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Författare Ämne: Christopher Wilhelm Elies 1774-1851 Stockholm - Jockis  (läst 3006 gånger)

2022-07-08, 13:42
läst 3006 gånger

Utloggad Pasi Tuominen

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My 6th GGF Christopher Wilhelm Elies appears in Jockis Klädesfabrik, Finland about 1800-1802.
There is no mention in any book place of birth or where from he is.

In Stockholm I found same name, birthday and Klädesfabrik worker too.
I don't have found Stockholm utflyttande and either Jockis inflyttande at this era.
But I am quite sure that has to be same person.

Christopher Wilhelm Elies, 18.10.1774.
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0055767_00209
Katarina kyrkoarkiv, Födelse- och dopböcker över äkta barn, SE/SSA/0009/C II/5 (1763-1778), bildid: C0055767_00209

Parents Johan Christopher Elies and Maria (Brunberg)
Katarina kyrkoarkiv, Lysnings- och vigselböcker, SE/SSA/0009/E I/4 (1763-1780), bildid: C0055788_00117
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0055788_00117


I found this Tax document too.
Överståthållarämbetet för uppbördsärenden, Kronotaxeringslängder, SE/SSA/0031/06/G 1 AA/145 (1795), bildid: A0060379_00568
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0060379_00568

That is all what I have found in Sweden.
If anyone can help me to find any documents about
Christopher and his parents, that would be great.




2022-07-08, 16:27
Svar #1

Utloggad Kalle Birgersson

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According to a house exam done in 1786 Johan Christopher Hindric Elies died in march 27 that year, leaving a widow Maria Brunberg and a son, 12 years old, Johan Christopher Elies. No other children though. Johan Christopher had his uncle Wilhelm Elies as a warden. The now dead man was not just working at a clothing factory, but he owned it. I can't find this hous exam (bouppteckning) at Riksarkivet but Arkiv Digital has it at Stockholms rådhusrätt 1:a avdelning, F1A:286, page 340.   
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v222925?page=340

2022-07-08, 17:09
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Utloggad Staffan Bergh

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Justitiekollegium 1637-1856, Förmyndarkammaren 1667-1924, Rådhusrättens 1:a avdelning 1850-1924, Bouppteckningar, SE/SSA/0145A/F 1/F 1 A/286 (1786), bildid: C0107767_00361.

Above the journeyman cloth weaver Christopher Wilhelm in the tax record is the cloth manufacturers widow "Maria Eljes Conqurs", Maria Eljes bankruptcy. 

The estate ended up in debt, explaining why the widow is bancrupt. 

WIth the help of the excellent indexes the Stockholm City Archive has I've also found that Maria Brunberg is the daughter of Zakris B (skeppstimmerman, "ship carpenter"), d 1778-10-03 and Maria Åhman, d 1777-09-05, both in Katarina[1, 2].
 
---

[1] Stockholms rådhusrätt 1:a avdelning (A, AB) D1A:26 (1776-1800) Bild 240 / Sida 638 (AID: v480763.b240.s639, NAD: SE/SSA/0145a
[2] Stockholms rådhusrätt 1:a avdelning (A, AB) F1A:249 (1778) Bild 9070 / Sida 862 (AID: v222865.b9070.s862, NAD: SE/SSA/0145a
mvh /staffan -- BFiles

2022-07-08, 20:41
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Utloggad Pasi Tuominen

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Thank you both with these!

Here is Johan Christopher dead:
Katarina kyrkoarkiv, Död- och begravningsböcker, SE/SSA/0009/F I/6 (1784-1804), bildid: C0055807_00035, sida 48
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0055807_00035

Is it possible they have wrong child name in house exam?
Cristopher Wilhelm has been 12 years old just then.

2022-07-08, 20:56
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Utloggad Staffan Bergh

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Yes, it's possible, or even probable, the writer of the estate inventory (house exam) got the name of the son wrong. Easy mistake to make ...
mvh /staffan -- BFiles

2022-07-09, 11:09
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Utloggad Pasi Tuominen

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More tax record about Johan Cristopher:

Överståthållarämbetet för uppbördsärenden, Kronotaxeringslängder, SE/SSA/0031/06/G 1 AA/121 (1786), bildid: A0060355_00697
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0060355_00697

Överståthållarämbetet för uppbördsärenden, Kronotaxeringslängder, SE/SSA/0031/06/G 1 AA/119 (1785), bildid: A0060353_00427
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0060353_00427

Överståthållarämbetet för uppbördsärenden, Kronotaxeringslängder, SE/SSA/0031/06/G 1 AA/113 (1783), bildid: A0060347_00675
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0060347_00675

I found murmästare och arkitekt Johan Wilhelm Elies in wikipedia. D 24.9.1789
May be he can be a relative...

Hard to find more documents...






2022-07-09, 11:32
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Utloggad Staffan Bergh

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Citera
I found murmästare och arkitekt Johan Wilhelm Elies in wikipedia. D 24.9.1789

That's Christopher Wilhelms uncle, Johan Christophers brother, that is mentioned on the estate inventory as a guardian. The Wikipedia text has his birthdate wrong, he was born in 1739 (acc. to his death notice, 1789-09-24 in Maria[1]). There's a estate inventory after him, too[2, 3].

PS ... fixed the Wikipedia article ...

--

[1] Maria Magdalena (A, AB) FI:4 (1789-1803) Bild 27 (AID: v88303.b27, NAD: SE/SSA/0012)
[2] Stockholms rådhusrätt 1:a avdelning (A, AB) D1A:26 (1776-1800) Bild 2100 / Sida 1011 (AID: v480763.b2100.s1011, NAD: SE/SSA/0145a)
[3] Stockholms rådhusrätt 1:a avdelning (A, AB) F1A:299 (1790) Bild 4770 / Sida 469 (AID: v222937.b4770.s469, NAD: SE/SSA/0145a)
mvh /staffan -- BFiles

2022-07-09, 11:57
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Utloggad Pasi Tuominen

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Thank you!

Is it any way to find where from Johan Wilhelm and Johan Christopher Elies came to Stockholm?

2022-07-10, 09:58
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Utloggad Pasi Tuominen

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https://tidningar.kb.se/2979645/1798-03-01/edition/145134/part/1/page/4/
Posttidningar1798-03-01

I tried to find from newspapers too, many news about conqurs but not else, that is last.
There was address Qvarteret  Tegelflagaren Falkenbergsgatan 67.
I check Katarina kyrkoarkivet 1799-1800 but not found her there. May be she has move out.
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0055653_00086


I haven't found any hits after that about Maria Elies. I check Jockis too, but seems she has not been there with her son.


2022-07-10, 11:56
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The notice in Posttidningar 1798 is about an auction where "Maria Elies borgenärer", her creditors, are selling out the property at Falkenbergsgatan. She would have lost that in the bankruptcy. It does not mean she is alive. 

Acc to FamilySearch[1] a widow Maria Brunberg died 1796-04-18 somewhere in Stockholm, of approx. the right age. It may be her, but I haven't found the original death notice. There's no estate inventory after her. 

Re: where the brothers Elies came from -- the earliest trace I've found is of Johan Wilhelm Henrik Elias (sic!) as a journeyman ("gesäll") in 1765[2]. No reliable evidence of anyone older with the same name. Johan Wilhelm the architect was a master in the masons guild, "Murmestare embetet", which apparently still is going strong -- it may be they have more information in their archives. Mail them and ask? https://www.murmestare.se/

Some observations that may help (or not, as it were ... treat them as speculation ;) ):
* none of the brothers are members of the German congregation i Stockholm, and they marry very Swedish-sounding girls (women: Brunberg and Hedengran). To me this suggests they may have been Swedish, or from Finland.
* they must have been educated/gone to school, which suggests their father was a rich farmer or maybe someone attached to the church (sexton, organist, teacher, if not outright priest).
* both brothers are named Johan <something> Henrik, maybe the two grandfathers were named Johan and Henrik.
* I've seen other examples of siblings moving up the society ladder where they all have taken a common family name, so maybe that is what happened here ...
 
---

[1] https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FK22-JPF 
[2] Överståthållarämbetet för uppbördsärenden, Kronotaxeringslängder, SE/SSA/0031/06/G 1 AA/70 (1765), bildid: A0061139_00362 
mvh /staffan -- BFiles

2022-07-10, 13:02
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Utloggad Kalle Birgersson

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Johan Christopher Elies has got a strange signature, not like anyone else. Is it just his own idéa, or is this how you write your initials in some part of the world, like Finland or Germany? It may be a clue to where he came from.
 
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0055793_00292#?c=&m=&s=&cv=291&xywh=1939%2C8%2C5303%2C3306
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v224981?image=2840

2022-07-10, 13:21
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Utloggad Pasi Tuominen

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I think it´s a his brothers signature. Or they both has same kind of signature...
https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Wilhelm_Henric_Elies

Same signature is in Zacharias Brunbergs estate inventory.

Justitiekollegium 1637-1856, Förmyndarkammaren 1667-1924, Rådhusrättens 1:a avdelning 1850-1924, Bouppteckningar, SE/SSA/0145A/F 1/F 1 A/249 (1778), bildid: C0107730_00917
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0107730_00917

I haven´t seen like that never before.



2022-07-10, 15:07
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Utloggad Kalle Birgersson

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You are right, it is his brothers, I should have noticed. But still, they probably came from the same place and that signature is so rare that they even show it at wikipedia. And the first line goes "Elies belonged to a group of contractors of german descent, who came to Stockholm in the 1600s and 1700s." So even if Staffans argument is good, the brothers might be from Germany.

2022-07-10, 16:55
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Utloggad Staffan Bergh

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The quote from Wikipedia has no source, so take it with a grain of salt ... That said, the person who wrote the text appears to be knowledgeable on the subject -- he's a  Swedish architect of German descent, himself ;)
mvh /staffan -- BFiles

2022-07-10, 22:41
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Utloggad Pasi Tuominen

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Great thoughts, both of you.

I sent mail to Murmästare Embetet, let's see what they answer...

I think brothers are not from Finland, there is not be a surnames in that era, only soldiernames what used as a surname.
But not found Elies here. And signature is so artificial, here in Finland mostly in this time was "bomärket".  ;)

I tried to find with Family Search in Germany, many hits with Elies surname but not these brothers.
I think they were Swedish or from Germany.












2022-07-12, 18:56
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Utloggad Pasi Tuominen

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Quite interesting...
Johan Christopher Elies, Klädesfabriquer, died in Katarina, Stockholm 1786.

His son Cristopher came to Finland, Jockis Klädesfabrik ab. 1800-1801.

His daughter's Gustafvas daughter Olivia married Karl Henrik Petterson, who came to Finland,
Jockis Klädesfabrik from Norrköping 1841.

Their son, Gustaf Adolf Pettersson (my grandmother's grandfather) was "arbetsledaren" in Åbo Klädesfabrik.
He died 1933, buried in St Katarina's graveyard, Turku Åbo.

My great grandparents has worked in clothing factories "Klädesfabrik" over 150 years.

2022-07-15, 09:48
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Utloggad Karin Uhrvik

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Murmästaren Johan Wilhelm Hindrich Elis, born in Magdeburg, acquired burghership in Stockholm 1769-01-03 according to Handelskollegiets protokoll.
Only in "Läsesal" at Riksarkivet, but available at Arkiv Digital.

Handelskollegiet (A, AB) AI:120 (1769) Bild 50 / sid 1 (AID: v950730.b50.s1, NAD: SE/SSA/0147)

2022-07-15, 18:46
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Utloggad Pasi Tuominen

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Thanks a lot, Karin.

It seems brothers really are from Germany as thought.

Family Search found Elies surname in Magdeburg.
I hope I could find something from Magdeburg.

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