Nord, Carl Johan b1863-1864 Sweden. Parents ?

[Colleen Heather]

Could someone please assist with a lookup of a Household Examination   1861   1865
for Bjälbo, Östergötland and advise if Frans Nord is listed as a Schoolmaster.
 
If this is correct this will be my family and enable further investigation.
 
My Great Grandfather named Carl Johan Nord born in 1863 or 1864 had Father = Frans Nord and Mother = Anna Lovisa Jonasdotter Jarl. Frans Nord is listed as a School Master on Carl Johan's Australian Naturalisatioon Certificate when aged 30 yrs dated August 1894. He stated on this that he was born in Stockholm.
 
Appreciate any assistance as searching 14 yrs for this person until this haystack needle appeared.
 
Regards,
 
Colleen Heather

[Christina Skagerborg]

Colleen,  
I don't think the schoolmaster is a relation of yours. In the household examination for Bjälbo 1861-65 his name is Carl Johan Hoflund born 1822 in Helgona and he's not married to an Anna Lovisa Jonasdotter.
 
When did your great grandfather emigrate? Did his parents stay in Sweden? I tried to look them up in the census from 1880 but couldn't find them. Do you know of any siblings or do you have the birth years for his parents?
 
Christina

[Mats Ahlgren]

On a page from Rötter
 
Ort:  Stora Måla  
Källa:  Småland, Björkö, Födelsebok C:4  
År:  1863  
Fynd:  Björkö födelsebok C:4  
1863-07-15, Carl Johan  
Fadern: Grenadieren Frans Nord  
Modern: Anna Lovisa Jonasdotter Jarl  
Stora Måla, Myresjö sn

[Mats Ahlgren]

The family is found i Household Examination (hfl)  Myresjö 1861-1865 where Frans Anders Nord is Grenadier number 84
Source Myresjö AI:12 (1861-1865) Bild 184 / sid 182 (AID: v21108.b184.s182, NAD: SE/VALA/00255)
 
In the next Hfl it is written that the family moves to Lemnhult in 1866
Myresjö AI:13 (1866-1871) Bild 197 / sid 187 (AID: v21109.b197.s187, NAD: SE/VALA/00255)
 
Haven't found the family in Lemnhult (yet)
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av mats 2011-01-30 16:59)

[Mats Ahlgren]

Found them i Fagerhult Östergård, where the father is Grenadier number 62
 
Source:  Lemnhult AI:14 (1866-1870) Bild 85 / sid 76 (AID: v20928.b85.s76, NAD: SE/VALA/00217)
 
Source: Lemnhult AI:15 (1871-1875) Bild 87 / sid 77 (AID: v20929.b87.s77, NAD: SE/VALA/00217)
 
Source: Lemnhult AI:16 (1876-1880) Bild 93 / sid 84 (AID: v20930.b93.s84, NAD: SE/VALA/00217)
 
Karl Johan moves to Näshult in 1881
Lemnhult AI:17 (1881-1885) Bild 91 / sid 83 (AID: v20931.b91.s83, NAD: SE/VALA/00217)
 
And is found in Näshult, and he moves to Lemnhult in 1884
Näshult AI:19 (1881-1885) Bild 182 / sid 173 (AID: v21330.b182.s173, NAD: SE/VALA/00281)
 
Haven't found him in Lemnhult (yet)

[Mats Ahlgren]

This is Frans Nord from Swedish Death index 1901-2009
 
18271129
Nord, Frans
Fagerhults Östregård
Dead 9/19/1914.
Registered in Lemnhult (Jönköpings län, Småland).
Born 11/29/1827 (no place of birth)
Man.
--------------
Corresponding parish(es) as of Jan 1, 2010:
Korsberga, Vetlanda kn (Jönköpings län, Småland)
Source records:
DB
 
 
Anna Lovisa Jonasdotter died februari 12 1899 according to hfl  
Lemnhult AIIa:1 (1898-1908) Bild 950 / sid 83 (AID: v171231.b950.s83, NAD: SE/VALA/00217)

[Chris Bingefors]

That fits well, Mats (Great job!). Old soldiers often worked as school masters in the country when a trained teacher was hard to find. They were able to read and write quite well.

[Mats Ahlgren]

Found Carl Johan in Lemnhult, working as farmhand in Borshult Sjöholm, he is moving to Nye in 1885
Source Lemnhult AI:17 (1881-1885) Bild 159 / sid 151 (AID: v20931.b159.s151, NAD: SE/VALA/00217)
 
Found in Nye, he is now Grenadier and living alone in Ramnäs Västergård no 47
Source Nye AI:13 (1880-1886) Bild 217 / sid 206 (AID: v21239.b217.s206, NAD: SE/VALA/00277)
 
He moves to Näshult in september 1894, the month after he has signed a document in Australia
Nye AI:14 (1887-1894) Bild 205 / sid 189 (AID: v21241.b205.s189, NAD: SE/VALA/00277)
 
and is found in Swedish Death Index
 
18630715-243
Nord, Karl Johan
Lillhagen, Lemnhult 1:7
Dead 4/29/1949.
Registered in Lemnhult (Jönköpings län, Småland).
Born 7/15/1863 in Björkö (Jönköpings län, Småland).
Widower (3/29/1926).
--------------
Corresponding parish(es) as of Jan 1, 2010:
Korsberga, Vetlanda kn (Jönköpings län, Småland)
Parish of birth in the records:
Björkö (Jönköping)
Source records:
DB, MTL
 
So, all this just show us that I have followed the wrong person, or does this raise another question,  who is the man in Australia??
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av mats 2011-01-30 19:55)

[Chris Bingefors]

Strange, very strange! Has someone taken his name and credentials? Does he have a brother who disappears?

[Colleen Heather]

My G Grandfathers name on his Australian Naturalisation Certificate dated 1894 is actually John Norden aged 30 yrs and being a native of Stockholm Sweden. On his Australian death certificate his Father is detailed as Franz (s) being a schoolmaster and his Mother as Anna and neither emigrated to my knowledge. John (Johan)Carl arrived in Australia in 1886.
 
I thought he may have been known as Nord hence my initial question after finding information regarding Frans/Anna as parents of Carl Johan in the right date range.
 
As I have no idea of his parish I remain at a loss how to investigate further after 14 yrs of searching.  
 
Appreciate your efforts greatly and any further advice or information you may be able to offer. Colleen

[Arne Granquist]

Colleen
Rather early I found this guy as a candidate for Your Carl Johan. I hesitated, too many
deviating data.  
In light of Your last messsage I think I should give this one a chance.
 
GID 2610.1.10800,  [Gotland]  Bäl,  AI:6B, Husförhör, 1875 - 1894, p2,  Bild 7 av 80    
 
 
Bäl is a parish in Gotland county-  Gotland an island on the eastcoast
 
David Frans Nordin, klockare  born 9 sept 1835 Bäl
klockare is a parish clerk and organist. He could also serve as a teacher for at least the younger pupils.
 
Anna Greta Johansdotter  wife  born 19 dec 1835 Bro Gotland
married 12 Sept 1861
son Carl Johan Dominicus  born 21 Dec 1861 Bäl
dau Hilma Margareta 6 Jan 1864 Bäl
dau Emma Josefina 22 Aug 1869.
 
No note on Carl Johan that he moves out in this period (1875-1894), but on the other hand
these records are supposed to be reconstructed as the original were destroyed. An exeample of problem. In the 1890 census David Frans is living with a new wife. If Anna died it should be noted in this record.
I cant find this Carl Johan in 1890 census, 1900 census, emigration records or deathrecords.
 
I suggest You put a new querry under Bäl parish Gotland county, perhaps someone with local
knowledge can give more info
 
Arne

[Chris Bingefors]

One way of trying to assert that this family is the right one is to send for the estate inventories for tha mother and father. They should list the son and any knowledge of his whereabouts at the time

[Maud Svensson]

C.J.D. Nordin b. 1861 in Bäl was a sailor and a cook. The archives of Visby sjömanshus may have more information.
 
Register: Visby sjömanshus:
 
Namn:  E.J.D. Nordin (should be C.J.D.)
Födelsedatum  1861- -  
Födelseförsamling  Bäl  
Hemförsamling:  Bäl  
Civilstånd:  Ogift  
Inskrivningsnummer:  321B  
Hyra / lön:  11 Kr  
Befattning / Yrke:  Kock  
Påmönstrad:  1880-03-02 i Visby  
Avmönstrad:  1880-10-21 i Visby  
Fartyg:    
Namn:  Retzia (Skonert)  
Hemmahamn:  Visby  
Registerton:  119,43  
Fartygets redare / ägare:  Carl Stenberg  
Kapten:  L.J. Sandqvist  
Sjömanshus:  Visby sjömanshus  
Volym:  DIII:25 s. 25  
 
Namn:  C.J.D. Nordin  
Födelsedatum  1861- -  
Födelseförsamling  Bäl  
Hemförsamling:  Bäl  
Civilstånd:  Ogift  
Inskrivningsnummer:  321B  
Hyra / lön:  20 Kr  
Befattning / Yrke:  Kock  
Påmönstrad:  1880-10-22 i Visby  
Avmönstrad:  1880-11-12 i Visby  
Fartyg:    
Namn:  Maria (Jakt)  
Hemmahamn:  Visby  
Registerton:  45,99  
Fartygets redare / ägare:  Axel Ekman  
Kapten:  A.G.A. Schultz  
Sjömanshus:  Visby sjömanshus  
Volym:  DIII:25 s. 40  
 
Namn:  C.J.D. Nordin  
Födelsedatum  1861- -  
Födelseförsamling  Bäl  
Hemförsamling:  Bäl  
Civilstånd:  Ogift  
Inskrivningsnummer:  321B  
Hyra / lön:  16 Kr  
Befattning / Yrke:  Jungman  
Påmönstrad:  1881-05-04 i Visby  
Avmönstrad:  1881-10-19 i Visby  
Fartyg:    
Namn:  Retzia (Skonert)  
Hemmahamn:  Visby  
Registerton:  119,43  
Fartygets redare / ägare:  Carl Stenberg  
Kapten:  L.J. Sandqvist  
Sjömanshus:  Visby sjömanshus  
Volym:  DIII:25 s. 115
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av mausve 2011-01-31 21:38)

[Colleen Heather]

Thank you all as this Carl Johan Dominicus from Gotland does look promising and I'll certainly post a new query on Bäl parish Gotland county, look into the Visby Archives and estate inventories of the Mother and Father.
 
Appreciate any link or address to obtain the estate inventories.
 
Coincidentally my Carl Johan's third name was Dominic so looks even more promising.
 
It's my intention to visit my G Grandfathers homeland in the near future.
   
Colleen

[Chris Bingefors]

To obtain estate inventories the best way is to find out when they died (ask under Bäl parish) and then contact
forskarservice.vila[alpha]riksarkivet.se
That is the regional archive for Gotland. The first page is enough, that gives the names of all those entitled to inherit (primarily children and their descendants)

[Daniel Abrahamsson]

Colleen
Do you know if Carl John Nord,Norden,Nordin,Nordh went back to Sweden later in life?
If he did he should be listed in the UK outbound passenger lists 1890-1960 as well in the
swedish records.
To my swedish friends: I have looked at SVAR Summariska folkmängdsredogörelser 1886 for the city of
Stockholm.They show all immigrants and emigrants in a parish.There are some people emigrating to
Australia from Maria,Katarina,Klara and so on but no one that match.
Daniel

[Daniel Abrahamsson]

Colleen
Anna Greta Johansdotter   died 6 Aug 1879 in Bäl,Gotland
David Frans Nordin        died 16 Nov 1902 in Bäl,Gotland
David later married another woman;Johanna Carolina Söderström born 1844 Hangvar,Gotland
Daniel

[Colleen Heather]

Thank you Chris for the advice on estate inventories as I had no idea where to start for these.
Daniel he died in Australia in 1909 and had never returned to Sweden.
 
Hopefully I can confirm Carl Johan is my ancestor through the estate inventories if he is listed.(Fingers crossed)  
 
Colleen

[Moderator USA]

Transfered from Discussions in English/Emigrants