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Författare Ämne: Need help with soldier information on early 1700's tax records at Vänneböke Södergård, Hinneryd parish  (läst 1041 gånger)

2021-08-26, 23:46
läst 1041 gånger

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Attached are four tax records (1704, 1705, 1707, 1715) showing the soldier Nils' wife.  I'm trying to find out more about the soldier Nils Svensson but I don't find him listed in Centrala Soldatregistret under his patronymic name.  It looks like he was a soldier on horseback but I am not sure what the first part of these listings say or where I could begin looking for him.  The 1715 tax record looks a little different from the 1705 and 1707 records.  What is the difference between these records? 

There is an unmarried Rytt Nils there in 1702.  Nils Svensson died there in 1723 but was listed in the tax records through that time, so it appears he was a soldier at the time of his death, although his death appears unrelated to him military service. Since there are no patronymic names listed I am not sure if every Nils is the same man.

Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Kronobergs län 1642-1820 (G) 46 (1704) Image 880 / Page 2133
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840170?image=880&page=2133
v840170.b880.s2133

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-47-1705-Image-930-Page-1725
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840171?image=930&page=1723                                                                           
v840171.b930.s1725

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-49-1707-Image-1690-Page-1909
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840173?image=1690&page=1909                                                                       ​
v840173.b1690.s1909

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-50-1715-Image-1530-Page-2045
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840174?image=1530&page=2043 v840174.b1530.s2045 
​v840174.b1530.s2045

Any help would be very much appreciated,

Thank you,

Vicki

2021-08-27, 00:44
Svar #1

Utloggad Klas Wallén

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Hi!

Nils was a ryttare / horseman as you suspected. I think he might have been in a so called femmännings regiment because it says 5tling and 5ling in the margin, but I am not fully sure. Some other "ryttare" is listed as 3ling or 5ling which strengthen my idea. I my self have an ancestor who was in such a regiment but he is not noted as 5tling or 3ling but femmänning, which makes me a little confused but I think it must mean the same.

In Sweden during the Great Nordic war they created some temporary infantry and cavalry regiments. If three "rotar" of farmers together payed for one of the soldiers in such regiment it was called tremänningsregemente and if five "rotar" of farmers payed for one additional soldier/horseman in such regiment it was called femmäningsregemente. Such Horsemen from Småland was probably first in the Skånska tremänninsregementet till häst but later came to join Upplands femmänningsregemente till häst around 1705. Perhaps your Nils can be found there?

Regards

Klas

2021-08-27, 00:48
Svar #2

Utloggad Klas Wallén

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2021-08-27, 00:52
Svar #3

Utloggad Klas Wallén

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Sorry for writing several answers but I seem to be unable to edit in the first two ones. I just wanted to clarify that it was three or five so called rotar with farmers that payed for a soldier in the temporary regiments. A rote consisted of two- three whole "hemman". A hemman was originally a whole farm but later the farms were often split into smaller units 1/2, 1/4 and so on. Often two whole such hemman became a rote.

Hope I have not confused you and sorry if I explained something you already knew :-)

Klas



2021-08-27, 02:57
Svar #6

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you Klas and Lennart!  You have both been very helpful!  You've given me a lot to look into and I really appreciate it. 

Nils Svensson was a soldier in 1706, as he is named in a court case that year.  His wife is listed as "the soldier's wife" in that court case - she was representing him - but I have no idea how long he was in military service.  He was born circa 1666, so if he left in 1707, it makes more sense than if he was still in service in 1723 when he was 57 years old.

I'll take a look at everything you've sent and see if I can find any more clues.

Again, I appreciate your help,

Vicki

2021-08-29, 23:28
Svar #7

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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After looking at the information, I have a few more questions:

Nils Svensson had a son name Nils Nilsson (1694-1755) who was also lived at Vänneböke Sodergård in Hinneryd.  He was a soldier from 1718 - 1728.  His name was Nils Nilsson Wennerberg, Kronobergs regemente, rote: Vänneböke, Södra Sunnerbo Kompani, Hinneryd Parish. 

Both Nils Nilsson and his father (Nils Svensson) are listed in the 1717-1723 household records at Vänneböke Sodergård in Hinneryd.  Nils Svensson is not listed as a soldier at that time, so that fits with his leaving the military in 1707.  The son Nils Nilsson is listed with his soldier name of Wennerberg. This explains why there was still a soldier Nils/wife listed in the Vänneböke Södergård tax records after 1707, they are two different men.

Hinneryd (G) AI:1 (1717-1723) Image 95 / Page 89
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18565?image=95
v18565.b95.s89

I have another question about the 1715 tax record.  What is the circled word?  If Nils Svensson left in 1707 and his son didn't begin his service until 1718 - I'm not sure how this tax record fits in, unless this refers to a Nils that is no longer in the military.  (Hope my question is clear). 

Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Kronobergs län 1642-1820 (G) 50 (1715) Image 1530 / Page 2045
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840174?image=1530&page=2043
v840174.b1530.s2045

The document that Klas sent was very interesting in explaining why these were created and the roles they played:

Citera
Both four- and five-männing regiments were established in 1702. In four-männing regiments 4 "rotar" togeter provided an extra soldier and in five-männing regiments 5 "rotar" together provided an extra soldier. This was of course beside their duty to provide the ordinary soldier of the "rote".The five-männing regiments were established in the provinces where the ordinary provincial regiment was serving in war zones. The four-männing regiments were established in the few provinces where the ordinary provincial regiment still was quartered at home.

And the information in particular regarding Småland:

Citera
Småland Three and Five "Männing" Regiments (Smålands tre- och femmännings-regementen) became the base for His Majesty's Enlisted Regiment (Konungens eget värvade regemente).
I would like to learn more about that also.

With that in mind, it seems likely to me that the Nils Svensson that Lennart found could well be the Nils Svensson I'm looking for.  To make sure I'm understanding the information correctly, I have a couple additional questions about those military records:

1706:  His soldier name appears to be Hultman - is this correct?  Also there is a note which I think says that he is sick - is that correct?
Rullor 1620-1723, SE/KrA/0022/1706/4 (1706)
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0054588_00038#?c=&m=&s=&cv=37&xywh=1451%2C1269%2C4159%2C1994

1707: The year he was dismissed from service.  Can you anyone help me with the translation of the note?  Is there more than that he was being dismissed?
Rullor 1620-1723, SE/KrA/0022/1707/1 (1707)
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0054595_00105#?c=&m=&s=&cv=104&xywh=2742%2C1724%2C3149%2C1509

Thank you again for all the help with this!  It is very interesting!  I haven't come across the temporary units in the past.  Any additional information would be most welcome!

Vicki


2021-08-30, 18:11
Svar #8

Utloggad Klas Wallén

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Hi Victoria!

I will see if I can find another link to a site with information about the männing-regements, but I think there must be a lot more on Hans Högmans site. It is one of the best sites when it comes to military activities.

You are right the son is listed as soldier with the name Nils Wänneberg (in the yellow circle).

Nils Svensson Hulltman (on other pages Hultman) was listed as siuk wich is the same as sjuk in modern Swedish and sick in English.

When it comes to the word before sold: (soldier) I think it says forlammad. Förlamad is the Swedish modern word for paralyzed. Perhaps he was wounded and to some extent or fully paralyzed, and therefor could not continue as a soldier? It may explain why just one person is listed for paying tax. But I think it is another expression for the soldiers status because so many soldiers and horsemen are listed as forlammad/förlämmad. They were very poor though as can be seen in the margin "utfattige".

I must also ask you why you thought your Nils was a horseman? If he was I do not think the Nils Svensson at nr 22 is the right one because he was in the infantry in the Smålands femmäningsregemente till fots (on foot) and seems to be a soldier not a horseman. On the next page 2046 you can see a Ryttare /Horseman Nils wife who is also förlämmad and very poor.
In Swedish we would say ryttare for the horseman and soldat for the soldier. If some one was a soldier on a sailing ship we would say båtsman.

Regards

Klas

2021-08-30, 20:12
Svar #9

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you so much for responding, Klas!

First, I think I had the wrong place name for the 1702 record I referenced in my first post - please see attached - I had difficulty with the handwriting but now believe I have the correct 1702 tax record.  However, it is a very confusing record as I'm not sure what all relates to Nils.  Will you take a look?

In the 1704 tax record I thought the word rytt appeared before Nils on the tax record.  Please see attached. 

Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Kronobergs län 1642-1820 (G) 46 (1704) Image 880 / Page 2133
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840170?image=880&page=2133
v840170.b880.s2133

Same for 1705 tax record ... please see attached.

Maybe I am misunderstanding that word on those tax records?  It does not have that word on the 1707 tax record.

I also made the assumption that the Småland regiment was cavalry only because it was under the main heading of 9. Temporary Units - Cavalry.  :)

So, I may easily be wrong in my assumptions!  I have very limited military knowledge, so don't worry whether you are telling me something I already know!   Most likely I don't know. :)

Thanks again for your continued help with this, I look forward to your response!

Vicki


2021-09-09, 13:31
Svar #10

Utloggad Klas Wallén

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Hi Victoria!

No one else seems to have given you the help you ask for so I will try and do my best though I am not fully sure about everything. I think you should take a picture of some of the words and ask questions about it under the topic "Läshjälp" and ask what it says. There are some very good readers there. I have not seen the kind of abbreviation my self and not the full word that many people in Hinneryd have before their names.

I can help you with some things, for example it says Vänaböökes sg (södergård) at:
Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Kronobergs län 1642-1820 (G) 46 (1704) Bild: 880 Sida: 2133, so it is the same place of what I understand. Oh I now saw that you had another link but there it says Vänaböket Södergård too :-) It must be the same place

Also it might be short for Ryttare as you think (marked in blue) but I am not fully sure there so ask that question under Läshjälp to be sure, if you will not see an explanation coming here after my post :-) See how short for Ryttare is written in a different way marked in green:
Also the full word before Erik (the man under Nils in the record) marked in yellow (also at the top of the document) must be some military thing because at the top it says vacant after the word. There are many such words in Hinneryd tax record. It is partly abbreviations so I am not sure there though I think it has something to do with horses/cavalry.

When it comes to the regiments in SMåland there was a SMåland cavalry regiment (later called K4) called Horsemen from Småland from 1684. The whole regiment was captured in 1709. They had horsemen from all around Småland. The link you got from Lennart is to the Smålands femmänningsregemente on foot, the infantry. But there were several other regiments with horsemen in Skåne, Uppland and Västergötland too, who all had some men from Småland. It was a chaotic time with a need of more men everytime the Swedes had lost. In the end so many Swedes (Finns included) died (over 200 000 soldiers) because of the Great Northern War. Bare in mind Sweden only had a population around 2-3 millions then (most likely closer to 2 millions).  I have written an article about Karl XII.s last campaign to Norway in 1718 but it is only in Swedish I am afraid. I have ancestors in Norway who got their homes destroyed and also ancestor(s) in the Swedish army invading in 1718.

If you want to know more about the Swedish Army in the past here is a link to wikipedia, but I think there must be more on Hans Högmans site. here is also a link to his main site in ENglish.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Sweden
http://www.hhogman.se/swegen.htm

Good Luck

Klas

2021-09-09, 13:33
Svar #11

Utloggad Klas Wallén

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Here is the picture I mentioned :-)

Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Kronobergs län 1642-1820 (G) 46 (1704) Bild: 880 Sida: 2133

2021-09-09, 15:45
Svar #12

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Hi Klas,

Thank you for the further information!

I had also posted another request on this topic, which is found at: 

https://forum.rotter.se/index.php?topic=180546.0

Kalle kindly pointed out to me that " It does not say "ryttare", it says "knekt" shorted to Ktt which is an old word for soldier. So I guess the soldier Lennart found for you in the other topic might be right anyway." 

So, my translation of ryttare was incorrect!   :)  I still have a lot of trouble with the old handwriting and abbreviations.

But, I will look into the other words to see if I'm missing anything else!

Thank you so much for your help.  It is very much appreciated!

Vicki

2021-09-09, 17:42
Svar #13

Utloggad Klas Wallén

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Hi Vicki!

Well then he must have been a soldier in the femmänningsregement all the time. He is noted as 5-tling ktt in one of the pictures you posted.
The soldier I mentioned was the one found by Lennart Altin for you here under this topic.

The Smålands tre- and femmänningsregemente is noted on Hans Högmans site under nr 8. Under nr 9 you find the cavalry. The soldier Nils Svensson Hultman that Lennart gave you a link to was in the Smålands femmänningsregemente on foot.  But to confuse things there were also some femmänning- and tremännings-soldiers on horse too of what I understand, perhaps also in the infantry? I guess to be fully sure what kind of soldier Nils was (most likely foot soldier I would say) you will perhaps need to ask the Swedish War Archive. If you can give them the sourse with exact page they will not charge you much I think, but come to think of it once more he must have been a soldier on foot.

The Småland femmänningsregemente on foot had the sort of cloths I mention below and I do not think they participated in the campaigne against Norway in 1718, that was the tremänningsregemente I think. But by then Nils must have left the army.

Småland five men Regiment of Foot 1703-1719 Blue cassock with tin buttons Yellow lining/cuffs Yellow collar and Black tricorn hat with a blue braid (this according the book Uniforms of the Swedish army part II by Christian Braunstein)

Regards

Klas

2021-09-09, 19:17
Svar #14

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Hi again, Klas,

Thank you for this additional information.  I will see what I can find out.

Your help is much appreciated,

Vicki

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