Olof Johansson Djupman military records, parents

[Bridget Canniff]

Hej!
 
I am looking for military records, birth record, and information on the parents of Olof Johansson Djupman, my great-great-great grandfather, born in Bro in 1817. He was a military drummer (trumslagaren) who lived at Djupviken, Kila, Värmlands län, Soldatstommen 91 (1835) and then 113 (1836-1878). In the Husförhörslängder, his parents's names were given as Johannes Karlsson and Martha Olofsdotter, and his birthdate as 17 Aug 1817. He married Lisa Andersdotter (born 1812 in Grava, daughter of Anders and Maja Karlsson of Grava) on 1 Nov 1840 in Bro. Brosåter). He moved to Djupviken, Kila from Bro; from 1832-1835 he was living in Sjöbråten, Mässvik, though not with his family (also listed: Carl Johansson, born in Bro 1812 - maybe his brother?), and without a birthdate - just the birth year of 1817. The Husförhörslängder listing him in Djupviken in 1835 says he moved from Brosåter. From 1830-1832 he lived in Wändom, Mässvik. The page reference in the 1830-1834 Husförhörslängder for where he moved from in 1830 leads to a page where he is not listed (Byn, Bynsburg, Nasterudstorp/Tyketorp [or Fyktorp?]) and I can't find a clear trace of him prior to that.  
 
I did find an (Bengt?) Olof born on 19 (or 17?) Mar 1817 to Maria Olsdotter in Nasterud; the father is listed as Magnus Persson, and though I don't read Swedish, the record seems to indicate they weren't married (it says, as far as I can tell: fadr angass vara Magnus Persson fr Backa). And in the 1815-1819 records for Raika, there is a Maria Olsdotter (born 1786, but I can't read the place name) living in Backa, Bro, listed on the same page as Pär Larsson and his family, including son Magnus, born 1796, who has 2 children, born 1816 and 1819; no wife is listed for Magnus.  
 
Questions I am trying to answer:
1) Are there military records for Olof Djupman, and how can I find them?
2) Where and when was Olaf Djupman really born, and who were his parents?
3) Is Olof Djupman, son of Martha Olofsdotter and Johannes Karlsson, the same person as (Bengt) Olof, son of Maria Olsdotter and Magnus Persson? Did Olof maybe not know who his father was, or use the patronymic Johansson later in life for another reason?
4) Was it unusual for a boy to be a military drummer at such a young age (13 in 1830), and could this be explained by the fact that his parents may not have been married?
 
Any help or advice is greatly appreciated.

[Ingela Martenius]

The  Soldier Register has Olof (Johansson) Djupman, born 17 Aug 1817 with a wife Lisa Andersdotter born 1812.
Olof joined the Värmland Regiment as no. 909 (a regiment consisted of eight companies with 150 men in each, a total of 1200 men; this means Olof was no. 9 in the seventh company), in 1835. His company (the 7th) was called Gillberg. Olof was stationed in Kila parish, in the military district (rote) of Djupviken (from which location Olof's soldier surname was of course derived).
 
The archive responsible for the Soldier Register for Värmland is Värmlandsarkiv. They may have more on Olof, but they may also charge a fee. You can contact them at varmlandsarkiv@regionvarmland.se , quoting File No VÄ-00-0909-1835.
 
Valuable clues may also be had from the War Archive's General Muster Rolls (generalmönsterrulla). General musters weren't held every year though.
General muster rolls for Värmland Regiment, from 1819 thru 1884, can be viewed on-line at  http://www.arkivdigital.net/, a fee-based site.
 
Drummer boys were always very young. I've e.g. found an 11 year-old who joined the Norra skånska infanteriregementet as a drummer boy in 1825. The only reason for joining at an early age was that your parents couldn't support you, regardless of which side of the blanket you were born on.
 
The only reason why someone changed patronymics was that they did in fact acquire a new father, i.e. the mother married another man than the father. The new husband became the step-father and if the children were (well) under 15 they'd ususally (though not always) start using the step-father's name.
 
If you can find Olof in a Husförhörslängd with his parents, then they are his parents. A Husförhörslängd will usually state quite clearly if someone was a foster child or a step-child. The best way to determine if the vicar was careful about these things is to leaf through the pages and take note of how he's entered information about other families.
The mere fact that you can't find Olof's birth record doesn't mean that what is stated in the Husförhörslängd is wrong. There can be several explanations as to why the record is (or appears to be) missing. One is quite simply that the vicar forgot or missed to enter Olof's birth; this happened not at all infrequently. Another explanation might be that the expectant mother e.g. wished to avail herself of the services of a particularly skillful midwife in a neighbouring parish - when her time was near she staged a visit to an aunt/old friend and just happened to give birth in this other parish. The parish where the mother actually gave birth and the parish where she resided both thought that the other parish had registered the birth and so the baby was registered in neither (I've seen this, but the other way round: a wedding was registered in two parishes because of a very confusing situation the bride had created).
 
If all sources consistently agree - through the years - on date, year, parish, then Olof most probably was born at that time, in that parish and to those parents.
 
Ingela

[Jeff Benson]

According to Statistiskt sammandrag af Svenska indelningsverket by Claes Grill, the rote at Djupvik, Kila was part of Gillberg company (the 8th company, not 7th) in the Värmland infantry regiment. Djupvik was number 113 within Gillberg company. Djupman was the soldier name traditionally associated with Djupvik. Olof's soldier number within the regiment should have been, if I have calculated correctly, number 904 (out of 908 men in the regiment). By the way, rote number 91 within the same company was Flatby, Kila.
 
The reason for the discrepencies with Ingela's information is because the Värmland regiment was something of an oddball. Originally, Värmland regiment had been part of an oversize regiment called the Närke and Värmland regiment. The N-V regiment had 1674 men, as compared to the usual 1200. Around 1812 or so, the N-V regiment was split into two regiments: Värmland regiment and Närke regiment (with only 766 men). The two smaller regiments were each reorganized into eight companies but each company contained fewer men than the typical 150. Värmland regiment companies ranged in size from 107 to 119 men while Närke regiment companies had between 94 and 98 men.
 
According to the entry for Olof Djupman in Central Soldier register, his soldier number was 909 (as Ingela said). I haven't looked at the muster roles so I can't explain why the number is larger than the number of men supposedly in the entire regiment. Maybe I'll take a look at the muster roll since access to Arkiv Digital records is free this weekend.
 
Jeff

[Ingela Martenius]

Ah, my fault for just assuming Värmland regiment was just like all the others. Should have checked of course; I did know it was originally Närke & Värmland but carelessly thought they'd let Värmland grow into regular size. Perhaps they didn't due to the fact that they had an elite enlisted regiment there too - Värmlands fältjägare (chasseurs).
 
Perhaps they just stuck to the old numbering system, instead of having to re-number all the soldier crofts (every soldier croft had a plaque with the soldier number and the names of the rote and company). Or - because a handwritten 4 and 9 can look very much alike - the soldier register made a mistake when they entered the information in the database.
 
Thank you Jeff for making this correct! I shall now never assume that a regiment is regulation size but always look it up!
 
Ingela

[Jeff Benson]

SE/KrA/0023 Värmlands Regemente 214 (1836-1840) image 273 (Arkiv Digital)
Värmland regiment general muster roll of 1836, Gillbergs company.
Soldier number 909, company number 91, Djupviken
Trumslagare [drummer] Olof Johansson Djupman
Transporterad från Näs compagnie Werml. d. 4 Junii 1835.
Antagen sedan[?] sista[?] Mönstring -> Transferred from Näs company (Värml. reg.) 4 June 1835. Accepted [into the regiment] since last muster.
Age: 19 1/2 years
Service years: 3
Height: 5 ft. 7
Unmarried
 
The 1836 muster appears to have company/rote numbers rather mixed up as compared to the accepted ordering denoted by Grill. I have also figured out the reason Djupvik is recorded as number 909. You were right, Ingela. The numbering is a leftover from the days when the regiment was part of Närke & Värmland regiment. The old N-V regiment used a peculiar numbering system which counted rotes located in Värmland separately from rotes located in Närke (Örebro county). While rotes were organized much differently in N-V regiment than in Värmland regiment, it seems the commanders retained the old numbering system even after N-V regiment was split in two. Hence, the so-called soldier number or regiment number in these Värmland regiment musters appears to follow no discernable pattern or order. How bizarre!
 
SE/KrA/0023 Värmlands Regemente 214 (1836-1840) image 622 (Värmland regiment muster of 25 June 1840, Gillberg company).
Soldier number 909, company number 113 Djupviken, drummer Olof Joh. Djupman
Other information similar to 1836 except his age and service years are greater.

[Bridget Canniff]

Thank you, Ingela and Jeff! This is great information, and I was able to find the original files for Olof in Arkiv Digital (I already had a subscription, but the muster rolls were too intimidating without knowing exactly what I was looking for).
 
I have also now found Olof in the 1824-29 Husförhörslängd, living in Wännom (WDndom), but I'm not sure of the relationship (if any) with the others on that page. He is definitely not living with either of his parents. Can either of you, or someone else, help me decipher his info, including any hint about what might be crossed out? See image below - this is on page 104 of the 1824-29 Husförhörslängd for Bro, Värmslands län, if you have access to the records. I can also post this to the Swedish language discussion page to ask for more help.
 
Thanks so much,
Bridget
 

[Jeff Benson]

Glad to help out. My subscriptions to the various services (AD, Genline) are expired so I can't get at the Bro Hfl page you ask about. The image you posted is a too bit small for me to make out the tiniest details. The word or abbreviation in Olof's entry above Gossen (= 'boy') may give his relationship to the others on the page but I can't decipher what it says. Neither can I make out the crossed-out comment but the end of that sentence, after what appears to be a date, is 'i Ny Sn', which means in Ny socken. This almost surely refers to the Värmland parish, Södra Ny. There is actually three parishes in Värmland containing the name 'Ny' -- today called Södra Ny, Norra Ny and Ny -- but until the late 1800s they were all named just 'Ny', causing endless confusion for modern researchers. When local scribes referred to 'Ny' in the records they usually meant the one geographically closest to them. Södra Ny lies on the border of Bro parish to the south. Whatever the crossed-out text says appears refer to something in Södra Ny parish.
 
Jeff

[Ingela Martenius]

Afraid I haven't access from home either, and as Jeff says, the picture is a bit small for deciphering purposes. I shall TRY to remember to take a look from work, but NO promises.
 
Yeah, I did think they kept the old numbering on the crofts themselves - otherwise it would have been quite expensive for the regiment to change all those plaques...so much easier (i.e. cheaper) to change what the labels referred to than the labels themselves...
 
Ingela

[Bridget Canniff]

Thanks again, Jeff, for help on a few more pieces of the puzzle, and to you, Ingela, for whatever time you might have to take a look. To me, it looks like the date in front of i Ny Sn reads 27 1827 and then maybe /Maj, so that may be another clue. I know the image wasnt very clear, so Im attaching close-ups of those difficult to read sections. I am also going to post these to the Swedish language forum, to see if others can help, but I really appreciate your time and help.
 
Bridget
 

 

[Ingela Martenius]

Well, the top one is easy enough.
Fhj/Gossen Olof Johansson
Pauper/Boy Olof Johansson
 
Fhj = Fattighjonet (the pauper)
 
Boy - Girl (flickan) always means someone under 15, i.e. not yet confirmed. Before you were confirmed you could not go into service. As soon as you turned 15 and were confirmed you could take a proper servant's job. This meant that you had to be paid according to law and couldn't be dismissed before your year was up; servants are either dräng or piga. But as long as someone is just gossen or flickan they work for food and lodging, and, if they have a kind mistresss, some second-hand clothing.
Pauper on the other hand means that they are supported by the parish. In this case it's reasonable to suppose that Olof was auctioned off to the lowest (yes) bidder, i.e. the parish paid the lowest amount possible to someone for the maintenance of Olof since he (or rather his parents) were too poor to support him. Boys weren't as popular as girls - girls could be worked harder while eating less, so they were a much better business proposition.
 
Just gosse makes it less likely that he was related to anyone in his master's family, but not impossible (could have been a nephew or something). But a pauper/boy designation more or less rules out any (practical) relationship.
 
The second bit I'm afraid I can't read.
 
Ingela

[Jeff Benson]

Bridget/Ingela:
 
My attempts at deciphering the 2nd image.
 
The first crossed out word seems to be ???ter or ???ten. Don't know the rest except one of the first two letters _might_ be an 'i' (a dot is visible above the line).
 
The 2nd crossed-out word looks to me like ??attig... fattig-something, perhaps?
 
The end of the line now looks like ... fhj i Ny Sn, which suggests Olof was also a pauper for a time in S. Ny parish. Maybe?
 
Jeff

[Elisabeth Thorsell]

The second picture at least starts with njuter fattigmedel, which means he gets support from the parish poor chest.

[Ingela Martenius]

Clever Elisabeth!!
 
Yes, that's it of course. And I think it' safe to assume the words are crossed out because they no longer apply.
 
The only remaining mystery about that note is then why another parish is mentioned. This was usually the big no-no: one parish didn't accept another parish's paupers. But perhaps he came from Södra Ny and that parish paid support for him? Perhaps because the people who took him in were old neighbours or something?
 
Ingela

[Lotta Nordin]

The remaining bit of the note: Vistas i Ny. He's staying somewhere, probably temporarily, in Ny parish and not with the family in Wännom.

[Kristina Gunnarsdotter]

According to Bro birth book (Bro C:3) there is an Olof born 11 November 1816 i Ingrirud, with parents Johannes Carlsson and Märta Olsdotter. They are found in Bro husförhörslängd AI:13, page 86. Olof is not noted here, probably because the family moves to Botilsäter parish in 1817. There is also a daughter Britta Stina b 1808 and son Carl b 1814.
 
There are no flyttlängder for Botilsäter this year, but it might be worth while to go through the husförhörslängd for Botilsäter AI:8, 1815-1820.

[Ivar Gustavsson]

I think the family can be found in
Botilsäter AI:8 (1815-20) page 113
Botilsäter AI:9 (1820-24) page 33
Botilsäter AI:10 (1824-30) page 446
thanks to Kristina.
Johannes dies 1826 and there is a reference to Bro.

[Kristina Gunnarsdotter]

I don't think Johannes died in 1826. In Botilsäter AI:10 it says that Johannes Carlsson Finsberg (soldier name) ran away. He is not in the death book. The other word used here, bortgången, probably means the same, and not as it is used today, synonymous to dead.
 
There is also a note that Carl and Olof have moved to Bro without certificate and that they have fattigvård there. The three younger children Johannes, Maja and Anders njuter fattigvård här = Botilsäter. (Britta Stina moved to Ed parish in 1819.)

[Kristina Gunnarsdotter]

I also found Johannes, born 4 January 1785 in Bjurdalen, Bro. Parents Carl Larsson and Ellicka Olofsdotter.

[Stefan Dake]

Johannes Carlson Finsberg was accepted as a soldier in Värmlands Regiment, Näs Company, Finserud rote July 3rd 1817. His regiment number: 924, rote number: 60.
He was discharged due to an injury in his shoulder July 14th 1826.
 
Sources (ADOnline):
SE/KrA/0023 Värmlands Regemente 211 (1819-1822)  Bild 119
SE/KrA/0023 Värmlands Regemente 211 (1819-1822)  Bild 461
SE/KrA/0023 Värmlands Regemente 212 (1825-1826)  Bild 281
SE/KrA/0023 Värmlands Regemente 212 (1825-1826)  Bild 282 (medical certificate)
 
Stefan

[Bridget Canniff]

Fantastic work, everyone! I am so grateful to your help in reading the crossed out notes and other items on the 1824-29 Bro husförhörslängd, and finding Olof Johansson's birth record and info about his parents. Also, my apologies for reposting some of my questions under the Swedish language section - I had not realized that this was against the rules and would cause confusion. Thanks to Ingela for clarifying that for me, and redirecting people here.
 
It still seems strange to me that Olof's day, month and year of birth would be totally different in the earlier and later records (11 Nov 1816 on his birth records versus 17 Aug 1817 in his records as an adult). Perhaps his original birth date was forgotten or misrecorded later because he was separated from his parents when he was so young? And since he (and his father, it seems) had been born in Bro, could that be why that parish would have accepted him back from Södra Ny as a pauper, even if the family had lived in Södra Ny at some point? Would it be unusual to have a father who was a soldier, and yet have the family in the poorhouse (is this a good translation for fattigvård?) and the children placed with other families as paupers?
 
I will have to do some more investigation on his siblings and parents, but you have given me much more to go on than I could have hoped, and uncovered what I think is a very interesting story. I also now think that the Carl Johansson (born 1812) listed with Olof in the 1832-1835 Sjöbråten, Mässvik husförhörslängd could very well be Olof's older brother (listed in earlier records as being born in 1814). And of course if Olof's family were very poor, that could explain why he himself joined the military as a drummer boy at a young age.
 
Thanks once again to all, and if you have any other advice or information to share, I definitely appreciate it.
 
Bridget

[Bridget Canniff]

There is a note next to Olof's name in the Botilsäter 1815-1820 husförhörslängd (page 113) - can anyone please help me with a complete translation and explanation? It references moving in (inflyttad) from Ekstrand (not sure if I am reading this place name right, or where it is), then mentions Olof's birth in Bro and at the end says på uppgift af Lars Jönsson i Ingerud. The in- and utflyttningsllängder covering 1816 don't seem to be available for either Bro or Botilsäter...
 

[Kristina Gunnarsdotter]

Är icke upptagen i attesten nr 10 från Ekstrand; men är född i Bro den 11/11 1816 - på uppgift af Lars Jönsson i Finserud.
 
Is not mentioned in the attestation (certificate) nr 10 from Ekstrand; but was born in Bro 11/11 1816 - according to Lars Jönsson in Finserud.
 
AG Ekstrand was the name of the vicar in Bro who entered Olof's birth in the records and probably christened him. His name is also printed on the Bro birth book C:3. Maybe the attestation for the family for moving from Bro to Botilsäter was written shortly before Olof was born.

[Antoinette Herron]

Hello Bridget!
 
If you go to  Genline: Närke,Värmland,Värmland, Bro
                       C:3, Födde (Born) 1784-1823, 0/311 Bild (Picture) 21 of 55
                       GID: 471.41.2100 (real page 311)
 
There are 2 Olof, I think your Olof is the one born on the 11 of November 1816. Father: Johanes Pärson (?)
(can't read properly), Mother: Märta Olsdotter from the farmstead called INSERYD, or it could be Finseryd.
 
Anyway, from all of the notes from the cencusbooks you presented, you have the parish; Bro, Olofs surname Johansson (should probably be Johannesson) and it tells us that Olofs fathers first name was Johan (Johannes).
Then you have a Lars Jönsson (probably living at)in Inseryd or Finseryd telling the Priest about Olofs birth of date, 11/11 1816.
 
I recommend that you look up the cencus for Bro and the farmstead Inseryd or Finseryd (if possible, some times the names of the farms is there) from 1816 and forward, to find out what happened. Olof must have been orphaned for some reason, his parents are married.
 
Good luck,
 
Antoinette

[Antoinette Herron]

Hello again Bridget,
 
The farmstead or village where the family Johanes Carlsson (sorry about Pärsson) is living ca 1817 is Ingrieryd, at a farm called Skottland. The family above move to England 1819, that is highly likely another farm in the same parish, (se index (ortsregister, gårds och bynamn) (name for the villages and farmsteads). Your family moves in 1817 to something unreadable, but I suspect that they actually stays in the same parish. They came from Algustad or Algustatorp (a farm/village also in Bro parish),(see the census for 1810-1815) to the farm Skottland.  
 
Genline:  
         Närke och Värmland,Värmland  
         Bro, AI:13, Husförhör (Cencus) 1815-1820,
         86/0, Bild (Picture) 100 of 205.
 
Advice: Check all the farms in Bro parish, cencus 1815-1820 and 1820-1824 unless you have more luck decoding the text.  
 
Antoinette

[Bridget Canniff]

Thanks to all those who have responded to this posting: Ingela, Jeff, Elisabeth, Lotta, Kristina, Ivar and Antoinette.
 
I now have a fairly complete picture of Olof's early life. He was clearly the son of Johannes Carlsson and Märta/Martha Olsdotter, born on 11 Nov 1816 in Ingrirud, Bro parish, where his family had been living since 1816 (before that they lived in Algustad, and before that in Stora Kärn, where Olof's father Johannes' family was from), but they moved to Finserud, Botilsäter parish in late 1816 or early 1817. Johannes Carlsson took the soldier's name Finsberg, but either deserted or died  bortgången/rymd) in 1826 and the two oldest children still living at home (Olof and his brother Carl, born 1814) moved without a certificate to fattigvård i Bro in 1827. Mother Martha is utfattig and the three youngest children (Johannes b1819, Maja b1822 and Anders b1826) are njuta här fattigvård. Olof shows up in Bro parish, listed as a pauper Fhj/Gossen in Wännom/Wändom (without brother Carl) from 1827-1832. In the 1824-1829 husförhörslängd for Bro AI:15, there's a note about Olof's birthdate, född omkr. år 1817 so it seems he might not have known his birthdate (he was only 10 years old when his father disappeared, and he arrived in Bro all by himself), and then that crossed out note about him being supported by the parish poor chest (although that note references (Södra) Ny parish, it doesn't seem that he actually lived there or had any connection to that parish - perhaps this is just a mistake and that's why it's crossed out). From 1832-1835 he (and, I think, his brother Carl, b1814) is living in Sjöbråten, Mässvik, Bro, and then Olof joins the military as a trumslagaren in 1835 and moves to Kila parish, where he lives and raises his family (and, as an adult, uses the birthday 17 Aug 1817) until his wife dies in 1878, when he moves to Stockholm, where at least some of his children were living. I have found all the husförhörslängder where Olof appears, and I've also been able to go back to find Olof's parents and his paternal grandparents in earlier records.
 
I still have to do some investigation to see if I can find out what happened to Olof's brothers and sisters, and his mother (as well as see if I can go back further on her side of the family, which was from Ed Parish), but thanks again to all who helped me piece this story together! I have also learned many Swedish words in this research, which will come in handy for the future.
 
Many many thanks,
Bridget