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Författare Ämne: Looking for suggestions on how to proceed my research  (läst 788 gånger)

2020-12-11, 20:44
läst 788 gånger

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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First, I apologize if this is something more than I should put here, but I'll give it try in case someone is willing to take to the time to read through it all.  I've to make it as concise as possible, so I appreciate any suggestions you can offer.

I am trying to determine which Lars is the father of my ancestor Pehr Larsson and his brother Anders Larsson who were born in Miäla (Torpa parish) in 1725 and 1731 respectively. These are the only two siblings I have found for this family.  It may be that they were from somewhere else and that there were more children earlier, but I have not found any children born after Anders.

Birth records
Pehr Larsson born 26 Jan 1725 Miäla, son of Lars, mother not listed - who is his father?
Torpa-G-C-1-1690-1747-Image-81-Page-157   
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30192?image=81

Anders Larsson born 30 July 1731, son of Lars, mother not listed
Torpa-G-C-1-1690-1747-Image-87-Page-169 
 https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30192?image=87

Household records for Miäla 1717-1723
On page 61 there is listed a Pehr (age 67) with wife Ingier (age 54) and son Jonas – may or may not be related to Per Larsson (maybe his grandfather? May be a stretch)
Torpa-G-AI-1-1717-1722-Image-41-Page-61.jpg
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v19646?image=41

On page 62 in Miala is listed a Giermund (age 57) with wife (age 33) a daughter Ingier (age 15 - crossed out with a note having to do with Skeen I think) and a son Giermund (erased?).   Further down on the page are listed the names Lars and wife Gunnil with no additional detail (no children).  I believe that Giermund and Ingier are Gunnil’s parents.
Torpa-G-AI-1-1717-1722-Image-42-Page-63.jpg
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v19646?image=42

Marriage record
If the parents were married in Torpa (and I know that is a big if), there are a couple possibilities:

The following marriage could explain the family’s connection to Miäla.  However, the names Måns and Gunnil don’t seem to fit into the naming pattern (although I only know of two children: Per and Anders for this family).  It would also fit with the timing of their first child Per.
23 Dec 1723 marriage between Drangan Lars Månsson from Skeen (Annerstad parish) and Pigan Gunnil Giermundsdotter in Miäla.
Torpa-G-C-1-1690-1747-Image-98-Page-191
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30192?image=98

This Lars would seem to explain the son named Per but the marriage took place at least a year after son Per was born (which is possible I realize) but there is no direct connection to Miäla.
1726 marriage between Drangan Lars Pehrsson of Abbeshult (Vrå parish) and Pigan Ingeborg Johansdotter in Gashult (Torpa parish)
Torpa-G-C-1-1690-1747-Image-99-Page-193
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30192?image=99

I also realize there may have been more than one marriage here – there is a six year age difference between the siblings.  Maybe there are 2 different fathers named Lars?

Tax records for Miäla – not sure how to tell if they are married, it seems only the husbands are listed
1723 Giermund
1724 Sven and Lars, Giermund and Gumme
1725 Sven, Lars and Jonas (or Jöns)
1726 Sven, Lars and p. Ingierd
1727 Sven, Lars, Gumme
1728 Sven, Bengt, Per Nilsson (there is a 1727 marriage record for a Pehr Nilsson who married174 an Ingier Giermundsdotter in Miäla -probably the sister of Gunnil Giermundsdotter).
1729 Sven, Lars Persson (this is the first time a last name is given)
1730 Sven w/daughter Brita, Lars Persson
1731 Sven Bengtsson, p. Kirstin, Lars Persson
1732 -1740 Lar is listed without a last name
1744 Sven Bengtsson, Lars Månsson (wife crippled) and son Per (under age 15)  The Per Larsson whose father I am trying to identify would have been 19 years old in 1744.
1745 Sven Svensson, Lars Månsson (wife crippled) and son Per. And a Jöns Larsson.
1746 Sven Svensson, Oluf Svensson, p. Kierstin, Lars Mansson (with a note – did he move out?, and a Jöns Larsson.
         Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-53-1746-Image-2440-Page-977
         https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840177?image=2440&page=977
1747 No Lars is listed.

Death record
I found the following record (is this the death record for the wife of Lars Månsson?) dated 28 Mar 1747, buried 6 April:
Torpa-G-C-1-1690-1747-Image-121-Page-233
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30192?image=121

Does anyone have any suggestions or comments for what they feel is likely or unlikely here?  At first glance, it seemed like the Lars Mansson who married Gunnil Giermundsdotter was the likely father based on marriage date and timing of birth of Per in January 1725.  But, the first time Lars Mansson is listed with full name in the tax records there was in 1744 (not that an earlier Lars (with no last name) could not have been him also).  That a Lars Persson appeared in the tax records there for three years (1729-1731) is also confusing as Per’s brother Anders was born in 1731. 

It’s a head scratcher.  😊

Not sure where to go next with this as I’ve looked through all the records I can think of.  Maybe it is another one I’ll have to set aside for now.  But, I’m open for suggestions!

Thanks so much for your help!

Vicki

2020-12-12, 14:39
Svar #1

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Hello again Vicki,

Some short comments:

- I think that you can rule out the parents of the Per who was born before the wedding - had that been the case he would definitely have been noted as oäkta (out of wedlock), or före äktenskap (pre-marriage)

- I take it for granted that you have followed all possible siblings, not only to your Per but to his presumed parents to see if they or their children turn up as witnesses at each others childrens baptisms.

- It is a bit early to find inventories, which I suppose you have checked?

Otherwise I think you have gone through most of what you can do digitally. The only thing would be - again - to start reading notes from the court books which is not so easy of course.

I'm not so familiar with Torpa parish, so I do not know much of the persons there at all I'm afraid.

Best regards,
Yvonne

2020-12-12, 16:11
Svar #2

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Hi Yvonne,

Thank you for your comments.  They are very helpful 

I have not been able to find anything on Per's brother Anders Larsson other than a death record for him so far.  I would have liked to find a marriage record and children for him, but have not been successful so far.  I've looked at the baptismal sponsors for them but haven't learned anything more from it, unfortunately. 

he Torpa estate inventory records begin in 1758 but I have done some checking.  Nothing yet, but I will check further on that. 

I've also done a little research on the two marriages, trying to see if I can find further information on the husbands. 

It seems very possible to me that a daughter of the previous farmer, Giermund, would be married to the next person to be taxed after Giermund at Miäla was no longer listed.  In that case, the marriage between Lars Månsson and Gunnil Giermundsdotter seems to be the most likely, but still leaves me wondering about the names which don't fit the naming pattern in what I can tell so far.  I'm going to redouble my efforts on Per's brother Anders to see if I can find a marriage record and any children.  The date of their marriage also makes sense.

It is possible that the Lars that is listed after Giermund in the tax record is Lars Månsson but I don't know that for certain.
It is very interesting that Lars Månsson shows up much later (with his full name) in the tax records.  It is also very interesting that it is noted that his wife is crippled.   

With this in mind, before I give up on furthering this particular family line, I am going to look further into Lars Månsson and also look into the 1727 marriage of Ingier Giermundsdotter to Pehr Nilsson listed in the tax records at one point.

Thank you very much for taking a look.  It helps to rule out one of the potential parents, so I can focus more on the other.  It may be that Giermund and his daughters are the key here.  We'll see.  :)

Maybe I'll even make an attempt at the court books - but don't hold your breath.   ;D

Thanks again.  Your help is always very much appreciated,

Vicki

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