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Författare Ämne: Marianna, Kristina och Ingeborg - svenska monarksdöttrar eller icke-kungliga?  (läst 1101 gånger)

2006-11-07, 00:02
läst 1101 gånger

M.Sjöstrom

History seems to have recorded an existence of:
 
1. Kristina (dc 1248), wife of Henry Borwin, co-ruler of Mecklenburg (c 1170-1226)
 
2. Marianna (dc 1252), one of wives (first?) of Duke Barnim of Pomerania (c 1218-78)
 
3. Ingeborg (?Eriksdotter?), dc 1302, wife of Duke John of Lauenburg (c 1250-1286)
 
- Personally I have doubted the royal paternities somewhere allotted to these ladies, and regarded them just as high Scandinavian ladies, married to those German princelings for example with good dowries or for having better political relations with some mighty family in another country, a trading partner.
 
(I am not sure if these persons each should have a separate discussion thread. However, for now, as much of the problematics is yet common, I asking answers in this one thread.)
 
Are there any reliable references (clear primary sources) of their paternities?
 
Which of those sources are from Germany, which are actually from Sweden?
 
What are the odds that Marianna actually was daughter of Eric X? or that Kristina actually was daughter of Sverker II? or that Ingeborg was daughter of Eric XI, or his sister Ingeborg with jarl Birger? Are those paternities anything more than just hopeful guesses?
 
How probable is that these ladies actually were Swedes? Is any other Scandinavian origin (than from Sweden) probable, in any of those cases?
 
Does these women show any presence in Swedish sources of that time or a little later? In archives, or just in any chronicles or folklore?
 
What are main primary sources there in Germany for paternities of those cases?
 
Are there any signs what these ladies inherited in Sweden/ in Scandinavia? any Nordic landed property going to one of them or to her issue?
 
How accepted are the said (hypothetized) paternities of these, for example compared with generally accepted links of ÄSF?
 
** Name Marianna? Anything similar in actual use in Sweden of that era, or just an invention?
(I have understood that in much of the Middle Ages, virgin Mary's name, as too elevated one, was generally not to be taken by mortals)
Marina? Same as with Marina Valdemarsdotter? - allegedly an aunt of hers.

2006-12-26, 21:03
Svar #1

Utloggad Andreas Oxenstierna

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Swedish sources are very fragmentaric in early Medieval age and even royal genealogies are often uncertain. Nothing seems to be certain about these three Swedish princesses. My guess is that they were connected in some way to the royal families in Sweden as there are several known marriages between Sweden and Northern Germany.
My understanding (as amateur) is the following:
1. Kristina (dc 1248), wife of Henry Borwin, co-ruler of Mecklenburg (c 1170-1226)
 maybe daughter to Sverker Karlsson (d 1210) king of Sweden
 maybe daughter to Birger brosa, duke of Sweden (d 1202)
One son of Kristina, Heinrich Borwin III of Mecklenburg (d 1277/78) was married to a known Swedish princess, Sofia (d before 1241), daughter of Erik Knutsson (d 1216)
see http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristina%2C_furstinna_av_Mecklenburg
 
2. Marianna (dc 1252), one of wives (first?) of Duke Barnim of Pomerania (c 1218-78)
  maybe daughter of Erik Knutsson (d 1216) but not known in any reliable source
 
3. Ingeborg (?Eriksdotter?), dc 1302, wife of Duke John of Lauenburg (c 1250-1286)
 probably daughter of Birger jarl, duke of Sweden (d 1266) and the princess Ingeborg of Sweden (d 1254)
 see http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingeborg_Birgersdotter_%28Bj%C3%A4lbo%C3%A4tten%29
 
The name Marianna is not known in any remaining Swedish letter (see http://fmpro.ra.se/ra/medeltid/soksida.html).

2006-12-26, 22:09
Svar #2

Kalle Thorsberg

Hej Andreas.
 
Jag antar att du läst:
Gillingstam Hans Utomnordiskt och nordiskt i de äldsta svenska dynastiska förbindelserna. PHT 1981 s 17-28, 180
och artiklarna i SBL ?
Wikipedia är sällan ett bra ställe för information.
Vad gäller Marianna som namn bör Du vända Dej till SMP (Sveriges medeltida personnamn). Att Du inte får några träffar vid sökning i regesterna till Diplomatariet, kan ju möjligen bero av den normalisering av stavning som 'Marianna' trots allt innebär.

2007-01-11, 22:43
Svar #3

M.Sjöström

Kalle, than you for the PHT reference. I now digged it out and it is fascinating reading. My questions are almost answered. Additionally, I think I found a couple of small points to criticize in that article, meaning that the assigned ancestry of some of those ladies is yet a bit weaker than the article gives. However, the article itself is quite nicely critical, and leaves not much to hopefuls who desire to build wishful family trees (fortunately the alleged Tofta lineage from Eric X to Charles VIII seems to be consensually buried to graveyard of fabrications, as it deserves). Those assigned ancestries of these ladies seem to be of same quality level as the genealogies through which the alleged inheritance of lion Coat-of-Arms by Tyrgils Knutsson and by Bengt Hafridsson lineage; in other words just educated guesswork which however is not manifestly incorrect.

2007-01-15, 05:15
Svar #4

M.Sjöström

I have now reached conclusions that
 
* Kristina was a daughter or granddaughter of the Galen magnate clan of Skåne. There is actually nothing that would make her Swedish. Reasons why she was proposed as Sverker's daughter, actually come from Kristina's existent kinship with Benedikte Ebbesdatter, Sverker's first wife, another Galen(-Hvide) clanswoman.
 
* Marianna was a daughter probably of a Lower-Saxon prince, and, more clearly, a niece or relation of king Valdemar II of Denmark, who seem to have had her married to a neighboring prince. There is nothing to make Marianna Swedish.
 
* Ingeborg seems to have been youngest daughter of Birger jarl and Eric XI's sister. Her titulary in German sources does not differ from that of Rikissa Birgersdotter's and countess Katarina of Anhalt's.
 
Welcome to shoot down my arguments. Marianna and Kristina are now separate threads, Ingeborg's fate could be argued in this thread.

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