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Författare Ämne: Help translating two records in Frändefors  (läst 414 gånger)

2019-12-21, 19:30
läst 414 gånger

Utloggad Douglas A Nelson

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Hello,

I would like to please ask for help translating two records concerning Kierstin Månsdotter in Frändefors.  The first is her birth record on 5 Oct 1761: Frändefors C:1 (1751-1781) / 104.  Father: Måns Burling and mother: ??? Olofsdotter;  I cannot read the location.  Second is a household exam (Frändefors AI:2 (1802-1807) / 161).  At the very bottom of the page are Kierstin Månsdotter and her three children.  To the right of the names are two lines that I do not understand.  Could someone please translate them for me?  I’m assuming Kierstin died sometime in this interval, 1802-1807; does the first line concern her death?

Thank you for your help,
Doug Nelson

2019-12-21, 19:43
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Utloggad Kalle Birgersson

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I think the parents are Måns Harling and Allika Olofsdotter. Ellika is more common and maybe it was supposed to be Ällika? The place is Elegärde.

The househhold exam says "40år, läsa bra nog, men mycket långsamt", 40 years old, reads well enough but very slowly. And "dessa fås igen på Stufveryr i den gamla boken" these are found in Stuveryr in the old book

2019-12-21, 19:52
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Utloggad Douglas A Nelson

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Thank you so much for the prompt response!  I'm grateful for the correct parents' names.

Doug Nelson

2019-12-21, 20:02
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Utloggad Kalle Birgersson

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In older books it looks more like Starling than Harling. Anyway, I don't know if you have seen this. Måns and his wife moves in to Elegärde 1757 and the note says "dragon fr. Bäsingebol". So his last name is a soldiers name, and Bäsingebol is the farm where he came from.
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0003435_00207#?c=&m=&s=&cv=206&xywh=2072%2C1469%2C3007%2C1648

It might be the right Ellika Olofsdotter that dies at Bläsingebol in june 1771, 64 years of age
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0043709_00226#?c=&m=&s=&cv=225&xywh=92%2C781%2C5027%2C2755
And Måns Starling dies already i march 1661, only 35 years old
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0043709_00195#?c=&m=&s=&cv=194&xywh=2269%2C2391%2C4939%2C2707

 

2019-12-22, 12:44
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Utloggad Douglas A Nelson

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Thank you very much for this additional information!  So far I have not been able to find a Måns Starling/Harling or anything similar in the Central Soldiers' Register, but I will keep looking. 

Thank you again.

Doug N.

2019-12-22, 23:57
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Utloggad Kristina Gunnarsdotter

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The name is Starling according to Släktregister Dalsland.
Ellika Olofsdotter who dies 1771 at the age of 64 could not have a child 10 years earlier.
Centrala soldatregistret is far from complete.

2019-12-23, 18:42
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Utloggad Douglas A Nelson

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Thank you for the caution about Ellika Olofsdotter's age.

You mentioned Släktregister Dalsland; I am not familiar with this, and could not find it in a quick Google Search.  Could you please tell me more about this source so that perhaps I can find the information on Måns Starling that you cited?

Thank you very much,
Doug N.

2019-12-24, 02:16
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Utloggad Kristina Gunnarsdotter

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I shortened the name a little. It is "Släktnamnsregister" and exists for Värmland, Dalsland, Skaraborg, Göteborgs och Bohus län, Västernorrland and Västgötadelen av Älvsborgs län. It is found in Arkiv Digital. I'm nor sure about Riksarkivet.

2019-12-24, 08:57
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Utloggad Douglas A Nelson

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What a fantastic resource!  Thank you so much for pointing me to it.  I found Måns Starling and several other ancestors.

Doug N.

2020-02-04, 09:52
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Thank you again for your responses to my earlier post concerning Kierstin Månsdotter and her parents.  I would like to please ask your help with several records I have found using your responses.

Mr. Birgersson translated the notes on the household record from Frändefors AI:2/167 as “these are found in Stuveryr in the old book.”  Do you have an idea what the pastor may have meant by “the old book”?  I looked in Frändefors AI:1 but the family is not at Stuveryr then (nor could I find them there in the tax records).

I found Kierstin and her family at Stuveryr in Frändefors AI:2/147 (attached, also https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0043675_00084).  Just to the right of the childrens’ names is a note I cannot interpret, but I believe it mentions the father.  Can someone please translate this for me?  I believe the father’s name was Nils and he died sometime in the early 1790’s, but I have been unable to find a record with his name.  Perhaps this note will give me some clue of where to look.  I see that the family moved to Svennungstakan, and they are there on page 43 of AI:2.

Next are several tax records where I have tried to follow Måns Starling and Ellika Olofsdotter, Kierstin’s parents.  Mr. Birgersson found Måns at Elegärde in 1757 with the note that Måns came from Bäsingebol.  The attached record from Bäsingebol in 1757 (https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0003435_00209) states that Dragon Starling moved to Elegärde, but I do not understand the rest of the note in the margin, other than (I think) the farm owner Olof was unmarried at the time.
 

Next is the 1762 record (https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0003440_00176) from Elegärde which notes Måns’ death.  Is that Ellika Olofsdotter listed just below him?  If so, could you please translate the marginal comment with a reference to Vänersborg?  Is this an institution of some kind?  Several other women in different years at Elegärde and Bäsingebol were associated with it.
It seems Ellika came from Bäsingebol, and that is where an Ellika Olofsdotter died in the 1771 death record Mr. Birgersson found earlier. 
 

Finally is the 1769 record from Elegärde (https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0003448_00208), which I think lists Ellika.  Where did she move to? 

 

I wish I could read this handwriting better, but none of the tools I have seem to help much.  Sorry, I can't figure out how to post images directly in the text (the insert image icon doesn't work??)  Thank you very much for your expertise!

2020-02-06, 16:06
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Utloggad Kalle Birgersson

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Thank you again for your responses to my earlier post concerning Kierstin Månsdotter and her parents.  I would like to please ask your help with several records I have found using your responses.

Mr. Birgersson translated the notes on the household record from Frändefors AI:2/167 as “these are found in Stuveryr in the old book.”  Do you have an idea what the pastor may have meant by “the old book”?  I looked in Frändefors AI:1 but the family is not at Stuveryr then (nor could I find them there in the tax records).
There seems to be one book missing. AI:1 covers 1778-81 and AI:2 1798-1807. The names of the books are modern and there was probably a book for 1781-1797 that is now lost.

I found Kierstin and her family at Stuveryr in Frändefors AI:2/147 (attached, also https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0043675_00084).  Just to the right of the childrens’ names is a note I cannot interpret, but I believe it mentions the father.  Can someone please translate this for me?  I believe the father’s name was Nils and he died sometime in the early 1790’s, but I have been unable to find a record with his name.  Perhaps this note will give me some clue of where to look.  I see that the family moved to Svennungstakan, and they are there on page 43 of AI:2.
It just describes their knowledge in reading. 1798: Bör öfvas något vader våres -  should be trained somewhat in "pater noster", Lord's prayer. 1799: Can't see it all but I do see långsamt - slow and stafvar snålt - spelling badly.

Next are several tax records where I have tried to follow Måns Starling and Ellika Olofsdotter, Kierstin’s parents.  Mr. Birgersson found Måns at Elegärde in 1757 with the note that Måns came from Bäsingebol.  The attached record from Bäsingebol in 1757 (https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0003435_00209) states that Dragon Starling moved to Elegärde, but I do not understand the rest of the note in the margin, other than (I think) the farm owner Olof was unmarried at the time.
It reads "Ogift systerman, dess moder död. Dragon Starling till Elegierde. Bror Torsten." Unmarried sister-husband, its mother dead. Dragon Starling to Elegärde, brother Torsten".

Next is the 1762 record (https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0003440_00176) from Elegärde which notes Måns’ death.  Is that Ellika Olofsdotter listed just below him?  If so, could you please translate the marginal comment with a reference to Vänersborg?  Is this an institution of some kind?  Several other women in different years at Elegärde and Bäsingebol were associated with it.
It seems Ellika came from Bäsingebol, and that is where an Ellika Olofsdotter died in the 1771 death record Mr. Birgersson found earlier. 
E. Ellika Ohlsdotter - E for enka, widow. And Ohlsdotter is short for Olofsdotter. It reads "p. Anna fr. Bäsingebohl spinner för Wennersborgs priviligerade garn magasin". P for piga, might mean unmarried daughter, Anna is spinning for this instution in Vänersborg. I don't know exactly what to make out of that, priviligierad means of course privilieged, garn means yarn and magasin was a storage building. Maybe she was just working there, or it could be some kind of insanity treatment or punishment. In old times female prisoners was sent to "spinnhus", prisons where they had to produce textiles. 

Finally is the 1769 record from Elegärde (https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0003448_00208), which I think lists Ellika.  Where did she move to? 
Torp, I guess. First letter is a little vague.
 
I wish I could read this handwriting better, but none of the tools I have seem to help much.  Sorry, I can't figure out how to post images directly in the text (the insert image icon doesn't work??)  Thank you very much for your expertise!
That old handwriting, a foreign language and an archaic one also that no online translator can help with, that is not an easy task. I think you are doing very good reading at least some of it!

2020-02-07, 18:51
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Utloggad Douglas A Nelson

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Thank you so much for your help!  Your guess that Ellika moved to Torp was correct: I think I see her there from 1771-1774, after which she disappeared.

I did find her with her daughter Kierstin in 1778 in Frändefors AI:1, p. 3 (attached).  Again, I can't read where they moved to.  Or maybe they did not move since they aren't crossed out.  If someone can please read this, I would be grateful.  If they moved to the eastern part of the parish, I'm out of luck, as there are no household exams there prior to 1802.

I took Swedish in high school, but that was 50 years ago, and doesn't help much with reading some of the hand-writing in the old books.

2020-02-07, 19:25
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Utloggad Kalle Birgersson

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Seems to be "Ruds stom." Stommen is an old word for land belonging to the local church, these days often turned into an ordinary farm. So I guess they moved to that part of the little Rud village. But as you feared, it seems to be in the eastern part.

2020-02-07, 20:41
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Utloggad Douglas A Nelson

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Thank you for all your help!  Not too surprisingly, I can't see them in the tax records at Rud in the years after 1778 (I doubt Ellika owned land anymore).  I'll put this search aside for now, as I don't think the records I need to find Kierstin's husband exist.  I am glad to have learned with your expertise about her parents.

 

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