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Författare Ämne: Äldre inlägg (arkiv) till 20 maj, 2012  (läst 3825 gånger)

2012-05-16, 11:34
läst 3825 gånger

Utloggad Olle Elm

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Hi,
I made some corrections above.
 
[color=119911]Yes - everything that you se will remain here .. as long as we have Anbytarforum.[/color]
 
I have copied the link to the beginning of the discussion - nice to save somewhere:
 
 
 
 
 
Vänligen,
Olle
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av smol 2012-05-16 11:54)
Vänligen,
Olle Elm

2012-05-16, 11:50
Svar #1

Utloggad Olle Elm

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Slöta AI:11 (1880-1894) Bild 202 / sid 194
 
I don´t know if you have your own subsciption and will be able to do research from home: If not, here is the householdregister and the starting point.
I will recommend ArkivDigital http://www.arkivdigital.net/ with newly photographed images of the original document.
............................................
I checked the birth of Maja Lena Carlblom in Valstad parish - where I never have been seaching before. I found her birth in Valstad C:3 (1810-1850) Bild 16 / sid 24. The fathers name is Johan Carlbom (sic!) and the mother Kajsa Johansdotter - living in Skattegl Hv - which probably means Valstad skattegård.
 
 
Vänligen,
Olle
 
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av smol 2012-05-16 14:09)
Vänligen,
Olle Elm

2012-05-16, 14:14
Svar #2

Utloggad Olle Elm

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Valstad AI:9 (1830-1835) Bild 13 / sid 76
 
I found the family and - as you see - here we have more and diffrent names  
As you can see Maja Lena is in the family and to understand what has happned, we have to find the family in the next book.
...........................................
Before doing so I googled the name Carlbom and Valstad. Somewhere in my memory I thougt I have seen the name before ...
 
If you go to  
http://www.tidaholmsgf.se/Carlbom.html
and to Tabell 50 (generation 4) - you have your Maja Lena Carlbom, but parts in the pedigree are missing. I do not understand why ...
 
Of course I have no garanties anything is correct, but it can bee interesting to compare, when you continue.
..........................................
This is not easy ... but I found Johan Gabrielsson Carlbom with the full name in Valstad AI:10 (1835-1839) Bild 14 / sid 22 - but still have not found the correct birth for him ...
Vänligen,
Olle
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av smol 2012-05-16 15:43)
Vänligen,
Olle Elm

2012-05-16, 14:45
Svar #3

Utloggad Barry Hill

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 great Olle !  Today I begin to organize, document and understand all that has been provided.  When my books come I will learn better how to trace back in Swedish records.  I will understand how you knew to search where you did search. Maybe you could tell me what it means when a name has a line drawn through it. Also I hope Arkivdigital has enough documentation to help me go back even more.  I want to find and reach out to living family in Sweden that are interested in this search.  I already have some probate records through some help of a forum reader that emailed me.
 
By the way.  I talked to my older sister for hours yesterday telling her of the miracle that transpired here over the last 4 days.  She is as touched and appreciative as I am.
 
Barry

2012-05-16, 15:52
Svar #4

Utloggad Olle Elm

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I reffered to the webside on the Carlbom family above. Its not easy to understand, but mentiones the probably first person in the family who used the name. I scanned from a book on persons from Västergörland who had attended the University of Upsala (Lundqvist, Västgöta Nation i Uppsala, page 108).
 

 
As you can see the name Gabriel is used. The priest died 1788.
............................................
You wrote:  Maybe you could tell me what it means when a name has a line drawn through it.
Answer: Either the person has moved or died.
 
Vänligen,
Olle
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av smol 2012-05-16 16:01)
Vänligen,
Olle Elm

2012-05-16, 16:12
Svar #5

Utloggad Barry Hill

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These are the people you helped me identify.  Carl August Magnusson and Stina Brita Mattsdotter Magnusson have hung on my wall as nameless family members for 30 years.  This is an old poloroid of a large portrait.
 

 
This may not be the appropriate place to discuss this but I have always been puzzled by both of their huge hands and his clearly damaged right hand.  The entire photo seems like a blend between a photo and a painting.  He may have been injured stone cutting.  These are the old parents mentioned in the letter from Anton to Alfred.

2012-05-16, 16:21
Svar #6

Utloggad Barry Hill

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Maria Lena Johnson (Selma Adamsson's / Selma Johnson's mother).  She was misidentified as a Carlson and had Lena written on the back of her photo 50 years ago (I think by my mother who remember that she was a Lena and my mother's G-Grandparent)  

 
 
Another person that deserved to be identified.  Thanks to all of you and those that keep this forum going.  You have restored her name and identity.

2012-05-16, 19:07
Svar #7

Utloggad Olle Elm

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Hi Barry,
Interesting photos! Hope someone can make a comment.
 
................................
 
As you see above I have done som research on Maja Lena whos was called Carlblom in Slöta but was born Carlbom. I have now been able to see the connection between the priest mentioned in the book above and Maja Lena. It lookes like this - and can be completed with more facts:
 
Maja Lena Johansdotter Carlbom, born 1830-11-21 in Valstad skattegård, Valstad parish
 
father: Johan Gabrielsson Carlbom, born 1798 28/3 in Berg, Velinga parish (thanks to ) Died 1853-04-03 in Bosgården 2, Valstad parish.  
 
father: Gabriel Gustavsson (1749-1831), farmer in Berg, Velinga parish
 
mother: Lisken Persdotter Carlbom (1721-1802) wife of rural innkeeper in Haäng, Velinga prish (and she was a sister of the priest!)
 
Facts also from .  
 
Vänligen,
Olle
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av smol 2012-05-16 21:54)
Vänligen,
Olle Elm

2012-05-16, 20:19
Svar #8

Utloggad Barry Hill

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Olle your research is fantastic.  Each piece of information is a treasure.  
 
I guess you don't need me to tell you there is a ton of information here thanks to the research.  I know researchers that dream of having a week like I have had this week.  Thank you for your continued interest and effort on my behalf.
 
I have ordered the two books and am very impatient for them to come.  I am now pouring over these posts to pick out details, separating them by family line (Alfred Carlsson Vs Selma Adamsson/Johnson).  To see it taking shape on paper is exciting.  I like to pencil it in, then I will use PAF (my standard) or maybe get roots magic or such.

2012-05-16, 21:42
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Utloggad Harriet Hogevik

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Hi Barry,
concerning the large hands - could this partly be an effct of both of them leaning backwards - with heads at longer distance from the camera? And maybe Carl August had burned his left hand in his work as a smith./Harriet

2012-05-17, 04:39
Svar #10

Utloggad Barry Hill

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I don't know Harriet, I don't want to take up a lot of energy on this topic but his left hand only has 3 fingers.  The thumbs are very disproportional. Could partly be lens or technique, genetics, injury ??? Nothing about the picture looks natural but the heads.  The clothes, shoes,(not even shown in this snap shot) all look almost like poor art work and without detail.  Maybe it is a process that faded easily.  But you can look at the hands a hundred times and walk away just confused as to what you are seeing.  No one that sees it has an answer so I don't expect one here from a little snap shot.

2012-05-17, 05:02
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Utloggad Harriet Hogevik

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Hi Barry,
in this forum there was earlier a discussion going on about pictures made of several parts. On a prepainted backround (or a standard background photo) heads of two or more people were added. For example we have seen such a group picture of all the children in a family - despite the fact that all children died early and they thus not lived at the same time. And if the heads are in different sizes it can look very odd.  
So this maybe is a picture ordered by Alfred who wanted to present his parents as a couple and only had two small pictures of their faces. This is only a hypothesis - is it possible to let us see the full picture - including the shoes? Is there any date or name of the photographer on the picture?
I think I see four fingers on the left hand and imagine the last hidden by something - part of an armchair?/Harriet
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av hkh 2012-05-17 07:50)

2012-05-17, 17:18
Svar #12

Utloggad Olle Elm

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Hi Barry,
Harriet has got interesting comments on the photos! I hope more people will look into this question.  
 
As you have seen above, the parish of birth was initially wrong on Johan Gabrielsson Carlbom. I think it´s similar on Adam Jonson - the father of Selma Elisabeth. In Slöta parish - Slöta AI:10 (1870-1880) Bild 183 / sid 176 - he is mentioned born in Sandhem, but I couldn´t find  him there.  I followed him backwards and found:
 

Hångsdala AI:3 (1836-1849) Bild 14 / sid 8
 
Later I will look in to this and see if he really was born in Härja . or somewhere els.
................................................
I found Adam born in Härja parish 19/12 1833!
Source: Härja C:3 (1787-1862) Bild 47 / sid 82
 
Vänligen,
Olle
 
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av smol 2012-05-17 21:58)
Vänligen,
Olle Elm

2012-05-17, 17:37
Svar #13

Utloggad Christina Backman

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Hi Barry! My great-uncle had a haircut, just like the one in your picture, in the 1850s.

2012-05-17, 23:05
Svar #14

Utloggad Barry Hill

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Olle,
 
That is the kind of thing that would take me a loooong time to track down.  I appreciate it so much.  My concern is that I don't want everyone to think I am a slug (lazy,...).  I have been the recipient of soo much help here.  I have ordered 2 books, installed a new genealogy program, read articles on Swedish names, and tried to tear myself away from the computer long enough mow half of my yard .   I just want everyone to know I am not just sitting here waiting to be spoon-fed.  I will put all of these links, sources, and training to good use.  I have to say I have developed a real emotional link to all of you who have been so kind and generous.
 
Harriet, I will see if I can post a better full version of that picture but I am not sure it will do justice to seeing the full size one, especially with the forums understandable file size limitation.  And by the way, August's left hand clearly has only 3 fingers and a thumb.  The thumbs comes out of the hand at the same level as his fingers, not from the side of the hand and they are longer than any I have seen in my 62 years.  Now if you really want to embarrass me just tell me that is what everyone's hands in Sweden look like  
 
Christina, you bring up a point that makes me want to estimate the year of this picture.  It is hard to guess their age but my guess is that they are much younger in this picture than I would first think.  Hard plain living and styles no doubt make them look older by our standards.
 
A footnote on Maria Lena's photo- I am horrified to say that a perfectly mannered dog had one one bad day in 15 years.  She was ignored for 3days while my wife was in the hospital and totally rearranged 2 rooms like a burglar had been there.  She only damaged one thing, that photo and the pewter frame it was in.  I was nauseated.  Never a hint of such behavior before or since.  She must have seen some  family resemblance to me and payed me back for ignoring her.  
 
Barry

2012-05-18, 04:49
Svar #15

Utloggad Barry Hill

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OK,  I decided I am transferring the wealth of data straight to my new Root magic 5 program.  It allows for great input of sources, alternate names, and I am also saving images of records right in the file.  You will probably think I am as dumb as a rock but as I transfer this data I see questions arising still.  Mostly about area names and what division they are (farm, parish, etc)  It is a lot of enjoyment building the data into a precise database that includes occupations, emigration dates, and so forth.
 
Hopefully you will continue to let me push your patience as I ask individuals about aspects of their past posts.  I want to understand exactly what I am putting into Roots Magic.
 
For now, time for bed.

2012-05-18, 06:04
Svar #16

Utloggad Harriet Hogevik

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Hi Barry,
I included the thumb in the number of fingers when counting - I also had in my mind the alternative of a hand in a turned position - the thumb situated on the mans left side hidden behind the armchair or whatever it is. But I am still wondering if the hands belong to the same person as the head - your grand grandfather.
 
Please go on asking in the forum and good luck with Roots Magic!
 
Kind regards from Harriet

2012-05-18, 21:30
Svar #17

Utloggad Barry Hill

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Well, I have been typing and cutting and pasting until an hour of mowing grass seemed like a rest.  I am back at it and actually hope I will be caught up before bed time.  Both of the reference books I ordered are supposed to arrive by Monday.
 
Does anyone know how long it typically took to travel from Sweden to a U.S. port in the 1880's /1890's ?  Also, was it typical that they stopped in England during the voyage.  If so, did the same ship usually continue or did they get on another ship in England?
 
Barry

2012-05-19, 00:35
Svar #18

Utloggad Laars Lövdahl

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Barry,
 
I guess you are interested to find today living relatives in Sweden. Just for fun I checked  
what happened with your gr-grandmother Selma Elizabeth Adamson/Johnson's family  
and siblings in Sweden. According to the information you already have got Selma's  
family lived at the farm Mossagården in Slöta parish when she emigrated to America 1889.  
 
Selma's older brother Klas Levín Adamsson born May 26, 1858 had already left the  
home  when Selma left. He had moved to Söderhamn parish 1885, where he married  
and had three children.
Signe Maria b. Apr. 3, 1886   -   d. 25/8 1918 Stockholm, married surname Eriksson.
Hilda Emilia b.  Aug. 15, 1887  - d. Nov. 24, 1989, Själevad, Unmarried.
Klas Bernhard b.  May 14, 1889 - d. Jan. 2, 1975, Västerås, Widower 21/6 1965.
In March 29, 1891 his wife Sigrid Amundsdotter died and Sept. 13, 1893 he moved  
further north to Själevad parish, where he married Maria Westman and they got five  
children.
Johan Oskar b. June 15, 1994 d. July 10, 1958, Bredestad, new surname Ringfors, married
Emmy Olivia b. July 29, 1895 d. May 4, 1965, Stockholm, Widow 1943, Surname as Married Ringström
Carl Edvard b. Dec. 16, 1896 who died Dec. 30, 1896
Elsa Olivia b. Oct. 4, 1898 who died Dec. 24, 1898
Gustaf Halvar b. Oct. 16, 1901 d. Apr. 1, 1974, Stockholm, Married 14/2 1931 and he had  
changed surname to Berkesten
/Själevad AIIa:4 (1896-1917) Bild 1850 / sid 975/
/Swedish death index 1901-2009/
 
Selma's older sister Amanda Augusta born July 31,1866 moved to other parishes 1885  
and worked as piga at different places. She returned home in Nov 1890 when her  
father was sick and he died in Nov 27,1890 of Lungsot=Tuberculosis, just the year after  
Selma had arrived to America. In Feb. the year after her father's death Amanda moved  
to Göteborg where she died of a heart desease (Pericarditis) March 19, 1893 only 26  
years old, without having children. /Göteborgs Kristine FIII:3 (1883-1894) Bild 182 / sid 178/
 
The younger sister Hilda Josefina born Nov. 9, 1874  died 1888 at an age of 13, due to  
scarlet fever, just a year before Selma went to America.
 
It must have been a great sorrow for Selma's mother Maja Lena to lose two daughters  
and her husband so close in time. Hopefully she could be happy for her daughter in  
America. Maja Lena died Feb. 6 1913 in Slöta parish. (Maja is proununced as Maya)
 
As you can see only Selma's brother Klas Levi´n had children and several of them were  
also married. Most likely some of them had children and grandchildren that probably  
may be alive today. You can find them by ordering the Estate Inventories after Klas's  
children's death at http://www.riksarkivet.se/default.aspx?id=17462.  
 
Good luck
Lars

2012-05-19, 02:33
Svar #19

Utloggad Barry Hill

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Laars,  The information you provided weaves a story so much more valuable than just names and dates.  Thank You.  While some of that information is probably contained in the posts above that I am pouring over and entering in Roots Magic, some of it is brand new.  I have not recognized any documents listing cause of death up to this point.  Do the references you listed above included the cause of death?  I would like to copy them when I can catch up here.  A helpful gentleman that reads the forum, emailed me the living relatives of the very line you identified (Klas Levi).  I have already drafted a letter but I still hesitate long enough to be certain. In addition to Selma Johnson listing her mother's name as Eliza on the marriage license (a problem I came to just accept), I was confronted again today with a conflict with emigration date.  Selma Johnson filled out a form in 1940 in which she listed her arrival in the U.S. as 12 April 1889 on the White Line. Selma Adamsson however is in the records as not emigrating from Sweden until 3 May 1989.  I also have a copy of the Utvandrat Kontrakt of Selma Adamsson and it states The journey takes place from Gotenburgth the 3/5 by steamer steerage...  This would mean the departure was 21 days after Selma Johnson said she arrived in New York.
 
I am interested in the members thoughts about this and how they resolve such issues.  While I do think these are one and the same person.  I feel I have to be able to make a strong case not only for genealogy reasons, but prior to contacting someone with a claim of being a long lost relative.  Although I know the final decision is my call, I really need some guidance here to base that decision on and resolve these issues.  There is no mention of ship name or White Line on the Kontrakt although I know it was probably the most common carrier line.

2012-05-19, 02:57
Svar #20

Utloggad Barry Hill

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Again so the issues are clear:
My Selma Elizabeth Johnson
Born: 27 Oct,1870 (source:1940 immigration registration),born abt 1870 (source: marriage License)
Father: Adam Johnson(source marriage license)
Mother: Eliza Johnson(source marriage license)
Arrived in New York 12 April 1889 (source: 1940 Alien Registration form)
Immediately settled in Clearfield, PA (Source: personal knowledge)
Born Yatenburg, Sweden, Slerta (source: 1940 alien registration)
 
Selma Elisabeth Adamsson
Born: 27 Oct,1870
Father: Adam Johnson
Mother: Maja (Maria)Lena Mattsdotter (Mattiasdotter)
Left Gotenburg 3 May 1889 (would have arrived in NY approx 18 May 1889)
Destined for Beech Creek approx 50 miles from Clearfield (Source: Kontrakt)
Born: Slöta, Skaraborgs, Västergötland
You can see by the info below this looks like her - same:Birth date, first and middle names, Adamsson and Johnson both from her father's name, similar immigration date, Fathers first name the same.
 
Also destination where Selma came to in Pennsylvania is only one county away from Beech Creek, PA which is listed below.

2012-05-19, 08:31
Svar #21

Utloggad Harriet Hogevik

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Hi Barry,
since centuries the priests in Sweden should register the cause of death (=dödsorsak) for everybody in the Död- och begravningsbok (= book of deaths and funerals) for the parish. From 1860 onwards there is also the SCB-utdrag which was a summary or rather almost a copy sent to the Central Statistical Bureau Sweden - which may be used as back-up in the cases there have been fires in the parish archives or if the handwriting in the Död -och begravningbok is difficult to read. The SCB-utdrag are published after 70 years, today the last year available is 1941.
 
However, the regulation that cause of death should be registered does not mean that it is always known or correct. The realibility of the cause of death depends on time (century), the priest, which disease and many other things. The most reliable causes are accidents and deaths related to delivery. For example, if the book states slagen av en häst (=hit by a horse) as in my family tree (Lyse June 16, 1853) I think this is an information good enough for a family historian. However, if this had happen some fifty years later in a big city as Göteborg or Malmö the cause of death could have been in latin: fractura os temporale cum hemorrhagia cerebri /and also in swedish: skallfraktur med hjärnblödning = frature of one of the bones in the head and bleedings in the brain. And the horse given as an addendum or explanation.
 
When Karl August Magnusson b Apr 25, 1837 died Feb 25, 1922 the priest noted paralysis cordis + marasmus senilis and the doctor gives only marasmus senilis as the cause of death. Paralysis cordis = arrest of the heart, marasmus senilis = weakening due to age. (SCB-utdrag Lyse, 1922)
 
When Britta Stina Magnusson b. Mattsdotter Oct 10, 1840 died Feb 19, 1923 the priest noted hjärnblödning and the doctor noted hemorrhagia cerebri ( = stroke in swedish and latin, respectively).(SCB-utdrag Lyse 1923)
 
You are welcome with more questions about interpretations and translations of causes of death, especially before 1930, as you start reading the Död- och begravingsböcker.
Regards Harriet

2012-05-19, 22:36
Svar #22

Utloggad Olle Elm

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Hi Barry,
Just want to show two pictures from Slätten in Lysekil I found on Bohusläns museum.

The year 1899; Hjalmar Carlsson med hunden Kerry nedanför Slätten. = Hjalmar Carlsson with the dog Kerry below Slätten.
 

Lysekil. Zigenarlägret på Slätten. 1898. = Lysekil. The gypsy camp on Slätten 1898.
 
Just to give you an even better idea of what it looked like.
Regards from,
Olle
 
Meddelandet ändrat av smol 2012-05-19 22:38
Vänligen,
Olle Elm

2012-05-19, 22:50
Svar #23

Utloggad Barry Hill

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Thanks Olle,  I unexpectedly just received one of my books, Your Swedish Roots.  I can't put it down but I also don't want to stop transferring the posted information into Roots Magic.  Sleep, chores, paying bills, is all becoming such a nuisance

2012-05-19, 23:01
Svar #24

Utloggad Olle Elm

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If you want to take a break and look for pictures by yourself, here is the link:
 
http://www.vastarvet.se/kulturvast_templates/Kultur_ArticlePageWide.aspx?id=5990 1
 
For example: Where it says Söktext... ; Type Slöta, Härja, or whatever parish you want, in the west part of Sweden, and you will see a lot of nice pictures.
/Olle
Vänligen,
Olle Elm

2012-05-20, 08:44
Svar #25

Utloggad Harriet Hogevik

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Hi Barry,
when you use the link given by Olle above and search for Lyse you also find a lot of equipment for candles and so on. The word lyse = light
 
There is a picture of a smiths workplace: BM_UMFA53278_332 and another including the home of the smith: BM_UMFA53278_331
BM stands for Bohusläns museum, I place you definitely should visit if you come to Sweden. It is situated in Uddevalla.
 
And of course all of us want you to go on with life including sleep and paying bills.
Today is nice weather in West Sweden, aple trees crowded by flowers.
Kind regards Harriet

2012-05-20, 21:05
Svar #26

Utloggad Carl Wolf

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Hi Barry, one word of caution about Your Swedish Roots and Cradled in Sweden, both were written before Arkiv Digital was available and also before GenLine was assimilated by Ancestry.com, so you should keep that in mind when they refer to available web resources for doing research.  Incidentally, Arkiv Digital is having a summer special now of $41 for a subscription that lasts through August 25th.  http://www.arkivdigital.net/products/adonline/subscriptions
 
One thought about the name of Selma's mother on her marriage record, I wonder if maybe she said Elina which is a variant of Lena, and the person filling out the marriage license misheard and thought it was Eliza?

2012-05-20, 21:25
Svar #27

Utloggad Harriet Hogevik

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Hi Barry, to sort out the question about the name of Selmas mother, I think the best way would be to order the bouppteckning made after the death of Selmas father Nov 27, 1890. In that document both Selma, probably with an US address and the widow with a full name must be written./Harriet

2012-05-20, 23:16
Svar #28

Utloggad Barry Hill

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Carl & Harriet thanks for the responses.  I was just short of 6 yrs old when my G-Grandmother Selma died.  My living sister is 6 years older than me so has a better memory of Selma and we are both of the impression that she could answer questions in English but even then would use some Swedish words and was not prone to insert herself into English conversations.  I am not sure she ever learned to read English.  That was the status as we saw it in the 1950's.  I have no clue how she communicated with the person filling out the form in 1891 unless there was an interpreter there. So I have to look at some of that information as suspect.  I think that is why a record in the 40's shows her birth as Yatenberg, Slota.  I think she spoke and someone without a clue wrote what they thought was close to what she said.  In the case of her marriage license, maybe she even furnished her middle name because she misunderstood the question. Also Carl's explanation is one I had not thought of. Her parent's estate record is being ordered.
 
Carl, Even though the copyright is 2004 Your Swedish Roots does mention ArkivDigital and talks quite a bit about Genline.  I have made it to page 60.  I want to do a quick read then go back and use it for reference. When Cradled in Sweden comes I will probably just give it a glance over for reference value for now.
 
Question: Do any of the church records or police emigration records contain actual signatures?  I look at U.S. records with names written in cursive writing and I think some may be signatures because they seem to be in different writing than the rest of the document.  It might at least be interesting to compare signatures.,
 
Others would likely know better than me, but I think it is quite a stretch to say 2 Selma Elizabeth's both with the same birth date and both with a father named Adam Jonsson emigrated within weeks of each other to central Pennsylvania which was not even a big center of Swedish immigrants. It is also supported by the fact that no other Selma Elizabeth is found on lists during that time.  Unless some unlikely, significant piece of documentation shows up, I think it is clear.  
 
I will be mailing 2 letters to two 3rd cousins tomorrow   Wish me luck that they will be interested enough to respond.

2012-05-20, 23:20
Svar #29

Utloggad Barry Hill

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PS: Correction.  Her 1940's form listed her birth as Yatenberg, Slerta which furthr proves the point I was making.

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