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Författare Ämne: Tösse AI:1 (1757-1761) - translation  (läst 735 gånger)

2012-09-03, 16:23
läst 735 gånger

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Hello,
I was hoping someone can tell me what title appears in front of Bryngel Jonsson in Sörgarden Tösse. Could it be “Klockare”?  
Household Record Tösse AI:1 (1757-1761) Image 29/ Pg. 21
 
I believe this title (albeit with different spellings) also appears on other records, such birth records for his children.
They are:
Tösse C:3 (1756-1781) Image 8/ Pg. 5 ---For daughter Maria born July 28 1756
Tösse C:3 (1756-1781) Image16/ Pg.21 ---For son Jonas born December 20 1759
 
Any help will be greatly appreciated,
Thanks in advance,
Mary

2012-09-03, 18:26
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Mary!
 
You're right, the title is Klockare = 'clerk'
 
/ Andreas

2012-09-03, 18:47
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Thanks, Andreas, for such a quick response.
 
Now for a clarification.
SweGGate dictionary states that a Klockare is Title for an employee of the church in a parish. Originally his duties included taking care of the church and its inventory and  to ring the church bells, hence the name klockare (klocka = bell).
 
Is it safe for me to assume that this is what he did? Or could Klockare be a general term for anything that needs a clerk?
 
And can I assume because the household record also says B, Bonde, he also was a farmer? (Had two jobs?)
 
Hopes this makes sense.
 
Mary

2012-09-03, 19:53
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Mary,
 
He was a farmer but also did the tasks of the klockare, which I think is the job listed on SweGGate. I have a few klockare in my ancestry. (one man and a few of his sons later on, to be exact)
 
Judy

2012-09-03, 20:21
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Mary,  
 
Just clerk is too imprecise. My dictionary says klockare = parish clerk and organist - just about what the SweGGate definition says.

2012-09-03, 21:18
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My dictionary - from 1939 - translates klockare as vestry-keeper or sacristan.
 
What the klockare actually did varied greatly from time to time and from place to place. In one place, at one time the klockare may have rung the bells, been parish clerk, organist, led the church choir and run the parish school (actually, both running it and teaching). While at another place, another time the klockare was no more than a janitor (though still ringing the bells).
It depended somewhat on what the church centrally decided were the klockare's responsibilites, but more on the klockare's training and abilites - and mostly on what the vicar thought was appropriate.
 
Bell-ringing in Sweden was (is) generally a very simple affair - no change ringing, and only a few carillons (generally speaking only in cities and there mostly where there was a German congregation).
 
Ingela

2012-09-03, 21:35
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Thanks to each of you for all of your responses.
I am thrilled to get a little bit more of understanding of what and how my relatives lived in Sweden. To me it is so much better than just dates.
Thanks again for your help.
Mary.

2012-09-04, 07:19
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My early ancestors in Brålanda (P) always were listed with full baptism dates at a time when most were only listed with a year of birth. That is the parish where I have some klockare in my ancestry.  
 
Judy

2012-09-04, 13:26
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Judy,
 
Since you have ancestors that were klockare, maybe you know if this was an important job in the parrish. (actually your relatives lived not that far from  mine)
 
Since the church was an important part in the lives of people back then, was this responsibility only given to someone who was favored in the community? Or maybe was related to the vicar? Or maybe had money?
 
Just wondering,
Mary

2012-09-05, 07:03
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I have the impression that being a klockare was an honorable position. I don't know if it was actually a job. I don't know if they were actually paid. Perhaps the Swedes can comment. ;-)
 
Judy

2012-09-05, 13:00
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Certainly klockare was a paid job (by the church, i.e. by the state). Like nearly everybody in the countryside that had some sort of profession or occupation, the klockare were also farmers. Yes, from the vicar or the colonel down to the tailor or the mid-wife - all farmers.
 
As a klockare you applied for the job and presented your merits (a CV, quite simply). Then it depended on what the vicar was after - the high-end one or the low-end one. Klockare was always a respected position, but the high-end ones were as close to being gentry (Sw. eqv. ståndsperson) as was possible without actually being it.
 
Since it was a job that could require quite a lot of schooling, many klockare came from other parts of the county or diocese or even of the country. In fact, this isn't a bad indication if it was the more qualified sort of klockare or not - the more qualified the more likely it was that he came from outside the parish.
 
I doubt the vicar wanted a relative as klockare - professionally they worked close together but socially the vicar most definitely was gentry while the klockare wasn't. So how did you handle that situation if you were related to one another? Did you invite the klockare to dinner or not?
 
Had money - nobody had money in Sweden. Yes, there were of course rich people but they had very little money - their wealth was in the land they owned. And everybody worked. Certainly an estate owner had a nicer job than a farmhand, but the leisured class as in living off an inherited fortune (managed by your man of business) and doing nothing didn't exist in Sweden. Jane Austen's novels couldn't have been written in Sweden.
 
Ingela

2012-09-05, 19:21
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Thank you, Ingela. I learned a lot from your comments. Since the klockare was paid, that payment should be in the parish account books, I suppose. I wonder if the parish minutes would mention the klockare's hiring.
 
Judy

2012-09-05, 19:29
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Judy, at least in my parish of Nordmark (Värmland) the appointment of a new klockare is discussed several times in the parish minutes. In the 1740s the klockare became mentally ill and ran away with the notes for entering births in the church records, which caused lots of problems, including the need for a new klockare.

2012-09-05, 20:55
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I also want to thank you, Ingela for such great information. Based on Judy's question about the hiring of a Klockare, I thought I would try and find Bryngel Jonsson. I paged through the Sockensämmoprotokoll in Tösse C:2 (1717-1755) image 249/Page 487 and I think I might have found him!  
The first mention of a Klocare Bryngel from Sörgårdenon is note 3 on page 486 and then on page 487 under points 4 & 5.
 
If this is my Bryngel, can someone make out the what it is saying about him?
Probably not that important, but now I am so  curious.
 
Mary

2012-09-05, 21:40
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When a parish recruited a new klockare, hed had know how to read and write BUT it was very important that he was good singer, because he conducted the singing. In the late 1800th Klockaren also became responsible for the vaccination in the parish.
 
I have ancestors in Värmland who has been klockare (3) - one of them in the same parish as his father and brother were priests....
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av ingmarie 2012-09-05 21:40)

2012-09-06, 17:19
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Tack så mycket, Elisabeth. I'll try to check further for klockare in Brålanda when I get to the SAG Workshop. Your finding about the mentally ill klockare is interesting. (Did they ever get the notes back?)
 
Tack så mycket, Ing-Marie, about the comment you made saying that a klockare had to be a good singer. That is so interesting!
 
Judy

 

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