Äldre inlägg (arkiv) till 14 maj, 2012

[Carl Wolf]

This might be his arrival in New York, this man travelled from Göteborg.
 
New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 about John A Karlson
Name:    John A Karlson
Arrival Date:    15 Jun 1885
Birth Year:    abt 1866
Age:    19
Gender:    Male
Ethnicity/Race-
/Nationality:    Swedish
Place of Origin:    Sweden
Port of Departure:    Liverpool, England and Queenstown, Ireland
Destination:    United States of America
Port of Arrival:    New York
Port Arrival State:    New York
Port Arrival Country:    United States
Ship Name:    Adriatic

[Barry Hill]

What can I say, you people are utterly astonishing. I am seriously overwhelmed with the way all of you have rallied to help a total stranger. Tomorrow is mothers day in the U.S.  If I do not leave to get my dear wife a gift I may be visiting my ancestors in person.   I will be back in a hour or so and begin to absorb this avalanche of information. I am so glad I set out 2 days ago and decided once and for all I would make a final effort to find these people.  Never did I guess it would go like this. If you are any example of Sweden it makes me want to come and visit my roots.
 
Bless you all.

[Leif Lundkvist]

Hi Barry,
 
This is the record from Bäfve Bäve AI:7 1861-1867 Bild 32 / sid 26:
 

 
and the birth records Bäve C:2 1861-1870 Bild 17:
 

 
and Bäve C:2 1861-1870 Bild 42:
 

 
Note that for Johan Alfred the father is named Petersson August, which is obviosly an error, as the father is Karl August Magnusson!
 
Leif

[Bengt Isacsson]

I have not participated in this discussion Barry but I just want to say that you gave me todays laugh.
   - thanks a lot.

[Leif Lundkvist]

and here is the family in Raknebo in Bäfve 1867-1875 (Bäve AI:8 (1868-1879) Bild 169 / sid 165)
 

 
where Johan Anton dies 1869.
 
Leif

[Leif Lundkvist]

Barry, you still have to verify where Johan Alfred became Alfred Wilhelm...
 
Leif

[Barry Hill]

Olle Kandell asked So Barry: How is the arrival date you have mentioned verified? (meaning for Alfred Carlson)
 
Olle, in 1890 Alfred Carlson signed a Declaration of Intent (to become a U.S. citizen  I Alfred Carlson a citizen of Sweden having arrived at the port of New York state of NY on or about the 17th day of June  A.D. 1885.  The 5 looks somewhat like a 3.
 
Either Alfred filled in his name, Sweden , name of port, and date of arrival.  If his signature was any indication, he was quite literate as the signature is impressive so I figue he filled out the form.

[Harriet Hogevik]

Hi Barry,
in the postings above from (Bäfve)Bäve is noted Inhyses or Inh för short in front of the fathers name. This means they rented the place they were living.
In the record from Lyse is noted eg (short for eger/äger = owning) in front of Antons name - probably added after the death of the father 1922.
Probably Karl August Magnusson bought the part of land needed to build the house at Höjden from the owner of the farm Träleberg. Träleberg is a farm or rather a group of farms, still in the rural part of Lyse, about 2000-3000 m from Höjden. For example around 1850 the area Slätten was used for the sheep of several farms located with their main buildning at a distant. I will go backward in the records from Lyse to find when the family became owners of this place, maybe they moved around renting first. The stonecutting industry needed not only a lot of stonecutters but also good smiths.
Some of the old houses at Slätten are gone (for example for buildning a hospital and so on ) but many still exist with people living there.
So Barry, maybe you should add a trip to Sweden to the gift for your wife?!
I guess you want to find living relatives but even if you don´t it could be interesting to see the places.
If so I would like to show you Lyse, Lysekil and tell more about the stone cutting industry in the area. The places Bäve and Väne- Ryr is within about one hours distance by car from Lyse/Lysekil.
Bäve is part of the town Uddevalla today.
Regards Harriet
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av hkh 2012-05-13 07:58)

[Harriet Hogevik]

Hi Barry,
concerning the date of arrival for Alfred Carlsson. Which were the rules for application for US citizenship in the year 1890? Five years in the US or seven? /Harriet

[Harriet Hogevik]

Hi Barry,
the family moved to Höjden no 4 in 1910. They came from another house at Höjden owned by a stone cutting company the Svensk Tyska Granitaktiebolaget. There is more info about the family earlier - but maybe you want to do that searching by youself? / Harriet
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av hkh 2012-05-13 14:35)

[Barry Hill]

Harriet, I have no shortage of research to do so I appreciate the help.  Especially with the language barrier and not understanding Swedish name and record systems very well. However:
 
Notice to all: I started my Great Grandparents lines first (35 years ago)since my Great Grandmother was the only Great Grandparent I ever actually knew and I hit a brick wall at arrival in New York.  Back then my documentation was not what it should have been and I am now scrambling to find the source for Alfred's birth date.  Since he died almost 40 years before Selma my mother never even knew him. The date or even age is not on any of his papers including marriage certificate, citizenship papers etc. I do have a marriage license coming maybe it will have one. Something is not right here with this Johan Alfred so I am confused because all the rest seems to fit.  Please do not invest too much time until I try to get his birth date documented.  I am digging through large files and hope to have something very soon.

[Olle Elm]

Hi Barry,  
You have mentioned letters above. I wonder if you would be able to scan the letters and let us see them.  
If you have any problems to get them into this forum, I will try to help. If you scan in good quality, I will make it fit into this forum with its limits.  
My email address is in my profile.  
Kind regards from,  
Olle
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av smol 2012-05-13 18:39)

[Olle Elm]

While waiting for more information it´s perhaps interesting to see what the souroundings of Lysekil looked like. Here is a photo from Slätten which Harriet mentions above.  

 
As you can see; The stonecutters have already been here  
Kind regards from,
Olle
[color=808080]who had a grandfather from the south of Sweden, who during a period worked as a stonecutter also in Lysekil[/color]
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av smol 2012-05-13 18:58)

[Harriet Hogevik]

Hi,
the picture has Landsvägsgatan (the road to Lyse - and any other place on land) in the middle, Slätten is the left and middle part of the picture. In the right part of the picture we see the railway, which started June 15, 1913 (and became electrified 1950). The area with the railway is called Vadet. Höjden is at or outside the upper left margin of the picture. Lysekil is behind the photographer and the part between Landsvägsgatan and the sea. Estimated time 1915-1920.
Today the harbor has been built out, the town has grown and there is more vegetation on the hills than 100 years ago.
Has someone followed the sister Alma Ottilia, born 29 april 1870 Bäve?
She does not move from Väne-Ryr to Lyse with the rest of the family. I use SVAR (www.svar.ra.se)and have no access to moving out records for Väne-Ryr before 1888. I can´t find Alma in Sweden in census 1890 or 1900 - but according to letter from 1919 she is alive? Could she possibly also be in US? Or maybe she just changed names...
I earlier noted that the younger sister Hulda Axelina born 18 jan 1881 get certificate for marriage 1906 and leaves the family at Höjden.
The brother Amandus Theodor b 9 jan 1876 leaves the family for marriage 1897.
(Församlingsböcker Lyse, flyttlängder Lyse o Väne-Ryr & Osborn Olsson: Lysekils Järnväg, Stångenäs Hembygdsförening, 1999)
Regards Harriet
P.S. I now sit behind the hill in the right upper margin of the picture
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av hkh 2012-05-13 18:46)
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av hkh 2012-05-13 19:27)
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av hkh 2012-05-13 19:50)

[Barry Hill]

Ok,  The photo of the area touched me to see the soil where the walked and lived (assuming it is them
 
This is where I am in research. It is not pretty!
 
I cannot find my source for Alfred's birth date of Jun 1862. No U.S. document I have found has his birth date on it.  To make matters worse, the June 1900 census  gives his age as 31 with that crossed out and the age 30 written in.  That would mean he was born in 1869 one year before his wife. Worse yet, the May 1910 census has his age as 45 (birth month is not part of that census) that would mean he was born in 1865 and that has him as 3 years older than his wife.  His wife's age of 42 on the 1910 census is clearly wrong since I have her birth date written on forms by her hand or the hand of a family member while she was alive. That leaves me with a range from 1862 - 1869 which is just one more proof of the inaccuracy of the U.S. census reports.
 
One other foot note,  I have a large was portrait of Selma' Johnson's parents and a small damaged photo of Alfred Carlson's mother as i have been told by my mother and m great uncle (Son of Alfred & Selma).
 
Now I will attempt a scan of the letter but the original is not readily available so I am not sure how good a scan of a copy will be. Its worth a try.

[Barry Hill]

My attempt to post half of the Anton Magnusson/C.A.Magnusson letter to Alfred Wilhelm Carlson

[Barry Hill]

Flip side of letter and envelope  Could the C. A. Magnusson stand for Carl August Magnusson? And can anyone read this.  I was told it may be mixed Scandinavian language rather than true Swedish writing but I did get a translation from the lady that told me that.

[Leif Lundkvist]

Barry,
 
Johan Alfred was born 1865, Sept 14, in agreement with the 1910 census. But the age difference can be even 20 years, so that is of no proof.
 
Leif

[Harriet Hogevik]

Hi  Barry,
the letter is written in Swedish. I can´t read it all but for example : Har du dina pojkar hemma eller är de inte i kriget...  (Do you have your boys at home or aren´t they at war ....?)/ Harriet

[Olle Elm]

Hi Barry,
The letters are possible to read. The letter at the top is probably complete - dated 23/12 1915 - but 1915 comes probably from another hand.
The second letter is probably not complete. I guess we only see one side.
The person who has written the first letter is surely a sibling to Alfred Carlsson.
Now I have to go to my work.
Somebody will translate during the day - I suppose  
Kind regards from,
Olle Elm

[Barry Hill]

These images are two sides of the same letter and two sides of the same envelope, so there is only one letter.  
 
As a point of interest, I thought the letter was sent in late December 1918 and Albert froze to death February 1st 1919 so he may never have answered the letter before he was dead.  It seems he may have been drunk walking home through a field late at night and sit down under a tree never to get up again. That was my Grandmother's side of the story. I am sure autopsies were never done back then. Her brother's side was a little different but he was prone to defend drinking

[Olle Elm]

Ok Barry,
I suppose there are two envelopes?
Is there a date on the stamp?
(sent from my Iphone)

[Laars Lövdahl]

Hi Barry,
I am almost 100% sure that it is the right family that has been found in Sweden. In the second letter you posted, the person writing the letter says that Alma's eldest son died 26 years old of Spanish flu. I have followed Alma and her family in the church records and her eldest son´s name is Erik Arthur Wahlén born 25/12 1892, Lysekil. He becomes a sailor and Oct. 10 1918 he dies of Influenza, probably the Spanish flu. Göteborgs Oscar Fredrik F:7 (1915-1921) Bild 138 / sid 133
 
Lars

[Barry Hill]

Ollie, there is one envelope that goes with this single page letter. both sides of the page are written on.  If you have a program such as a photo view that can zoom in and enlarge the image you can see a circle or postmark partly on the stamp and on the envelope but I cannot read a date or any other part of the mark.  It is just too faint or faded.  
 
Maybe the content of the letter will help date it (war etc) if you think the date at top is not part of the letter. I found the letter in the attic of Selma's house where her son still lived alone as a 90 year old.  The date was on the letter when I found it.  Soon after I sealed it in plastic.

[Olle Elm]

Barry,
Just a comment on the envelope;


 
When I look at the pictures above, I think I see one envelope with a triangleflipside with the name C. A. Magnusson Höjden nr? 4 Lysekil, and one flip of another form flip with rounded corners with  the namne Anton Magnusson Höjden No 4 Lysekil.
I can bee wrong - but it is very strange with an envelope with two senders.
 
Meddelandet ändrat av smol 2012-05-14 13:47

[Olle Elm]

A part of the Anton Magnusson-envelope rotated.
Kind regards,
Olle

[Olle Elm]

Hi all of you,
I will try to read the letter in Swedish ang hope you will help to get it all right. I hope someone will try and translate. I start with the side I call A.

 
(Letter dated - Lysekil den 23/12  (1915) - ej bokstavstroget avskrivet.)  
 
Käre Broder
Jag får fatta pennan i hand
och skriva några rader till
dig för 3 dje gången och se om
dessa rader kan träffa dig
och om ni är levande eller
 döda Vi har hälsan alle
sammans utom mamma som
aldrig är frisk Ja våra gamla
föräldrar är gamla nu mamma
är 79 och pappa är 82 men han
är frisk och kry som en pojk
men han har ju inget att göra
eller har gjort något på 4 år
Men det är ingen som har haft
och har så mycke ?? som
 
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av smol 2012-05-14 14:13)

[Olle Kandell]

I found this in Census 1910 (at Ancestry) for Snow Shoe, Centre Co, PA (Pennsylvania > Centre > Snow Shoe > Distrikt 0036 > 24)  
- a connection to the Alfred C on the envelope ? The year of birth is 1865 and origin Sweden (also the wife).
 
Barry: Are the names of children listed in this family, some you have seen before in your research ?
(I think this interesting as maybe a verification that we are dealing with right person. Also this Salma = Selma ?)
 
 

 
I will now have a break for a week (a trip to Cyprus)... I hope I'll get hold of an Internet connection - interesting to follow this thread...
 
Sinc.
Olle K

[Olle Elm]

Very nice material from you Olle K. ! I continue trying to read the letter:
 

 
de gamle som jag har haft
och har men så fattigt och dåligt
som vi har det kan jag ?? ??
skriva för ett stenhuggeri ligg [ er]
nere och har legat nere i 3 år
jag har lite arbete på ett  
bygge här hemma men blir det
hård vinter så blir det nedlagt
om du kunde hjälpa de gamle med
en  daller än ?? men du har
väl nog av dig själv men du må
tro att jag har allt att dragas med
så länge de lever Har du dina
pojkar hemma eller är de ute
i kriget nu hörs det ut som  
det skulle vara slut på det
?? Jag får tala om att

[Olle Elm]

 
Alma har mistat sin äldste son
han dog av en sjukdom som kallas
för Spanska sjukan här han var 26 år gammal han låg sjuk i
3 dagar han hade varit gift
I endast 3 veckor han har en  
liten pojk efter sig? han hade
varit i Amerika 6 gånger han
var sjöman då Alma säger att
hon vet inte vad hon skall taga
sig till Ja det skulle vara
roligt att få leva och se om
dessa ledsamma tider kunde
gå över så att vi kunde ha
en riktig bit bröd och
litet mera till utan ?
så du kan aldrig tro vad
sorgligt här
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av smol 2012-05-14 19:04)