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[Claes Calemark]

I believe my grandfather brother Knut Petri Karlsson, born Kumla parish in 1893 emigrated to America. The exact time is uncertain but a guess is before WW1 shortly therafter. He disappeared however and I am very curious to find out if he exists in any files or records

[Karen Kelsey]

When searching the U.S. Federal census, it is important to have the date of birth.  There are too many Karlsons/Carlsons listed, and it is helpful to limit the search by age.

[Eva Dahlberg]

Claes, your man is not to be found in neither CD-Emigranten nor EMIBAS - but none of them are  complete (Knut Petri Karlsson is discussed in Swedish , here, here, here and here so information available in Swedish census is known). His year of birth is in those discussions given both as 1883 and 1893!
 
Claes, if you contact Uppsala Landsarkiv they can provide his possible date of emigration.
 
According to one of the answers you have been given, the full date of birth is 10 October 1883
Hälsningar,
Eva

[Eva Dahlberg]

sorry, the birth date stated should be 10 February 1883 (I probrably got lost among the different brothers and postings ). But he is still not found.
 
Hälsningar,
Eva

[Claes Calemark]

it may be his brother  Johan Hugo Karlsson , born 1888-03-15 in Jäder parishm anything on him  ?

[Eva Dahlberg]

There are plenty of Knut Karlsson (Carlsson and other spellings) on CD-Emigranten emigrating after 1900. This cd can't be searched for birth date or birth year, only for age when emigrating - and as we don't have a year for emigrating this gives many options. Only one Knut P (a lot of Knut with other initals and just as many as Knut without intial) but he leaves from Kronobergs län in 1911 and is 19 at the time.
 
My earlier statement that I din't find him was when searching for Petri as given name.
 
And you don't know that this is the brother that emigrated do you?  
 
Hälsningar,
Eva

[Eva Dahlberg]

We obviously posted past each other - only checking EMIBAS (as that's the only one with birth dates) - the answer is no.
 
/Eva

[Eva Dahlberg]

Claes, I also quickly searched another free resoruce (I don't have access to Ancestry's fee based services) which is the Social Security Death Index. It includes people who died in the US (mainly) after 1962 and had Social Security - which not everyone had. It's possible to search for birth dates in the advanced option. I didn't find any obvious matches for any of the two.
 
Hälsningar,
Eva

[Claes Calemark]

I suppose that whichever brother that emigrated, Jon Hugo or Knut Petri could have died before 1962and therefore wouldnt be in that database. I need to found out exactly which of them wnet to America, and then take the search from there.

[Laura Bonde]

From Ancestry’s World War I Draft Registration Cards:
 
Knut Petri Karlson
4908 4th Ave, Brooklyn New York  
Age 35
Birthdate: 20 Feb 1883
Race: White
US Citizen:  box Native Born checked
Present Occupation: Some one with better eyes  
Employer’s name: will have to work on these two.  
 
Nearest Relative: Hanna Karlson, mother  
Address: Sweden  
 
Medium Height, Slender Build
Blonde hair, blue eyes
 
Registered 1 October 1918
Roll 1754306
Draft Board: 40
 


 
Laura

[Lena Thelin]

It might be this one in the census 1890
 
Homeparish:  Torpa annex  
Residence:  Torpunga Säteri  
County:  Västmanland  
Per Olof Carlsson, b. 1856 in Ramnäs, Rättare  
wife
Johanna Sofia Morberg, b. 1854 in Söderbärke
children
Knut Per, b. 1883 in Kumla
Otto Emanuel, b. 1885 in Gamla Uppsala
John Hugo, b. 1888 in Jäder
 
Lena

[Lena Thelin]

This is from Genline
 

[Lena Thelin]

18851028-703
Carlsson, Otto Emanuel
(No address)
Dead 2/18/1960.
Registered in Västerås, Västerås kn (Västmanlands län, Västmanland).
Born 10/28/1885 (no place of birth)
Married man.
--------------
Corresponding parish(es) as of Jan 1, 2005:
Västerås domkyrkoförs, Västerås kn (Västmanlands län, Västmanland)
Viksäng, Västerås kn (Västmanlands län, Västmanland)
Source records:
AL / DOR 52-60
 
and here is the family in the census 1900
 
Homeparish:  Thorshälla stads.  
Residence:  Gården N:o 3  
County:  Södermanland  
Per Olof Karlsson, b. 1856, Pantbanksinnehaf.  
Johanna Sofia Morberg, b. 1854  
Otto Emanuel, b. 1885  
Johan Hugo, b. 1888  
Karl Gunnar, b. 1892  
Knut Petri, b. 1883

[Claes Calemark]

Thank you Laura and Lena, Knut Petri is definetly  my grandfathers brother and now the mystery of which of the brother who emigrated is solved - thank you so much ! I have some old back and white photos of a man with scribbles partly in swedish , partly in english, I have feeling that it may be Knut Petri in America but I am not sure.  
Is it possible to find out when and where he died ? any US family ?

[Claes Calemark]

another question, since he enrolled in the military, there must be more records to be found from his time there, where he served, retirement and more. where can I access this ?

[Laura Bonde]

Claes,
During 1917 and 1918 about 24 million men (98% of the male population in the US under the age of 46)  filled out registration cards but only about 20% of them actually served.  
 
This link is for the National Archives and has information about how to begin searching:  
 
http://www.archives.gov/veterans/research/genealogy.html
 
Laura

[Judy Olson Baouab]

The 1930 U.S. Census tells whether someone served in a war and if so, which war.
 
http://www.ipums.umn.edu/usa/voliii/93items.html
 
Judy

[Claes Calemark]

thanks Judy and Laura. The 1930 census does not seem to provide information on individuals, thats  at least what I understood.  
I am trying to figure out the employers name, place of employment and  occupation to see if it takes me further. I have written to the Scandinavian Museum in Brooklyn to see if they can assist me more.
I have browsed a few cemetaries in Brooklyn with online records but so far no success. If I could find out approx year of death I could probably search further in the archives in NY but one needs to be fairly specific, otherwise its a dead end I think.  
Laura - is the draft card the one information Ancestry. It really set my curiousity going.

[Eva Dahlberg]

The death records for New York City are online for free here, (period 1891-1942) where they also have naturalization records (medborgarskap) and marriage records. But you don't know he staid there.
 
And I already searched the SSDI for you, that covers most of the years.
 
The census is the most detailed folkbokföring they have in the US...
 
Hälsningar,
Eva
 
PS. I see under the discussion for Gamla Uppsala that you have order the church books. When you know when his parents died, order their bouppteckning from Uppsala Landsarkiv, that could give information about his whereabouts in the US.
 
As the draft card list his mother as closest relative, he was not married at the time and his father was dead. So a lead may be in her bouppteckning.

[Judy Olson Baouab]

Claes,
 
You said The 1930 census does not seem to provide information on individuals, thats at least what I understood. I don't know how that idea was given to you but it is incorrect.
 
The 1930 census absolutely does provide very detailed information on individuals. :-) I've gathered much information from it. Do not skip this very valuable resource. If it hadn't been for the 1930 census information, I would never have found the valuable clue which allowed me to find the descendants of two of my farmors sisters in Jamestown, New York.
 
I never had any idea that my farmors brother was in a war but the 1930 census said he served in the Spanish American War. I found the same useful information for other relatives suspected to have fought in a war. I learned which families had radios :-) and where certain relatives lived, and that my Aunt Jean really had another first name which she later said she hated and never used. Even her daughter didn't know about this name. (Aunt Jean is in her eighties and still is active and healthy, so she admitted that the name on the census was hers and not an error.) You will miss many useful and interesting details by assuming incorrectly that the 1930 census doesn't provide information about individuals. You have a listing of the questions asked on that census and all those details will be lost to you if you don't check the 1930 census.
 
Judy

[Claes Calemark]

I have a feeling that he ended up somewhere else eventually as I have 3 black and white photos of a man in his 50's which I strongly suspect is Knut Petri. http://aforum.genealogi.se/discus/messages/11906/81909.html?1137016452
 
is it the same man in both pictures ?  
 
with regards to his father (I believe) dont you agree that he looks older than 62 in the picture ? which would indicate that he was alive in 1918 when Knut Petri wrote his mother as the closest relative.
So much is a big mystery to me; why my father  didnt know anything about his uncles and his grandparents but I am determined to find out !

[Claes Calemark]

Hi Judy  
I just read from the note to genealogist
quote  
The data extraction system is not suited for genealogical research. The system is not a search engine. You cannot search for any particular name in the data, and the system will not select out cases on the basis of name.  
 
If you wish to try your luck with the data, you should also be aware, if you are not already, that the data is raw (i.e., it is just strings of numbers with names and addresses embedded). Each line represents an individual or household. The IPUMS codebook is required
unqoute
 
On your recommendeation however I will check it out

[Karen Kelsey]

The closest I come to finding Knut Petri Karlson in the 1920 census for NY is a listing for KNUT CARLSON, age 39, in Kings County, NY.  It says that he came in 1905, was married and had children.  However, this Knut lived in the same building as John Carlson, age 35, who came to this country in 1903. Since the date of emigration does not match, I doubt that this is your Knut.  I searched under Carlson, Carlsson, Karlson and Karlsson, and also did a search under the first name of both Knut or Peter.  I searched under the name Knut, born in Sweden, for the entire U.S. for the 1920 census.  I do not have access to the 1930 census, so I will wait to see if someone else tries to look him up in that census.  If not, then I will try to find him when I go to our local library - where they have Ancestry 1930 census.

[Karen Kelsey]

Did you notice that there is a listing in the NY marriage index (see the above reference) for a KNUT P. KARLSON, marriage date= 15-Dec 1928 in Brooklyn, NY.  Maybe the site lets you order a copy.

[Judy Olson Baouab]

Claes,
 
You said: The data extraction system is not suited for genealogical research. I have no idea where you found this statement or what it has to do with the 1930 census, but the censuses are readily available online (using subscription sites, such as ancestry.com) or on microfilm, which can be ordered from any Family History Center worldwide or which can be seen at any National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) site in the U.S. I have seen this census many times. It is not just strings of numbers with names and addresses embedded. I certainly didn't need any codebook to read the census! It looked like any other U.S. census.  
 
This is a copy of a blank form for the 1930 census. It lacks the names and information but a completed page will look like this with the information included. There won't be just coded information.
 
http://www.ipums.umn.edu/usa/voliii/form1930.html
 
You can ask for a lookup on this board but people often provide just a little bit of the information. Perhaps someone will scan the image and send it to you if you ask.
 
http://genforum.genealogy.com/recordlookups/
 
Judy

[Judy Olson Baouab]

Claes,
 
I put your quote into the Google search engine and I see the site you found.  
 
http://www.ipums.umn.edu/usa/gen.html
 
It is not talking about the 1930 census being strings of coded information. IPUMS is not the same as the 1930 census.
 
Apparently someone is doing some statistical work using the censuses as a database and it is that statistical work which is coded and doesn't show individual information. The actual censuses are very helpful in telling us about individuals in our ancestry.
 
I clicked on What is the IPUMS? on the left side of the page and found this information.
 
The Integrated Public Use Microdata Series (IPUMS) consists of thirty-eight high-precision samples of the American population drawn from fifteen federal censuses and from the American Community Surveys of 2000-2004. Some of these samples have existed for years, and others were created specifically for this database. The thirty-eight samples, which draw on every surviving census from 1850-2000, collectively comprise our richest source of quantitative information on long-term changes in the American population. However, because different investigators created these samples at different times, they employed a wide variety of record layouts, coding schemes, and documentation. This has complicated efforts to use them to study change over time. The IPUMS assigns uniform codes across all the samples and brings relevant documentation into a coherent form to facilitate analysis of social and economic change.
 
Judy

[calemark]

Thanks again for all your assistance,  
Karen - how interesting to find a Knut P from Brooklyn in the marriage index ! he would have been 45 at the time. Agree it doesnt seem so likely that its the Knut K in Kings county in 1920 census, age doesnt match.  
 
I posted a lookup request on the genline forum , perhaps  it will give some more information.

[Karen Kelsey]

I found your Knut Carlson in the 1930 census.  Here is the information:
Kings County, New York - area= Bow of Brooklyn
   (I do not know what that means, perhaps they lived in what was called the Bowry)
KNUT CARLSON:  Head of household, age- 47, born in Sweden and parents were born in Sweden.  Immigrated in 1911 and was naturalized by 1930.  He worked as an engineer and the place he worked for seemed to say institution.  He had been steadily employed for the entire last year, but he did NOT serve in the military.  He rented his apartment for $35.00 a year, and he and his wife owned a radio.  Note that he said he was born in Sweden. The draft registration card said native born, but they just made a mistake.
Knut's wife was EBBA CARLSON, age 41.  She and her parents had all been born in Sweden. She did not come to the country until 1923 and listed herself as an alien.  She did not work.  No children were listed.  I cannot find her maiden name in that marriage index.
   DO YOU WANT A COPY OF THIS CENSUS PAGE?

[Judy Olson Baouab]

Well, here is one Ebba born about the right time who emigrated in 1923. I found her on the Emibas cd. I don't know if she is yours, though. She was a kontorist = clerk.
 
Post 185155
 
Strid, Ebba Charlotta
Kontorist (unmarried woman)
 
b. 6/11/1889 in Jönköping, Jönköpings län (Småland)
 
Emigrated 9/21/1923
from L Kv 36, Jönköpings Kristina, Jönköpings län (Småland)
to USA
 
Source: Household Examination Roll, p. 2455
 
Emibas migration file ID: Jönköpings Kristina F 1923 016
 
I found more Ebbas of about the right age on the Emihamn database of CD Emigranten.
 
First name: EBBA
Last name: ANDERSSON
Age: 33     Gender: K
Parish: BORÅS     County: P
Title/Note: H (wife)
Port: GÖTEBORG
Date: 1923 04 07
Destination: ROCKFORD IL
Fellows: NEJ
Source: 109:681:34330
 
She traveled with:
 
First name: SONJA
Last name: ANDERSSON
Age: 13     Gender: K
Parish: BORÅS     County: P
Port: GÖTEBORG
Date: 1923 04 07
Destination: ROCKFORD IL
Fellows: JA
Source: 109:681:34330
 
 
First name: EBBA
Last name: PETTERSSON
Age: 33     Gender: K
Parish: STOCKHOLMSSTAD     County: A
Title/Note: SERVITÖR (waiter)
Port: GÖTEBORG
Date: 1923 08 11
Destination: NEW YORK
Fellows: NEJ
Source: 110:825:40929 B
 
First name: EBBA
Last name: STRIDH (also found on Emibas)
Age: 34     Gender: K
Parish: JÖNKÖPING     County: F
Title/Note: HUSARB
Port: GÖTEBORG
Date: 1923 12 29
Destination: NEW YORK
Fellows: NEJ
Source: 111:1185:29771
 
First name: EBBA
Last name: TÖRNQVIST
Age: 32     Gender: K
Parish: RAMNÄS     County: Y
Title/Note: HUSARB
Port: GÖTEBORG
Date: 1923 07 07
Destination: NEW YORK
Fellows: NEJ
Source: 110:415:21264
 
She seemed to be with:
 
First name: ANNA
Last name: TÖRNQVIST SVEN
Age: 58     Gender:  
Parish: RAMNÄS     County: Y
Title/Note: SE SVENSSON
Port: GÖTEBORG
Date: 1923 07 07
Destination: NEW YORK
Fellows: NEJ
Source: 110:415:21263
 
 
First name: FREDRIK
Last name: TÖRNQVIST SVEN
Age: 60     Gender:  
Parish: RAMNÄS     County: Y
Title/Note: SE SVENSSON
Port: GÖTEBORG
Date: 1923 07 07
Destination: NEW YORK
Fellows: NEJ
Source: 110:415:21263
 
 
First name: EBBA VAL NAE
Last name: NILSSON
Age: 33     Gender: K
Parish: SILLHÖVDA     County: K
Title/Note: F STENÅSA
Port: GÖTEBORG
Date: 1923 09 18
Destination: MONTREAL
Fellows: JA
Source: 111:303:8727
 
The last Ebba traveled with:
 
First name: KNUT TORVALD
Last name: NILSSON
Age: 34     Gender: M
Parish: SILLHÖVDA     County: K
Title/Note: F STENÅSA
Port: GÖTEBORG
Date: 1923 09 18
Destination: MONTREAL
Fellows: NEJ
Source: 111:303:8727
 
Judy

[Claes Calemark]

this is indeed very interesting information, although dissappointing that there where no children at that time.  considering Ebbas age in 1930, not very likey that children came afterwards either.
My own guess is that he married Ebba Törnquist as she and her parents came from the same village as Knuts father, Ramnnäs so they probably knew each other from before.  
I would very much like to have a copy of the census page, please. again I am more than grateful for all help and assistance you have provided. Now I just have to find out what happened to them, where they ended up.