.
 
Line 4: Emma Sofia returns, and is now written on a new line. She has moved here (back to the parish) from Segerstad, on 3 May 1884. Since she moved to Sandby two years earlier, we can draw the conclusion that she moved from Sandby to Segerstad during that period, probably in 1883.
Now, under Fräjd och särskilda anteckningar is written Äktensk se 1889 L. o W. bok 6, meaning Marriage see 1889 Book of Banns and Weddings 6. Then it says under the heading of Bortflyttad se nedan 7 which means see 7 below and the date of moving is 20 December 1889. Also on this line her name of crossed over.
 
Line 7: Now Emma Sofia has a new title: Hu which is short for Hustru, Wife. Under Hitflyttad is says se ofvan 4 = see 4 above.
 
The man on line 6 is then her husband, Arb. Wilhelm Gustafsson, Laborer Wilhelm Gustafsson, and on line 8 they have a son. It says s 1sta which means son 1st.
 
Since it doesn't say they have moved away, you will probably find them at the same location in the next Husförhörslängd, AI:11.
 
Best regards,
Gunilla Sandström

[Bill Gustavson]

Thanks Gunilla,
On that same page in the line for Wilhelm Gusafsson under the column Fräjd och särskilda anteckningar there is something written which I cannot make out.  Also, if it says 1st son next to his name, does that mean that there were no other pregnancies?  Perhaps a miscarriage?  I ask because, Wilhem moved in N. Möckleby 23 Nov 1889 and Emma Sofis moved in with him 20 Dec 1889 and they were married 30 Dec 1889.  That's only a month that they supposedly have known each other and she is 13 years older than he.  I'm guessing that they might have been forced to be married because of a pregnancy.  If that were true, would there be any records of a pregnancy or miscarriage or even some sort of medical history?  Or perhaps it could've been a love-at-first-sight relationship and she was already 48 yrs old going on 49.
I'm just trying to dig a little deeper than dates and numbers.
Thanks again
Bill

[Gunilla Brolund]

Hi Bill,
 
As for Wilhelm Gustafsson it says vapenaf. 2 ggr. Vapen means weapon or gun, and 2 ggr means 2 times or twice. What the other word means, written together with the word vapen, I don't know. It is a short form of another word, could mean a lot of things. But I'll make a guess: has served his military duty twice.
 
It doesn't have to mean anything special writing 1st son, many clergymen did that kind of notations. For some reason, I don't know, they both didn't marry until 1889. In the Marriage Book for Norra Möckleby, C:4, page 81, it says that it is the first marriage for both. And they were married on December 20, not December 30.
 
We probably won't know how and why this marriage came about. It could have been love at first sight, or a very last chance to have a family, at least for her. Or perhaps - since Emma Sofia in the Book of Marriage had the title Handelsidkerska = Carrying on trade - she was a good match?
 
I checked Emma Sofia's whereabouts, and she had only been working and living at Sandby and Segerstad, before returning home to Norra Möckleby. And I checked Wilhelm too - he had not left his home parish, Oskar, until 1889. So it seems unlikely that they had met before 1889, since Norra Möckleby and the other places Emma Sofia lived at are quite a distance from Oskar.
 
Emma Sofia was not 48, but barely 40 when Ferdinand was born. That the man in somewhat older or even quite a lot older that the woman was not uncommon in those days.
 
If there were any miscarriages or not, we will never know. Still-born children were registered in the Birth books, but not miscarriages. But I don't see how there could have been time for any miscarriages?
 
Time table:
 
Nov 23, 1889    Wilhelm Gustafsson moves to Norra Möckleby, where Emma Sofia lives.
Dec 20, 1889     Wilhelm and Emma Sofia are married
June 29, 1991   Their first son is born.
 
If you look them up in the CD Sveriges Befolkning 1900 (Population of Sweden 1900) you will see they had more children:
 
Karl Henrik Ferdinand
b. 1891 in Norra Möckleby
 
John Martin
b. 1894 in Norra Möckleby
 
Per Ernst Leonard
b. 1896 in Norra Möckleby
 
Best regards,
Gunilla Sandström

[Bill Gustavson]

Thanks Gunilla,
I ask about the miscarriage because had Wilhelm and Emma met when Wilhelm first moved into the pråstgården, and she became pregnant soon after (forcing a marriage), then the baby would've been born around July, August or even September of 1890.  Karl was born in late June 1891.  Emma would've began her pregnancy in October of 1890.  So from Nov. 1889 to Sept. 1890, there could've been a failed pregnancy or miscarriage.  
I know this is all speculation, and I was wondering if there would be any record of that.
I guess I'm looking to much into it.
Thank you
Bill

[Bill Gustavson]

Gunilla,
You had said that the record state that Emma Sofia in the Book of Marriage had the title Handelsidkerska = Carrying on trade.  What was the trade?  I thought they were farmers.
Thanks  
Bill

[Gunilla Brolund]

Hi Bill,
 
I don't know, actually. I just saw the title in the Book of Marriage. Se picture below. It doesn't say anything in the Husförhörslängd either.
 
Perhaps she made some money by selling things at some market? Remember, that by now, 1889, society was getting more and more modern, and something that reminded of wellfare was slowly spreading. Industries was being built on many places (though perhaps not in Norra Möckleby), railroads were being built, more and more people moved into the cities. I think that the clergyman might have given her, politely, as fine a title he could (instead of for example calling her a farmer's daughter).
 
Why not try to put the question under the headline Norra Möckleby? Someone with special knowledge of the region might know.
 
Best regards,
Gunilla Sandström
 

[Gunilla Brolund]

Hi again,
 
I didn't think they married because she was pregnant, because there wasn't time for that. As far as we know now, at least.
 
If they met on November 23 for the first time, and married December 20, there was no way they could have known that by then, even if she WAS pregnant. It is only possible if they had met earlier that year.
 
Best regards,
Gunilla

[Bill Gustavson]

Gunilla,
Thanks.  I guess you're right.  I was just curious about their relationship and thought that perhaps that might be a clue to who they were.  They stayed married until she passed away in 1917.  Wilhem then married another, Elin Ottilia Petersson.  She was 13 yrs younger than him.  Like I said.  Just curious as to whp they were.
Thanks again
Bill

[Gunilla Brolund]

Hi Bill,
Yes, that is always the problem. You know when and where they were born, married, had children and died. But who were they really? The church-books rarely tells that.
 
Have you got any contacts with their grandchildren or their children? If there is anyone who can tell what kind of persons they were, it's them. Perhaps you are one of them, but there must be others? They have several children. It might not be easy to track them down, but it isn't impossible, not at all.
 
Then of course there are other sources than the church books. There are school reports (as from 1842, I think it was, all children in Sweden was supposed to attend school), military records, different kind of associations and clubs which was wide-spread in those days (temperance, nonconformist churches, trade unions, political parties etc). According to Per Clemensson, who has written very good books on Swedish genealogy, most Swedes in those days were organized in one or serveral associations. I know very little of what was going on in that part of the country, but perhaps you can ask for information under the headline of Norra Möckleby here at Anbytarforum?
 
Did they die in Sweden? If so, perhaps there was an obituary notice published in the local newspaper? Did they die in the hospital? Then there should be papers about that.
 
But, as I said before, the best source to know more about them as persons probably is one of their descendants.
 
Good luck!
 
Best regards,
Gunilla

[Bill Gustavson]

Gunilla,
Thank you very much for your time and patience.  I will try Norra Möckleby heading with those more specific questions. Unfortunately, Wilhelm had 3 children, Karl, John and Pehr Ernst.  John died at 16 yrs old, and I am still looking into Pehr's children, if any.  Karl is my great grandfather and there's only one child of his that is still living.  She would be my only link to who they were, but I don't think Karl talked to much about his family when he arrived here in the US. Pehr stayed in Sweden.  After Emma Sofia died, Wilhelm remarried and had two more children, John Gustaf Martin Erling and Verner Nils Sixten.  Neither of them married.  So, while it is still possible that they had children, it is, however, unlikely.
As I said before, I will try my questions on a different heading and hope for more results.  Thanks again, your information has been a great help in my reasearch.
Sincerely
Bill

[Bill Gustavson]

Hey again,
I'm curious about a translation that I can't read.  Genline GID 1096.8 p.508 Death record for Anna Catherina Jonasdotter 28 June 1836, I believe the middle column tells who she was and when she was born and from where.  The next column I do not know what it is saying.  Is it where she died, or how she died?  the next two I believe are her age and marital status.  Can anyone help?
Bill

[Stefan Dake]

Good morning Bill!
 
Yes, you are quite right about the contents of the columns. The middle one says: Ung piga fr(ån) Sammekulla. Föddes därstädes d(en) 10 Febr. 1820. Begrofs d(en) 10 Juli. Young maid fr(om) Sammekulla. Born there 10 Febr. 1820. Buried 10 July. Next column (cause of death): Förkylning = Cold. The next one is a double column, age and sex, where the left part is for men and the right part for women. The last column is her civil status: Ogift = Unmarried.
 
Stefan

[Bill Gustavson]

Stefan,
Thanks again. I wasn't sure about that one coulmn, not to mention that the handwriting for me is tough to read.
Thanks
Bill

[Cathy Hokanson]

Hello,
I am having a little trouble reading GID 1269.5.14300 Malmöhus,Högseröd, 16/0. It looks like Håkan Nilsson had a son named Nils that died.  Would Nils have been a baby or small child at the time of death? Would it be possible to translate this to me?

[Gertie Ekdahl]

Håkan Nilsson and his wife Ellna from Wästraby had a son called Nils. Born May 17, baptised May 24. Nothing about any death.
 
Tack Arne.
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av gea 2009-09-23 18:27)

[Cathy Hokanson]

Gertie,
Thanks for your reply.  I guess I have a lot to learn about the Swedish language.  So far I have only learned about 6 words but I am trying. (at age 63, it is not easy to learn another language). This is the Nils birth record that I have been looking for.  I appreciate your time and help.

[Arne Nilsson]

The profession of Håkan Nilsson is not Lieutenant. It is Frälse Länsmannen!

[Cathy Hokanson]

Hi Arne,
I hope all is well with you today. This is the translation I found for Frälse Länsmannen but I still don't understand what the profession is?    
(Frälsegården Bailiff)

[Gunnar Håkansson]

Hi Cathy,
Frälse Länsmannen is not easy to translate. It is not even easy to understand to-day, as it is old Swedish, and also a short, I think. Frälse means just that the farm (or rather spot of soil) where Håkan lived once was owned by a nobleman, and that means a lot when it comes to which taxes and so on Håkan had to pay. Länsman is a kind of police sergeant in the countryside and means that Håkan had to try to hold the inhabitants in his neighbourhood to the law (and also got some money and a uniform). Usually that was not a whole-time profession.

[Cathy Hokanson]

Hello Gunner - Nice name (I have a grandson named Gunner. He is 4 years old) and Håkansson is at least a very familiar name to me. It is my husband's ancestry. Thank you for responding to my message.  Your translation is very helpful.  I was pretty sure the Bailiff/Länsman was a type of policeman or constable. But the rest of it, I just couldn't get it. I am really beginning to enjoy Swedish genealogy. The people, the surnames (that seem to change alot), the occupations and the history of the county itself.  I would like to praise all of the researcher that are so helpful and friendly.  It doesn't seem to matter how dumb the question is, the response is all kind and very thorough.  Thank you so much for the information.
Best regards,
Cathy