Jansson (Nilsdotter?), Hanna Emilia. Married in England 1912

[Vinnie Rørbye]

Hi  
 
I hope someone will be able to help as I seem to be hitting a brick wall now.
 
I'm looking to trace any relatives of a Hanna Emilia, unfortunately I know very little about her so I know it's a big ask. However what I do know is that she got married here in England in February 1912 to a  Mr Marsh, before that she is was listed on the 1911 census in England but not in the 1901 census, which leads me to conclude that she most have arrived in those 10 years between census.  
 
On her marriage certificate she is noted as being 29 years old her name is Hanna Emilia Janson and her father is noted as being Nils Janson (deceased) a farmer. She is also listed as 29 years of age on the 1911 census which should make her born around 1882 +/- a year or 2.
 
As patronimic surnames were still in play in Sweden in around her time of brith I'm thinking that her surname may be Nilsson or Nilsdotter. I also think that Janson would most likely have been spelt Jansson. In the census her middle name is spelt Emelia.
 
I look forward to hearing from anyone how may be able to help me with this quest.
 
Thank you in advance.
 
Vinnie

[John Bentley]

Hi
 
I would place the birth year at quite likely 1882 without the +/- tolerance, given the marriage to George E Marsh was February and the census was on 2nd April of the respective years.   And using the spellings of Hanna and Emilia as you suggest, the following household comes up in the Swedish 1890 census as being Jansson with a Hanna Emilia.  Hanna, Emilia and Jansson together make it possible to narrow the search considerably.  Jansson is not as common as Jonsson, Jönsson, Johansson etc and while Nils is the grandfather, the fit otherwise is most interesting.  
 
Jansson, Nils   1828 Father
Olsd:r, Stina   1829 Mother
Nils Johan   1870 Child
 
Jansson, Jöns   1858 Father
Nilsd:r, Maria Stina   1864 Mother
Hanna Emilia   1882 Child
Johan Teodor   1885 Child
Nils Oskar   1888 Child
 
Magnuss, Johan Magnus   1873
 
Johan Magnus Magnusson is probably the farmhand.
 
Since Jöns Jansson is listed as måg (son in law), Maria Stina Nilsdotter would then be the daughter of Nils Jansson, Torpare (farmer) listed top. Quite curious to have two male Janssons in the household who are not directly blood related !
 
The family is at  
1 S:a Wästrottna
Gräsmark (Värmlands län, Värmland)
 
This could be a wild shot, but it gets you started.
 
John

[Lasse Waldemarsson]

Sorry, thats not the right Hanna.
Here she is from SD5
with her husband  
 
18821118-648
Östberg f. Hagkvist, Hanna Emilia
Järnvägsg 12
Sunne
Dead 1/6/1967.
Registered in Sunne, Sunne kn (Värmlands län, Värmland).
Born 11/18/1882 in Gräsmark (Värmlands län, Värmland).
Widow (2/3/1964).
--------------
Parish of birth in the records:
Gräsmark (Värmland)
Source records:
DB, FS / DOR 67 / RFV 69
 
18760915-623
Östberg, Gustaf Alfred
Smeden 1
Dead 2/4/1964.
Registered in Sunne, Sunne kn (Värmlands län, Värmland).
Born 9/15/1876 in Gräsmark (Värmlands län, Värmland).
Married man (1/6/1902).
--------------
Parish of birth in the records:
Gräsmark (Värmland)
Source records:
DB, FS / DOR 64
 
here they are, before they moved to Sunne
on the same page as her father  
Jöns Jansson Hagqvist
Gräsmarks kyrkoarkiv, Församlingsböcker, SE/VA/13165/A II/2 (1900-1909), bildid: 00041918_00092
 
Lasse

[John Bentley]

Hi
 
Lasse has of course eliminated that Hanna Emilia (she married and died in Sweden), but facing the challenge, I used the child search facility in the 1890 census using *anna Emilia and Nils J*nsson for all possible birth dates.  (The * allows Johanna, Hanna and Anna, and Jansson, Jonsson and Jönsson and some other variants.)
 
The list of possible children is now very small, and the following covers them as far as I can see.
 
Adelina Johanna Emilia b. 1883 i Lönneberga (Kalmar län. Smaland)
Father Nils August Johansson,  Mjölnare (Miller)
 
Anna Emilia b. 1882 i Söderhamn (Gävleborgs län, Hälsingland)
Father Nils Jonsson, Sågare (Sawyer)
 
Anna Emilia b. 1883 i Bäckebo (Kalmar län, Småland)
Father Nils Peter Johansson, Torpare
 
Johanna Emilia b. 1882 i Laxarby (Älvsborgs län, Dalsland)
Father Nils Johansson, Torpare (Crofter)
 
Johanna Emilia b. 1883 i Fämebo (Värmlands län, Värmland)
Father Nils Romanus Jansson, Jordbruksarb. (Farmworker)
 
I rather fancy the very last on the list, and I have not found her death record in Sweden in SDB5.  But it now requires some kind person to check the household registers (Församlingsböker) to see whether perhaps the last 3 above are recorded as marrying, emigrating or any other possibility.  This should be possible since most of these registers exist to well after your Hanna Emilia married in England.  I do not have a copy of the 1900 Swedish census to check.  
 
Whew !  Best of luck !
 
John
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av Johnb 2011-07-13 17:36)

[Lasse Waldemarsson]

Sorry again,
the last one, Johanna Emilia Nilsdotter Roman born 1883-09-22
get married 1908 with this guy.
 
18821212-713
Ekenberg, Joel Alexius Emanuel
Kansliet 10, Åsg 36.
Dead 12/18/1952.
Registered in Falu Kristine, Faluns kn (Kopparbergs län, Dalarna).
Born 12/12/1882 in Falu Kristine (Kopparbergs län, Dalarna).
Widower (12/20/1946).
--------------
Corresponding parish(es) as of Jan 1, 2010:
Falu Kristine, Faluns kn (Dalarnas län, Dalarna)
Parish of birth in the records:
Falu Kristine (Kopparberg)
Source records:
DA / DOR 52-60
 
From Begravda i Sverige
 
1882--
Ekenberg, Joel
f. 1882
Död 1952
Begravd 11/6 1953
Falu Norslunds kyrkogård, kv. I, nr. 76 (urna)
Graven upplåten i evärdlig tid
 
and his wife
 
1883--
Ekenberg, Johanna
f. 1883
Död 1946
Begravd 27/12 1946
Falu Norslunds kyrkogård, kv. I, nr. 76 (urna)
Graven upplåten i evärdlig tid
 
Lasse

[John Bentley]

  But all is not lost, it quite possible that Johansson could have become Janson in England.  We still have 2 families with fathers who were farmers which is an important clue !
 
John

[Lasse Waldemarsson]

Johanna Emilia from Laxarby emigrates 1897-07-04 to America.
If she got all the way I dont know.
most Emigrants from Sweden went via England.
A brother and a sister went to America a few years before her. So I leave her as a ouestion mark.
 
Laxarby kyrkoarkiv, Församlingsböcker, SE/GLA/13319/A II a/1 (1896-1904), bildid: 00083421_00152
 
Lasse

[Lasse Waldemarsson]

Adelina Johanna Emilia from Lönneberga born 1883-07-23 still lives in Vena 1900
Neither SVAR or Genline has any books later than that.
Another question mark.
Vena kyrkoarkiv, Husförhörslängder, SE/VALA/00410/A I/29 (1891-1900), bildid: A0009443_00043
Cant find her as dead in SD5
 
Lasse
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av lassew 2011-07-13 20:58)
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av lassew 2011-07-13 20:59)

[John Bentley]

Hi
 
From the Ellis Island site, Johanna E. Johanson aged 15, arrived 18 Sept 1897, via Southampton, travelling as a servant, last place in Sweden Nydala.  The E has been partly added to to appear as Emi then possibly ll.  This sounds rather like the Johanna Emilia that Lasse reports above.  
 
Have we still some options left ?
 
John

[Lasse Waldemarsson]

Anna Emilia born in Söderhamn 1882-06-15
get married 1904 with Johan Sigfrid Sundman
128.103.6900,  [Västernorrland, Gävleborg]  Ljusdal,  AIIa.1f, Församlingsbok, 1896 - 1907, 2058-0,  Bild 67 av 316
 
Her she is, and her husband
 
18820615-7508
Sundman, Anna Emilia
Hällgården
825 00  Iggesund
Dead 4/26/1979.
Registered (1977) in Njutånger, Hudiksvalls kn (Gävleborgs län, Hälsingland). Registered for taxation (1977) in the same parish.
Born 6/15/1882 in Söderhamn (Gävleborgs län, Hälsingland).
Widow (3/26/1931).
--------------
Corresponding parish(es) as of Jan 1, 2010:
Enånger-Njutånger, Hudiksvalls kn (Gävleborgs län, Hälsingland)
Parish of birth in the records:
Söderhamn (Gävleborg)
Source records:
RTB 79 / SPAR 80
 
18760921
Sundman, Johan Sigfrid
Iggesund
Dead 3/26/1931.
Registered in Njutånger (Gävleborgs län, Hälsingland).
Born 9/21/1876 in Njutånger (Gävleborgs län, Hälsingland).
Married man (10/8/1904).
--------------
Corresponding parish(es) as of Jan 1, 2010:
Enånger-Njutånger, Hudiksvalls kn (Gävleborgs län, Hälsingland)
Parish of birth in the records:
Njutånger (Gävleborg)
Source records:
SCB
 
Lasse

[Lasse Waldemarsson]

the last of Johns findings.
Anna Emilia born 23 of november 1883 in Bäckebo Kalmar län
she married Ernst Wilhelm Karlsson in Bäckebo in 1910
Statistiska Centralbyrån (SCB) - samlingspost, Utdrag ur födelse-, vigsel- och dödböcker 1860-1949, SE/RA/420401/01/H 1 AA/1588 (1910), bildid: A0030830_00717
 
from SD5
 
18821211-2919
Karlsson, Ernst Vilhelm
Å Församlingen Skriven
(Address as of Nov 1, 1970)
Dead 7/20/1971.
Registered in Bäckebo, Nybro kn (Kalmar län, Småland). Registered for taxation in the same parish.
Born 12/11/1882 in Bäckebo (Kalmar län, Småland).
Married man (12/20/1910).
--------------
Parish of birth in the records:
Bäckebo (Kalmar)
Source records:
AK, MTL 71 / RTB 71 / MTL 71 / RTB 71 / UTD 71d
 
18831123-2907
Karlsson, Anna Emilia
(No address)
Dead 12/9/1975.
Registered (1971) in Bäckebo, Nybro kn (Kalmar län, Småland). Registered for taxation (1971) in the same parish.
Born 11/23/1883 in Bäckebo (Kalmar län, Småland).
Widow (7/20/1971).
--------------
Parish of birth in the records:
Bäckebo (Kalmar)
Source records:
RTB 76
 
Lasse

[Lasse Waldemarsson]

So, now we need some help from those who have access to databases in USA or England.
this Johanna Emilia
Johanna Emilia b. 1882 i Laxarby (Älvsborgs län, Dalsland)  
Father Nils Johansson, Torpare (Crofter)  
 
She emigrates 4/7 1897  
did she really arrive in USA or perhaps got stuck in England and married to Mr Marsch in 1912.
Or, does Vinnie have some more clues to this Hanna Emilia?
 
Lasse

[Vinnie Rørbye]

Hi John and Lasse
 
Thanks you so much for all your sugestions I'll see what I may be able to find here. I wonder if she could have use Nilsson or Nilsdotter as her surname?
 
I unfortunately haven't got anymore clues as Hanna Emilia's death certificate did give anything other than her date of death being 2nd February 1966 and age 83 and her name is spelt Hanna Emelia this time.
 
Does the spelling of her name have a huge influence on the outcome of searches?
 
I don't know if there are many options left in this now?
 
Thanks you for all your help and I still hopeful that I can find her!
 
Vinnie

[John Bentley]

Hi
 
I guess both of us saw this as a challenge, and the principal option remaining in my view is a search of the 1900 census which I dont have so someone else must do it. The following reflects thoughts from my own personal searching.
 
To explain naming a bit more (and if anyone wants to slant what follows, feel free).  1890 was right at the end of the time when daughters like Hanna Emilia would automatically have been Nilsdotter, which she most likely would have been for her first years anyway.  But by 1900, families were increasingly dropping -dotter names for daughters and further, children often then took the same surname as the father, so just as your posting initially put, very likely all of the family became Jansson (with 2 s's).  As an aside, families from that time increasingly took advantage of the freedom to choose a fresh family name, sometimes associated with the farm they lived, but all sorts of reasons could affect the choice of new name.  So searching in Sweden on first names and place and date of birth from then become the surest means of identification, though many, especially older families and older folk still chose to keep traditional names.
 
So to Hanna Emilia.  If you look at American immigrants the name changes there could be quite extreme, sometimes starting from how the Castle Gardens/Ellis Island officer wrote down the name from how the immigrant pronounced it.  But remember that almost all Swedes could read and write so she would know how her name was written.  Hanna and Emilia are proper Swedish names, just Jansson becoming Janson being likely, and in England she was probably in control of what she was called.  That you have Janson indicates she took her fathers name.  And lastly, Hanna is common but Emilia much less so.  Jansson is much less common than the other variants around son-of-Jons/Jöns/Johan, Johannes and more.
 
Then why did I search variants of the names ?  The priests word was law in naming matters; and in earlier years mistakes (transcription errors) in name and dates could and did creep in and then were perpetuated.  And while later annual registers were much more consistent, it did still happen that errors were made.  Janssons I looked up were also Jonssons in earlier years.  Johannessons became shortened to Johansson and then even to Jonsson.  Censuses were assembled from data transcribed from parish registers allowing real errors to creep in.  And some normalising of names as above may have occured.
 
So in summary, to me, the data to search on remains with minor variants allowed for, Hanna Emilia Jansson, born probably 1882/3, father Nils Jansson, farmer.  And importantly with both Hanna and Emilia found together and probably in that order, and we have already seen that the 1890 search on those parameters give quite a short and handleable list.
 
My last comment.  Sometimes though people definitely existed they got missed from one census but appear on another.  Happily the important censuses for you, 1890 and 1900 exist and are complete.  1890 was the best bet, and I just might have missed her.  But 1900 is still very worth trying, though she is old enough then to possibly to have gone to work on another farm nearby.  1910 only exists in part on SVAR but she was likely in England then.  Anyway, over to someone else.
 
Regards and good luck, John

[Vinnie Rørbye]

Hi  
 
I have found a Hanna Jansen in the 1901 census for England - She is however born around 1880 in Sweden. I'm pretty sure she is the same Hanna as the one in the 1911 census.  
 
Does this now mean we can widen the search for Hanna Emilia?
 
Thanks  
Vinnie

[John Bentley]

Hi
 
I have now following Vinnies last post re-checked the first UK 1911 census and a very clearly written Hanna Emilia Janson is living in Hampshire as a servant aged 29.  This makes her born between April 1881 and April 1882.  And I have found yet another but hopefully THE Hanna Emilia as below in the 1890 census, though father not Nils and a shoemaker, not farmer, but with his own house. (Which was possibly a smallholding ie he grew crops for the family ?)  I feel rather embarrassed at not finding and including her previously.  The 1901 Hanna Jansen might be someone different, and I have messaged Vinnie separately.
 
Place of residence Söpple, Stavnäs, Värmland
 
Jansson, Johan 1851 Born 1851 Värmskog, Värmland. Hemmanseg, Skomakare  (Homeowner, shoemaker)
Larsdotter, Anna Kajsa Born 1855 Stavnäs, Värmland  
Hilda Maria Born 1878 Stavnäs  
Hanna Emilia Born 1881 Gillberga  
Emma Born 1884 Gillberga  
Karl Born 1887 Stavnäs  
Gustaf Born 1890 Stavnäs  
--------------------
Jansson, Karl Born 1858 Värmskog, Värmland Skomakare, Brother of Johan, Widower  
 
Perhaps we now ask Lasse if he could work his magic again  and check ?
 
John
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av Johnb 2011-07-19 18:26)
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av Johnb 2011-07-19 18:27)
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av Johnb 2011-07-19 18:36)

[Lasse Waldemarsson]

I will be back  
 
Lasse

[Lasse Waldemarsson]

Sorry again.
 
This Hanna Emilia born 1881-01-08 in Gillberga died 1899-10-11 Stavnäs, Söpple according both to hfl
Stavnäs kyrkoarkiv, Församlingsböcker, SE/VA/13499/A II a/1 (1896-1900), bildid: 00053740_00556
and dead/burialbook  
Stavnäs kyrkoarkiv, Död- och begravningsböcker, SE/VA/13499/F I/3 (1895-1930), bildid: 00053768_00031
 
Lasse

[Lasse Waldemarsson]

I am still trying to find someone in the 1900 census.
With all kinds of variation of spelling and born between 1880-1884
 
Lasse

[Lasse Waldemarsson]

This one is also a question mark.
However wrong name for the father.
 
Post 962902
Hanna Emilia
f. 1882-09-19 i Kärda (Jönköpings län, Småland)
d.
Flicka, barn i familjen
Torp. Nyebro
Kärda (Jönköpings län, Småland)
Födelseort i källan: Ka förs.
 
her father
 
Post 962899
Jonasson, Johan August
jordtorpare
f. 1848 i Kärda (Jönköpings län, Småland)
Gift man, far i familjen
Torp. Nyebro
Kärda (Jönköpings län, Småland)
Födelseort i källan: Ka förs.
 
she emigrates to Amerika 1903-08-03
Kärda kyrkoarkiv, Församlingsböcker. Bunden serie, SE/VALA/00207/A II a/1 (1898-1907), bildid: 00003221_00029
 
and so did her sister Emma Kristina in 1893
 
A man, Johan August Grönberg emigrates the same date as Hanna Emilia. So they probably went together, perhaps even as a pair.
Kärda kyrkoarkiv, Inflyttningslängder, SE/VALA/00207/B I/4 (1895-1912), bildid: 00003227_00026
No, I dont think they went as a pair, Johan August is born in 1832.
 
So, with the wrong name on her father and not quite wright surnamne, this Hanna is not a perfect match
 
Lasse

[Lasse Waldemarsson]

Another Hanna Emelie
No father stated when she is born 1881-09-29 i Väsby
100012.143.19600,  [Malmöhus]  _SCB Malmöhus,  .717, Födde, 1881 - 1881, 0-0,  Bild 120 av 618
Her mothers name was Amanda Ernberg
She became a fosterchild with her mothers sister, Emma Cecilia Ernberg, who moved to the smal island of Ven just outside of Landskrona in Skåne.
This Hanna emigrates to America in may of 1896.
Sankt Ibbs kyrkoarkiv, Husförhörslängder, SE/LLA/13327/A I/13 (1891-1901), bildid: C0066795_00078
 
Lasse

[Lasse Waldemarsson]

Yet another
Hanna Emilia Gustava born in Högsby 1882-09-28
father Johan Peter Svensson
100008.85.47500,  [Kalmar]  _SCB Kalmar,  .741, Födde,Vigsel,Död, 1882 - 1882, 0-0,  Bild 159 av 346
she emigrates to America 1902 in august.
Bäckebo kyrkoarkiv, Församlingsböcker. Bunden serie, SE/VALA/00052/A II a/2 (1900-1916), bildid: 00004963_00214
 
Lasse

[Vinnie Rørbye]

Hi Guys
 
Thanks again for all yours help...... maybe her year of birth isn't 1882, maybe I need to widen my search with 5 years either side....!
 
Vinnie

[Moderator USA]

Transferred from topic Discussions in English/Emigrants