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Författare Ämne: Nils Svensson or Nils Svensen Roos  (läst 307 gånger)

2019-07-06, 09:34
läst 307 gånger

Utloggad Graham H

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I am looking for my Swedish ancestry but the details are scarce. Nils Svensson Roos was born on 17 October, 1849 in Mattmar, Jamtland before moving to Queensland in Australia.
His father, as far as I can find, was also possibly Nils Svensson born about 1824.
His mother may have been Elna Monson.
Graham H

2019-07-06, 13:31
Svar #1

Utloggad kristinar

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Where did you get birth date and birth place for your Nils Roos?

According to Australia Death Index Nils Svenson Roos died in 1909:

Name:   Nils Svensen Roos
Death Date:   25 Oct 1909
Death Place:   Queensland
Father's name:   Nils Roos
Mother's name:   Karna
Registration Year:   1909
Registration Place:   Queensland
Registration Number:   001465
Page Number:   22504
Nils Svenson Roos was married to Elna Monsson according to their children birth records...se for example:

Name:   Nils Theodor Roos
Birth Date:   26 Jan 1881
Birth Place:   Queensland
Registration Year:   1881
Registration Place:   Queensland, Australia
Father:   Nils Swanson Roos
Mother:   Elino Monssan
Page Number:   12797
Registration Number:   006784


Nils and Elnas oldest son Carl was born in Sweden about 1871. Their next child was born in Queensland around 1874. They should then have emigrated between 1871-1874 and I actually found this passenger lists from Hamburg, Passenger Lists (via ancestry):

Name:   Carl Svensson
Gender:   männlich (Male)
Departure Age:   2
Birth Date:   abt 1871
Residence Place:   Malmö, Schweden
Departure Date:   30 Mrz 1873 (30 Mar 1873)
Departure Place:   Hamburg, Deutschland (Germany)
Destination:   Queensland
Arrival Place:   Queensland
Relationship:   Sohn (Son)
Ship Name:   Herschel
Captain:   Friedrichs
Shipping Clerk:   Louis Knorr & Co.
Shipping Line:   Rob. M. Sloman & Co.
Ship Type:   Segelschiff
Ship Flag:   Deutschland
Accommodation:   Zwischendeck
Volume:   373-7 I, VIII A 1 Band 028 A
Household Members:   
Name   Age
Niels Svensson   22
Elna Svensson   22
Carl Svensson   2
https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=1068&h=5868203&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=GZi2307&_phstart=successSource


They lived in Malmö at the time of emigration.


I can see that according to your family tree at ancestry you state that Elna was born September 25th 1852 in Löverstad...don't think that is correct..


I foudnd a family that could match the passenger list:


Nils Svensson born October 17th 1851 Svedala
Elna Månsdotter born June 21st 1851 Bosarp
Karl born April 19th 1871 Svedala


They emigrated to Australia from Malmö Sankt Petri March 21 1873.


Nils Svenssons father was named Sven Jönsson and his mother Karna Hansdotter according to the Svedala birth records, Svedala CI:4 (1822-1860) page 125.

2019-07-06, 13:55
Svar #2

Utloggad kristinar

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Not sure if Carl really is Nils son...birth register says that he was born "oäkta" illegitimate to Elna Månsdotter.



I find Nils Svensson, Elna Månsdotter and Karl in Malmö Sankt Petri Aid:22 (1871-1875) page 126. Looks like Nils and Elna got married December 26th 1872. It is stated there that they emigrate to Australia March 21 1873.

2019-07-06, 14:05
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Utloggad kristinar

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So, I looked up Nils Svenssons parents at the time of his birth in 1851...it looks a little messy...


I think I have this right then...Nils father Sven Jönsson (born December 17th 1814 in Ugglarp) died October 13th 1851 (of unknown sickness according to death record). Nils mother Karna Hansdotter (born January 1st 1815 in Svedala) then remarries Nils Olsson Roos December 18th 1852...maybe that is where the name Roos comes from (Svensson from his birth father and Roos from his step-father)? Nils Olsson Roos was born April 3rd 1823 in Genarp. He was a "husar".


Svedala AI:11 (1848-1857) page 363
Svedala AI:12 (1858-1861) page 458


Note: When Nils Svensson emigrates with Elna and Karl from Malmö in 1873 I find that they actually lived with Nils mother and her husband Nils Olsson Roos. Nils Roos and Elna (and children) moved from Svedala to Malmö Caroli in 1865, Svedala AI:13 (1862-1867) page 477. They move from Malmö Caroli to Malmö Sankt Petri in 1872.


What do you think? How strong is your source for the birth date Oct 17th 1849 and birth place Mattmar, Jämtland...?

2019-07-06, 17:08
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Utloggad kristinar

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One more thing...I looked up Elna Månsdotter at the time of when she might have gotten pregnant with Karl...and she works as a "piga" at farm in Svedala and I also found Nils Svensson as a "dräng" there at the same time...so it is theoretically possible that Karl could be Nils Svenssons son...Svedala AI:14 (1868-1877) page 256.

2019-07-07, 01:04
Svar #5

Utloggad Graham H

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Hello and thank you so much Kristinar.
There is a very long story behind the search for this information but the short version is that my mother met a distant cousin when she was visiting family in North Queensland in 2018 and he gave her most of the details I have on my family tree.
The major detail which had me puzzled was the name Elna Monson as I understood Monson to be a male surname in Swedish.
At that point my search for Swedish ancestors came to a brick wall, possibly due to the questionable dates but also to my lack of Swedish.
 I may need to contact him - I've never met him - to determine his sources, but what you've found for me seems so much more accurate and relevant and connects a lot of people and facts together.
I am more than a little interested in how and why you became involved with my post as it was almost a last resort and I wouldn't have been surprised to hear nothing.
Again, thank you so much for your time and effort.
Graham

2019-07-07, 09:17
Svar #6

Utloggad kristinar

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Your welcome. I sometimes help out here on this forum if I can and have the time, but mostly with emigration to the US. I saw your post and thought I'd try and see what I could find.


Anyway, I don't think that you should give as much weight to the name Monson. More often than not women dropped the "dotter" part when they emigrated. So, Månsdotter became Månsson, Månson, Monson, Munson, Manson or some other variant...or a completely different chosen name as well. Also, at the end of the 19th century we stopped using that as well. Some parishes before others. I am certain there are others here on this forum that know more about the history of the patronymic use than me  :) .


When Nils, Elna and Karl emigrates to Australia in 1873 Elnas last name is already changed to Månson in the church books for Malmö Sankt Petri parish.


It could be good if you could find out the sources to your information and see if they are correct or not. I have not found any records in Mattmar, Jämtland that matches (I might have missed something as well).


If you want I can email you copies of some of the church records that I have found so far?


Also, as a side note, at least 3 of Nils Svenssons half siblings emigrates to Chicago, Illinois. Also Nils Olsson Roos and Karna Hansdotter/Hansson leaves for Chicago. Karna comes back alone (without her husband) to Malmö again to one of her daughters and dies there in 1890.

2019-07-07, 10:14
Svar #7

Utloggad Graham H

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Hello Kristinar and thank you again.
I've spent some time today looking over the information you'd sent previously and have modified some glaring issues on my main Ancestry tree.
The Monson surname issue is very interesting. I googled the Elina Monssan variation today and was taken to an Australian website - 'Australian Royalty' (referring to colonial Australians, not real royalty) - and discovered more on Theodore Nils Roos.
I'll continue to review my information and let you know what I find.
I would greatly welcome any further information or records you are able to send.
Best wishes
Graham

2019-09-04, 07:53
Svar #8

Utloggad Graham H

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Hello
I finally had feedback last Saturday regarding the birth place of Nils Roos that I had on my family tree.
Jane, who would be a distant cousin of mine, said she believes the information I took from her tree came from the Queensland department responsible for Births, Deaths and Marriages.
She added that she has doubts about this information due to difficulties with communication back when Nils and Elna arrived in Australia.
Graham

 

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