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Författare Ämne: Looking for my Great great Grandfather Laurentius Noren  (läst 198 gånger)

2021-01-13, 19:50
läst 198 gånger

Utloggad Mr Brian Cross

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Hi Everyone

I was guided here as I have been researching my GG Grandfather for several years but cannot find his details in Sweden :-(

I can find him as far back as 1870 when, at the age of 27, he married a Helen Esplin Robertson a Scottish lady in Saint Giles, Edinburgh. I have the marriage certificate if you wish to see it. On this certicate his father is stated as being Anders Noren, a joiner and his mother was down as being Martha Anderson. There is no mention of where they or Laurentius was born.

I have followed his life living in Edinburgh and then around 1880 in Kirkcudbright also in Scotland. He died in Kirkcudbright on August 18th 1885 and I have his will but within that there is no mention of where he was born.

My DNA points to a Swedish connection in the area about Uppland, Gastrikland and Halsingland. I hope this helps the search.

I am basically wanting to find where Laurentius was born as well as some info on his father. Obviously I'd like to find out when he came to the UK and from where? Did he travel to the US first and then travel to the UK from there.

Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

2021-01-13, 21:54
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Utloggad Leif Lundkvist

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Probably he was born as Lars Andersson 1842-06-08 in Oviken (Z) (= Jämtland) C:4 (1812-1861) Bild 1110 / sid 209 (AID: v115069.b1110.s209, NAD: SE/ÖLA/11086). This man lived as Tailor Journeyman Lars Norén in Göteborgs Kristine (O) AI:6 (1861-1870) Bild 331 / sid 326 (AID: v35148.b331.s326, NAD: SE/GLA/13187) from 1863 until 1864 and after that year his residence is unknown. Anything that don't seem to be correct?

2021-01-13, 23:18
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Utloggad Mr Brian Cross

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Wow Leif this is fantastic - it looks like you might have found him and I'm not sure how but what I did not mention in my original post was that when I first found him in Edinburgh he was a tailor :-)  This to me is proof that you have found the correct person.

There is a distant rumour in the family that he was in the Swedish Navy and jumped ship when the ship docked at Leith in Edinburgh. I wonder if we can discover if this was true or not?

Leif is the date 1842-06-08 his birth date and was he born in Oviken? I have looked on the map but cannot be sure if Oviken is in one of the areas Uppland, Gastrikland and Halsingland - is this so?

Obviously I need to get his birth certificate and any details of where he lived and can I ask if this is possible and is that what the numbers are in your post?

I have lots of questions and am hoping that you and other people will be able to help me solve this problem.

Many, many thanks to you  :D :D

2021-01-14, 02:46
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Utloggad Leif Lundkvist

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Yes, I would be very surprised if we find anything that show that this is not the right man.


I don't know much about sailor research, maybe someone else can do that.


Date format is YYYY-MM-DD and it is his date of birth. Oviken is a parish in Jämtland, some 30 km southwest of Östersund, a bit further to the north and more inland than what the DNA suggested. Large parts of the parish is a mountain area, containing Oviksfjällen. Use hitta.se and search for Oviken and you should find it and also Side, the place where the family lived at least until 1847.


I use ArkivDigital which is digital pictures of old records, but you have to pay a fee to use it. Oviken is the parish, C:4 is the volume signum (C stands for birth records), 1812-1861 is the years that volume cover, Bild 1110 is the picture number (specific for AD), sid 209 is the page number, the AID is a way to fast get access to the page at AD, and NAD is the volume number in the National Archive Database. You can access photos at Riksarkivet for free, but the quality at ArkivDigital is better, the volume information is (usually) the same.


Below are copies of the birth record and the first Household Examination at Side in Oviken. The birth record say "Lars Andersson in  Botåsen was born 8th June at 6 pm...", and Botåsen is where his father Anders Larsson came from. He married Mareth Olofsdotter 1842-04-30 and they settled in Side. (I know that they later moved to Östersund.)




2021-01-14, 09:44
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Utloggad Mr Brian Cross

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Thank you Leif, much appreciated.

What I am finding strange at the moment and I think it must be the Swedish way is the change of name. On his marriage certificate Laurentius (Lars) gave his fathers name as Anders Noren and his mother as Martha Noren but before marriage name as Anderson.

In the text in your previous post you say his fathers name was Anders Larsson and that he married Mareth Olofsdotter. But where does Noren fit into all this? why does Lars say his father was Anders Noren and why in your earlier post does his name change to..."This man lived as Tailor Journeyman Lars Norén in Göteborgs Kristine"

Sorry but all seems strange and unusual but I'm sure that when I understand it I will see how it all works.

Thanks again for the two documents and I hope that someone comes along with maybe a document that shows how he came to England. The rumour of him absconding from the Navy is only a rumour so might not be true.

Thank you again :-)

2021-01-14, 16:27
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Utloggad Leif Lundkvist

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At that time the main naming system in Sweden was patronym, i.e. Lars was named Lars Anders' son, and his sister Mareth Anders' dotter. Almost all soldiers got other names, such as Norén, to be able to differentiate between all Lars Andersson that would be present in a company. But all people could take such names, it was very rare among farmers but quite common among craftsmen, thus being a tailor journeyman was a reason for Lars to take such a name. It is possible that Anders Larsson actually also took the name Norén, if you follow him in Household Examinations you will see if that is the case. When people arrived to countries where family names were common, they often gave their parents false family names, as the truth would give so many questions. In the 19th century it gradually became more common to use family names and 1905 there was a name law that stated that we should use family names. If Lars had lived at that time he could take the name Andersson for himself and his children, as well as his wife would also be named Andersson, born Persson or whatever, but earlier women did not change their names when married, Mareth Andersdotter would have that name all her life. On the other hand, Lars could take his father's family name and be Lars Larsson as well as his whole family. When you follow Lars in HE you should find when he changed to Norén, the final proof that it is the same person.

2021-01-14, 16:41
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Utloggad Mr Brian Cross

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Hi Leif

Many thanks - I will respond later but I have sent you a private message.  :D


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