Hänel, Carl Friedrich August

[Vibeke Johansson]

Behöver hjälp med att få mer info om min morfars farfar; Carl Friedrich August Hänel, Haenel ,född Glogau , Breslau, Niederschlesien, Preussen f 4 dec 1824, men fanns i Stockholm 1860-62 i alla fall. Har svårt att se hur han kom hit, försökt att hitta vägar som person från Preussen kom hit då han var ritmästare och inte militär , hur / var hittar jag mer om detta? Vilka vägar fanns det runt1855-1860 att ta sig hit och hur förflyttat man sig runt om i Sverige  denna tid. Tacksam för all hjälp jag kan få.

[Susan Waughman]

Hello Vibeke,

 My great, great grandad's name was Karl Friedrich August Haenel, he had a son named Ernest Karl Haenel. He was a miner, and his son was a master cabinet maker. Karl Friedrich was born around that time you mentioned, as Ernest was born in 1853. Ernest came to London Uk, but I've been trying to find out like you..for years anything about what happened to his dad. Did he stay in Germany, or come with him? might he have travelled to Sweden? I have a marriage certificate for Ernest saying his dad was deceased before 1898. Do you think my Karl Friedrich August Haenel is the same one as your's? You have been the best match so far for me on dates and full name!

Sue Waughman

[Anna Peters]

I believe Carl Friedrich August was born in 1826, not 1824. There is a birth record from Glogau at Ancestry.de and he is registered in Stockholm, S:t Gertrud parish (a German parish) until he dies in 1895. During the period 78-91 the following persons are registered in the household. I believe his wife is not the first wife. I guess you can find out more if you dive deeper into the actual church records.


Carl Friedrich August Haenel1826-12-04

Amalia Augusta Haenel

1840-06-14

Emil Robert Haenel

1866-10-29

Ernst Victor Haenel

1870-12-11

Eugenia Franziska Katharina Haenel

1862-04-24

[Susan Waughman]

Many thanks Anna, hmmm....I can never find Ernest attached to his dad ever! you know its very, very strange, Ernest's behaviour when filling in a census. It definately is him, sometimes he says he was born in Germany, another date says he was born in Middlesex. He also used different surnames like harnet. He is a nightmare for anyone trying to research him. I realise in the uk at that time that Germans and Italians were persecuted, Ernest was interned for a period in the Isle of man camp, a few years before he died in 1925. My grandmother Elizabeth Maud Haenel hid her German roots all her life to my mum..never spoke about it. I very much doubt that my Karl Friedrich went to Sweden now, but thanks again anyway! : )

[Anna Peters]

It seems that the first wife of Carl Friedrich August was a Minna Auguste Friederike Feiertag, born in 1823. They married on May 5. 1850 in Berlin. Does that sound familiar?

[Vibeke Johansson]

Hello Susan!
I am so happy that someone saw my request at last, and i haven´t been looking here for a long time , but idid get a mail this evening and now i can confirm that this Carl Freidrich August Haenel is for sure my great ,great grandfather to, as all of them named in Anna peters memo here. And i can confirm to you that he really went to Sweden and eventually Stockholm around 1860 from Copenhagen. It is the right person , sorry it took so long to confirm it to you. He and his family has a long story wth a very diffrent life.  But in one way it´s a sad story for Ernst and i hope i will be able tell you more about it , it s a story about  a circus princess , a  exciting escape from country to country , a new family and thier way to  manage a life in Sweden. i have been working on thier story for many yers now church books and arschives, and i promised my mother who died last year (102 years) and she met Amalie Augusta ( Grosemutter) when she was 8 year and told me about her. Carl died 1895 and Amalie in 1928. I have so much to tell you if you like to here more because Ernest is a missing link i would like to her more about.  Hope you´ll still want to her more from you.
Vibeke

[Susan Waughman]

Wow Vibeke! I'm very pleased to meet you too..as well as Anna! : ) Please, please do tell me more! I've been waiting for years, I found out that the Prussian war destroyed many records. But my Mum's grandmother had two husband's from Germany, the 1st was Johannes Henry Weimer, I have recently uncovered no end of family attached to him from Hessen...but very little about the Haenel's.

Thing is my Karl Friedrich August Haenel was a miner (its on my nan's marriage certificate) so I've been trying to research Saxony where there is mines...but came up with nothing as usual. Would he have been a miner in his early life, then started travelling with his new love? I still can't find Ernest anywhere though in either marriage..only Eugene Haenel b. 1853.  😢

I wait with excitement to hear what you know my dear! please tell me all you know!!

[Susan Waughman]

Many thanks Anna! I will look up on Ancestry about Minna in a minute. It sounds promising if Karl married twice, and the other wife could be Ernest's mother!

[Anna Peters]

Susan, do you know if your Ernst Carl was born on March 18? In that case I might have found a birth record.

[Susan Waughman]

Nope, sorry Anna! I only have the year date. It seems rather odd (that Minna/Wilhemina) had a son in 2 mar 1953 in Berlin. His name was Eugen Haenel...but its not Ernest (!) in his records it adds up though, that he married an Auguste Pauline Sommer in 19 sept. 1881. (no children) Now Ernest in London married Elizabeth Channing in 1898..late in life. Only spanner in the works is...my Nan (Elizabeth Maud Haenel) was born in 1881. If it is the same man Eugene/Ernest with the same birth year 1853, how could he be in two different countries? 😁

[Anna Peters]

I'm afraid I'm only adding to your mysteries. The birth record of Carl Friedrich August in Glogau says that his father was Carl Joseph Hänel, with some kind of military occupation. When C. F. A. marries Auguste Feiertag in 1850 it says that his father was a Joseph Hänel, a lower grade military officer, so that seems to match.


Then there is this marriage record from Berlin in 1881 of their son Eugen, born on March 2. 1853, when he marries Auguste Pauline Sommer. In a later note in the same record it is stated that they divorce on August 23. 1898. But the strange thing is that his father Carl Friedrich August was reported dead at that point, and that he died in the town of Guben. Do you have this record? If that is true, this is not the person who emigrated to Sweden. But what is the likelihood that there was another child with the same name and birth date in Glogau who is not recorded? None I should say. So, I guess the information about the death of C. F. A. in Guben is wrong.


I don't know if Eugen is your Ernest. Perhaps not. If your first post,where you mention that someone is a miner, refers to Carl Friedrich August, that would suggest that the person we have been discussing is not the right one. He had some kind of administrative occupation, an assistant at a court in Berlin, and I believe also in Guben. 


I also don't know what other data you have on your Hänels. Would it be possible that the father's name is Friedrich August and that they lived in Dresden? (Maybe they just left out Carl in that record. No name of the mother.) There is a birth of a Carl Ernst Hänel on March 18. 1853 in Dresden. I can unfortunately not read his fathers occupation. But there were mines in that area, ie. coal mines. I think there might be more Hänel records in Dresden. Do you have access to the German records at Ancestry, or should I try to find some more of these Hänels?

[Susan Waughman]

Many thanks indeed Anna for trying to figure this out! 😄  The Dresden Ernest seems like the perfect match to me. I just looked at that baptism record on Ancestry, its a pity its in German so I can't read it though but the father and son record together, is the FIRST I've come across - many many thanks for that!! I think we have a match at long last!. The Saxony area is where most of the miners at the time emigrated to Australia, USA due to economic reasons (taxes, unable to buy land, high cost of living).

I had the marriage certificate of Ernest and Elizabeth Channing, even printed it out (can't find it on Ancestry marriage banns) who married in 1898. It stated on there, Karl Friedrich August Hainel as father, but deceased (before) 1898....so he is not the Swedish KFAH after all... sorry Vibeke!

If you have time to find any more on this father and son...possibly mother Anna, I'd be eternally grateful!, but I'll look as well...now I have something promising to go on. I hope the baptism isn't the only record.

I have a photo of a lady in a crinoline dress handed down to me from my mum's brother Edward when he died. On the back its an Australian photographer. If this is the mother, and KFAH went with her to Australia..I don't know, I got in touch with the photographer archives, but he didn't have the name of the woman.

[Anna Peters]

Well, Susan. The birth record of Ernest is certainly not the only one with Hänels in Dresden. There are so many that it is hard to check all of them. For that reason I have only had a look at those where the full name Carl Friedrich August Hänel is noted. But it is common that the records fail to take note of one christian name, or that they change the order of the names.  I have found a number of "CFAH", but the most likely candidate seems to be the one on the 1853 birth record. And now I can read the occupation as well: Untersteiger in the coal mine of Potschappler. That should mean a low ranking head of a small unit. This is the family I have found:


Carl Friedrich August Hänel, possibly born in 1808, but that is very uncertain. Dead before 1871, when his wife marries again. Possibly dead in 1865, but that is also very uncertain.
Married on June 22. 1852 with Johanne Wilhelmine Schnell(e), born around 1820. Dead May 10. 1881. The wedding record says that he was a widower (witwer), but I haven't been able to find information of his first wife or if he had any children with her, but see also comment below.


They lived in Neu Coschütz, which is now a more or less integrated part of Dresden, in the south-west.


Children:
Ernst Carl Hänel, born March 18. 1853
Carl Friedrich August, born Juni 7. 1855
Julius Paul, born Ocotber 10. 1857
possibly Carl Gottlob Christian Adolph, born September 21. 1858


His wife/widow marries again on November 11. 1871 with a man with surname Arnold.


There are some wedding records of some of the children as well.


There is another CFA Hänel family living very close by, in Cunnersdorf. One CFA was born around 1837 and could theoretically have been a child in the first marriage of the Hänel above, if he was indeed born in 1808. But I have no proof of that and I deem it less likely. His wife was a Clara Therese Sobe.  His parents were Carl August Hänel, not a miner but a day-worker (Tagesarbeiter) and Christiane Friederike Schenk. I haven't dug deep into them.



Please remember that this might not be the right family. But I think there are some family trees online. That could be worth checking up. Let me know if I should send the records to you. I haven't written all information here. I can help with translation if you need that.

[Susan Waughman]

Oh my Anna!!! thank you *SO MUCH* for taking the time to research for me today...bless you my dear for that! I bet your head is reeling with Carl Friedrich August Haenel for the best part of the day! 😁 I know, there's 100's of the same name to sift through..its like finding a needle in a haystack. The 1853 birth year of Ernest helps to narrow it down a bit, that is his definate birth date, as its on his marriage Banns certificate with Elizabeth Channing.

That's awesome that you managed to find that family, with the names and dates that reasonably fit!. CFAH b. 1808 would mean that he was 45 when Ernest was born, but that's okay still, his wife Johanne was 33 when Ernest was born...before she had 3 more boys - wow, she did good at that age to still give birth!. I'm like you, and don't think the parent CFA was the right one if he is a day worker.

I'll try to look on Ancestry for this family, that seems to be an excellent fit so far. If it is Ernest's family, its a darn shame his brother's were not there to help him in his last days in the London Hackney workhouse. But I guess the Franco/Prussian war of 1870-1871 might have killed them in action? He died of cancer of the stomach and liver in the end poor soul. If I need any records from the family my dear, I'll let you know, I feel I have taken up a lot of your time already!! 💕

I'm sorry Vibeke if I have hijacked your original post! 💕 but dear Anna has been a diamond to help me after so many years of not knowing, and feeling sad about my grandparents family. God bless you both in all you do, and thank you again! X

[Vibeke Johansson]

Hi again Susan and maybe Anna to! Soor  itakes a longer time for me to replay, but i do hope my spelling is understandble. I was so exited yesterday to se your respons , and i was to quick to anwer becaause i really think we have the connection with Eugen ( Not Ernest) Haenel. Borned 2 mars 1853 in Berlin i have the church book paper and his father was married with Minnie Wilhemina and they had two daughters Marie Charlotte Louise and Clara Agnes before Eugen. And i hope you dont give up on this now , If you are member of Ancestry you can look me up. Johansson family tree and the Names that Anna wrote first is really my relatives Amalia borned in Cassel Hessen and their Children Emil,Robert, Ernst Victor and Eugenia and one more, Max Alfred should be Eugens half siblings all borned in Sweden the country the escaped to in the end. and i really loved to hear more about Eugen and your family!  If you liked to.
  And thank you Anna your work is really good to
Vibeke

[Susan Waughman]

Hi Vibeke!  Last night I was so happy and convinced that Karl or Carl FAH went to Sweden, that I put all the family into my tree on Ancestry. But then I came across his wife August Pauline Sommer, who he married in 1881. Alarm bells rang as I thought 'this man can't be marrying this lady..while in the uk he is having the birth of my Nan Elizabeth Maud in London in 1881! and all the dates matched beautifully, apart from that one and the fact he is Eugene and not Ernest. 😊😭

[Susan Waughman]

I've just had something very strange happen on my Ancestry tree. 🤔 I had to take all your ancestors off Vibeke, and put the Ancestors that Anna found recently instead. Before I did this though, Christiane Herzog and Carl Joseph from your tree, were still there as 'potential mother and father'. After putting Johanne Wilhelmine Schnelle in as wife to CAFH, the mum and dad were STILL showing Christiane Herzog And Carl Joseph as his parents!! its just the Eugen name and the 1881 date I can't fathom. 😁 The potential mother and father show up apparently, because they are DNA linked to an ancestor in my lineage! how's that then? Vibeke's family must be linked with mine then???

*Amendment* trying to make sense of it all tonight! 🥴😄😄😄

Looking at the dates again, (I always wondered why Ernest left it so late to marry Elizabeth Channing in october 1898). What do you think of this:
Eugen marries August Pauline Sommer in 1881, or early in 1880. Soon after, he can't stand the sight of her, or it was an arranged marriage. Eugen then sails to London uk to get away from her 😁 meets Elizabeth Channing and has a baby by her (b. 10th july 1881/0) so he must have been with her 9 mths beforehand in 1880? Eugen then carries on to have 3 more daughters by Elizabeth Channing. THIS could be the reason why Elizabeth and Ernest/Eugen waited so long to get married in 1898, because the divorce from August Sommer came through in august 1898.... they got hitched in oct. 1898! Ernest changed his name when entering the uk to avoid being charged with bigamy, making his 4 girls illegitimate as well. Another thing, Elizabeth and Ernest kept changing their address every 10 yrs around London..in some very nice houses. I thought 'why the heck do they keep doing this?' maybe to stop anyone catching up with them? could also be the reason he kept changing his surname on census forms, and where he was born. What do you say?! 😂🙈💕 seems to make sense! (hoping he married August in 1880 though).

[Anna Peters]

Susan, I am sorry to bust your intriguing story, but Eugen Hänel, born March 2. 1853 does exist separately from Carl Ernst Hänel. Se image of his birth record:





I don't know if this Eugen and KFA Hänel are related to your Hänels, but I doubt it. Hänel is a common name and the Hänels in question didn't live really close to eachother. They also had quite different occupations, which probably says something about what type of backgrounds they came from. One is a coal miner and the other is some kind of office clerk.


Not sure I understood your comment properly, but, if relevant, this Eugen married miss Sommer on September 19. 1881. The parents mentioned in the marriage record are the same as in the birth record above. Eugens profession is "Zuschneider", which translates to something like "cutter", probably referring to textiles. This Eugen should be relevant to Vibeke though, in case this is not already known information.

[Susan Waughman]

Thanks Anna 😁 I know! just trying to make sense of it, as Ancestry is saying Vibeke's tree is linked to my tree by DNA lineage. How the hell they work that one out..god knows! I'm so confused really.

The divorce just explain's Ernest's behaviour in 1898, and why he didn't marry Elizabeth Channing in the uk sooner, so properly he would have been 4 daughters natural father instead of them being illigitimate at birth. Also Elizabeth Channing lied on a census like Ernest saying she was a widow from her 1st marriage...when Johannes Weimer died in 1903.

I had come across Vibeke's ancestor's years ago actually getting all excited, until I saw the name 'Eugen' and he was a Tailor. Oh well...back to square one I guess! 😸😓😭

[Anna Peters]

Well, I don't intend to dive into your DNA connections with Vibeke, but how strong is the DNA link (centimorgan). No need to answer here, just a retorical question. I guess the link doesn't by definition have to be Eugen/Carl Ernest... From what you write I don't see the need to go back to square one. I would rather research their ancestry and maybe find common relatives.

[Susan Waughman]

Hello Anna, After much examination, and the fact that you found an Ernest C (or could be K) Haenel b. Mar 18 1853, father's name is C/Karl Friedrich August Haenel, children in the family have father's name included, Ernest was born in Dresden, Saxony (where Miner's are). I decided to add him to my tree...I think that's enough evidence! (hopefully more hints will come up soon) to know he is the real father & son. Could you please send the records to me you found, if you wouldn't mind? I would be very grateful..and thank you very much for your kind help. 💕

more evidence: Ernest's brother Julius Paul was a cabinet maker, same as Ernest!

[Anna Peters]

Please check if you got a personal message through the forum. It doesn't work very well to send copies, but I tested the 1852 marriage record.

[Susan Waughman]

I just sent you two messages today Anna, its very strange they are not showing up in 'sent' messages this morning, does it take a day to show up a new message on this forum? Do you have an Ancestry account to message you there instead?

[Anna Peters]

You have my email address in a personal message 

[Vibeke Johansson]

Hi again and i think that you both are right Ernest from Dresden and should not be connected with Eugen , yesterday i found documet of immigration for Eugen to USA 1893 and i few aother thing so i hope i will find out more there. Anna is very good in this ( en klippa)a rock) but its very nice to hear different versions before all papers are wright, and i am happy for you Susan , even thoug you stioll have a gap in time to fill up,its a start! I go for my Eugen but acctually i need to know more about Carl Freiderich August Haenel and his family in Breslau before his son , thats another story! Thank you Susan to shake me up and read again , Anna for taking me further! Mvh Regards Vibeke

[Susan Waughman]

Bless you Vibeke!, isn't it strange that now all is being revealed to both of us at this time? 😁 I wish you the best of luck with Eugen's trail to the US, I found a Carl Friedrich August Haenel who settled in Wisconsin once, if that's any help? many Norwegian settlers went there, North Dakota, Minnesota, Midwest as well, because the land and weather was familiar to them. I vaguely remember he started a farm? not sure though. There is somewhere for you to research! 👍🙋‍♀️ My Carl Friedrich had many generations in the Saxony area, I'm thrilled that Anna found the right CFAH (there's 100's!) let us know here how you get on...Anna is great!. ⭐💕