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Författare Ämne: Help with birth record  (läst 609 gånger)

2020-04-02, 01:53
läst 609 gånger

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Will someone confirm my translation of the attached birth record?  I think it says:

19 July born to Soldier Pehr Broberg a child in Gashult, baptized ?, called Lars. 

It looks like no sponsors are listed.

Thanks for your help!

Vicki Cihla

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v30192?image=75
Torpa-G-C-1-1690-1747-Image-75-Page-145

2020-04-02, 02:55
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Utloggad Leif Lundkvist

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Correct. He was baptised 7 Trinit, the 7th Sunday after Trinity?, which make it the eight Sunday after Whitsun.

2020-04-02, 03:00
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thanks very much!  I really appreciate all the help i've received! 

Vicki Cihla

2020-04-03, 20:36
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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In looking at the attached record again, do you think Soldier Pehr Broberg should be Soldier Pehr Groberg?  Also, is there a way to find out what his patronymic name using his soldier name?

Thanks for any help with this,

Vicki Cihla

2020-04-03, 21:25
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Utloggad Kalle Birgersson

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Well, it's the same letter as in Gashult. So either they are both B or both G.

2020-04-03, 21:30
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you.  Yes, that's what prompted my question actually.  I don't believe there is a Bashult in Torpa so it must be a G.

Thanks for your response!

Vicki Cihla

2020-04-03, 21:31
Svar #6

Utloggad Kalle Birgersson

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There is an archive over most soldiers, and I found him there. His patronymic is Simonsson, but remember it's just a secondary source. You might want to confirm in the GMR archive. I can't link directly to him, you will have to write Groberg in the first box and you will find him.

https://www.ep.liu.se/databases/soldatregister/search.sv.aspx

2020-04-03, 21:41
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you so much for this very helpful information!!

Vicki Cihla

2020-04-03, 23:01
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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When I entered Groberg in the name box of the link, I received this information:
GROBERG Per
Släktnamn: Simonsson
Född: 1686
Död: 1758
Antagen: 1710
Avsked: 1728
Aktnummer: KR-05-0590-1710
Regemente: Kronobergs regemente
Rote: Groaryd (40)
Kompani: LJUNGBY KOMPANI
Socken: TORPA
Torpnummer: KR-05-0590

I believe that means I should find him in the muster rolls for 1710-1728, correct?  But when I look at the muster rolls, I think I should be looking at the listing for Ljungby Kompani - but I don't see it listed.  I am trying to find his number - is that 5, 590 or ?  How do I find him in there?

Here are the links I've found for the  1710 and 1713 muster rolls, respectively:

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v46664?image=1

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v46665?image=1

I'm not very familiar with military research so your help be appreciated!

Thanks again,

Vicki Cihla

2020-04-03, 23:41
Svar #9

Utloggad Kalle Birgersson

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You are right, it does seem to be missing. Some of these old books are lost but this one can't be since that other database has got the info.

2020-04-04, 00:02
Svar #10

Utloggad Kalle Birgersson

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Found him! Ljungby kompani was called Överstelöjtnantens kompani back then. And his number there was 40 instead of 590. 

Here is muster roll 1716:
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v46667?image=73
The text might be hard to read but it only lists what army clothes he has got. Also, 30 is his age, 6 is how many years he has served, "smålan" is where he came from. 

2020-04-04, 00:07
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you so much for your help!!  How very interesting!  Now I'll be able to track him through the years.

Much appreciated,

Vicki Cihla

2020-04-04, 00:16
Svar #12

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Just want to say thanks again for all the help on this!  I would not have known that the the company name had evolved over the years or found the correct soldier number for him.  This is so helpful and interesting! 

Vicki Cihla

2020-04-04, 00:42
Svar #13

Utloggad Kalle Birgersson

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Just nice to be able to help  :)
Wanted to add some context to the war situation in Per Grobergs time, he must have been pretty busy. Russia defeated Sweden in the battle of Poltava 1709, and even if the king could escape to Moldavia most of the army was either dead or taken prisoner. So back in Sweden all the regiments had to be restarted, and that's when Groberg was hired. The king stayed in Moldavia for a while before he could sneak back home, only to be shot in 1718 when he tried to conquer Norway. The war kept going until 1721 and Sweden lost much of its former glory. Also, in those years it was a big outbrake of plague, so it was a truly miserable time.

2020-04-04, 01:03
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Well, that is very interesting and explains why the 1710 muster roll shows soldier #40,  filled by Per Groberg, as a vacant post.   I did wonder... there's a note on the right hand side - can you tell what it says?  It just gets more interesting...

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v46664?image=65

Thanks so much!

Vicki Cihla


2020-04-04, 07:44
Svar #15

Utloggad Kalle Birgersson

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Vacant hemma i landet och då ingen soldat anskaffat - vacant home in the country and then no soldier obtained

2020-04-04, 15:30
Svar #16

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Very interesting!  What was the process for hiring a soldier?  Was there only one per farm area? 

The GMR for 1717 and 1721 had more extensive notations - I am just curious if he was involved in fighting during the years covered by these muster rolls.  I am really struggling with the handwriting, any help would be very interesting and much appreciated.

1717 muster roll:

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v46668?image=95

1721 muster roll:

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v46671?image=73

I also have a question on then 1728 muster roll - what are the names and fractions listed by his name?  That was his final year in the military.

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v46672a?image=102

Thank you again for all your help,

Vicki Cihla


2020-04-04, 18:54
Svar #17

Utloggad Kalle Birgersson

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Some farms together were responsibel for providing one soldier and all his equipment. Often some large farms and a few smaller. Together they were called a "rote". For a parish like Torpa there might have been around five "rotar", each with one soldier.

In both 1717 and 1721 muster rolls the text describes what clothes the soldier has got. In 1728 it starts with his weaponry, he has got a musket, a bayonet and a small sword. After that they list some clothes again. The last column says "är åldrig och siuklig får afsked", is aged and sick, gets discharge.
I don't know why there are several farms listed that year, probably that´s all farms in the "rote". Normal years only the main farm is listed even if there are many.

2020-04-04, 19:09
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thanks very much for this information!  It is very interesting.  Was one soldier required for each rote?  If so, who decided who it would be?  Did someone volunteer?  Were they paid?   Were they under any contract or did they serve as long as they were able to? 

I really appreciate this information as it provides a better understanding of life at that time.

Thanks again,

Vicki Cihla

2020-04-04, 19:23
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Utloggad Kalle Birgersson

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People did volunteer, even if it was fewer and fewer in prolonged times of war. I often see soldiers hired by a rote quite far from where they were born, often moving from poorer areas to richer where recruiting locally was harder.

They got a small house with some farmland at their disposal, as well as some pay that could be money or wares. They had contracts, I don't know for how long. Once a year or every two or three they were examined to see if they were fit for some more time. That's what the munster rolls are, a register over how they were doing. Groberg was 42 when he had to quit, that was probably a normal age for that. And then he and his family had to leave their house and find somewhere else to live and work. And they rarely had any savings after years of low soldier pay, so it was tough times.

2020-04-04, 20:00
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thank you for taking the time to help me with this!  I really appreciate it.  It would have been impossible for me to have gained this knowledge on my own and I really want to be able to appreciate these people in the context of the times in which they lived.

Thanks again,

Vicki Cihla

2020-04-04, 20:36
Svar #21

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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I have a couple additional questions about the soldier's role.  Was his sole responsibility a military one or did he have additional responsibilities in times of peace?  And, how were they called together in a time of war, when they were spread out across the countryside?  Or, am I wrongly assuming that they went to war wherever they were required and not just defending the country within their own natiional boundries?

Thanks,

Vicki Cihla

2020-04-04, 20:50
Svar #22

Utloggad Kalle Birgersson

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I think they were just training when they were not at war, no civil service. I don't really know how they were called together but there were people everywhere around the countryside back then, word was spreading fast. And they went to war whereever it was, all over Europe.

2020-04-04, 20:59
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Interesting!  It seems like the logistics would be difficult but probably no more than today, even with our technology. 

Thanks again,

Vicki

2020-04-04, 23:37
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Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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In the Torpa Mantalslängder for 1718, at Gashult there is a soldier named Per - do you think this could be Per Simonsson Groberg?  (in military service 1710-1728)

He was living in Gashult in 1718. He was married at the end of 1717 and appears as such on the 1718 GMR.  How can I tell if it is him for certain?

Thanks for your help,

Vicki Cihla


2020-04-04, 23:39
Svar #25

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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2020-04-05, 08:47
Svar #26

Utloggad Kalle Birgersson

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Should be him. If you want to be 100% sure you can follow him from year to year until you find him with his last name included.

2020-04-05, 16:37
Svar #27

Utloggad Victoria Cihla

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Thanks for your response.

I have been following him and found his on the 1722-1723 tax records as Sold Groberg at Groeryd so I am sure it is him.

https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v835374?image=1500&page=291

I have also been able to follow him in that area as Per Simonsson through 1749 at Groeryd, Torpa, Kronoberg.  He's not there in 1750 but I'm still working on this family. 

My dilemma now is that I'm still trying to find definitive proof that the soldier Per (Simonsson) Groberg is the father of "my" Lars Persson.  I believe he is, based on all the circumstantial evidence I have,  but want primary source evidence.  I've checked for estate inventory records - there is one for his first wife (which I can't read) - but I can't find anything after that. I'm still looking at the tax rolls. 

Any idea where else I might look for the proof I need?  The birth record in question does not show the mother's name.  I've done a lot of research on this family and if I'm wrong, that's ok, I continue to learn a lot. 

(If you are interested I will explain why I believe it to be correct.)

Thanks for your ongoing help!

Vicki Cihla

 

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