GID: 2120.30.54100 Ludgo, Södermanland

[Karen Norwillo]

Could someone tell me where the family of Pehr Jonsson moved to in 1837? It appears to be the same place as the birthplace of wife, Johanna Catherina Andersdotter. Thank you in advance. Karen

[Lennart Wennberg]

Hi Karen.  
To me it looks like Hyltinge. And you are right. Johanna was born there.
Lennart

[Karen Norwillo]

Thank you, Lennart. I found them in the household rolls.
Curious about the spelling of Pehr Jonsson's birth village. His birth record GID: 2120.35.85400 in 1811 has it spelled Ödesbrunn. I've also found it as Örbrunn. Are these the same place?

[Lennart Wennberg]

I don?t know. I have searched both historical maps and more present ones and there is a Ödesbrunn west of the church in Ludgo. Örbrunn beats me. I didn?t find it. Hopefully someone with more local knowledge can tell you. My guess is that Ödesbrunn is the place.
Lennart

[Karen Norwillo]

I found both spellings within the same church book 1793-1845. The births up to about 1809 had the Örbrunn spelling. Then I found it Ödesbrunn for some years. The village index has the Örbrunn spelling.In the years of Örbrunn, there are no recorded births for an Ödesbrunn and visa-versa.

[Camilla Eriksson]

The spelling of place names could differ somewhat. Sometimes because the place actually changed its name. In the case of Ödesbrunn/Örbrunn the reason is probably the local pronounciation of the name. There is a tendency in the region to shorten sounds with r or s sounds in them (I live about 25 km from Ludgo and is fluent in sörmländska, which is often considered to be one of the easiest of the Swedish dialects).  
About 20 km from Ödesbrunn is Ödesvreta in S:t Nicolai parish, which sometimes is spelled - and always pronounced - Ösvreta. Actually the pronounciation would be Össvreta, with the v closer to an f-sound...

[Camilla Eriksson]

Karen,
 
I checked any notions of Ödesbrunn in my own research. As I mentioned above, I live quite close to Ludgo, in the nearest city of Nyköping. Most of my ancestors have lived in the surrounding parishes, including Ludgo.  
 
Anyhow, I am related to Per Jonsson. His paternal grandmother is the sister of my maternal grandmother's fm ff m. I have done a lot of research on their ancestors.  
 
One interesting detail is that the sisters' uncle was the parish priest from 1747 to his death in 1774. His second wife was related to the author of the most classical Swedish hymn Den blomstertid nu kommer, a hymn that every Swedish child knows by heart.

[Karen Norwillo]

Camilla,
  Thank you for the information. A daughter of Per Jonsson, Johanna Sophia, became the wife of my maternal great-grandfather's brother, Lars Larsson, in Ishpeming, Michigan. He was her second husband. Her first, Gustaf Johansson Källgren, died in 1893 and she emigrated to Michigan. Her daughter Gustafva and her husband, Johan Lind, had emigrated earlier. I love these extra details. They make our ancestors so much more real to us.
Karen

[Camilla Eriksson]

It is always nice to know more about the people you're researching than just their names, when and where they were born and died and what occupation they had.  
 
Just let me know if you want some information on Per Jonsson's ancestry. It took me several years to gather my current data, and I was helped a lot by the fact that I do almost all my research in a very narrow area and have gone through the tax records, court material etc for the area.  
 
Camilla

[Karen Norwillo]

Camilla,
   At the time of Johanna Sofia's marriage to her first husband, Gustaf Johansson Källgren on 11 Aug 1860 in Gryt, Södermanland, she is listed as Johanna Sofia Amnell.Do you have any information where this name came from? I could not find Källgren or Amnell anywhere in a Household rolls for 1861-1865. I searched the whole roll, every village.

[Camilla Eriksson]

Interestering!
Bear with me a while when I explain why...
 
One part of Johanna Sofias ancestry goes as follows:
f Per Jonsson (1811- )
ff Jonas Eriksson (1780- 1851)
ff m Brita Jonsdotter (1744- 1799)
ff mf Jonas Persson (1700- 1750)
ff mf f Per Larsson (1658 ca- 1716)
ff mf m Kerstin Joensdotter (1659 ca- 1737)
 
Per Larsson and Kerstin Joensdotter had at least four children. Their daughter Kerstin Persdotter (1697- 1739) married Erik Persson (1686-). They had no less than 10 children, and as number four they welcomed a baby boy, Lars, in 1725 23/11. He became a scholar with a masters degree after long studies at the university in Uppsala, and became a priest in 1763 18/12. He is said to have died in 1763, but it is not known exactly when or where. He called himself Lars Amnell, but I have no idea where he got the name from. They lived in Ånsund in Ludgo, and two other boys from the village that studied to priests about 20 years earlier than Lars took the names Sundstrand and Sundmark.

[Karen Norwillo]

Camilla,
  GID:2498.28.78100 shows the marriage of Johanna and Gustaf. Take a look at it. My Swedish is very limited. Maybe you'll see something more that I missed. Can't seem to find when or why Johanna came to Norra Käxle, Gryt.

[Camilla Eriksson]

Drängen Gustaf Johansson Källgren från Hansarp Åsarp af Åsarps sn och Elfsborgs Län och pigan Johanna Sofia Amnell vid Norra Käxle.  
The farmhand Gustaf Johansson Källgren from Hansarp Åsarp in Åsarp parisn, Älvsborg, married in 1860 11/8 the maid Johanna Sofia Amnell from Norra Käxle.
 
He had a note from the parish priest in Åsarp (named Holmblad or Holmstedt; that's a bit messy) that he was free to marry, and she had a written note from her mother and paternal uncle that they agreed to the marriage. Since her father didn't agree, he must already be dead. But I suppose that you already knew that.
 
Johanna Sofia Amnell came to Norra Käxle in 1859 from Tilltorp (GID 2498.24.5800). She can be found there right under another maid, Maria Catharina Amnell, born 1835 19/10 in Hyltinge. Is that her sister?
Johanna Sofia moved to Tilltorp in 1858 from Herr-Rösund (GID 2498.24.103400), and came in 1857 from Hyltinge parish.

[Karen Norwillo]

Yes, Maria Catherina is her sister. I had their household record from Hyltinge where the family lived with Johanna Catherina Andersdotter's parents in Gillingsudden. I had lost them after 1840. Thank you for the additional info. I had seen the moving out to Herr-Rösund, but couldn't make out that name at the time. I will go back and look at the GID's you gave me. Thank you so much. Karen

[Karen Norwillo]

Can you tell me the name of the place on household roll GID;2498.24.11300? It looks like Jernvägs-arbetare. Could it be järnväg? I believe Gustaf was a railroad worker. If so, where was this? Also, Gustafva Sofia was born in Gryt not Hyltinge. GID: 2498.28.74100 1860 1/11.
Icouldn't find them in the next rolls. The next place I know of was the move to Stockholm. I haven't been able to find the household rolls or moving in for the 1890 move to Maria Magdalena and the 1892 to Kungsholm. I checked under Källgren and Johansson.

[Camilla Eriksson]

As you suspected it isn't a place, just a list of railroad workers (Jernvägs-arbe-tare). Lots of Swedish railroads were built around this time.
Exactly where they lived isn't stated, but they are listed right after those who had neither work nor a place to live (Försvarslösa).
 
 
Earlier I found more Amnells in the family tree - Per Jonssons sister and her husband and kids took the name, as well as an uncle.
The uncle that agreed to Johanna Sofias marriage must be her aunt's husband, since her grandparents only had two kids. I need a couple of days to sort out the family connections and register the individuals in my genealogical software, but I'll probably have it ready for you by the weekend
 
Camilla

[Karen Norwillo]

I found an Eric Amnell born 1806 28/3 in Thorchälla, Gryt as I was looking for more info.
Johanna was with her mother in Gillingstugan, Hyltinge from 1849 until 1856 when Johanna Sofia moved to Gryt. Johanna Catherina was already a widow. Haven't found Pehr Jonsson's death yet.

[Karen Norwillo]

I found an Eric Amnell born 1806 28/3 in Thorchälla, Gryt as I was looking for more info.
Johanna was with her mother in Gillingstugan, Hyltinge from 1849 until 1856 when Johanna Sofia moved to Gryt. Johanna Catherina was already a widow. Haven't found Pehr Jonsson's death yet.

[Camilla Eriksson]

I haven't checked that Eric yet.
 
I am always off Wedneysdays and have spent the day gathering more info on Per Jonsson's sister Brita and her family. Well, mostly I've been tracing her husband's ancestry to see if he was distantly related to his wife since they both took the name Amnell. He was from Runtuna, a neighbouring parish to Ludgo, and as far as I've been able to find out, wasn't a relative (although it seems like he is related to be paternal grandmother, but I have to check a number of witnesses from a few dozens baptizings to confirm it. It's not too surprising if we were related, since Runtuna probably is the parish where the highest percentage of my ancestors have lived...).
 
Another interesting piece of information is that Per Jonsson's sister Brita as well as her oldest daughter Maria Augusta both were midwives. She had four more daughters but I haven't followed them yet to see if they too became midwives.
There is a book about midwives in Södermanland, and now I definately MUST read it!

[Karen Norwillo]

I found the family again in 1861-1865 Household rolls in Gryt GID:2498.31.24900 on another Järnvägs-arbetare list Says they moved 1863 to, looks like Uttag arbetare, but I couldn't find them. They have another daughter, Hanna Matilda born 1861 8/12, not in Hyltinge, but Gryt. The 1866-1870 Household Roll has them on another list of railroad workers. Says they moved out to Helgesta 1866 5/3.Place of Hanna's birth corrected. I couldn't find any lists of railroad workers in Helgesta so I have no idea where in that place to look for them. In 1882, when the two daughters emigrated to Michigan, they were in Kopparsberg, Grangärde.

[Camilla Eriksson]

They moved to Grindstugan in Helgesta (GID 65.9.43400), where Gustaf Johansson Källgren is listed as a crofter. The family moved to Hyltinge parish in 1869, but there is a note that they still lived in Helgesta (see GID 65.9.48100), when they are listed as på socknen skrivna.
 
In the following examination roll (GID 65.10.65800) there are more notes on the family. Gustaf Johansson Källgren is said to be employed by Grängesbergets jernv.stat (the railroad from the ironworks in Grängesberg to the port in Oxelösund was built around this time, and later became known as TGOJ - Trafikbolagen Grängesberg- Oxelösunds Järnväg).
Johanna Sofia Amnell was sentenced for shoplifting (1st time) at Norrköpings rådhusrätt in 1872 11/9.
 
In the next examination roll (GID 65.31.9500) the notes on the parents are difficult to read. Gustaf Johansson Källgren is obviously living in Stockholm, while Johanna Sofia Amnell is living in Hyltinge parish.
Both daughters moved in 1878: Gustava Sofia to Grangärde and Hanna Matilda to Hyltinge.
 
Gustaf and Johanna Sofia moved to Stockholm in 1882 - the address Sturegatan 40 (or maybe 90) is noted in the examination roll (GID 65.32.31400).

[Karen Norwillo]

This is getting more confusing and interesting as the days go by. Hanna Matilda is on the Emibas
to emigrate with her sister and family, but she must not have gone. She shows up in Gillingsstugan, Hyltine GID: 184.1.7300 with her grandmother. She is now married to Gustaf Holmberg and has a daughter Hannah Victoria born 1884 12/3 in Ljusnarsberg, Örebro. Strangely, this child shows up in our 1900 census living with my gguncle Lars Larsson and his wife Johanna Sofia. It looks like maybe Johanna married my gguncle before Gustaf died??? Curious.

[Karen Norwillo]

Johanna Sofia Källgren arrived in 1887 to Ishpeming, Michigan. I've not been able to find that she returned to Sweden and then came back to Michigan after Gustaf died. In 1910, our census says she was married twice and has 22 years in present marriage. That would have them married about 1888. LDS Family Search has a marriage for a Lars Larsson and Sophia A Amnell on 18 Nov 1887 in Ishpeming, MI. I have a search out for the actual marriage record to see what it says. Very curious. Karen

[Camilla Eriksson]

Well, Gustaf and Johanna Sofia weren't probably living together after around 1875. It is possible that the priest in Hyltinge noted them both as moving to Stockholm even though it was just Gustaf that left. Unlikely, but possible. The question is then if they got a divorce or if she was a bigamist...
As you say, this is really interesting!
 
By the way, do you want me to check Norrköpings rådhusrätt from 1872 when Johanna Sofia was sentenced for shoplifting? That material isn't filmed, but I live fairly close to Vadstena landsarkiv where it is kept and expect to visit the archive in June when I'm on vacation.

[Karen Norwiilo]

That would be most kind of you. I have ordered the copy of that 1887 marriage to see what sort of information is on it. It seems most likely that the person is Johanna. I have a copy of Lars obituary, but unfortunately it only identifies her as Mrs. Larsson. I really appreciate your kindness. Karen

[Karen Norwillo]

Camilla,
  I posted a request for emigration records for Hanna Matilda Källgren under Emigrants and a dear lady found her, Gustaf and two children emigrating to Ishpeming, MI in 1887. That explains how Hannah V. Holmberg came to the US. There was an infant son, Gustaf W Holmberg, no date of birth and Hanna is listed as Anna Viktoria, but it's them. Now to find out what happened to the parents and son between Edith K's 1891 birth and 1900. I couldn't find them on the 1894 MI State Census. But now I can be fairly sure that this is the correct family I have been researching. Karen