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Författare Ämne: Help with estate inventory  (läst 782 gånger)

2020-04-09, 23:35
läst 782 gånger

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Today I found an estate inventory record that appears to contain a lot of useful information about places and family relationships to the person who died.  I already have a lot of information about these people but want to cross check what I have and add to it as required for further research.  Because it is so difficult to read the handwriting, and because I'd like to learn as much as I can from this information, I am at a loss as to how to ask for help.  I'm not including the document here because I am not looking for someone to translate it for me.  How can I get help without asking too much?.  Should I ask questions about individuals separately and offer what I already know?  Should I ask about the names I see that I don't know anything about?  Should I say what I think it might say? 

Any help on this would really be appreciated,

Vicki Cihla


2020-04-10, 00:17
Svar #1

Utloggad Leif Lundkvist

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Well, you could give a reference to the source and your interpretation of the text, with ? where you need help.

2020-04-10, 00:34
Svar #2

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you for your response.  I'll try that.  I will do my best and see how it goes.  I'm afraid there will be alot of ? in places.  :)

Vicki Cihla

2020-04-10, 01:20
Svar #3

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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The estate inventory document for Erik Nilsson is located at:
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v76213?image=46

I will start at the beginning and give you an overview of what I understand it to mean (not word for word):

Erik Nilsson died on January 10, 1785 in Mäste (in Vrå, Kronoberg). An estate inventory has been done for the benefit the survivors of Erik Nilsson of Måste.  He is survived by his wife, Segrit Nilsdotter, 2 sons and ? daughters.  (I know he had 2 sons and 5 daughters) after that - it looks like he is talking about a son and a daughter but I don't know how they fit in.

I've attached a copy of this part (circled in yellow) that I don't understand.   If you can help in any way, that would be great. 

Thanks so much,

Vicki Cihla.




2020-04-10, 02:22
Svar #4

Utloggad Leif Lundkvist

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The inventory was made up on Jan 10 1785, Eric had died before that, it don't say when. He left 6 children, 2 sons and four daughters, had one died before him? Then, in your marked section, it say one son and one daughter was already dead, and that their children (Eric's grandchildren) are heirs in their place, but I am not sure if it was two of those six (probably) or two more, so either you have missed one son or have one daughter too much.

2020-04-10, 03:55
Svar #5

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you!  That is very interesting.   His death record shows that he died in January 1, 1785.  It looks like they did an inventory very soon after his death. I know 1 of the 5 daughters had died before he died so I must be missing one son - I will look into that. 

i really appreciate this!  I will have more questions, after looking into this.

Vicki Cihla

2020-04-10, 15:04
Svar #6

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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My next question involve a section about Pår Nilsson in Håkanshult, who I think is Erik's brother.  I think it also concerns Pår's son and daughter in Hyhult, Jon and Kierstin.  But, I cannot tell what it is saying about them.  Is any of this correct?

Again, I've attached the section I'm referring to - circled in yellow and sending the link for the AD page on which is appears.

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v76213?image=46

Thanks so much for your help with this!!  it is very interesting!

Vicki Cihla

2020-04-11, 00:53
Svar #7

Utloggad Leif Lundkvist

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For the widow and for those grandchildren, Pär Nilsson in Håkanshult became trustee/parent and he was Eric's brother. Then I don't understand everything and it don't make sense for me. My interpretation is that the inventory was made up in Hyhult and that Pär's son and daughter were there and were authoritative, which seem a bit strange. Then it is listing Eric's children which indeed should be there. I hope someone better than me should read it.

2020-04-11, 02:30
Svar #8

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you for this.  I was curious about why Pär's children were mentioned and how they fit into the picture.  Until this document, I did not know Erik had a brother Pär. 

If anyone can add anything to what Leif has kindly translated, I would really appreciate the additional help with this.

Maybe the next part of the document will shed more light on it.  It is confusing.

Thanks, Leif, for your continued help!

Vicki Cihla

2020-04-11, 11:31
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Utloggad Erik Mouwitz

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Hi!


This is my transcription and approximate translation of the marked area in your picture:


"                                                           närwarande
woro tilstädes den aflednes änka, för hwilken Pär
Nilson i Håkanhult blef målsman Som är des broder,
för den aflednes Sone barn uti Hyhult war deras
förmyndare tilstädes, äfwen den aflednas doter barn
uti Wigåsa dräng Jon Pärson Siälf myndig ock ock
doteren Kiärstin Pärsdoter i Wigåsa gift ock myndig.
De öfrig barn Sonen Nils Erikson i Mästa och doteren Kiärstin Eriks
doter i Emeboda Samt doteren Pernila Eriksdoter i
Skaftaryd äro Siälfe myndiga, men yngsta doteren
Elin Eriksdoter är än ogift: för hänne anslogs til
förmyndare des Slächting å faderens Sida Gudmun
Swänson i Kränkeboda: hwarop änkan och barnen
förmantes att ägendomen Redeligen upgifwa som
då upgafs ock befants Som fölier Nembl. "


"Present were the decedents widow, for whom Pär Nilson in Håkanhult was made guardian, who is her brother. The guardian for his sons children in Hyhult was present, also his daughters children in Wigåsa: Jon Pärson and Kiärstin Pärsdotter in Wigåsa, married and of age [that is, not in need of a guardian].
The rest of the children are the son Nils Eriksson in Mästa and and the daughter Kiärstin Eriksdotter in Emmaboda and the daughter Pernilla Eriksdotter in Skaftaryd who are also of age, but the youngest daughter Elin Eriksdotter is still unmarried: for her, her relative on her fathers side Gudmund Svensson in Kränkeboda was made guardian. Whereupon the widow and children were admonished to truthfully declare the estate, which was as follows:"


I'm not sure that I have transcribed all the place names correctly, since I am not familiar with the particular region.


Regards
Erik

2020-04-11, 16:21
Svar #10

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you both so much!  It is still a bit confusing.  Is Pär Nilson Erik's brother or Segrid's brother?  :)  Both Erik and Segrid's fathers were named Nils! 

I'll dig into all of this information and see what I can learn!  I'll let you know if I have more questions!

Again,  I really appreciate all the help you've given,

Vicki Cihla

2020-04-13, 01:44
Svar #11

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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More questions - I'm still trying to figure out some of the family relationships, trying to understand which son and daughter died and left grandchildren to care for.   This confuses me because it seems to assume that both parents have died (the son or daughter/and their spouse).  Why would they need a trustee for the widow and these grandchildren?  Maybe someone can help me to understand. 

The first page of the estate inventory mentions 6 children; 2 sons and 4 daughters and mentions also that 1 son and 1 daughter died leaving grandchildren to inherit in their place (if I understood correctly).  I have birth records for 8 children.  Two daughters died young, ages 11 and 12 - these 2 obviously would not have been married and had families.  With those 2 removed from the equation, there are 6 left:  2 sons and 4 daughters.  I know for sure 4 of them were alive at that time, but I can't find any proof that the others had married and then died leaving any children.  I'm trying to use the names and places listed on the estate inventory to locate the families in the household exam records, which are unavailable until 1788 in Vrå, just after both Erik and his widow, Segrid, have died.

Can anyone tell me if the people identified on the last page of the inventory are those who were present at the inventory?
I am particularly interested in the name Per Eriksson from Viggåsa (this would be in Annerstad parish) because he would be one of the children who I am not sure about.  If he was still alive in 1785, then he could not be the son who died leaving children.

Also, any help with the attached highlighted paragraph that precedes the list of names would be very helpful.

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v76213?image=48
Sunnerbo-häradsrätt-G-FII-8-1785-1787-Image-48-Page-85

I would really appreciate any further help I can get with this.

Thanks much,

Vicki Cihla


2020-04-13, 09:54
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Utloggad Kalle Birgersson

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The text in the yellow box is an oath to not hide anything for this inventory. Nothing in it to help identify anyone.

2020-04-13, 10:35
Svar #13

Utloggad Kalle Birgersson

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Ok, lets see if we can make any sense of this. The people in this inventory are:

Segrit (Sigrid) Nilsdotter, the widow. Represented by her brother Per Nilsson in Håkanshult
Six children of wich four are still alive: 
Nils Eriksson in Mästa 
Kerstin Eriksdotter en Emeboda 
Pernilla Eriksdotter in Skaftaryd 
Elin Eriksdotter, unmarried and represented by her relative on her fathers side Gudmund Svensson in Kränkeboda 
Dead daughters children farmhand Jon Persson in Wigåsa and Kerstin Persdotter in Wigåsa, that was married to Per Eriksson 
Dead son's children, as it appaers Elin Larsdotter in Hishult? Not totally clear.

2020-04-13, 14:21
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you so much!  You have cleared up much of the confusion.  First, you have confirmed that Per Nilsson is the brother of Segrid, not Erik.  Secondly, you have clearly indicated which are the grandchildren in this matter.  Jon and Kerstin are not Per Nilsson's children, but are the children of a Per Eriksson.

Where I am still confused is regarding this piece:

"Dead daughters children farmhand Jon Persson in Wigåsa and Kerstin Persdotter in Wigåsa, that was married to Per Eriksson
Dead son's children, as it appears Elin Larsdotter in Hishult? Not totally clear."

The two children that I think may be the son and daughter who died are: Per Eriksson and Catharina Eriksdotter, respectively.  But this raises the questions:

1. If Per Eriksson was the son who died, then the children Jon Persson and Kerstin Persdotter could be his surviving children, not the daughter's children.   But when I saw the name Per Eriksson (noted on the last page as PES) I thought that meant he was still living at the time of the estate inventory, then he couldn't be the son that died.  The other explanation could be that his daughter, Catharina, married someone with the same name as her brother,  Per Eriksson, which could happen, but unlikely.   I'll look for the birth records for Jon Persson and Kerstin Persdotter (in Wigåsa) to see if I can determine who the parents are.

2.  Catharina is still a mystery - she isn't mentioned anywhere - I can't find a marriage record or a death record for her so far.  It is possible that she married a Lars - then, maybe Elin Larsdotter is her surviving child?  This family is spread out over three different parishes Vrå, Torpa and Annerstad so it has been really helpful to see where they were living at the time of their father's death. In this case, I can start looking in Hishult?

It is starting to make more sense to me and gives me another a starting point for more research - I may have more questions for you!

Thanks to all of you who have been helping me with this!

You help is very much appreciated,

Vicki Cihla

2020-04-13, 14:27
Svar #15

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Kalle,

Can you confirm that Per Eriksson (PES), who is listed on the last page, is alive at the time of the inventory?  Or doesn't it mean that he was still living?

Thanks so much!

Vicki Cihla


2020-04-13, 17:28
Svar #16

Utloggad Kalle Birgersson

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Kalle,

Can you confirm that Per Eriksson (PES), who is listed on the last page, is alive at the time of the inventory?  Or doesn't it mean that he was still living?

Thanks so much!

Vicki Cihla
Per Eriksson should be alive. You have this line in the first part of the inventory: "för den afledneas sonebarn uti Hijshult war deras förmyndare tilstädes, äfwen den afledneas doterbarn uti Wigåsa dräng Jon Pärsson  siälf myndig och och doteren Kiärstin Pärsdoter i Wigåsa gift och myndig."

It can be translated to "for the deads (Erik Nilssons) son-children in Hishult was their trustee present, also the deads daughter-children in Wigåsa, farmhand Jon Pärsson, him self "myndig" and the daughter Kärstin Pärsdotter, married and "myndig". (I don't know how to translate myndig, but they were old enough to not need any trustee)
I think that line explaines most of what you are confused about. The dead son, what ever his name was, lived in Hishult. The dead daughter lived in Wigåsa/Viggåsa. Per Eriksson was a common combination of names so not that suspect if two persons had the same.

The dead son should be Lars though, since his daughter's last name was Larsdotter?

2020-04-13, 18:23
Svar #17

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thanks, Kalle.

This helps but then I must be missing the son, Lars.

I have found 8 children of Erik Nilsson and Segrid Nilsdotter:

Kirsten Eriksdotter b. 1740 (still living)
Elin Eriksdotter 1744-1755
Nils Eriksson b. 1745 (still living)
Pernilla Eriksdotter b. 1747 (still living)
Bengta Eriksdotter 1750-1761
Per Eriksson b. 1752 - Not sure about
Catharina Eriksdotter b. 1754 - Not sure about
Elin Eriksson b. 1757 (a second Elin, named after first Elin died) (still living and was unmarried in 1785)

Two of Erik's children died young, leaving 6 other children, 4 of whom I know were still alive at the time of Erik's death:

Kerstin
Nils
Pernilla
Elin

Now it looks like there is a 5th child of Erik's, Per Eriksson, to add to the list of living children, leaving only daughter Catharina unaccounted for, in which case, she likely married Pär (unknown).    The numbers aren't adding up which is what is causing me some confusion. :(  (maybe I shouldn't be so concerned with those numbers.)

It is helpful to know that a Lars should be listed among Erik's children - the son that died - and left a child Elin Larsdotter in Hishult. 

New plan :) I'll try to: 1) locate a birth record for a Lars Eriksson (dead son), a marriage record for him and a birth record for his daughter Elin Larsdotter in Hishult.   2) locate a marriage record for Catharina and a Pär/Per in Wigåsa and birth records for children Jon Persson and Kerstin Persdotter.

I hope I'm understanding this all correctly.  :)  Please, if you see that I'm misunderstanding anything - let me know!

Thank so much for your ongoing help,

Vicki Cihla




2020-04-13, 18:52
Svar #18

Utloggad Kalle Birgersson

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There is one more possibility - either the priest or the man doing the inventory could have messed up the names. That happend every now and then.

2020-04-14, 01:18
Svar #19

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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I believe I've found the 2 grandchildren, Jon Pårsson and Kerstin Pårsdotter, of Erik Nilsson's deceased daughter in Vigåsa, Annerstad. 

They appear in the 1768-1772 household records for Vigåsa and list the parents as Per Jonsson and Martha:

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18249?image=228
Annerstad-G-AI-2-1750-1772-Image-228-Page-439

The birth records for both children list Per Jonsson & Martha Ericsdotter as the parents:
Kerstin's birth record is at bottom of page 43 at https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30809?image=25
Jon's birth record is the 3rd one down on page 68 https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30809?image=38

Erik Nilsson's granddaughter Kerstin is later shown in the 1784-1788 household records with her husband Pehr Ericsson
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v18250?image=51

So, I think Erik Nilsson had another daughter (Martha) who was born much earlier (1734).   Maybe Erik Nilsson was married before. There were no birth records in Vigåsa that fit around 1734.  But, there was a birth record in Vrå in 1732 for a Martha born to an Eric and Kiersten in Ljushult, Vrå (if I'm reading the place correctly):

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=46
Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-46-Page-83.jpg

Ljushult, Vrå was where Erik Nilsson and Segrid's first daughter, also named Kiersten, was born.  So, it's possible.  I still need to "prove" the connection to Erik Nilsson but think I'm on the right track.  And, I have the other grandchild to track down. 

An interesting thing, when you mentioned errors are possible in the records - when I was researching the marriage records for Martha Ericsson and Per Jonsson - the only one I found was the 1758 marriage record in Vigåsa for Soldier Per Nilsson at:

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30809?image=153
Annerstad-G-CI-2-1751-1814-Image-153-Page-299.jpg

I'm wondering if this should have been Per Jonsson.

If you have time to take a look at what I've sent :) (I know it's a lot) I'd appreciate your comments, especially if I've erred in any of my assumptions.

Thanks to all who have helped with this - I appreciate it more than I can say. 

Vicki Cihla


2020-04-14, 01:37
Svar #20

Utloggad Kalle Birgersson

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So, I think Erik Nilsson had another daughter (Martha) who was born much earlier (1734).   Maybe Erik Nilsson was married before. There were no birth records in Vigåsa that fit around 1734.  But, there was a birth record in Vrå in 1732 for a Martha born to an Eric and Kiersten in Ljushult, Vrå (if I'm reading the place correctly):

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=46
Vrå-G-C-1-1701-1823-Image-46-Page-83.jpg

Ljushult, Vrå was where Erik Nilsson and Segrid's first daughter, also named Kiersten, was born.  So, it's possible.  I still need to "prove" the connection to Erik Nilsson but think I'm on the right track. 
I think you are on the right track!

After a widow or a widower remarried, they often named their first son or daughter after the dead. Seems like that's exactly what happend here. But then you should be able to find a dead Kerstin in Vrå sometime between 1732 and whenever the new Kerstin was born.

2020-04-14, 02:24
Svar #21

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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That's good news!  That will be my next step! 

Thanks again for your ongoing help!

Vicki Cihla 

2020-04-15, 01:48
Svar #22

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thanks to your continued help, I am now able to prove the connection between Erik Nilsson and his grandchildren in Vigåsa, Annerstad through his daughter Martha Eriksdotter.  She was, as suspected, a child of Erik's first marriage to Kierstin Nilsdotter

The marriage record for his first marriage in 1730 shows Erik Nilsson is from Mäste (Vrå parish) and ? and ?.  Kierstin Nilsdotter is from Vigåsa (Annerstad parish).  Can you fill in the blanks?   It looks like he was from multiple places, not sure what that means.

Annerstad-G-CI-1-1708-1750-Image-38-Page-71

I've discovered that his two wives were sisters. 

Segrid's birth record (Aug 25, 1714):

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=29&page=335

Kierstin's birth record (December 28, 1711):

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=27&page=335

I am so grateful for all the help I've been receiving. 

Thanks for making all of this possible!

Vicki Cihla


2020-04-15, 02:25
Svar #23

Utloggad Leif Lundkvist

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It say Erick is from "Mäste och Vrå socken", which is in a way correct, he was from Mäste and he was from Vrå socken, but today we should say "Mäste i Vrå socken".

2020-04-15, 02:26
Svar #24

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Oh, and one other thing, I found Kierstin's (Erik Nilsson's first wife) death record (bottom page 338) from 1737 - she died age 26.   So, when Erik and Segrid named their first daughter Kierstin -  after his first wife and her sister! 

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=176

Thanks again,

Vicki Cihla

2020-04-15, 02:27
Svar #25

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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2020-04-15, 19:08
Svar #26

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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New question as I begin looking for the child of Erik Nilsson's deceased son, living in Hyhult(?), Erik's grandchild.   Where is the name Lars mentioned?  The child in question is named Elin Larsdotter?  I'm trying for locate her name or the name of Lars in the document and can't find it.  Can someone point it out? 

The estate inventory is located here:

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v76213?image=46

Thanks for your help in clearing this up,

Vicki Cihla


2020-04-15, 20:05
Svar #27

Utloggad Kalle Birgersson

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In the beginning of the inventory no names are given, only that the "son-children" was living in Hyhult and was represented by a trustee. In the list of names in the end, signing the oath, there is a line that says "Gudmun Swänsson in Kränkeboda; daughter Elin's trustee, Elin ELD Larsdotter in Hyhult". That's why I think she must be the daughter of a dead Lars Eriksson. But why children in plural in the beginning and only one in the end? It will need some research to be totally clear.

2020-04-15, 20:22
Svar #28

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you!  I just now got it.  Erik Nilsson had a second child, born in 1735, with his first wife Kierstin.   He was named Jöns.  Jöns Eriksson was married to Elin Larsdotter!  They had a child named Nils... maybe more.

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=99

See 3rd birth under 1772.

It is coming together!

Thanks again,

Vicki Cihla

2020-04-15, 20:41
Svar #29

Utloggad Kalle Birgersson

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Ok, so when they write "daughter Elin's trustee", they actually mean the son's widow. Yes, I was concidering that, it would explain why only one person is representing more than one children. I think you are on the right track now!

2020-04-15, 20:55
Svar #30

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you!  Yes, and that turned out to be very helpful information!  The son Nils is listed on the 1788 household record with another family (looks like relatives), not all of the children listed are his siblings, am still going through them to see if there were more, or any prior to that that may have already left home and I'm checking for a marriage record for him Jöns and Elin Larsdotter also.

I found Jöns Eriksson's death record - he died in 1778 in Hyhult  - can you tell me what the cause of death was? His is the 4th record listed under 1778.

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v29940?image=196

Thanks for your ongoing help!

Vicki Cihla

2020-04-15, 21:19
Svar #31

Utloggad Kalle Birgersson

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That one was a little unusual. "som när intill sin gård blef ihjälfrusen", he froze to death close to his farm. Lost in a blizzard maybe, that happends every now and then.

2020-04-15, 22:05
Svar #32

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Wow, that is interesting.  Thank you very much!

Vicki Cihla

 

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