Need help understanding early Sickinge, Ljungby household record

[Victoria Cihla]

Can anyone help me understand the attached household record in Sickinge, Ljungby.  It is the first available household record for Ljungby parish - dates are not specifically referenced on the exam record although the listing indicates that the records end in 1793.  You can see the families and birth years for them so you can get some idea.

Ljungby (G) AI:1 (-1792) Image: 59 Page: 107
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18851?image=59

It looks like it says:
       Ibm (same place which is Sickinge) Jöns Jönsson (with a note after it) - this name is crossed out

       Ibm Jöns J? born 1732
       wife Margareta born 1714
       son Jöns born 1751
       daughter Anna born 1753

Then the these people are crossed out.

Are the first 2 names the same name? Did the first man die and the widow remarried someone much younger?  It is quite confusing. 

Any help with interpreting this would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you,

Vicki

[Yvonne Stenberg]

Hi again Vicki,

It looks like a widow that has married a younger man and his name is Jöns Swensson. The other Jöns above has probably nothing to do with this family. A farmhand Jöns Svensson from Roen married the widow Margreta Persdotter in Ryssby parish 1758 28/12. It does not say where they moved from Sickinge.

Is this the family you are looking for:

Ryssby (G) AI:2 (1749-1767) Bild 65 / sid 111

/Yvonne

[Victoria Cihla]

Hi Yvonne,

Thank you for looking at this interesting entry.

I don't think that is the family I'm looking for.  But it caught my attention as I have been following a Jöns Jönsson born ca 1720 in Sickinge, Ljungby back in time. 

I believe I am following the correct person because I know that Jöns Jönsson married Brithe Stensdotter 2 Jun 1745, the groom was from Sickinge, Ljungby and the bride was from Kånna Norrgård, Kånna.  They moved to Kånna Norrgård and their children were born there.

In tracing back the origins of Jöns, you can see that Jöns Jönsson is not married on the 1744 or 1745 tax record in Sickinge:

Kronobergs-läns-landskontor-G-EV-1-1744-Image-5270-Page-1131     
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v400709?image=5270&page=1129

Kronobergs-läns-landskontor-G-EV-2-1745-Image-4510-Page-1141     
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v400710?image=4510&page=1139

But Jöns Jönsson is married on the 1746 tax record:

Jöns Jönsson Kronobergs-läns-landskontor-G-EV-3-1746-Image-4720-Page-965.    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840177?image=2380&page=963

Of course, I don't know for sure that any of the other Jöns listed before him (and there are a couple ) in Sickinge are his father.

Another thing I know is that my Jöns Jönsson had a daughter named Margaret, born 1750 in Kånna Norrgård, Kånna.

I went back further and found that in 1718 and 1720 there was a Jöns listed in the tax records and Jordeböcker that might be the father of Jöns Jönsson. 

1718 tax record Jöns 1718 tax Sickinge:
Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-52-1718-Image-1490-Page-1107
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840176?image=1490&page=1105

Jordeböcker, Jordeböcker Kronobergs län, SE/RA/55201/55201.07/80 (1720)
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0055370_00425#?c=&m=&s=&cv=424&xywh=-2880%2C127%2C12466%2C4719

But, in 1721 there was only a widow Margareta and a Pär and Erich:

Jordeböcker, Jordeböcker Kronobergs län, SE/RA/55201/55201.07/83 (1723)
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0055372_00404#?c=&m=&s=&cv=403&xywh=3046%2C2637%2C2689%2C1115

However, none of these dates sync with the information from this household record and maybe I have been following the  the wrong Jöns altogether. 

I am curious of your thoughts on whether any this stuff might fit together or be somehow related!

Now that I understand how to use the Jordeböcker information, I'm using it to fill in all the gaps and even compare with the same tax years.  Very interesting!  Jörgen Tollesson sent me a very useful link for this!

As always I'm appreciate of any help and advice you have to offer! 

Thanks so much!

Vicki

[Yvonne Stenberg]

OK, but the first Ljungby book only starts in the 1750-ies so your Jöns would not be in that book. But, the wife Sigrid on top of the page is one of the witnesses at the baptism of their son Sten 1752, Sigrid Jönsdotter in Sickinge. Possible sister? How do you know that Jöns was born in Sickinge Ljungby? He might just have been there as a farmhand as his possible sister married to that place? Have you followed her? My thoughts...


/Yvonne

[Victoria Cihla]

Thank you for your thoughts!  Good point, that since the other records in Ljungby don't begin until the 1750's, that should have been a clue in understanding when the household records likely began.

I had considered that Jöns may not have been born at Sickingle.  There are quite a few Jöns listed on the tax records there over the years, not sure which might have been him, if any.  He may have been a farmhand and his sister may have married there.

In 1733 there is a Sigrid listed but not listed as a daughter:

Riksgäldsarkiven-Riksens-ständers-kontor-Kammarkontoret-GIg-820-1733-Image-1470-Page-287
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v835384?image=1470&page=287

There is a daughter named Sigrid listed with the widow Margareta on the 1734 and 1735 tax records at Sickinge.  I didn't understand how she might fit in but had noted it.

Riksgäldsarkiven-Riksens-ständers-kontor-Kammarkontoret-GIg-821-1734-Image-1360-Page-265
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v835385?image=1360&page=265

Riksgäldsarkiven-Riksens-ständers-kontor-Kammarkontoret-GIg-822-1735-Image-1220-Page-235
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v835386?image=1220&page=235

I must admit I missed that possible connection provided in Sten's birth record which shows, along with Sigrid being from Sickinge, it even listed her patronymic name Jönsdotter! 

I will look into that connection too, so I thank you for your thoughts on this! 

If you notice any more on the records I reference above, I would welcome your further thoughts.

Thanks again,

Vicki

[Victoria Cihla]

Can anyone help with the circles (words or abbreviations) on the two attached records?  I'm trying to understand the relationship this person (Karin?) has to this family.

The first is from an early household record (1750's)

ArkivDigital: Ljungby (G) AI:1 (-1792) Image: 59 Page: 107
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18851?image=59

The other is from 1752 tax record in Sickinge, Ljungby

Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-59-1752-Image-3040-Page-595
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840183c?image=3040&page=593

Thanks for your help,

Vicki

[Yvonne Stenberg]

In the tax notes it says "fl." meaning flickan, the girl. It also looks like it could be her age to the right. Maybe you can find a heading for the column earlier in the book. In the household notes it could have been "fl." earlier, hard to tell when it has been crossed out. As to the name of the son Jonas in your other question I think the priest was tired....


/Yvonne

[Victoria Cihla]

Thank for this information, Yvonne!  I was just writing you with a synopsis of my work when you responded - so will copy it here... I'll see if I can find the headings but I believe you are correct as I've seen her birth year listed as 1737 on the household record which would fit in with the 1752 tax record.

Hi Yvonne,

It seems likely that Sigrid Jönsdotter is the sister of my ancestor Jöns Jönsson.  You already pointed out that she is a witness to the birth of one of Jöns children. The early Sickinge household record fits in well with what I've been able to find so far in the tax records also.

It seems too that she may also be the daughter of the widow Margreta - as listed in the tax records.  However, she couldn't be the biological daughter - maybe she was a daughter born to her husband's previous wife (?) as Margreta was born in 1714 and Sigrid was born in 1712.  Would they list a previous wife's child as their daughter in the tax records?

The daughter Sigrid is listed in the tax records between 1733 and 1739.  After that, both Sigrid and Margaret  seem to disappear.  But, there is a Jöns Pärsson in Sickinge with a wife in 1744 through 1754 - I think the wife was Sigrid and that they were still there.  However, they are gone in 1756.  And I have no idea where they went. 

Also the widow Margreta is a gone from Sickinge after 1740.  If she is the same person (and it does appear that she is) as in the Ryssby parish marriage record in 1758, I have no idea where she was between 1740 and 1758.  I think that she is not my ancestor and I should be looking for previous wife.

I've done some checking in Ljungby, Kånna, Annerstad and Ryssby for additional children, death records, estate inventories, but have not found anything more on this family.  Not sure where to look next.  Any more ideas or am I at the end of the road with this one?  As always I'm very happy to check out any clues and am very appreciative of your help.

So that's how I've spent my last two days! 

Thanks again,

Vicki