Äldre inlägg (arkiv) till 2003-07-02

[Erland de Flon]

Önskar information om barnen till Carl Johan de Flon f 1811-02-18 Gärdserum Småland d 1880-10-30 St. Bondegatan Stockholm och h.h. Maria Stina f 1814-07-22 Blackstad Småland d 1890-07-30. Barnen Olof Hubert Eugenius f 1836-05-12, Sofia Charlotta f 1840-12-28, Wilhelmina Cecilia f 1844-05-26 samt Carl Gustaf f 1846-05-03, alla födda i Blackstad Småland. De utflyttade 1855 från Gothem Gotland till Stockholm. Carl Johans bror Gustaf Georg de Flon f 1821-09-14 Gärdserum utflyttade 1849 från Gothem til Stockholm, även hans vidare öden vore intressanta.

[Margareta de Floon]

Hej Erland!
Jag heter Margareta de Flon och bor i Lindesberg.
Jag har också forskat i släkten de Flon och skulle vilja ha kontakt med dig per telefon 0581/152 88 om du har lust att ringa. Jag saknar internet.

[Erland de Flon]

Hej Monica!
Jag ringer.
Hälsningar Erland

[Erland de Flon]

Förlåt! Jag menade Margareta.

[Margareta de Flon]

Hej,
 
Mitt namn ärMargareta de Flon och jag bor i Lindesberg, är ingift i de Flon-släkten. Har kommit till c:a 1724 och då heter personen ifråga
Carl Petter de Flon och är tydligen född i Häll-
stad utanför Ulricehamn. Hans far heter Elias de
Flon och modern Madame de Flon. Kan någon ge mig
upplysningar om Elias och hans hustru, var de är
född o s v.
Söker även upplysningar om en löjtnant Gillius de
Flon, född i Östergötland, vet ej var men har bott
eller haft anknytning till Timmele i Västergötland
Gillius har enligt uppgift också en son vid namn Carl Petter samt en dotter som heter Christina Juliana.
 
Många hälsningar
 
Margareta de Flon
Bättringsvägen l C, 7ll 35 Lindesberg

[Per Schröder]

Hej! Jag har i min forskning hittat en Carl Peter de Flon f 17/2 1726 d 21/1 1803 och gift 1750 med Brita Cecilia Bagge (syster till min anfader Fredrik Nilsson Bagge f 7/8 1710). Är detta densamme Carl Peter du har?
Många hälsningar  
Per Schröder

[Sven-Ove Brattström]

Hej,
Appelgren nämner i sin bok VALLONERNAS NAMN två stycken De Flon.
1637-1666 Finspång mantal: Gilius de Flon i Lortorp med hustru Maria och sonen Gilius.
1662-08-10 Risinge C:2 Gilius de Flon (sonen)i Loretorp vigs vid Anna Frumerie i Finspång.
MVH     Sven-Ove

[majbritt karlsson]

Hej,
Detta är vad jag samlat ang. en gren av släkten  
de Flon. Inte precis svar på ovanstående men någonstans finns säkert ett samband.
 
1. Johan Deflon född 1707-03-21 i Risinge   Östergötland
gm. Maria Arfvidsdotter  
barn:
Christina 1740-12-29
Elias 1745-03-16
Katarina 1747-07-10
Peter 1750-04-27
Anna Maria 1764-02-16
 
2. Johan (Jean) Deflon 1668-09-15
gm.Elisabeth Preniche  
barn:
Gillius 1704-12-17
Jacob 1706-02-18
Johan 1707-03-21 (ana 1 )
Hindrick 1708-06-14
Ann Lischen 1709
Maria Catharina 1712-03-13
 
4. Gillius De Flon 1637-05-18
gm.Anna Frumerie  
barn.
Abraham 1663-10-19
Johan (Jean) 1668-09-15 (ana 2)
Petter 1672-03-03
Maria 1673-04-02
Anna Catharina 1676-03-12
William 1680-02-18
Daniel 1681-03-16
Gillius 1682-03-06
Daniel 1683-03-21
Carl 1684-10-08
 
8.Gillius Janson Constant de Flon
gm. Maria Evrard  
barn:
Mariana 1636
Gillius 1637-05-18 (ana 4)
Johan 1638?
Petter 1640?
 
16.Johan Costant De Flon
gm. Maria de Besche  
barn:
Gillius (ana
Constans
Katarina  
 
MVH majbritt

[Roger Jarl]

Jag har hittat en Karl Magnus de Flon, f. 1840 i Gestad (P).

[M de Flon]

Hej,
Önskar åter igen uppgifter om Elias de Flon och
hans hustru som kallas madame de Flon, var eller
när Elias är född vet jag inte. Hur många barn paret har vet jag inte men en son vid namn Carl Petter de Flon är född 1724 i Hällstad norr om
Ulricehamn. Möjligen kan Elias vara född i Väster-
götland och ännu troligare i Östergötland, ev i
Risinge-trakten.
TAcksam svar till Margareta de Flon, Bättringsv 1C
7ll 35 Lindesberg el tel 058l-l5288.

[Anders Pemer]

Den löjtnant Gilius de Flon, född i Östergötland, som hade en son vid namn Carl Petter samt en dotter vid namn Christina Juliana torde vara den Gilius f 1682-03-06 som Majbritt Karlsson nämner i sin uppställning den 4 oktober, son av Gilius de Flon och Anna Frumerie.
 
Har i ett telefonsamtal med en annan Frumerieforskare för bara någon timme sedan fått hans biografi ur Lewenhaupts Karl XII:s officerare uppläst, och det verkar otvivelaktigt vara samme Gilius. Jag ska kontrollera det så fort jag har tillfälle att titta i ett exemplar. Jag har för mig att födelseåret var just 1682, men jag återkommer om det.
 
Anna Frumeries bror Jean var gift med en släkting till mig vid namn Pemer.
 
Kan inte uppgiften att Karl Petter de Flons fars namn ska ha varit Elias vara en misstolkning av just Gilius? Eller är det en långsökt tolkning?

[Kjell Lindblom]

Hej Anders!
 
Din tolkning är helt korrekt. Namnet Gillius kan ibland bli Elias, när en svensk skrivare håller i pennan. Namnen är fonetiskt lika.
 
Hälsningar Kjell

[Bob Williams]

I am descended from Anders Frederic de Flon, born Stockholm 29 July 1832, arrived Sydney Australia 1857. Father believed to be Carl de Flon, born about 1800, mother Caroline (or Brigitta Caroline) Sohlberg, but I do not have documentation. Can anyone help me with Anders/Carl de Flon ancestry please? I apologose for not understanding Swedish, and my Swedish - English dictionary is not much help.

[Christer Påhlsson]

Hi Bob,
I don't know how much you know about the de Flons in earlier times. But this may perhaps be of interest at some stage of your research:
- Johan Constant de Flon, b in Bourdeaux France, marries in Li?ge (in the then French-speaking Spanish Netherlands) Maria Gilliusdotter De Besche, whose family, stemming from the same area, had immigrated to Sweden.
They had at least 3 children (all 3 married):
- Gillis Johansson Constant de Flon, d after 1646, ”formeur” & owner of Lotorps Bruk in Risinge parish in the province of Östergötland, Sweden
- Constans Constant de Flon, brewer in Norrköping in Östergötland
- Catharina de Flon, also living at Norrköping
Best regards

[Bob Williams]

Hi Christer,
Many thanks for your message. I have an original letter written in English by John de Flon in Minnesota to his brother Anders in Sydney in 1878 in which he said he had a file of papers from their deceased father (Carl de Flon?) which traced their family ancestry. The Pedigree is a complete one from the first de Flon who came to Sweden from France to and including our family he said, so I know that the line is, or was, traceable, and I have just restarted, having got nowhere when I tried many years ago. The Johan Constant de Flon you referred to could well be that first de Flon, and thanks for some information on his descendants. Could you tell me what is Lotorps Bruk? and is a formeur something like a founder? Do you have any connection with the de Flon or the de Besche families?
Best regards
Bob

[Anders Pemer]

Hi Bob,
 
On a CD-ROM listing people living in the part of Stockholm called Södermalm during the late 1800?s and the early 1900?s there are a number of de Flons.
 
One of them is Birgitta Karolina de Flon, n?e Sahlberg (with an a instead of an o!) born 1811-07-27, widow of a factory owner, entered into a chapter of Katarina parish in 1882. She has two daughters with her, Ida Maria, born 1836-03-04 in the city of Varberg, and Anna Margareta Elisabet, born 1845-11-18 at Grytnäs.
 
Ida Maria de Flon emigrated to America 1883-04-25, Anna Margareta Elisabet de Flon moved to parish Sköldinge in Södermanland (just about where my family have their summer house, actually) 1880-10-05.
 
If the assumptions about Anders Fredric?s family is correct, this should be his mother and sisters. I have collected material on branches of the de Flon family spreading forward through time from one of the first Gilius de Flon, who married Anna Frumerie of another walloon family. Her brother was married to a Pemer.
 
I haven?t found the de Flon branch, which these members of the family belong to, as of yet, but since you write that Anders Fredric was born in Stockholm, I?ll go into the city archive within an hour or so (they are open until 7 PM, and it?s about 3 PM right now), and see if I can find him.
 
As soon as we can connect your de Flons with the main family tree, I can supply you with your entire de Flon ancestry since the family came to Sweden. Anna Frumerie, 1645-1700, married 1662 to Gilius de Flon, 1637-1688, had four daughters and nine sons, out of which at least three or four were married and have descendants with the de Flon name, at least some generations forward in time. I have started to trace the de Flon family tree fairly recently, and I haven?t even connected those de Flons, alive in Sweden today, with the tree yet.

[Christer Påhlsson]

Hi Bob,
Lotorps Bruk was a factory, but as I have no access to any suitable book of reference at the moment, I cannot exactly say what kind. My guess would be that it might have been a cannon factory.
Formeur is French, but I am not quite sure what it would be in Swedish or English, so a dictionary should help you out.
I have an indirect connection with the De Besche family.
Best regards

[Jonas Kuschner (Jonas)]

Werner Pursche published an article, Släkten de Flon. De äldsta svenska leden (The de Flon family. The earliest Swedish generations), in the Swedish genealogical journal Släkt och Hävd 1976:3, p. 180-188. It is well documented with references to primary sources and previously published research, but only covers the 17th century. Pursche frequently refers to Björn Helmfrid's history of Norrköping (Norrköpings historia, tiden 1568-1655, Stockholm 1965). In Helmfrid's work there is also something about Lotorps bruk.
 
What may be of interest is that Pursche also mentions a genealogy made in the 19th century in connection with a legal process concerning inheritance after a merchant Jean Thierry (1589-1676) in Venice (or his extict closest heirs), whose sister was claimed to have been an Anna Maria, married to Gillis de Flon [senior] (or Gillis Johansson). Pursche finds the genealogical information questionable and impossible to verify in contemporary sources. This Anna Maria is elsewhere only mentioned as Maria, and is apparently the one which Majbritt Karlsson above refers to (without mentioning her source - where does the information come from?) as Maria Evrard.
 
Whatever the case may be, this genealogy may well be the one that Bob Williams says was mentioned in a letter. Pursche does not seem to have had access to the genealogy itself, but some of the information from the genealogy and about the process is apparently available in Victor Örnberg's collection in the regional archives in Vadstena (Vadstena landsarkiv).
 
One member of the family, Johan de Flon (d. 1687), was 1674 ennobled with the name Adlercrona. According to Pursche, he is most likely to be identified with a Johan, son of this Gilius Johansson or Gillis de Flon [sr]. I do not at the moment have Elgenstierna available to compare the information there. Sometimes additional information on other members and branches of families with ennobled members is available in the old, unpublished genealogies of Riddarhuset (The House of Nobility), in particular in those of N. W. Marks v. W?rtenberg, but if the place within the family of Johan de Flon/Adlercrona is as uncertain as Pursche indicates, this seems less likely.

[Bob Williams]

Hi Anders  Hi Christer  Hi Jonas
Thank you for your messages. Sorry I haven't acknowledged them earlier, but an 8-hour local power failure yesterday ruined my plans. I really am overwhelmed !!! by your kindness in taking the time to help me. I did not in my wildest dreams think that I would receive so much help and get so much information on my ancestors in so short a time, having spent considerable time and got nowhere 20 or so years ago.
 
Anders: I am sure you have found Anders de Flon's mother and sisters. He married Emily Bond,(born Reading, Berkshire, England) in Sydney in 1857, had 11 children but only 6 survived infancy. Two daughters were named Ida Illriga, and Ann Elizabeth. When you come to do that part of the tree descended from Anders, I will be pleased to provide details of all children, their spouses, and in the case of my line, their siblings and their spouses also. I would indeed be grateful if you could find the record of Anders' birth as I have no documentation at all of his father's details. You mentioned that you have information of descendants from the first Gilius de Flon, but I notice from Christer's first message that Johan Constant de Flon had another son also, Constans Constant de Flon, and that he married. Is there another branch descended from him?
 
Christer, thank you for your information. I had heard of Lotorps Bruk but had not the faintest idea what it was. Can I trouble you once more? As formeur is French, do you happen to have an article on Lotorps Bruk or Gillis de Flon in French?
 
Jonas, thank you for your detailed contribution, which I understand raises the question as to whether the wife of Gillis de Flon (snr) was the sister of John Thierry. I cannot contribute. As to the genealogy, in the letter from John de Flon to Anders he says that he had translated the Pedigree into English and intended to have 12 copies printed.  In a second letter he stated he also intended to bring his wife (unnamed) and daughter Cecilia Helen to join Anders in Sydney in the near future and details of shipping lines and arrangements for meeting on arrival were raised. Nothing more was heard from him. There is family speculation that the ship (unnamed) might have sunk, but I have not found any record of a ship lost that fits in with other details. Another possibility is that he became ill, and died, or was accidentally killed. I mention these details because there is the very very remote chance that the documents he referred to survive somewhere. I have started to search in the US for possible descendants. There is mention of another brother, Frans, also contemplating migrating to the US, and an uncle, Andrew G Sohlberg also lived in the same state, and he used to visit. You mention a journal article, and as it happens, I received in the last few days a copy from another kind correspondent, Ishbel Cormack, which she said was a copy of one she had earlier received from Sam Blixt. I have not yet had it translated, but skimming through it, it seems, as you say, to deal with the 17th century. I did notice, however, several mentions of a C.G.de Flon on pp 181-2 together with dates of 1845 and 1850. Do you, perchance, know what the initials stand for? I raise this out of interest because I understand Anders' father's name to be Carl, Anders named his eldest son Charles and he in turn named his son (my maternal grandfather) George.
Thank you all, again.
Bob.

[Jonas Kuschner (Jonas)]

C.G. would most usually stand for Carl Gustaf, but may well be Carl Georg (as well as a few other name combinations). If this is indeed the right person, I don't expect it to be too difficult to ascertain that he is the father of Anders Fredrik. According to Pursche, he was a master tanner in Gothenburg and later manager of a tannery in Stockholm. If he died there, there is presumably an estate inventory in the city archives, which would list his heirs. I didn't mention it above, as I expected Anders Pemer to give you a more complete report of his findings in the archives.

[Anders Pemer]

Never write in a discussion that you will go to the city archive within mere hours! A mistake I did. Things sort of got in the way, as they often tend to do. But I will actually try to make myself free during daytime tomorrow. If that doesn?t work I?ll have to try next Monday night around again. So sorry!

[Christer Påhlsson]

I found the word formeur in inverted commas in the book Norrköpings Historia (v. above) (in Swedish), the original being obviously thought of as being more to the point than a translation. This was obviously the word this de Flon actually used himself at some point.
Good luck, Bob!

[Bob Williams]

Thank you all again.
 
Jonas: Anders named a son Gustavus Thule. Also, in the letter from John de Flon to Anders, he mentions Gustav in the context of referring to other family members, but the actual relationship is not known as a fragment of the letter is missing. I assume he was another brother. Anyhow, the question of whether C.G.de Flon is the father of Anders will I assume be resolved from the archives.  
On the matter of the remote possibility that the documents, or a copy, might survive, it could have course transpired that John changed his mind about coming to Australia for any number of reasons, or was forced by changed circumstances. In addition to other family members being in the US, from what Anders Pemer has found, another sister Ida Maria, migrated in 1883.
Another matter I meant to raise was that you referred to Johan de Flon having been ennobled with the name Adlercrona. Could you tell me what that means please?  
Thanks again
Bob

[Jonas Kuschner (Jonas)]

Family names were taken within the old nobility mostly during the 16th and early 17th century - before that only patronymics were used, with some exceptions. These family names were usually taken from the coat of arms of the family, with examples such as the names Sparre (from sparre, eng. chevron) or Bielke (from bjälke, eng. fess). Eventually, as the simplest and shortest names, which were considered the most prestigious, had already been taken by well-known families, new such names acquired a composite form, such as Månesköld (Moon-shield) or Silfversparre (Silver chevron).
 
Thus it became a convention for newly ennobled individuals to take this type of composite heraldic names as well. Ennobled foreigners or individuals with old family names often kept their old names, but others chose to change theirs, among them apparently Johan de Flon. Adlercrona is derived from the German Adler (eagle) and Swedish crona (crown).

[Bob Williams]

Jonas: Thank you for your explanation, it was most comprehensive. You are contributing to my education in leaps and bounds. Would you allow me some follow-up questions please? What was the procedure by which someone was ennobled? Clearly, it seems, it was not by heredity. Was it by royal appointment? What were the criteria? Were there heritary nobility also?  
In searching for Maria de Besche, I came across a site Gerhard de Besche which shows the epitafium of several family members. Do these include their coats of arms? Were they of the nobility, and if so, were there family members who were not?
Would Johan Constant de Flon have a coat of arms? If so could you tell me where I might find an illustration of it?
On another topic, I have opened two message boards on FamilyHistory.com in the names of de Flon and Deflon, and cross-referenced them. I have done this because a correspondent drew my attention to the fact that there are 17 entries under Deflon in the Social Security Death Index, and only one under de Flon I have raised the matter of the de Flon pedigree and the possibility that the documents or a printed copy may have survived. Here's hoping that something will turn up.
Thanks again.
Bob

[Jonas Kuschner (Jonas)]

There are some families of ancient nobility, i.e. that have had this status for as long as they are recorded, but in the medieval period one had to meet certain criteria (military service to the king being the most basic) to keep this status. The term nobility (adel) is however not quite correct in describing this class, even though it has its immediate continuation in the adel of the early modern period.
 
Since the beginning of the modern period (ca 1500), ennoblement was given by the Regent (King, reigning Queen and, I suppose, regency governments in periods when the heir to the throne was a minor) through a Letter of Ennoblement (adelsbrev, also called a sköldebrev), often upon application from the individual himself. Once ennobled, the family kept their status, even if it was sometimes forgotten in d?class? families. Only criminals could lose their nobiliary status (such as for instance the regicide J. J. Anckarström).
 
Obviously and per definition, anyone who was ennobled did not belong to the nobility before that point - even though later uncritical genealogies may sometimes try to convey that idea - but from that point he and his descendants did so belong. And in the modern period there has not been any non-hereditary nobility in Sweden (as opposed to some other countries, such as Denmark or Russia). This is just meant as a brief and in many ways simplified explanation.
 
Epitaphia of noblemen usually included their arms. I cannot give you any information in particular cases. As far as the de Besche family is concerned, I think one member of this family was ennobled. His relatives, of course, were not included in that nobiliary status, only his immediate male-line descendants.
 
Commoners also used arms, especially bourgeois families of foreign origin - which means there is a fair chance one would be able to find one for the de Flon family - but they were not usually displayed in the same way. The best way to find a coat of arms of someone not belonging to the nobility, would be to make a systematic search for documents with seal-impressions. But even then the tinctures (colours) of the arms would usually not be known.
 
The best site (and indeed the best reference work, online and offline) for arms of commoners in Sweden, is that of Magnus Bäckmark:
 
http://hem.passagen.se/gronstub/
 
Bäckmark does not offer any example of any de Flon arms. But with all the de Flon researchers active on this board, maybe somebody else has seen a legible heraldic seal inpression?

[Bob Williams]

Jonas: Thank you very much for your explanation of Swedish nobility. I would be interested to know if there was a de Flon crest, and perhaps someone will be able to find one. I have concurrently been reading up on Swedish history, and have become aware of the battle in 1709 in which many Swedish troops under Karl XII were captured and held as prisoners of war in Russia, although Karl XII himself escaped. A corresondent has emailed me with the information that his ancestor Gillius (Elias) de Flon was liutenant and was one of those captured. That leads me to some more questions, which I should perhaps ask Anders Pemer. Thank you again.
 
Anders: Can you help me please? I notice reference by yourself and Margareta de Flon and other contributors to, as I understand it, this lietenant Gillius de Flon. With my embarrassing lack of knowledge of Swedish, do I understand correctly that this Gilius was also known as Elias, and has been identified as the Gilius, son of Gilius and Anna Frumerie, born 1682-03-06, and who in turn had a son Carl Peter? Was the rank of lieutenant somewhat simlar to that of the present day? Was there something particularly notable about his military or civilian service? Thanks in advance.
 
Bob Williams

[Bob Williams]

Hi Anders
 
I have now received an English translation of the journal article on the earliest de Flon generations. It does seem that the C.G.de Flon referred to in the article was my ancestor Carl(?) father of my g/g/grandfather Anders Frederic. The passage from the letter to Anders from his brother John, then in Minnesota U.S., that I have previously quoted, referring to the file of papers including a family pedigree, from their deceased father, continues: It must have taken considerable time, travel, writing correspondence and money for our father to get it up. It seems more than what one would expect if the interest was purely family history. That places a bundle of documents in the U.S. in 1878. I note that my translation of the journal article commences with reference to a bundle of documents handed in to the provincial records office in Vadstena last year meaning, I assume 1975. It therefore does seem to be possible that the bundle of documents somehow found its way back to Sweden and is the bundle handed in as suggested by Jonas on 8 May. The passage in the article is commented on in attached notes. My translation does not include the notes. Could you translate that note for me please? Is anything known about how Lars-Olof Larsson, Regna came to have such a bunle of documents? How could I find out if he is still alive and contactable?
 
Were you able to find out anything at the archives?

[Anita Cederquist]

Släkten deFlon finns omnämnd i en liten skrift från 1935 som heter Lotorps Bruk i Åminnelse samt i två krönikeböcker om Lotorp skrivna av en ABF-studiecirkel i Finspång.

[Pia Nilsson]

Hej!
 
Har någon i sin forskning kring de Flon stött på
min farfar; Ragnvald de Flon boende i Oslo under
1800-1900-talet. Han var gift med Alhilde.
Pia Nilsson