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Författare Ämne: Need translation confirmation for marriage record and birth record  (läst 340 gånger)

2020-04-26, 22:29
läst 340 gånger

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Can someone confirm that I have translated the attached marriage and birth record correctly?  I also have a question on that marriage record regarding the groom (outlined in yellow)

Marriage record:
May 29, 1763 marriage between (what is this word?) Lars Pårsson from Slättevrå and Elin Andersdotter from Stråhult.

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=11
Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-11-Page-15

Birth record:
Elin in Stråhult was born on 30 December (1745) and baptized on 5 Jan (1746). father Anders, mother Karin.  (The names of the witnesses are difficult to read)

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=65
Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-65-Page-121

Any help would be much appreciated!

Thank you,

Vicki Cihla

2020-04-26, 22:45
Svar #1

Utloggad Ulf Svensson

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#1 Klåckaren = klockaren = sexton
#2 Knut i Bjärseryd, Jon i Gudmundstorp(?) och Jon Persson i Broddhult. Hustru Anna i Singsjö, ??, h Kerstin och h Elsa i Vrå.
A few questionmarks. I hope someone else can help you out.
The rest is OK.

//Uffe S.

2020-04-26, 23:20
Svar #2

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you so much for confirming what I had translated!  Very interesting that he is a sexton - I just looked it up and apparently that is a grave digger - is that how you understand it?   

I have found the record of his first child (attached) - I think it also lists him as being a sexton.  Will you again take a look at my translation. especially the words outlined in yellow?   

Birth record:

Pehr born in Stråhult born 22 Oct, baptized 28 same, father Sexton Lars Pehrsson (not sure what this word is), mother Eling Andersdotter, Witnesses: Anders Nilsson in Singsjö, Hans Andersson (not sure what ibi dem means), Nils Swensson? in ?, ? Catharina Lingh in Wrå, Maling Pårsdotter in Singsjö, Ingierd ?dotter in Ljunghult.

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=89
Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-89-Page-167

Thanks much for any help with this,

Vicki Cihla


2020-04-26, 23:50
Svar #3

Utloggad Anti Poika

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Marriage record:
Pärsson. Please do not call our Perssons Pårsson/Poorsson!

Birth record 1:

Faddr. Knut i Biärseryd, Jan Gudmundsson
och Jon Persson i Broddhult; h. Anna
i Singsiö, hustru(?!), h. Kirstin och h. Elsa i Vrå

Birth record 2:
Sundberg
ibidem, the same place
Åkerbergshult
Samuels dotter
Maling Pärs dotter

I do not understand sexton as mainly a grave digger. I see him as a clerk. The word klockare seems to be connected to the word klocka/bell and the sexton also is a bell ringer.
Mvh Anti

2020-04-26, 23:56
Svar #4

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you for this information.  I apologize for still confusing the Pår... with Pär...

Your help is much appreciated,

Vicki Cihla

2020-04-27, 00:00
Svar #5

Utloggad Anti Poika

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Mvh Anti

2020-04-27, 00:26
Svar #6

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Yes  :) but I still get mixed up when trying to read the handwriting.

2020-04-27, 01:59
Svar #7

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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A couple of follow up questions:

On the birth record for first child Pehr - the father is named as Klåckaren Lars Pehrsson Sundberg.  The only time I've seen an additional name (such as Sundberg) added to or replacing a patronymic name is when the person is a soldier.    I don't see any indication he is a soldier.  Could there be another reason?

Also, the only time i've seen the title of Klåckaren used is when he was living in Vrå parish.  This makes me think it was a position related to that parish.  Maybe a bell ringer, as you mentioned, would be more correct or maybe a clerk.  Would that have been a position he held in addition to farming? Would it have been a paid or skilled position?  Was it an appointment or how did one come by this title?  If it was significant enough to be mentioned on vital records, I'd like to understand the meaning of it.

I've attached the birth record again.

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=89
Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-89-Page-167

If anyone else has anything more to add to help me better understand this record, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks so much,

Vicki Cihla

2020-04-27, 10:05
Svar #8

Utloggad Ulf Svensson

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The base rule was that you could take any name you wanted, at any time. You just got it registred at the parish. I am not sure of all restrictions over time but you couldn't take a nobleman name.
In most cases names was added to mark out that you was something but a farmer, soldier, craftsman or klockare.

Klockare will be found in every parish. He was responsible for for the ringing, teaching and some admin in the parish. It could also be included to play the organ. I think the payment varied from parish to parish. In some places you can find 'Klockaregården' or 'Klockarebol' as the homestead for the sexton. In some parishes the payment was in hard cash.

The position required skills stated by the authorities and the sexton was employed by the parish. It was an important position in the society so it was significant to mark out.

Please come back for further clarifications.
//Uffe S.

2020-04-27, 15:12
Svar #9

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you very much, Ulf, for this interesting information! 

I want to know more than just names, dates and places.  So, this information is very helpful in understanding more about the life of the people at the time and which I always very much appreciate!
.
What you said about the position makes sense now.  It explains why, after leaving the parish where he was sexton, he is no longer listed as sexton (at his new parish).   

I'm still puzzled about his appending the name Sundberg to his patronymic name.  I only see it used once in the records.   Could it be a mistake?   Is Sundberg a place and not a name he used?   Is there somewhere else I could look to verify this name?  I still don't really understand why he would have done this.  If he was doing this just to differentiate himself from another person with the same name, I would have thought it would have continued throughout the records.   Or maybe, after he moved to another parish, he didn't find it necessary to use it?  What are your thoughts?

Any further information you can offer - or anyone else can offer - would be most welcome!

Thank again,

Vicki Cihla

2020-04-27, 15:41
Svar #10

Utloggad Ulf Svensson

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The name Sundberg is a construction of words from nature, not a place. 'Sund', meaning strait, and 'berg' meaning mountain. Why he added it is propably a secret he took with him in to the grave.
Have you checked the tax records?
I think he didn't have use of name when he left the job as sexton.

//Uffe S

2020-04-27, 16:32
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Utloggad Ulf Svensson

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Sorry, got interrupted by work...
Since the Sundberg was just an add-on, his name was Lars and he was the son of Per, I think it was quite easy for him to skip it when left the job as sexton. This habit is often seen among soldiers, when they leave the military they stop using the soldier name.

Maybe he risked to be seen as a snob using Sunberg as a common farmer? One must remember that family names in those days were used by only a few percent of the population.

//Uffe S.

2020-04-27, 19:19
Svar #12

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you!

That is all very interesting!  Sounds like it probably wasn't a mistake in the records?  So, I'll probably never know!  But, I will check the tax records later today to see if I can find anything - that is a bit of a project for me since I'm not good yet at navigating those records.  Should  Istart with the year I know that he used Sundberg? 

Thanks so much,

Vicki Cihla

2020-04-27, 19:35
Svar #13

Utloggad Ulf Svensson

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That will be a good start but remember that the record was set-up in november the year before valid-year.


By the way, it is still the same today. I pay my tax for 2020 where I was registred nov 1 2019
//Uffe S.

2020-04-27, 20:36
Svar #14

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Good point!  I will keep that in mind!

Thanks,

Vicki Cihla

2020-04-27, 23:14
Svar #15

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Well, the tax records for Wrå 1763, 1764, 1765 did not show Sundberg at all that I could find.  It is possible I missed something since I'm not very good at these records.  But, that's ok, I'll move on for now.

Thanks again for your help,

Vicki Cihla

2020-04-27, 23:21
Svar #16

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Just a note that I'm updating Pår/Pårsson to Pär/Pärsson in my database.  ;D 

Vicki Cihla

2020-04-27, 23:43
Svar #17

Utloggad Ulf Svensson

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2020-04-27, 23:46
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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