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Författare Ämne: Can anyone read this?  (läst 2159 gånger)

2008-09-18, 02:37
läst 2159 gånger

Mark Hoenig

I have three things I have not been able to make out in various records:
 
1, the cause of death of one of my ancestors:  I can make out i bäckurst which I have read means in the very back , but I cannot make out the 1st word - it looks like Hinrola to me.  Maybe it will make more sense to a native speaker.
 

 
2, another cause of death, this time for a distant relative that died at age 2 :
 

 
 
3, The parish where the originator of my line, Johan Nilsson Ekelund was born.  His son Peter adopted the soldier name of his father.  I can make out Rytter Johan Nilsson f. R____, but I cant make out where he was from.  
 
 
Can anyone decypher these, or make a good guess?
 

2008-09-18, 08:06
Svar #1

Utloggad Christina Helmby

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Mark!
 
1. Nils Henriksson died of  Benröta i bäckenet = Osteomyelitis in the pelvic region
 
2. The child died of Scharlakansfeber och halssvullnad = Scarlatina and (probably) peritonsillitis
 
3. If you could tell where and when Peter was born it wuld be much easyer to find the right place
 
Regards
Christina
Eagle

2008-09-18, 09:00
Svar #2

Mark Hoenig

Wow!  Thanks, Christina!
 
I should have been able to  figure out the Scarlet Fever.
 
Peter Johansson Ekelund was born Dec 25 1769 in Ramkvilla, Jonköping, son of Johan Nilsson Ekelund and Sara Månsdotter, as far as I can tell.

2008-09-18, 09:38
Svar #3

Utloggad Christina Helmby

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Mark!
 
Peter was born in Ryttartorp Skärgöl, Skärbäcks Nedergård in Ramkvilla, see A1:2 p 411
in A1:2 p 696 Sara is a widow,so I think you can fínd ryttare Johan Nilsson Ekelund dead
somewhere 1785 - 1795..
 
Christina
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2008-09-18, 19:57
Svar #4

Mark Hoenig

Thanks, Christina.  I had found the entries in the Husförhörslängder, but I could not make out the Skärgöl, Skärbäcks Nedergård.
Pink Pool does not sound like an intimidating name for a military location, does it?
 
I have tried looking in the Ramkvilla Dödbok up to 1795 previously, but could not find Johan.  
However, what I was really trying to find was the birthplace of Johan.  It seems to be mentioned in the description of Peters birth, above  (the image is too wide and you have to scroll to see it) -- it could be Ramkvila, or it could be Rarb...

2008-09-19, 11:55
Svar #5

Utloggad Christina Helmby

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Mark
 
I don´t think you can translate Skärgöl to Pink pool (
Old names can be very, very old and are not able to translate
 
Peters birth description does not mention Johans birth
 
I´ll try ...
 
Christina
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2008-09-19, 13:22
Svar #6

Utloggad Harriet Hogevik

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Mark
There is another older meaning of the word skär. It comes from cleaning ceremonies, to skära. For example we still call the thursday in easter week skärtorsdag since the times when Sweden was a catholic country. (from E.Schön - folktro i Bohuslän).
So if you want a translation, I suggest something like Cleaning pool
Regards Harriet

2008-09-19, 17:40
Svar #7

Mark Hoenig

Harriet-thanks for the information.  The word is similar to the old English word 'shrove', used in Shrove Thursday.
 
Christina - That is too much to ask.    I thought it described Johan as 'fran' somewhere that I could not make out.  I will try tracking down some of the witnesses at the childrens' baptisms.    I couldn't see the older children in
the birth records, so I assume the family moved from elsewhere.

2008-09-19, 22:45
Svar #8

Utloggad Kristina Gunnarsdotter

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I think you should be very careful when trying to translate or derivate the origin of names of places. Shrove in Shrove Tuesday (not Thursday) has nothing to do with skär. Skärtorsdag is Maundy (or Holy) Thursday, and skär in religios contexts is mostly immaculate.  
 
Skär can also mean skerrie, or score. Guessing is seldom a good idea, but a mountain cleft (filled with water)? But the original meaning could be something totally different.

2008-09-20, 00:12
Svar #9

Mark Hoenig

Thank you Kristina...
 
I thought I had posted earlier acknowledging my error, but the post seems to have been lost.
 
Shrove in English is more related to skriv; I had thought the English word was derived from sins being purified but a quick check showed that that was not the case.   Shrove Tuesday is of course fettisdagen in Swedish.

2008-09-20, 00:35
Svar #10

Utloggad Kristina Gunnarsdotter

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From Wikipedia:
The word shrove is a past tense of the English verb shrive, which means to obtain absolution for one's sins by confessing and doing penance. Shrove Tuesday gets its name from the shriving (confessing) that Anglo-Saxon Christians were expected to do prior to receiving absolution immediately before Lent.

2008-09-20, 02:06
Svar #11

Mark Hoenig

Yes - I thought the English word for absolution derived from the idea of washing away sins or becoming pure (confusing absolution with ablution :-) ), but the word shrive in English comes for the word for scribe instead.  I thought I had read earlier that this was related to the Indulgences that were written out absolving people of their sins - and, coincidentaly, part of what Martin Luther protested. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indulgence).  However, I can't find that source again, so I don't want to make another false statement.  
 The english word shrive is  Middle English, from Old English scrifan to shrive, prescribe, (akin to Old High German scriban to write), from Latin scribere to write.  (Webster)  I hope I won't be making too dangerous a guess that the Swedish skriva has the same roots.

2008-09-20, 11:25
Svar #12

Utloggad Elisabeth Thorsell

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Mark, may I suggest that as your Johan was a soldier he died during the war of 1788-90 with the Russians. If he died abroad he will not be listed in the death records of his home parish.  
 
There might be a probate (bouppteckning) for him and if he lived in Ramkvilla it might be found in the archives of Västra Härad, which are kept in the Regional Archives in Vadstena, Sweden, but has also been microfilmed by the LDS.

2008-09-22, 21:52
Svar #13

Mark Hoenig

Thanks for the probate idea, Elisabeth.  I didn't realize they were available that far back!  I had considered the intriguing idea that Johan was killed in Gustav III's War, but I thought he was a little too old (63) for active duty then, and could not see that Småland's Calvary was involved.
 
There appears to be an entire biography of his wife, Sara Månsdotter, in the dödbok.  I think that Johan was born in Karlstorp, Bäckaby from that entry, but there appears to be a lot more information than I can translate/decipher.  Here's what I have from the entry:
(Ramkvilla kyrkoarkiv, Födelse- och dopböcker, SE/VALA/00299/C/3 (1757-1803)page 501 )
 
 
Died May 18, Buried May 23, Calvaryman’s Widow  Sara Månsdotter from Backstuggan  ____?   __________________  born 11 Oct 1739 of Måns Jonsson and Ingjerd Jonsdotter.  ________________ Around 1756 married to __________  Anders Svensson.______________________________________________________  Johan Ekelund from Knutstorp, Bäckaby (?) _________________________circa 26 (?) _________________ birthed 10 children, 6 sons and 4 daughters_______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________ ____________________________________________________63 years old_____________________________

2008-09-23, 09:03
Svar #14

Mark Hoenig

I think I can make out that Johan Ekelund was of the Major's Company.
 
The Circa '26' must be 96, and the word after it looks like dod so it may also refer to Johan.
 
I have tried to look up Johan in the Födelsbök for Bäckaby but I can't make much of it. The witnesses are a lot easier to identify than the parents -- it seems to me that the mother is often not mentioned.  I guess they only used the liturgical calendar then.  There is an entry for a Johan on what looks like it was on a lördag, but I can't think of any Saturday on the liturgical calendar other than Holy Saturday, Påskafton ... unless it was called something else.  It occurs before the 13th Sunday after Epiphany, and Johan was born in April. But I can't make heads or tails of it.  The word after P: which seems to be the abbrevation for Pater seems to be used elsewhere in the same document in the same place.  It is vaguely comforting to know that someone in the world in the last 300 years had handwriting less legible than mine.
 
.

2008-09-23, 11:21
Svar #15

Utloggad Elisabeth Thorsell

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The day is Andre stoor Bönedagen which means the 2nd Day of Prayer, or as in my dictionary roughly Intercession Day. Every year there were four Böndagar, promulgated by the king, during which it was mandatory to go to church, and the subject of this day of prayer was sent out from the archbishop.  
 
It seems that nowadays there is only one bönsöndag, and it falls on the 5th sunday after Easter.
 
The father of this child is Sven in Svensgård, and you need a Nils, so this is not the right Johan.

2008-09-23, 14:50
Svar #16

Utloggad Stefan Dake

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Hello Mark!
 
Apparently you are using SVAR. If so, you can follow Johan's military career in the General Muster Rolls (Generalmönsterrullor (GMR)). These are available from the swedish version of the site.
I've found the following information:
Enlisted September 17th 1754 at the age of 18, i.e. he was probably born 1736.  He was enlisted as No. 23 of the Major's Company (after 1775 called Premier Major's Company) in Smålands Cavalry Regiment in Hags Rote (File?) in Hjälmseryd parish (I think). December 19th 1768 he was transferred to No 117 of the same Company in Skärbäcks Rote in Ramkvilla parish. In the spring of 1790 he and many others were commanded for duty in Stockholm where he died of sickness July 26th 1790.
His length was 5' 11 (Swedish. Equals 5' 9 imperial)
 
Here are the pages where you can find him:
 
Generalmönsterrullor ? Smålands kavalleriregemente
 
1759-1760: SE/KrA/0023/0/855. 1759: picture 64; 1760: picture 286.
1761: SE/KrA/0023/0/856. Picture 66.
1764: SE/KrA/0023/0/857. Picture 127. (Enlistment September 17th 1754 noted)
1770: SE/KrA/0023/0/858. As No. 23: picture 95; As No. 117: picture 121. (Transferred December 19th 1768).
1775: SE/KrA/0023/0/859. Picture 135.  
1778: SE/KrA/0023/0/860. Picture 139.
1783: SE/KrA/0023/0/861. Picture 166.
1787: SE/KrA/0023/0/862. Picture 135.
1789-1790: SE/KrA/0023/0/863. 1789: picture 71; 1790: picture 336 (May 1790: commandment to Stockholm); picture 236 (July 12th 1790: sick in quarters)      
1791: SE/KrA/0023/0/864. Picture 134. (Dead in Stockholm July 26th 1790.)
 
regards Stefan
Stefan Dake

2008-09-24, 07:09
Svar #17

Mark Hoenig

Elisabeth - thank you for deciphering that for me.  I take it that the for one remaining bönsöndag attendance is  no longer manditory for all Swedes?  
 
Am I right in my observation that the mother/mater is often not noted?  Or am I just failing to read?
 
In light of Stefan's note about Johan's year, there is a Johan son of Nils (I think) on SVAR
 
Bäckaby kyrkoarkiv, Födelse- och dopböcker, SE/VALA/00051/C/2 (1715-1739) picture 33
 
It is marked as 1735, but it seems to transition to 1737 on the next page with only one entry marked 1736.
 
Stefan, thank you!  I am bowled over by all that you have done.  I saw the military records in the Swedish part of SVAR, but was confused on how to access them (I thought you had to had to use the 1. AND 2. drop down selections, and then you can't see the Småland  Cavalry.  I now have lots to investigate.

2008-09-26, 05:01
Svar #18

Mark Hoenig

Stefan, how did you come to the determination that the Hag Rote was in Hjälmseryd?  I can't find it there.  Normally, I would think I just missed it, but you indicated that you were not sure.  Is there a list somewhere that links rotar with parishes?

2008-09-26, 18:29
Svar #19

Mark Hoenig

I have had confirmation that Hag is indeed in Hjälmseryd, with some outside help.  (Thanks, K W!) I have also been able to make out from the dödbok that Sara was born in Skepperstad parrish.

2008-09-26, 21:32
Svar #20

Utloggad Stefan Dake

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Hello Mark!
 
Yes, also I have found Hag in Hjälmseryd, but I don't think they lived there, he just belonged to the Hag rote. According to the military lists he was transferred to Ramkvilla in December 1770 but, as Christina says above, his son Peter was born in Ramkvilla one year earlier. He had two older sons, Nicolaus, born February 11th 1765, and Magnus, born January 5th 1767. I have not found their births, neither in Hjälmseryd, nor in Ramkvilla. So Skepperstad is very interesting. Marriages often took place in the bride's home parish.
 
regards Stefan
Stefan Dake

2008-09-26, 22:59
Svar #21

Mark Hoenig

That's interesting - I naturally I thought all soldiers were supported on their Rote, and worked the land there as well.
I did have the information that Peter (my ancestor) was the first to be born in Ramkvilla.  From what I can read from Sara's bio in the dödbok, she had 10 children, 9 of which I accounted for.  Perhaps one of the first 3 born died before they moved to Ramkvilla, or perhaps the child was with her fist husband.  I am glad that I read the names of Nicolaus and Magnus correctly.   Incidently, the Husförhörslängder seems to indicate Peter went to Fredricksberg as far as I can make out, but this seems rather far.  I subsequently of records of him in Gårdsby, Söraby, and Hemmesjö,where he died.
 
 
I don't know if it is like this in Genline, but in SVAR the record for the Skepperstad in 1749-1752 points to the Hultsjö parrish register.  
[Edit - I now see that three registers were combined in one book]
 
I will post Sara's dödbok entry here in case someone can make out where in Skepparstad she was born - I could only make Skepperstad by looking at the pp and the stad ending and comparing it with the list of parishes; aferward the same Sk combination used in Skärbäcks was apparent.  (note: I have had to shrink the file in order to conform to the 100k limit, I can email anyone a larger copy.)
 
 

 
(Meddelandet ändrat av markragnar den 27 september, 2008)

2008-09-27, 02:24
Svar #22

Mark Hoenig

P.S.  I have found Magnus's Birth..
Skepperstads kyrkoarkiv, Födelse- och dopböcker, SE/VALA/00333/C/2 (1758-1831) Skepperstads kyrkoarkiv, Födelse- och dopböcker, SE/VALA/00333/C/2 (1758-1831) bild 21
 
So I will look for them in the Husförhörslängder.
Thanks for the tip about them not living in the same parish as the rote - I would not have thought of that!
 
Edit: Found in H.
Skepperstads kyrkoarkiv, Husförhörslängder, SE/VALA/00333/A I/2 (1753-1770)bild 17.  Note there was one previous Peter who died in infancy.  Appears Mother may be living in the same place, Fri__?
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av markragnar den 27 september, 2008)

2008-09-27, 04:13
Svar #23

Utloggad Stefan Dake

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Hello Mark!
 
I was just going to send a message about Peter and SE/VALA/00333/A I/2 when I saw that you had found them!
The place is Frisnäs.
 
Stefan
Stefan Dake

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