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Författare Ämne: Need help with soldier name  (läst 459 gånger)

2020-07-11, 02:39
läst 459 gånger

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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I am trying to determine whether Tor Nilsson on the 1756 tax record for Norrtorpa Millange, Torpa is the same person as Tor Forsberg on the 1758 tax record for Norrtorpa Millange, Torpa.

1756 record:
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840187?image=3300&page=647

1758 record:
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840189a?image=3500&page=685

It seems like they are the same person, but I can't find any information on Centrala Soldatregistret.   Maybe I'm not doing my search correctly. 

If anyone can find the patronymic name Tor Forsberg, it would be very helpful.

Thanks so much,

Vicki Cihla

2020-07-11, 08:04
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Utloggad Desirée Gran

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Hello Victoria,

I am not familiar with Torpa at all, but the thing with soldiers are that they often got, or took it depends, another last name. It seems like Tor got, or took, "Forsberg" (waterfall mountain) as last name. But I can not with 100 percent say that they are the same person, but most likely.

To be sure, you probably must look through armérullor (armé rolls) and tax rolls and see if one year a "Tor Nilsson Forsberg" may appear.

Kind regards,
Desirée

2020-07-11, 11:42
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Utloggad Ulf Svensson

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I just typed Forsberg Tor and got four hits, one very interresting.
There is a Tor/Tore Forsberg riding for a rusthåll in Hinnaryd.

  FORSBERG Tore Släktnamn:Född: 1725   Död: 1760   Antagen: 1755   Avsked: 1760    Aktnummer: SU-K5-0043-1755 Regemente: Smålands kavalleriregemente  Rote: Västra Tansjö   Kompani: SUNNERBO KOMPANI   Socken: HINNERYD   Torpnummer: SU-K5-0043



Here are the munster rolls:

1759: Generalmönsterrullor, Arkiv med löpande volymnumrering, SE/KrA/0023/0/855 (1759-1760), bildid: A0028871_00094

1760: Generalmönsterrullor, Arkiv med löpande volymnumrering, SE/KrA/0023/0/855 (1759-1760), bildid: A0028871_00341
 

2020-07-11, 15:02
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you very much for the very interesting and helpful replies!  i will look into all of this information! 

Will you send the link you used to search for Nils Forsberg?  Maybe I was doing it wrong because I didn't get any hits.

Thanks again,

Vicki Cihla

2020-07-11, 15:52
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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I found Tor Forsberg on the 1759 and 1760 muster rolls! 

If I read it correctly, it looks like he died in January 1760.  Is that correct?  I tried to find a death record in Hinneryd and in Torpa but found none.  Where would his death record be if he died while in military service?  It doesn't look like there is a cause of death listed on the muster roll.

The birth year conflicts with the birth year I have, but that is not uncommon.  The thing is, I can't find him on the tax rolls after 1760.  So it could still be him.  But I'm wondering why he seems to be from Hinneryd when he was in Torpa.  Is that unusual? Where any of the other Tor Forsberg's from Torpa?

So many questions! 

I appreciate your help and hope to find an answer to this puzzle.

Thanks again,

Vicki Cihla


2020-07-11, 16:40
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Utloggad Leif Lundkvist

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That Tor Forsberg died Jan 14 1760. As the church death records basically are burial records there are probably no records if he died away from his parish, maybe only a note in the household examinations, if there are any at that time. A soldier could represent one Rote but live somewhere else, that don't happen often, but it happens, strange when you comes upon those cases. Strange here is that there are two Ryttare at Millangården, both Tor Nilsson/Forsberg and Johan Bergenfelt, so Tor might live there but represent the Västra Tansjö in Hinneryd. Possible, but hard to prove. So far you have not found anything that contradicts this assumption.

2020-07-11, 16:46
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Utloggad Lennart Altin

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You can find Generalmönsterrullor on several places. Sweden was in war in Pommern between 1757 and 1762, and your Ryttare died in Pommern, probably i Stralsund. You need to know about the warhistory in Sweden. The year 1757 GMR can you find here…   https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0052258_00219#?c=&m=&s=&cv=218&xywh=508%2C480%2C2922%2C2316
https://historiesajten.se/krig.asp?sortering=fran

2020-07-11, 17:05
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Utloggad Ulf Svensson

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Here is the link I use in Centrala Soldatregistret.

Main page:
http://www.soldatreg.se/
Search page:
http://soldat.elektronikhuset.it/search.sv.aspx

My sesrch and result in the attached file.

2020-07-11, 17:38
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Wow!  Thank you both so much!  I will look at this information.  I have never been able to find a death record for Tor Nilsson, nad since he presumably became Forsberg I also checked for that and have found no death record.  There are no household records available for that timeframe, unfortunately. 

This is incredibly exciting to learn about this.   

Thanks again so much,

Vicki Cihla

2020-07-11, 18:31
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Utloggad Ulf Svensson

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Since Tor Forsberg died in Stralsund it might be har to find a death record. I don't know if any church records have survived in Stralsund or where they might be archived.
As you see in the 1759 roll he is sick in Stralsund and the horse was lost in jan.2.1759 so there might have been some action he participated in.
Since he owned(?) 1/8 of 1/2 mantal Mellangården there might be an estate inventory, bouppteckning, at the häradsrätt.

2020-07-11, 19:32
Svar #10

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you so much this additional information!   How did you know I was going to ask about what was written on the 1759 record?  :)

Good idea.  I had checked earlier under the name Tor Nilsson but could not find one.  Now I will check under Tor Forsberg.


I really appreciate the ongoing help. 

Thanks to all of you,

Vicki Cihla

2020-07-11, 22:28
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Lennart,

Thank you for sending the link to the historical information regarding Swedish wars, including the Pomeranian War.  An internet translator was quite helpful in giving me the background information I need to try to locate further detail on an English website.  It is very interesting and I look forward to learning more.

Thank you also for sending the link to the 1757 GMR. 

Can you or anyone else help me understand what this text is says?

https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0052258_00219#?c=&m=&s=&cv=218&xywh=508%2C480%2C2922%2C2316"

What I think it is saying:

Tansjö (Rote): The men listed at the top are those who are responsible for supplying the soldier with his military requirements suchs as guns and clothing, the previous ryttare died on 31 July 1755 and Nils Forsberg was inducted on 8 August (1755).   It says that Nils Forsberg is 32 years old and has been in military service for 2 years (as of 1757).  I can't remember what the 3rd column means. 

There are other columns also - do they apply specifically to Tor Forsberg or to all the names listed?

Any help with this would be very much appreciated.

Thanks again,

Vicki Cihla


2020-07-11, 22:43
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Utloggad Ulf Svensson

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The 3rd column says S, meaning he is from Småland.

Then there are two columns about the horse. Last column says that the horse is discarded but the man is approved.

2020-07-11, 22:47
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Interesting!   

So they are referring to when he was inducted? - that they took Nils into military service but not his horse? Would the men listed above need to supply his with another horse or where would he get it?

Thanks very much!

Vicki Cihla

2020-07-11, 23:36
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Utloggad Ulf Svensson

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Everything in the roll, except the note of Nilses induction, is relating to the actual examination of 1757.
At the 1757 general munster the horse vas 13 years old and had some problem that I can't read. The last column is the result of the munster of 1757.


The horse was provided by the rusthållare and was reviewed as well as the man and his equipment so that the army got what they required.

2020-07-11, 23:42
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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That is very interesting!  Thank you!

I think I may have the link I need for the Forsberg connection - see attached!  It is the death record in 1796 for the wife (Maria) of Tor Nilsson's eldest son Jöns.  The family is still living at Norrtorpa Millange, Torpa, Kronoberg.

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30194?image=231

What do you think?

Thanks for your ongoing help!

Vicki Cihla

2020-07-12, 01:08
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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As it turns out I have numerous records where Tor's eldest son, Jöns, alternatively used the name Jöns Torsson and Jöns Forsberg.  He used Forsberg on his marriage record, some of his children's birth records, as a witness at his niece's baptism, etc.

I believe that Tor Nilsson is Tor Forsberg.   :)

Thank you SO MUCH for everyone's help!  I've been able to learn so many interesting things!

Vicki Cihla

2020-07-12, 01:41
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Utloggad Leif Lundkvist

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Yes, here he is Jöns Thorsson in Torpa (G) AI:2 (1784-1800) Bild 162 / sid 307 (AID: v19647.b162.s307, NAD: SE/VALA/00381) but at the same time Jöns Forsberg in that death record. In this thread a Nils Forsberg is mentioned, an error, it is all about Tor(e) Forsberg. A new horse had to be supplied by the farmers in the Rote, the "Rusthåll" = Armament suppliers. So far, you have no final proof that the Tor Forsberg at Millangården is the same as the soldier for Tansiö, but nothing contradicts that it is correct?

In Torpa (G) AI:2 (1784-1800) Bild 17 / sid 19 (AID: v19647.b17.s19, NAD: SE/VALA/00381) Jöns Thorsson is born 1745, is that correct?

2020-07-12, 01:53
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yes, I was thinking the same after my initial exuberance.  :)  There is no estate inventory record under either name (Nilsson or Forsberg) and he was in the military for only very short time.  The military records don't contain his patronymic name.  There are no household records available for the time he served. His children were all born before he became a soldier.  Not sure what else there is to check.  I don't think I will be able to find definitive proof.  Any other suggestions? 

If not, I learned a ton along the way.  :)

And, I continue to be very appreciative of all the help I've received!

Vicki Cihla


2020-07-12, 02:34
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yes, it confusion about Nils Forsberg was my error - I meant Tor Forsberg.

This has been an interesting line to follow. 

Tor Nilsson was born in Hylte, Odensjö in 1718 and in 1743 he married Pernilla Jönsdotter b. 1722 in Grimshult, Annerstad.

Odensjö-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-36-Page-65  (1718 birth record for Tor Nilsson)
Annerstad-G-CI-1-1708-1750-Image-24-Page-43   (1722 birth record for Pernilla)
Annerstad-G-CI-1-1708-1750-Image-41-Page-77   (1743 marriage record)

Their first child, Jöns, was born in 1744 in Grimshult, Annerstad.  Annerstad-G-CI-1-1708-1750-Image-103-Page-201
The rest of their children were born in Norrtorpa Millange, Torpa:




2020-07-12, 02:59
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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I was unclear what you were asking in your last question, but you're correct, the only thing that will absolutely prove that they are the same man is if I can find a record that shows the name Tor(e) Nilsson Forsberg.

Thanks for your help,

Vicki Cihla

2020-07-12, 03:24
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Utloggad Leif Lundkvist

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Have you checked the tax records in Hinneryd?


There are actually communion records for Tansjö 1755 and 1756 in Hinneryd (G) DII:1 (1751-1774) Bild 105 / sid 19 (AID: v32895.b105.s19, NAD: SE/VALA/00133). No record of a Tor Forsberg there as far as I can see, and it looks like they really note their soldiers in that record. Still no proof but at least there is not another Tor Forsberg easily found there.

2020-07-12, 03:32
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you for this - I'll take a look!  It would be great to find something.

Thanks for your ongoing help,

Vicki Cihla

2020-07-12, 05:54
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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I looked at the tax records for Hinneryd but did not find him.  I reviewed the tax records I had for him and noticed something interesting.  This is a recap.

Beginning with the first tax record in Torpa he is listed as follows:

1749  Norrtorpa Millange, Torpa  Tor Nilsson  Ryttare   
  https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840180?image=1700&page=327
1750  Norrtorpa Millange, Torpa  Tor Nilsson  Ryttare
   https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840181c?image=2640&page=515
1751  Norrtorpa Millange, Torpa  Tor Nilsson  Ryttare
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840182c?image=2850&page=551
1752  Norrtorpa Millange, Torpa  Tor Nilsson  Ryttare
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840183c?image=2830&page=553
1754  Norrtorpa Millange, Torpa  Tor Nilsson
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840185?image=3220&page=633
1755  Norrtorpa Millange, Torpa  Tor Nilsson
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840186?image=3180&page=625
1756  Norrtorpa Millange, Torpa  Tor Nilsson  Ryttare
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840187?image=3300&page=647
1757  Norrtorpa Millange, Torpa  Tor Nilsson  Ryttare
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840188?image=3260&page=631
1758  Norrtorpa Millange, Torpa  Tor Forsberg  Ryttare
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840189a?image=3500&page=685
1759  Norrtorpa Millange, Torpa  Tor Forsberg  Ryttare
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840190?image=3040&page=591
1760  Norrtorpa Millange, Torpa  Tor Forsberg  Ryttare
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840191a?image=3530&page=681
No more tax records for him after 1760.

So, if he was listed as a Ryttare at least from 1749 to 1752, shouldn't there be a record for that time also?  I believe he was living in Annerstad before that so I'll have to check to see if he was listed even earlier.  But, even so, it appears he was using his patronymic name.  I'll look further to see if there's anything else I can find out about his military time.

Thanks again for your help,

Vicki Cihla

2020-07-12, 15:44
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Utloggad Kristina Gunnarsdotter

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A minor remark to the name Mellangården/Millangården: Mellan/Millan means middle. Gård is farm, same root as yard. The abbreviation is Mellang. There is no e at the end. What looks like an e is an abbreviation mark.

2020-07-12, 16:09
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thanks for that information!

Here is the correction:

I looked at the tax records for Hinneryd but did not find him.  I reviewed the tax records I had for him and noticed something interesting.  This is a recap.

Beginning with the first tax record in Torpa he is listed as follows:

1749  Norrtorpa Mellang, Torpa  Tor Nilsson  Ryttare   
  https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840180?image=1700&page=327
1750  Norrtorpa Mellang, Torpa  Tor Nilsson  Ryttare
   https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840181c?image=2640&page=515
1751  Norrtorpa Mellang, Torpa  Tor Nilsson  Ryttare
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840182c?image=2850&page=551
1752  Norrtorpa Mellang, Torpa  Tor Nilsson  Ryttare
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840183c?image=2830&page=553
1754  Norrtorpa Mellang, Torpa  Tor Nilsson
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840185?image=3220&page=633
1755  Norrtorpa Mellang, Torpa  Tor Nilsson
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840186?image=3180&page=625
1756  Norrtorpa Mellang, Torpa  Tor Nilsson  Ryttare
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840187?image=3300&page=647
1757  Norrtorpa Mellang, Torpa  Tor Nilsson  Ryttare
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840188?image=3260&page=631
1758  Norrtorpa Mellang, Torpa  Tor Forsberg  Ryttare
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840189a?image=3500&page=685
1759  Norrtorpa Mellang, Torpa  Tor Forsberg  Ryttare
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840190?image=3040&page=591
1760  NorrtorpaMellang, Torpa  Tor Forsberg  Ryttare
    https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v840191a?image=3530&page=681
No more tax records for him after 1760.

So, if he was listed as a Ryttare at least from 1749 to 1752, shouldn't there be a record for that time also?  I believe he was living in Annerstad before that so I'll have to check to see if he was listed even earlier.  But, even so, it appears he was using his patronymic name.  I'll look further to see if there's anything else I can find out about his military time.

Update: I'm still looking for where Tor Nilsson was living prior to Norrtorpa Mellang. His first child, Jöns, was born in Grimshult, Annerstad in 1744, which is where his mother is from.

Thanks again for your help,

Vicki Cihla
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2020-07-12, 17:26
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Utloggad Lennart Altin

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When Tor Nilsson married in Annerstad socken 1743 he is from Odensjö socken and Hylte. His birth….   https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0025512_00044#?c=&m=&s=&cv=43&xywh=3290%2C1699%2C2553%2C2079

2020-07-12, 17:39
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you for sending this.  I have that information but didn't include in case it just created more confusion.  Yes, he was from Hylte in Odensjö parish.   He married a girl from (her father was soldier Jöns Persson Thelin) Grimshult in Annerstad and they had their first child there.  I cannot track him between the time his child was born in May 1744 and 1749 when he shows up in Norrtorpa Mellang., Torpa.    By the time he appears in Norrtorpa Mellang he was already listed as Ryttare.  This is very confusing.  Did he have two different time in the military?  or is it not the same person?  I have been searching the most obvious places in Odensjö and Annerstad but haven't found him yet.   Later today I will go through them more carefully for those "missing" years in hopes of finding him somewhere.

Thank you for your ongoing help!  I really appreciate it,

Vicki Cihla

2020-07-13, 17:14
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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I found Tor Nilsson listed in the tax rolls as ryttare in 1748 in Forsa, Torpa and from 1749 through 1752 in Norrtorpa Mellang, Torpa.  So it he was enlisted for those 5 years as ryttare.  I cannot find a record under the name Tor Nilsson in the Soldatregistret and I don't know whether he adopted a different surname.

Does this soldier register contain the names of all soldiers?  If not, is there any way I could determine where he was in the military 1748-1752? 

Thanks for any help with this,

Vicki Cihla

2020-07-13, 18:39
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Utloggad Ulf Svensson

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Just a longshot.


Hav you tried just searching by parish? No name.


2020-07-13, 21:07
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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I may have stated my question poorly.

I know where he was living, according to the tax records. Tor Nilsson is listed in the tax rolls as ryttare in and from 1749 through 1752 in Norrtorpa Mellang, Torpa. He was not listed as ryttare in 1747 so he was enlisted for 5 years from 1749 through 1752.

However, his name is always listed using his patronymic name and I cannot find his name on the soldier register. 

There are no household records available for that time frame.  His son Per was born in 1750.  His son's birth record lists Tor's patronymic name.  I noticed that one of the baptismal witnesses is Johan Bergenfelt who was also listed as ryttare (his name right below Tor Nilson's name) on the 1750 tax record for Norrtorpa Mellang, Torpa.  There are a couple listings for Johan Bergenfelt (not for that exact time frame though) and neither are for Torpa (not that it had to be there).

My question is - are names missing from Centrala Soldatregistret?  There must be a record somewhere for him!   If so, knowing the timeframe of his service, would it be feasible to find his name by just looking through the GMR for those years for SUNNERBO or is there another option?  I know where he was living, but not were he was serving. 

May another possibility is he was in the same regiment as he was later?  Not sure how likely that might be.  I'm afraid I know very little about the military generally, especially at that time.  Was it common for soldier to serve for specific time frames, such as 5 years?  And then to re-enlist after a period of several years? 

I'm open for suggestions on how to research it.  This person I know is Tor Nilsson!  Thanks for any help with this,

Vicki Cihla




2020-07-13, 22:14
Svar #31

Utloggad Kristina Gunnarsdotter

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Centrala Soldatregistret is far from complete. Will it ever be? How would you know when it is? It is an ongoing project. When you find soldiers who are not registered, report them to:
soldat@soldatreg.se

2020-07-13, 22:33
Svar #32

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you for that information - What information do you need to provide when reporting?  Name, years of military service, where he was living?  Anything else?   No sense reporting something without enough helpful information they need.
Thanks,

Vicki Cihla

2020-07-13, 22:44
Svar #33

Utloggad Kristina Gunnarsdotter

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I have only reported a couple of soldiers that I found in various household examinations. The source is what I provided.
Here is some info on the register (in Swedish):

Databasen gör inte anspråk på att vara fullständig, forskning pågår hela tiden och nya soldater förs till de tidigare registrerade samt nya uppgifter om soldaterna och den närmaste familjen.

Om Du har uppgifter om indelta soldater tar vi tacksamma emot dessa, var dock noga med att återge ARKIVSIGNUM när Du sänder oss materialet. 

Tänk också på att vi hela tiden får in uppgifter om soldater,


2020-07-13, 22:55
Svar #34

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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As you probably guessed I don't speak Swedish (which is why I'm on the English page), so I'm sorry if you're offended by my lack of knowledge.  It would have been very kind and easy to have just said "the database is incomplete.'  I get it.

I will report what I know.


2020-07-13, 23:37
Svar #35

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Kristina,

As you suggested, I have reported the soldier "Tor Nilsson" as a soldier who is not yet registered to soldat@soldatreg.se and provided them with all the information I have for him.

Thanks for your help,

Vicki Cihla

2020-07-13, 23:57
Svar #36

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Update: I have looked for the Kronoberg GMR and the Småland GMR listings that are available on AD and Riksarkivet and I don't find any that cover the years I am looking for (1748-1752).  There was only one that I could find, Generalmönsterrullor - Kronobergs regemente 338, which stated it contained 1744-1760, but was actually only 1744, 1759 and 1760.

Lennart Altin had mentioned that the GMR records are available in multiple places - might they have books that are not available on AD or Riksarkivet?

Otherwise, I have gone as far as I can with Mr. Tor Nilsson's military service.  I have reported his name to Centrala Soldatregistret and maybe later more information will become available.

Thanks,

Vicki Cihla


2020-07-14, 00:59
Svar #37

Utloggad Ulf Svensson

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Sorry for confusing the discussion earlier, I still had my mind at the search issue in Centrala Soldatregistret.

I think Lennart Altin refered to 'Army rolls' under the drop-down 'Select extended search'.

I did a search in the National Archives Database for 'Smålands kavalleriregemente' and came up with over 6700 archives with all kinds of documents. So yes, there is a lot of material that not yet been digitalized. No further analyze done.


Just for clarification, Kronobergs regemente was the infantry, no ryttare.

Let's hope he shows up, digitalized, later on.

2020-07-14, 02:10
Svar #38

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thanks alot for looking into that!  Yes, I do hope that it shows up at some point.  Tor Nilsson has been very challenging for lots of reasons. 

He was born in Odensjö, married in Annerstad, lived and raised his family in Torpa and, and if he turns out to be the same man as Tor Forsberg, he served in Hinneryd.   :) 

But,  I'll start working on another family!

I really enjoy researching my family and learning as much about them as I can. and I continue to be very grateful to all those who are willing to help me.  I can't thank you all enough for sharing your knowledge and time (and enthusiasm) to help me! 

For the record, I have spent many, many hours working with the LDS transcribing records (birth, death, marriage, military, immigration, citizenship, etc.) to help others locate and learn more about their families.  I know that it takes a lot of time to help, but I also understand how much it means to those people. 

Thanks again for your ongoing help, everyone!

Vicki Cihla


 

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