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Författare Ämne: Need help with words on 1727 tax record in Vrå  (läst 5480 gånger)

2020-08-29, 23:28
läst 5480 gånger

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Can anyone help me with the words I've highlighted on the attached 1727 tax record?  It looks like Jöns is poor, but I don't know what the word that follows it is.  Also, what is the highlighted word on the next line? 

Riksgäldsarkiven-Riksens-ständers-kontor-Kammarkontoret-GIg-814-1727-Image-1610-Page-315
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v835378?image=1610&page=315 - Jöns is listed and son Pär (Pehr)

Thank you for your help with this!

Vicki Cihla

2020-08-29, 23:51
Svar #1

Utloggad Ulf Svensson

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My assumption is that the two words are connected to Jöns, being a soldier.

Förlofvad; in this case I think it means 'on leave' or absent. It could also mean engeged but I don't think so with my assumption.

Rustmästare is a rank corresponding to sergeant.

2020-08-30, 00:02
Svar #2

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Ok, that makes sense. I didn't realize that he was soldier.  Now, if I only knew his name.   :) 
In my next post, he is not there, just his son is.  And in 1729, neither he nor his son is listed there. 

I'll start going the other direction in the tax records  and see if I can learn his name!

Thanks for your help! 

Vicki Cihla







2020-08-30, 00:47
Svar #3

Utloggad Ulf Svensson

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Found, in the word book, that 'förlovad' also could mean dismissed. I don't want to aticepate you research but this guy from Centrala Soldaregistret could be of interrest.

  BOLMSTRÖM Jöns.
 Släktnamn: Larsson.
Född: 1692  Död: 1755.
 Antagen: 1721  Avsked: 1728.
   Aktnummer: KR-05-0601-1721 Regemente: Kronobergs regemente  Rote: Ljushult   Kompani: LJUNGBY KOMPANI   Socken: VRÅ   Torpnummer: KR-05-0601 

2020-08-30, 01:06
Svar #4

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Very interesting!!

I'll take a look. 

Thanks so much!

Vicki Cihla

2020-08-30, 03:24
Svar #5

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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On AD, I'm trying to access the GMRs for 1721-1728 for Kronobergs regemente , Ljungby Kompani - 
Kronobergs regemente 1673-1907: 5. kompaniet (Ljungby) - but I keep getting 1840-1920 records. 

When I try to enter using the other AD listings, when I go into the year 1721, there is no option for Ljungby kompani.  So I'm confused.  Not sure how to access these records.

Maybe I should be using Riksarkivet?  Will you refresh my memory on how to access the 1721-1728 records for:
 Antagen: 1721  Avsked: 1728.
   Aktnummer: KR-05-0601-1721 Regemente: Kronobergs regemente  Rote: Ljushult   Kompani: LJUNGBY KOMPANI   Socken: VRÅ   Torpnummer: KR-05-0601

He was only in the military for about 7 years and the only years listed were 1721 and 1728 so the information may be very limited, but I'd like to see what I can find.

Thanks for your help!

Vicki Cihla

2020-08-30, 12:02
Svar #6

Utloggad Ulf Svensson

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Try this link, if you haven't figured out your search.

https://sok.riksarkivet.se/generalmonsterrullor?RegementeIndex=Kronobergs+regemente&KompaniIndex=&DatumFran=1720&DatumTill=1735

Ljungby kompani is the name in a later organization of the regiment. Vrå parish is a part of Sunnerbo härad so it is most likely to find the man in one of the Sunnerbo companies.

2020-08-30, 14:45
Svar #7

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you very much - yes, Sunnerbo is usually where I've found them and didn't realize that is where I should be looking for this man.  I'm far from an expert in military knowledge!  But, I'm slowly learning.   :)

Thanks a lot for this!

Vicki Cihla

2020-08-30, 21:24
Svar #8

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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I'm sorry - If he is there, I cannot find Jöns Larsson Bolmström in the GMR for Kronobergs regemente for either Södra Sunnerbo or Norra Sunnerbo for 1721 or 1728.

He must be there so I'm not sure why I cannot find him.

Any further help would be greatly appreciated,

Vicki Cihla

2020-08-30, 22:20
Svar #9

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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I think the soldier you have been looking for is identical to this one:

http://www.ljungbykompani.se/000/023/035.htm


Somehow it does not seem to be the correct Jöns. Do you have the birth details for his son Per or other siblings?


/Yvonne


2020-08-30, 22:41
Svar #10

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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I just was sending that same link when you sent it to me!  How interesting!   

i have very little information to go on here and I am inclined to agree with you.  Basically, this is how I got there, starting with his son Pehr:

Pehr Jönsson b. 1708 (either Vrå or Torpa) married Karin Gudmundsdotter b. 1716.  They are listed on the 1784-1788 household record at Össjöa Backstugan, Torpa. This is where I got their birth years.

All of their children were born in Össjöa, Torpa: Jöns b. 1738, Carl b. 1740, Gummund b. 1743, and Ingierd b. 1744.

I could not find a marriage record in Torpa so I checked surrounding parishes and found a 1736 marriage record in Vrå for a Pehr Jönsson and Karin Gudmundsdotter - I believe this is the correct marriage record for them.

But, this is where it gets confusing - the Vrå marriage record says that Pehr is from Hjortseryd and Karin is from Ösjöhult.  Since I don't have either birth record I don't know if they is where they were born. 

There is also a 1761 tax record in Össjöa, Torpa listing Pehr and son Carl (Carl appears on many of the tax records).

I have also have Pehr Jönsson's death record in 1790 in Össjöa, Torpa and his wife Karin Gudmundsdotter death record in 1794 in Balkeryd (this is where their son Carl and family where living).

So that is what I know.   If you see any errors in my thinking, please let me know!

Any direction you can provide would really be appreciated!

Thanks for your help,

Vicki Cihla



2020-08-30, 22:54
Svar #11

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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I should add that there is an estate inventory for Karin Gudmundsdotter in 1795 that mentions Carl Pehrsson in Balkeryd, Torpa.  So I feel that part is pretty solid.

But, I don't have any idea for certain where Pehr Jönsson was born - could be Vrå or Torpa.  If it is Torpa, those birth records are missing from the listings, and I couldn't find on in Vrå.  I looked at the 1727 tax records for Hjortseryd for Jöns when I thought I might find his son with him.  That is where I started looking - and found a Jöns and son Pehr.  Might not even be the right people....

Riksgäldsarkiven-Riksens-ständers-kontor-Kammarkontoret-GIg-814-1727-Image-1610-Page-315
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v835378?image=1610&page=315

But this may be way off.

So, again, any help would be very much appreciated,

Vicki Cihla

2020-08-31, 00:43
Svar #12

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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I think your ideas seem good. Birth years may be a bit off - especially if they are living in a parish where they are not born and the priest does not know them very well. I would also have gone for tracing Per in Hjortseryd as you did, and there was a Jöns with wife even before 1701.


Have you tried to identify the witnesses at the baptism of their first child? It is getting late now, and I will also try again tomorrow unless you find something better before then.


/Yvonne

2020-08-31, 01:33
Svar #13

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yes, I've looked at the witnesses on each child's birth record, nothing really stood out but I will take another look.  I've also been looking at other possibilities for children born to a Jöns.   There are so many Jöns!  Not always sure how to know which to follow so it is a slow process! It is very interesting work, but I want it to be accurate!  I'm open to any suggestions!

Your help and input is very much appreciated! 

Thank you for all your help,

Vicki Cihla

2020-08-31, 13:21
Svar #14

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Per's background is still not clear, he only appears a short time in Hjortseryd (as farm hand probably) before he marries Karin/Katarina Gudmundsdotter in Össjöhult, I think he is born somewhere else.
On the other hand, it seems likely that Karin is daughter of Gumme (Jonsson) who seems to have moved from Våkön in Vrå to Össjöhult about 1729.

I have found the following which I think ties them together:

17411230 Gumme in Össjöhult die 68 years old, born ca 1672
(1710 possible first wife of Gumme or Trotte, hust Kirstin at Wåköön dies 19 years old, born ca 1691)
1710 Jon at Wåköön dies 65 years old, born ca 1645
(1710 Gunnil at Wåköön dies 54 years old, born ca 1656 - a bit young for being mother of Gumme but well for his possible brother Trotte)
1757 buried 0605 the widow Kierstin Jönsdotter dies in Ösjöhult 65 years old born ca 1689
17420410 Trotte at Vråkön dies 61 years 10 months old born ca 1680  (he was married to a Märta)

17251004 Gudmund born, father Johan Össja Torpa sn - where does he fit in?
17430525 dr Johannes Gummesson Össiehult marries widow Ingar Nilsdotter in Ösjö Torpa Sn

In Össjöhult Johan and wife Gudborg have the children Karin 1709, Kirstin 1714, Cathrina 17170812, Ingärd 17181113, Annika 17190620, Jon 17211115, Sven 17240912. Johan Nannesson died 1752 75 years old born ca 1677. I think (his son?) Gudmund mentioned above married the daughter of Gumme, Ingeborg, sister of your Karin. Needs to be checked.

In Wåköen Gumme (Jonsson) och Kirstin have the children KARIN 17171114, Ingebor 17210511, Kirstin 1728.
In Wåköen Trotte and wife Märta have the children Ingärd 17171119, Jon 171712 bg 22, Ingred 17220112, Per 17230222, Pär 17250215, Jon 17280104, Annika 17310224. Trottes last name not clear yet.

1752 Karin Gudmundsdotter in Össia in Torpa witnesses the christening of Johannes, son of her syster Ingebor Gudmundsdotter and Gudmund Johannesson in Össjöhult.

Still remains to find Per!

/Yvonne


2020-08-31, 13:37
Svar #15

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you VERY much for this information!!  You have given me a lot to look into and I'm looking forward to it!

Regarding Per, I think we may never know much more about him.  I'm happy to have discovered as much as I have about this family as they have been very challenging.

You have given me a lot to look into and I'm looking forward to digging in. 

Thank you again for all of this information! 

I really appreciate it!

Vicki Cihla






2020-08-31, 15:27
Svar #16

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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I think you can delete Ingierd born 1744 in Össia as the child of Per Jönsson and Karin - I think she is the daughter of their neighbour Per Persson. It is hardly half a year between Gudmund and Ingier, maybe is the wife Karin in Össia who is a wittness your Karin. Or have you followed Ingierd the whole lifespan?
/Yvonne

2020-08-31, 15:57
Svar #17

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Instead maybe they had a daughter Ingeborg born 1750 17/1. Maybe she is the wife of Lars Börjesson who also witnessed the inventory after Karin together with Carl Pährsson.

Torpa (G) C:2 (1748-1772) Bild 5 / sid 5 (AID: v30193.b5.s5, NAD: SE/VALA/00381)

2020-08-31, 16:50
Svar #18

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yes, I totally agree with you on those comments.  I left Ingierd on there for further investigation and use in checking name patterns, knowing it was too soon, but wasn't yet sure what was good info or not.

And I bet you are correct about the daughter Ingeborg b. 1750 which i accidentally omitted when sending my response in haste.  :(   I just checked the household records for Össjöa and Lars Lars Börjesson is married to Ingierd Håkånsson (not sure of using the correct letters on this name)- maybe this is a second wife?  It is the earliest household record.  They have a daughter Karin b. 1773. and a daughter Kiersten b. 1779.

Torpa (G) AI:2 (1784-1800) Image: 99 Page: 183
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v19647?image=99

I also tried a quick search in Vrå for a marriage record for Ingeborg and Lars but didn't see it there but I need to recheck and also check Torpa. 

I have to do a couple errands this morning and I will be back....

Thanks so much for all your doing to help me!  It is fascinating. 

Wish I could keep up with you!!  I feel so slow at researching compared to you so I apologize if my responses are slow.

Thanks again,

Vicki Cihla

2020-08-31, 17:32
Svar #19

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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More notes:


1765 27/5 Lars Bergesson in Össia marries Ingebor Persdotter in Össia
Lars and Ingebor have the children Kierstin 1768 15/6, Karin 1773 1/2 and kierstin again 1777 12/12
1780 3/10 Ingebor, wife of Lars Borgesson in Össja dies
1781 4/6 the widower Lars Börjesson in Össja in Torpa parish marries Ingiärd Håkansdotter in Gunnalt (Gunhult) in Vrå parish

So yes, Lars remarried and Ingebor died early

/Yvonne


2020-08-31, 17:42
Svar #20

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you!  Thank you!

Looks like i have plenty of work this afternoon!

Thanks again,

Vicki

2020-09-01, 03:02
Svar #21

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you again for all of the information! 

I believe you are correct that Ingierd Persdotter is not the child of Pehr Jönsson and Karin Gudmundsdotter.  I have deleted this child from that family.

Ingebor Pehrsdotter and Lars Bergesson's first daughter named Kierstin died 16 Apr 1775 of Bröstsjuka (chest sickness) at Össjöa, Torpa, age 6 yrs.  Torpa (G) C:3 (1773-1860) Image: 209 Page: 407

1780 death record for Lars Bergesson's first wife Ingeborg Pehrsdotter shows she died of Krafta (cancer), correct?  Also, her age at time of death is listed as 37 years old, which I would have thought would be 30 years since she was born in 1750.   Torpa-G-C-3-1773-1860-Image-214-Page-417

On the 1784-1800 Torpa household record for Lars Bergesson and second wife Ingiård Håkansdotter listed 2 daughters: Karin b. 1773 and Kiersten b. 1779 - those would both have been Ingeborg Pehrsdotter's children (1st wife) and the 1779 date is inaccurate as it should be 1777.   Torpa (G) AI:2 (1784-1800) Image: 99 Page: 183

Also, regarding Pehr Jönsson - I think you are right, that he was born somewhere other than Hjortseryd, Vrå - I'm still thinking is is from Torpa, maybe Össjöa.  What do you think?  Maybe it will be impossible to discover for certain since he doesn't seem to have come from Hjortseryd, Vrå  and the birth records in the range of his supposed birth year are missing in the Torpa birth records - I have checked and rechecked the available birth records around that time.

I'm currently working on the information you sent regarding Karin Gudmundsdotter, which I hadn't start on yet and so is all new.  The places and names are very unfamiliar sounding at this point so I am being very careful going through it all.

Again, I really appreciate all the help you are giving me with this!  I'll continue tomorrow...    :)

Vicki Cihla

2020-09-01, 10:45
Svar #22

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Yes, you are correct, kräfta is cancer. And the two daughters were of course from Lars' first marriage.


As regards years of birth notes in household examination books cannot generally be trusted, many times they have changed over the years. The errors become more frequent the later in life it is for the person. So also in the books of death and burials. Unless the priest looks up the birth it is very often given as an approximate age. Many times the people did not know themselves their exact year of birth, christening dates were more important. Hence the errors also in the death records.


Concerning the background of Karin, I started with the tax books for the year of her marriage in Össjöhult, and tried to backtrack a Gumme in the village she came from - and 1730 there was a Gumme Jonsson coming from somewhere. Very conveniently a Gumme disappeared from a village nearby (Våkön). Looking at his family picture he had a daughter Karin born 1717.... I think you will find that the sisters in that family (including your Karin) were witnesses at each others child christenings sometimes, even though they lived in different parishes. I think that ties them together. Closer than that I do not think you can come when you cannot follow them "backwards" in time through the household rolls without breaks, which would have been the normal way. But these books do not exist here, so all information are more or less a guess unless you find f ex inventories that specify names of children etc. But allt his you already know of course.


Per is more difficult, and I also wondered about the connection with Össia in Torpa. Maybe you need to look upp the families around there to if possible. I have not looked much at the books there.


/Yvonne




2020-09-01, 13:40
Svar #23

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you for all of this information!  I know that the birth years listed on household records are often inaccurate, but I've been pretty fortunate overall in that most have been within a year or two.  Ingeborg Pehrsdotter really died young - only 30 years old in actuality. 

Eventually there is a point where it is not possible (sigh) to definitively prove further relationships, but it is amazing how much you can piece together using all available records this far back. 

Today I will continue working on Karin Gudmundsdotter's family!  Before I move on to another family, I am going to take a further look at Pehr Jönsson and focus more in Össjöa in Torpa. I may have more questions!

Thanks again for all your help!

Vicki Cihla


2020-09-02, 01:54
Svar #24

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne,

Wow!  - You've really kept me busy.  I am continuing to research and document everything you sent.  So far I am comfortable with my understanding of the most all of the relationships, except for a few people I have "leftover."    :) But, I'm hoping as I work through all of the people, maybe I'll find a place for everyone to fit!   

Thanks again for your help,

Vicki

2020-09-04, 02:07
Svar #25

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne,

I have been working on all this information and in the process I've found another estate inventory that is interesting. 

You previously wrote:

Citera
Johan Nannesson died 1752 75 years old born ca 1677. I think (his son?) Gudmund mentioned above married the daughter of Gumme, Ingeborg, sister of your Karin. Needs to be checked.  (referring to your comment: 17251004 Gudmund born, father Johan Össja Torpa sn - where does he fit in?)

I found the 24 Feb 1751 marriage record in Össjöhult for Gudmund Johannesson and Ingebor Gudmundsdotter.
Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-9-Page-11

Also their 3 children born in Össjöhult:
Johannes b. 1752 Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-73-Page-137
Gudmund b. 1754  Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-76-Page-143
Carl 1759 b. 1759  Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-83-Page-155

Gudmund Johannesson died 13 June 1762, age 37 in Össjöhult, Vrå.  The estate inventory was done in Oct 1762.  There are lots of names, and I wonder if you would take a look at my "very rough" translation and let me know if I'm on the right track.  I know I am not getting all of it. 

This is from the first page of the estate inventory  Sunnerbo-häradsrätt-G-FII-2-1759-1764-Image-85-Page-131

Year 1762 18 October - an estate inventory was conducted after the death of danneman Gudmund Johansson in Össjöhult, Vrå parish. 

His widow Ingebor Gudmundsdotter in Össjöhult is being represented by her mother's brother Håkan Jönsson in Mäste.

His son Johannes, 12 years old, is represented by dannemann Sven Johannesson.  maybe his uncle - dad's brother?

His son Gudmund, 8 years old, is represented by danneman Nils Pårsson in Össjöa, Torpa parish.

His son Carl, 3 1/2 years old, is represented by dannemann Johannes Gudmundsson in ? and Veinge parish in Halland.

I'm going to work on the last page next where there are more names and relationships I think.

Any help you can give would be much appreciated. 

Thank you for the ongoing help with this,

Vicki




2020-09-04, 12:46
Svar #26

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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So Johan Nannesson is not the father of Gudmund, he seems to have come från Hästhult in Vrå. There seem to be another connection between Össjöa in Torpa and Össjöhult in Vrå.

In Singsjö, Vrå, Johan and wife Ingierd have the children Sven 1717 30/7 and Ingred 1720 10/5. They have witnesses from Össjöhult. They do not seem to be there after 1720. Instead a Johan and wife Ingierd pops up in Össjöa, Torpa, and have the children Nils 1723 3/1, Gudmund 1725 4/10, Anders 1729 8/8, Oehr 1732 16/3, Peter 1734 23/8.

As regards the inventory you got it right, and you then also got the confirmation that Gudmund Jonssons' wife was Kirstin Jönsdotter, her brother being Håkan Jönsson från Mäste in Vrå. The brother of the childrens father, Sven Johannisson, was living in Hyhult, and the "brother of their father", Nils Pärsson, lived in Össjöa in Torpa. I think this Nils Pärsson is a brother in law as a Nils Persson married Ingrid Johansdotter - both in Össja - 1743 (see Ingrid above). The widow says that the childrens' "step father's father" is Johannes Gudmundsson i Eslared in Veinge parish in Hallands county. This indicates that Johans's wife Ingierd remarried a Johannes Gudmundsson. A Johannes Gummesson från Össiöhult in Vrå married the widow Ingar Nilsdotter i Ösjö Torpa 1743 25/5. 

Seems to be a lot of Gumme as well as Jöns in this story. There is a lot more work to be done here....:-)

/Yvonne

2020-09-04, 13:25
Svar #27

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Great!  Thank you so much!  I'm really glad you pointed out that Johan Nannesson is not the father of Gudmund because I have not been able to prove that part. 

It is a very slow process for me but a very enjoyable task.  I'm happy that i have understood much of it but know that I have missed parts that I couldn't figure out so your help is very much appreciated!!

I'll continue working .... :)

Thanks again,

Vicki

2020-09-04, 17:36
Svar #28

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Meanwhile I was thinking about this Carl in Byholma who was a witness when your Karin's sister Ingeborg was christened 1721. Ingeborg also named one of her sons Carl, so there might be a connection somewhere.


I looked up Carl - 1716 he married a widow, Kerstin Olofsdotter, who had previously been married and lived in Skogaryd in Annerstad parish. Carl and Kerstin settled in Byholma in Annerstad and had 3 children, Hans (who became a riding soldier with the name Holmgren), Maria and Per. I cannot find any connection so far to your family. Should you find any I have more information on their daughter Maria.


/Yvonne

2020-09-04, 18:10
Svar #29

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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2020-09-04, 18:37
Svar #30

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Interesting.  I was wondering where the Carl came from also.

My maiden name is Carlson .  :)  My grandfather was an immigrant.  I'll let you know if I find a connection! 

Thank you for the help!

Vicki


2020-09-05, 03:41
Svar #31

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne,

I've been going through tax records today for Våkön.

You wrote:

Citera
In Wåköen Trotte and wife Märta have the children Ingärd 17171119, Jon 171712 bg 22, Ingred 17220112, Per 17230222, Pär 17250215, Jon 17280104, Annika 17310224. Trottes last name not clear yet.

I found Trotte's last name listed as Jönsson in 1728 and 1730:
1728
1730    Riksgäldsarkiven Riksens ständers kontor Kammarkontoret GIg:817 (1730) Image: 1830 Page: 361

2020-09-05, 03:53
Svar #32

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne,

Not sure what I did wrong, but I'm resending....

I've been going through tax records today for Våkön.

You wrote:

Citera
In Wåköen Trotte and wife Märta have the children Ingärd 17171119, Jon 171712 bg 22, Ingred 17220112, Per 17230222, Pär 17250215, Jon 17280104, Annika 17310224. Trottes last name not clear yet.

I found Trotte's last name listed as Jönsson in 1728 and 1730:
1728    Riksgäldsarkiven-Riksens-ständers-kontor-Kammarkontoret-GIg-815-1728-Image-1620-Page-315
1730    Riksgäldsarkiven Riksens ständers kontor Kammarkontoret GIg:817 (1730) Image: 1830 Page: 361

The 1707 tax record lists Jon and his wife and Gumme.
Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Kronobergs län 1642-1820 (G) 49 (1707) Image: 1760 Page: 1923

The next available tax record is for the year 1715 and neither Jon nor his wife are listed.  Instead, both Trotte and Gudmund are listed along with their wives.  Their father, Jon, died in 1710 so that makes sense. 
Mantalslängder-1642-1820-Kronobergs-län-1642-1820-G-50-1715-Image-1650-Page-2069

I've seen records of the parents (Jon and wife) with son Hans and with son Gudmund, but not with Trotte, at least not yet.

I've got a lot of work to do.  :)

Thanks so much for your help,

Vicki


2020-09-05, 11:27
Svar #33

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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You have been working hard! I still think Trotte might be Jonsson, it could as well be Jonsson with a mark over the soft letter. And he christened two of his sons Jon. I think it was his widow Martha Persdotter who died in Våkön 1766.

And - I think I found a connection to Carl in Byholma. 1716 he married the widow Karin Olofsdotter, and guess who she was married to before? Hans Jonsson/Jönsson. This Hans died in Skogaryd Annerstad parish 28/12 1714, which could explain why Gummes brother never witnessed any of his siblings childrens christenings....

Keep up the good work! :-)

Annerstad (G) CI:1 (1708-1750) Bild 51 / sid 97 (AID: v30808.b51.s97, NAD: SE/VALA/00015)

2020-09-05, 14:49
Svar #34

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Wow!  What you have found is really interesting!  I was a bit thrown by finding a Hans!  Wasn't sure at all where he might fit in.

Thank you so much for your help and ALL the help I receive from everyone.  It motivates me to continue working hard at it.  I am learning so much and totally enjoying the work!

Thank you again for your ongoing help,

Vicki

2020-09-06, 17:26
Svar #35

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Hopefully I'm not complicating matters now, but I found more input for you about this family:

http://odensjohistoria.se/domboken1700_1704.htm

"1704 hösttinget 4 oktober. Jöns Hansson i Våkön låter uppbjuda ¼ skattejord i Östergården Torarp, som den 30 maj anno 1698 emot försträkte 30 daler silvermynt honom pantsatt varit, vilken jord vid senaste sommarting för resterande cronoräntor bliven intecknat, Uppbjudes till lösen och värdering 1 gången."

I.e. Jöns Hansson in Våkön is involved in an estate sale in Torarp in Odensjö parish (I do not remember offhand if it was the seller of buyer who had to announce the sale at the local district court at this time, in earlier days it was the seller, later on the buyer).

http://www.odensjohistoria.se/r622torarp.htm

"Bönder 1686: Torarp västergård Erik Nilsson, Jöns Hansson."

At least 1686 there really was a Jöns Hansson in Torarp (although in the west farm), and he was part of being responsible for the soldier's equipment there. Same Jöns?

A Jöns in Wåköen died there 1713.
- Gumme's wife Kerstin was a Jönsdotter
- If Trotte was a Jönsson and not a Jonsson - why did he christen two of his sons Jon...?

Meanwhile in Annerstad, Skogaryd, in tax records:

Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Kronobergs län 1642-1820 (G) 42 (1695) Bild 1740 / sid 1289
"Skogaryd Ngd brukas af Jöns i Wåkööen"  (farmed by Jöns in Wåkööen)

Gap to: Mantalslängder 1642-1820 Kronobergs län 1642-1820 (G) 43 (1701) Bild 1230 / sid 1611
"Skougary Hans hust 1, 1"

Same from 1702-1705 but then with a farmhand Assar. 1707 Hans and wife noted with "pilten Jönss, under 15 åhr". (young boy..) (if Jöns is a son, Kerstin was born about 1679 and rather young to be his mother. Could Hans have been married before? How about the Kirstin who died very young 1710 in Våkön?)

After the gap to 1715 in Skogaryd "Enck: Kirstin", and then 1717 "brukas af giästgifwaren i Wråå" (farmed by the inn keeper in Vrå).

Hans and Kierstin had at least two children in Skogaryd, Gunnil born about 1702 (before birth records) and Ola/Olof 1709 died same year. Gunnil later married to Karlskrona. A Gunnil died 1710 in Våkön (and 1714 but she was younger).

More to sort out I think.... :-?

/Yvonne

2020-09-06, 17:41
Svar #36

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you so much! Never fear you are giving me too much information!  I will gladly look into whatever I get! 

I started writing you this morning but wanted to wait until I had something solid to tell you!  So far, I've had more questions than answers! 

I will keep you informed of what I find!

Thanks so much for your ongoing help,

Vicki

2020-09-06, 19:53
Svar #37

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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In that case, I got inspired to look in availabe court cases and so far found some info of interest regarding Wåkön:


Sunnerbo dombok 1699



Joen Trottesson in Wåkön announced his purchase of 1/8 Wåkön 1699, see
https://www.sunnerbo.nu/Sunnerbo-dombok-1699.s119?highlight=w%C3%A5k%C3%B6%C3%B6n


and:


Sunnerbo dombok 1695


Jöns Ebbasson in Skogaryd (Annerstad) signed his will there 9th of May 1692 whereby he gave his daughter's son Jöns Jönsson in Wåkön all of his remaining property. His son in law, the customs official in Lund in Skåne county, is requesting inheritance after his father in law Jöns Ebbasson in Skogaryd on behalf of his late wife (Gunnil Jönsdotter) and her children. He is therefore requesting this from his brother in law Jöns Hansson in Wåkön. See
https://www.sunnerbo.nu/Sunnerbo-dombok-1695.s37



2020-09-06, 22:42
Svar #38

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Wow!!  THANK YOU!   That is really interesting! 

I'm reviewing the timeline starting from 1670 tracking who was living at Våkön for each available tax year, my handwriting isn't great so I'm putting in a spreadsheet and double-checking the spelling of the Jöns/Jons.  :)  I need to get a good overall picture of it since there are a lot of gaps in the timeline.  I will send you the years/names if that would be of any help you also.   I need to look at it in light of what you just sent.  This is the start it:

1670   Jöns and widowed mother
1671   Jöns and wife and (poor) widowed mother
1672   Jöns and wife
1673   Jöns and wife
1674   N/A
1675   Jöns and wife
1676   Jöns (deathly ill) and wife and Jon (who is he?)
1677   N/A
1678   N/A
1679   N/A
1680   Jöns and wife & Jon and wife
1681   N/A
1682   N/A
1683   N/A
1684   N/A
1685   N/A
1686   N/A
1687   Jöns and wife
1688   N/A
1689   Jöns lodger ? and wife and Hans
1690   Jöns lodger and wife and Hans
1691   Jöns lodger and wife and Hans
1692   Jöns and wife and Hans

I'll send you the rest shortly, unless it isn't useful to you.  Just let me know!

Thanks so much!

Vicki

2020-09-06, 23:30
Svar #39

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne,

Here is the timeline showing who was living at Våkön from 1670-1730:

1670   Jöns and widowed mother
1671   Jöns and wife and (poor) widowed mother
1672   Jöns and wife
1673   Jöns and wife
1674   N/A
1675   Jöns and wife
1676   Jöns (deathly ill) and wife and Jon (who is he?)
1677   N/A
1678   N/A
1679   N/A
1680   Jöns and wife & Jon and wife
1681   N/A
1682   N/A
1683   N/A
1684   N/A
1685   N/A
1686   N/A
1687   Jöns and wife
1688   N/A
1689   Jöns overaged/sick and wife and Hans
1690   Jöns overaged and wife and Hans
1691   Jöns lodger overaged and wife and Hans
1692   Jöns and wife and Hans
1693   Jöns and wife and Hans and Gudmund
1694   Jöns and wife and Hans
1695   Jöns and wife and Hans and Gudmund
1696   N/A
1697   N/A
1698   N/A
1699   N/A
1700   N/A
1701   Jon and wife and Gummun "note: he belongs to Embo"
1702   Jon and wife and dr Gumme
1703   Jön and wife and Gudmund
1704   Jön and wife and Gudmund
1705   Jon and wife and Gudmund
1706   N/A
1707   Jon and wife and Gumme
1708   N/A
1709   N/A
1710   N/A
1711   N/A
1712   N/A
1713   N/A
1714   N/A
1715   Trotte and wife and Gumme and wife
1716   N/A
1717   Trotte and wife and Gumme and wife
1718   Pär and wife and Gumme and (sick) wife
1719   Pär and wife and Gumme and (sick) wife
1720   N/A
1721   N/A
1722   N/A
1723   Trotte and Gumme and Pär and Nils
1724   Trotte and Gumme   
1725   Trotte and Gumme & p. Bengta
1726   Gumme and Trotte
1727   Gumme and Trotte
1728   Gumme and Trotte Jonsson
1729   N/A
1730   Jöran (poor) and Trotte Jönsson (Våkön)
1730   Gumme Jonsson (Össjöhult)

Now I'll review again, taking the newest information from you into account.

Thanks again for ongoing help!

Vicki

2020-09-07, 02:41
Svar #40

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne,

I've been catching up on the information you've given me so far - I'm sorry it takes me so long, but I'm trying to look at everything as closely as possible so I don't miss anything!  :)   I've been alternating between the the Gudmund/Trotte questions and information for other families and makings updates as we learn more. 

Tomorrow I'll continue...

Thanks again so much for all of this information!

Vicki

2020-09-07, 12:26
Svar #41

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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But you are not at all working slowly! On the contrary. It is very good that you are careful and control the information, as they are only suggestions that might fit in. It is very hard to tell exactly when you come back so far in time - there are many gaps between the books and the names are similar. Take your time and enjoy the work. :-)


I think the Jon/Trotte family might just be neighbours, unless married into Jöns family, which might to be ancestors of your Karin.


/Yvonne

2020-09-07, 15:40
Svar #42

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you for your words of encouragement!  It is very interesting and enjoyable work.  So I will continue on my way...   :)

I'm glad you are leaning toward Jon/Trotte family being just neighbors because I have not seen any indication that they are brothers. It really gets tricky when they have similar names. It may well be that they, as you say, married into Jöns family and may be ancestors of Karin (or not).   I appreciate your thoughts and hints on how to proceed.  I'll keep working on this along with the other information you have given me and whatever I discover along the way.

Thanks again so much for your help,

Vicki 

2020-09-07, 21:08
Svar #43

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne,

Previously you wrote:

Citera
Sunnerbo dombok 1695


Jöns Ebbasson in Skogaryd (Annerstad) signed his will there 9th of May 1692 whereby he gave his daughter's son Jöns Jönsson in Wåkön all of his remaining property. His son in law, the customs official in Lund in Skåne county, is requesting inheritance after his father in law Jöns Ebbasson in Skogaryd on behalf of his late wife (Gunnil Jönsdotter) and her children. He is therefore requesting this from his brother in law Jöns Hansson in Wåkön. See
https://www.sunnerbo.nu/Sunnerbo-dombok-1695.s37

I looked at the attached link and this is what I think it is saying (and I may be way off here) but here goes:

In 1692 Jöns Ebbasson made a will giving all his remaining property in Våkön to his grandson Jöns Jönsson, the son of his daughter with husband Jöns Hansson.  In 1695, his daughter Gunnil's husband , the customs official in Lund, Skåne county, contested this will (on behalf of Gunnil who had previously died).  The customs official was appealing to his brother-in-law, Jöns Hansson, in order to receive an inheritance for Gunnil's children.  It looks like his case failed, the will was upheld.  ???

If any of that is correct, it seems that the Jöns Hansson was the Jöns living there from at least 1692 through 1695, probably longer (maybe up to 1699, the tax records fo 1696-1700 are missing).  They had children Hans and Gudmund with them.

The next available tax record is for 1701 and it looks like a different family lives there.  This fits with the another case you mentioned:

Citera
Joen Trottesson in Wåkön announced his purchase of 1/8 Wåkön 1699

In 1699 Joen Trottesson purchased this property.  (That would be Jön, correct?)

In 1701 the tax record (first available after this purchase) for Våkön, shows a Jon and wife (Jon Trottesson and wife) living there with a dr Gudmund - there is a note on this tax record that "he" is from Embo - not exactly sure who "he" is - maybe saying the Gudmund is an unrelated farmhand?

Let me know if any of this is correct!  :)

Thank you so much for your ongoing help,

Vicki








2020-09-07, 21:34
Svar #44

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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I guess I entered ??? and got that "huh" emoji!  Didn't mean that! :)

Vicki

2020-09-07, 22:07
Svar #45

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Emojis are fun sometimes - :-)) I'm stuck with the old text based ones still.


You got it mostly right, very good I think. I omitted a word to you - it actually says that Jöns Ebbasson is leaving what is left of HALF his loose property. Possibly his wife is having the other half, it doesn't say. His widow is named in another document as Karin Månsdotter. Impossible to say if she is the mother of his daughters or if he married her later.


I think - but because of the gaps in the tax records it is impossible to confirm - that Jöns Hansson may even be the Jöns that lived at Våkön with his mother 1670. He married at that time and his sons Hans and Jöns must have been born around then as Hans shows up already 1689. The daughter of Jöns Ebbesson is at least the mother of a son Jöns, who is possibly to young to be seen in the tax books before he moves on somewhere. When Jöns Hansson got old he would no longer be seen in the tax books but he probably lived there until he died (maybe 1713 in Våkön).


Joen would be the same as Jon, Jöns would normally be a different name. It could be the same name in different parts of Sweden maybe, but here it looks as two different names.


The farmhand Gumme could be the either a different Gumme who should be written at Embo (that seems like a common name in that area then) or it could be Gumme, son of Jöns who is now too old to farm and lets his son Gumme take over, still unmarried thus a dräng. The older son Hans has most likely married between 1695 and 1701, so there was only Gumme (and Jöns?) left. How does that sound?



/Yvonne

2020-09-07, 22:31
Svar #46

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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I just stumbled on something else:


https://www.sunnerbo.nu/Sunnerbo-dombok-1676.s20?highlight=w%C3%A5k%C3%B6n

Göta Hovrätt - Advokatfiskalen Kronobergs län (G) EVIIAAAD:35 (1672-1676) Bild 3300 / sid 37 (AID: v206169.b3300.s37, NAD: SE/VALA/0382503)

If I read this case from 1676 correctly, the farmer at Wåkön, Jöns Hansson's ancestors have lawfully been living at Wåkön already 70 years earlier (counting from which date is a bit unclear). I think you can safely count on Jöns being there all the time.

/Yvonne


2020-09-07, 23:17
Svar #47

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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It makes perfect sense!   I had the same thought that Jöns Hansson, the father of Jöns Jönsson, would have lived at Våkön  for many years prior to his son inheriting property in 1692 from his maternal grandfather, Jöns Ebbasson.

The Jöns Hansson's long history there must have ended in 1699 when Joen Trottesson purchased the property - correct?  1715 and after we begin seeing mention os a Trotte Jonsson who must be his son?

I'm still confused about who the father of Gudmund is - do you think his father is the Jon buried May 1 1710 in Våkön? If so, that would fit timewise well within the 70 years (probably) of the Jöns Hansson family reign.  If so, how does he fit into the family?  Would he be a son of Jöns Jönsson or a brother?  Or have I just been looking at this too long?  :)

Thanks for all your help!

Vicki









 

2020-09-07, 23:48
Svar #48

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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In that article about Jöns Hansson's family living at Håkön for 70 years - was there some kind of dispute over the property in 1676?   

Thanks!!

Vicki

2020-09-08, 00:03
Svar #49

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Well Jon only bought half of Wåkön as I see it.


https://www.sunnerbo.nu/Sunnerbo-dombok-1699.s119?highlight=w%C3%A5k%C3%B6%C3%B6n

Göta Hovrätt - Advokatfiskalen Kronobergs län (G) EVIIAAAD:42 (1699-1700) Bild 1200 / sid 231 (AID: v206284.b1200.s231, NAD: SE/VALA/0382503)

Jon Trottesson buys 1/8 of Wåkön. The whole Wåkön is set to 1/4 mantal, so Jon buys half of it. To me that indicates that Gumme stands for the other half. The easy explanation is that he is the son of Jöns Hansson, and thus brother of Hans and Jöns younger. That might be supported by the fact that Carl in Byholma (who married Hans widow) was a witness of Gummes daughter - why would he be that if not "related".

On the other hand Jon buys half of Wåkön from Per Gudmundsson and Bengta Gudmundsdotter in Ormhult and Gunnel Gudmundsdotter, whoever they were and how they got their 1/8 part of Wåkön...

1676 the owner of Håkanhult wanted to pay less tax and thought that Wåkön should take over part of that responsibilty, or that he could take over part of Wåkön. Jöns and another part showed old document to prove his family had the tax rights since a long time and the court agreed.

/Yvonne

2020-09-08, 00:04
Svar #50

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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 Maybe Hans and Gudmund are both the sons of Jöns Jönsson (son of Jöns Hansson) and Trotte Jonsson is the son of Jon Trottesson.  :)

Thanks again,

Vicki

2020-09-08, 00:14
Svar #51

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Oh, I have a lot to learn, especially understanding how the properties divided, etc. and how the multiple families can live on the same property. I was looking at the naming and figured that, since we know that, Jon Trottesson owned property there, that Trotte Jonsson would likely be his son.  And the tax records for for 1693 and 1695 show a Jöns and wife with both a Hans and a Gudmund.  I thought maybe they were the sons of Jöns Jönsson (Hans named after his father's father) and Gudmund (?).  But, there are so many things to consider and I just don't have enough understanding yet.

I really appreciate your help,

Vicki

2020-09-08, 00:35
Svar #52

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Namewise Trotte Jonsson should be the son of Jon Trottesson.


As I wrote before 6 Sept 17.26 Jöns Hansson had security in a property in Torarp in Odensjö - that was in October 1704 so he was no doubt alive then... I think it was he who died 1713. The son Jöns we do not know what happened to, we know that the son Hans ended up living in Jöns Ebbesson's Skogaryd north farm in Annerstad and died there 1714.


/Yvonne

2020-09-08, 01:06
Svar #53

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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I was confused on that last part, incorrectly assuming that one of the Jöns listed in the tax records was the son of Hans Jönsson, Jöns Jönsson.  I had assumed that he lived there after inheriting property in Våkön from his grandfather:

 
Citera
Jöns Ebbasson in Skogaryd (Annerstad) signed his will there 9th of May 1692 whereby he gave his daughter's son Jöns Jönsson in Wåkön all of his remaining property

I am ultimately hoping to figure out how "my Gudmund" fits into the picture in Våkon.  I have trouble sorting out which Gumme/Gudmunds are related to the family and which are unrelated. 

I really appreciate your help,

Vicki


2020-09-08, 11:23
Svar #54

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Sorry if my swenglish translation confuses you. Jöns Ebbasson left all that was left after him in HALF the household (i e in Skogaryd in Annerstad, not Våkön) to his daughter's son Jöns. We do not know what happened to this Jöns as he is not to be seen anywhere in these books. He might even have died earlier or sold or moved away. Anyway (his brother) Hans Jönsson took over Skogaryd sometime between 1695 and 1701.



/Yvonne





2020-09-08, 15:58
Svar #55

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Your translations are very good and I appreciate your help.  I didn't initially understand that the property Jöns inherited was in Annerstad, not Våkön. 

I apologize for my error.  It may just be that I'm getting in too far over my head. :)

Maybe I just need to slow down.

Thanks for all you've done to help,

Vicki



2020-09-09, 02:23
Svar #56

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne,

I set this aside for the day and reviewed again this evening with a fresh mind. I think I finally see what you are trying to tell me. Before I write it, I want to review again in the morning.  I hope that it is finally sinking in.  :)

Regardless, I want you to know that I have really appreciated all that you have done to help my understanding.  I have learned a lot.

Thanks so much,

Vicki

2020-09-09, 22:50
Svar #57

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Yvonne,

This is my interpretation after further review.

Jöns Ebbasson had 2 daughters:
    One Jönsdotter married Jöns Hansson
    The other  Jönsdotter (Gunnil) married  the customs official.

Jöns Hansson and the first Jönsdotter (listed above) had 3 sons:
    Jöns (who had received inheritance in Annerstad from his mother's father)
    Hans (who married and moved to Skogaryd, Annerstad, raised a family and died there)
    Gudmund (my Gudmund) who eventually took over the father's farm in Våkön, married Kirstin Jönsdotter, had 3 daughters Karin, Ingebor and Kirstin.

It appears that Trotte is a Jonsson, not a Jönsson, and unrelated to Gudmund as far as I can tell.

I have to look into Gudmund's wife - Kirstin Jönsdotter, I don't see any connections here in any of the information.

I still have some loose ends to fit in, but I'd like to see if I have this right or not before adding those pieces.

Wow, the thing that makes it so difficult is the recurring name Jöns, no patronymics, and my lack of general knowledge.  It is very interesting and a lot of work.  Without your help and that of many others, I would be so totally lost, I would have reached a stopping point well before now.

Thanks so much for all the help!  If I'm still wrong, well, I guess I've reached the stopping point with this particular family.   :)

Vicki

2020-09-10, 10:53
Svar #58

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Vicki,


Yes, you have come to the same conclusion as I have, based on the available facts, except for one thing maybe.


I think that because of Jöns Ebbesson only leaving inheritance to one grandson, his daughter might only be the mother of that son. Perhaps Jöns Hansson was married before. I also think that Hans was the eldest, your Gumme the second, and Jöns the youngest. Jöns Hansson must have married 1671 about, and there would not have been much time to have a Jöns before a Hans. Hans was be the first mentioned son and first to marry.


What you do know is that Per Jönsson married Karin Gudmundsdotter and that her parents were Gudmund and Kirstin Jönsdotter, everthing beyond that is based on indications and assumptions. Confirming all this will take a long time going through old court books and, as you so rightly point out, one needs to know more about how property was transferred, name giving traditions locally etc. But it is fascinating! :-)


Good work!


/Yvonne




2020-09-10, 15:23
Svar #59

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne,

Thank you so much for this!

I'm glad you mentioned the order of the children Hans, Gumme and Jöns, because I wondered about that.  As I reviewed your information, it started to become more clear to me which Jöns  was which in the tax record timeline. 

I was a bit nervous you might view my response as being overly simplistic.  It actually took much thought and review to get  to that point.   The biggest mistake I made was to not ask more questions upfront.  This would have prevented me from making some incorrect assumptions which totally derailed my thinking.

It is very important to me to understand and, thereby, be able to defend my research.  I know that I will not know everything I want to know, but I want to learn as much as I can.

Again, I want to thank you for your help!  It is extremely fascinating!  I've learned so much and hope I haven't discouraged you from helping me!  The families that I'm working on now are the ones that I had set aside earlier because they were too difficult for my knowledge level at the time and hoped that I would, having learned more, be able to continue researching these families later with more success. This  family has been particularly difficult because of all the Jöns and Gummes.

Thank you again,

Vicki 

2020-09-10, 15:30
Svar #60

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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You're welcome, it has been fun to help. Good luck with your continued efforts! :-)
/Yvonne

2020-09-10, 21:22
Svar #61

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Hejsan Victoria


Have missed this discussion, which relates to some of my ancestors.


Jöns Hansson (1638-1713) was the son of Hans Nilsson in Våkön and Tyred Jönsdotter.


I have attached a draft (sorry in Swedish) of a chapter (Våkön) in a potential book about Vrå parish.


Regards, Lars-Ola, Halmstad

2020-09-10, 21:51
Svar #62

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Vicki,


I took the liberty of asking a question under the Vrå heading in this forum regarding innkeepers in Vrå named Hansson as I suspected a line between these families somehow. I think you got a lot more information here from Lars Ola to sort out:-)


Lars-Ola, were both Hans Nilsson's and Jöns Hansson's wives named Tyred Jönsdotter?


/Yvonne


2020-09-10, 22:48
Svar #63

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Yvonne


Hans Nilsson is mentioned in the tax records 1642-43 with a Tyred Jönsdotter (Nilsdotter in 1644).


Jöns Hansson is mentioned in a court record in 1707, with his wife Tya Jönsdotter.


I see that you have been discussing the court record from 1692, after Jöns Ebbessons death. The Jöns in Våkön is the son-in-law (Jöns Hansson) not a grandson to Jöns Ebbesson that is mentioned.


Regards,
Lars-Ola

2020-09-10, 23:20
Svar #64

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Thank you Lars-Ola, and what an impressive work you have done with your book so far.


If I recall correctly it was the will that was signed 1692 when Jöns Ebbesson was lying on his death bed. In the court case 1695 the will was confirmed. The wording in the protocol was:


Samma dagh för Retten framwistas och publice upplästes ett
Testamentsbref, gifwit och underskrefwit af Jöns Ebbasson i
Skogaryd, de Dato d 9 May 1692, uthi hwilckit han Teste-
menterar, skiäncker och gifwer sin dotterson Jöns Jönsson
i Wåköön, all den qwarlåtenskap af löhsören Jöns Ebbasson
uthi halfwa boet efter sigh lembna kan, hwilcket efter begie
ran uthi härads protocollo annoterat och in qvantum Juris
af Retten confirmerat blef.

I read the wording so that Jöns Ebbesson's grandson, his daughter Tyred Jönsdotter's (and Jöns Hanssons') son Jöns inherited, but then I have not read the original will. Whatever happened to Jöns I wonder.

Göta Hovrätt - Advokatfiskalen Kronobergs län (G) EVIIAAAD:40 (1694-1695) Bild 1980 / sid 67 (AID: v206256.b1980.s67, NAD: SE/VALA/0382503)

/Yvonne




2020-09-10, 23:31
Svar #65

Utloggad Lars-Ola Stare

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Thanks Yvonne


It looks like I have missed adding the record from 1695 to my database.


Sadly I have nothing further on Jöns Jönsson.


Regards,
Lars-Ola

2020-09-11, 02:46
Svar #66

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne and Lars-Ola,

Thank you so much for this information!  I didn't even realize there was an ongoing discussion! 

I will take a look at the information and likely will have questions! 

Thank you both for this!  Your help is very much appreciated!

Vicki

2020-09-11, 18:32
Svar #67

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne and Lars-Ola,

I am in the process of translating the information contained in the document from Lars-Ola.  It is very interesting!  Thank you again so much for this.

Once I have finished my translation, I will attach it for review to make sure I am understanding correctly!

What fun!

Thanks again!

Vicki

2020-09-11, 22:51
Svar #68

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne and Lars-Ola,

Attached is my translation of the document from Lars-Ola.  The areas in yellow are where I don't quite understand the text so any help with that would be great!  The green area is all the information I will be going through slowly to fill in some of the blanks.   :)

I want to say thank you again for this information.  It is fantastic!!  It brings history, the times and people to life. 

Thanks again!

Vicki



2020-09-12, 12:21
Svar #69

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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I have made some comments for you that I hope explains your question marks. I have not commented on the different words used for "hemman" and other kind of farms. That is a science of its owh how different types are taxed. Someone else could explain that much better.


The local court - "ting" - usually held sessions 4 times per year, spring, summer, autumn and winter - many variations exist locally. To me a "parliament" is normally a national assembly governing a country. "Instämd" is when you are sued and summoned to a court.


/Yvonne








2020-09-12, 23:26
Svar #70

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne,

Thanks so much reviewing my very rough translation (a combination of translation software and dictionaries)! 

Dollars! Yes, that was the translator!  I know better!   :)

I wasn't quite sure how to say the "tax books" or "local court sessions" so I have fixed those instances.

Also, I was not able to find any information on Älvsborgs lösens so your explanation was really interesting!   The money was basically used to buy back their castle?

The use of unmarried man vs. farmhand made more sense in the context of the entire sentence since it says that he was unmarried but was listed the following year with a wife.

The stag and hen parties!  I might have realized that is what it meant but I wasn't able to find it.

And, corset!  I would have never figured that out!

I have a few additional questions:

1)  "Nils ingick i en sexmanna ed 1640 , då den frikände Gudmund i Hjortseryd"  -  is this saying that Nils, as a member of a group of six men who acquitted....?  or does it mean he was part of a jury at a court session?

2)  "Vid ???tinget 1723  var Trotte instämd av länsmannen Petter Hultman, anklagad för slagsmål en söndag i Vrå gästgivaregård. Enligt vittnet Jöns Johansson i Vrå, hade gästgivaren Hammar tagit tag i Trotte och tumult uppstått. Trotte fick böta två gånger tre marker silvermynt."  I'm confused on this one - does it mean that the sheriff Petter H sued Trotte?  and that is why Trotte was fined?  What does "två gånger tre marker silvermynt" - that he was fined twice or that he was fined 2 x an amount?

3) "Besökaren från Lund i Skåhne, Henning Erlandzson, klagade till sin swåger Jöns Hanßon i Wåköön om något arff och hemgift, på sin hustrus Gunnil Jönsdotters wegnar, efter dess fader Jöns Ebbaßon i Skogaryd, påståendes att han det samma måtte mechtig blifwa" - Henning is saying that he should have control over his wife's inheritance??

Thank you again for all of this!  It really broadens my understanding of the time and place!

Vicki




 






2020-09-13, 11:19
Svar #71

Utloggad Yvonne Stenberg

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Vicki


1) In short, in old times an oath by a number of credible, respectable men could free an accused from a crime - in this case Gudmund in Hjortseryd was considered not guilty because of that. Another science of its own....

2) The sheriff summoned Trotte to court because someone (we do not know here if it was the sheriff himself or if he acted after someone else told the sheriff) had accused Trotte of fighting. He was fined for fighting. Mark (marker in plural) is another currency than daler. He had to pay 2x3 marker silver coins i e 6. There is an interesting webpage that explains currencies and values very well - and in English:

http://www.hhogman.se/monetary-system-sweden.htm

3) Yes, that is how I interpret it.

You can also read more about Älvsborgs lösen on many pages but you will need your translator. F ex Riksarkivet's pages has a short history and there you can also search in the tax lists - just as you can for the mantal taxes and the other tax books that you have searched in so far. Yet another science....

https://sok.riksarkivet.se/alvsborgs-losen

/Yvonne

2020-09-13, 15:11
Svar #72

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne,

Thank you very much for the further explanation, information and links!

I will check it all out! Fascinating!

Just curious, it looks like Lars-Ola is writing a book. Do you know what his book will cover?   Has he written before?  I don't know if he is continuing to follow this topic, but if so, maybe he will answer my question.

Thanks again for all you have done to help me with my research.  I really appreciate it!

Vicki





2020-09-13, 15:30
Svar #73

Utloggad Lars-Ola Stare

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Hejsan Victoria


Now that I have found this thread I am following it.


I have had an idea to write a book about the farms in Vrå parish until the time of the first house hold record (about 1790).
There is still 40-years of court records to read through (not digitalized yet) and some other records to check, and of course change the draft to a finished text with some pictures.


Family and work takes much of my time, so there is no timeframe at the moment.


Also "working" on transcribing court records on www.sunnerbo.com when I have a spare moment.


Regards, Lars-Ola, Halmstad
larsolaj@gmail.com[size=78%] [/size]

2020-09-13, 18:00
Svar #74

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Lars-Ola,

Your work is important and fascinating and thank you so much for sharing it with me.  You have taken on a very large task and I'm sure many, like me, will appreciate it immensely!

Thank you also to Yvonne, who took "the liberty of asking a question under the Vrå heading in this forum."  I would have not been able to connect with you on my own.

All your efforts are much appreciated,

Vicki

2020-09-17, 17:44
Svar #75

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yvonne and Lars-Ola,

Wow - what a lot of great information (which I'm still working on)!  I have a question about the exchange between the two of you on 2020-09-10 in regard to the Jöns in Våkon mentioned in the 1692 and 1695 court records.

I'm confused here about who really is the Jöns Hansson in Våkon. It seems, if I understand correctly, that the 1692 will states he is a son-in-law of Jöns Ebbesson, but the 1695 court case indicates he is a grandson of Jöns Ebbesson, his daughter's son.  If Jöns Hansson is a son-in-law of Jöns Ebbesson, who was he married to?

Your clarification on this point would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks a lot,

Vicki

2020-09-17, 20:47
Svar #76

Utloggad Lars-Ola Stare

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Hejsan Victoria


In the 1692 case, Jöns Hansson is mentioned as son-in-law to Jöns Ebbesson


In the 1695 case, it Jöns Ebbesson and his "daughter son" Jöns Jönsson that is mentioned.


Best guess is that Jöns Hansson is the father of Jöns Jönsson.


Regards,
Lars-Ola

2020-09-17, 20:56
Svar #77

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Hi Lars-Ola,

Thank you for this information!  What I have, then, is correct.  I mistakenly confused myself, but, I wanted to make sure what I have been documenting is correct and that what I've discovered already with Yvonne's assistance, fits together perfectly with your documentation.

Thank you so much for your quick response! 

Vicki

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