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Meddelanden - Luke Ronlund
Sidor: [1]
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« skrivet: 2021-02-01, 21:20 »
Yes Sven-Ove. This is the link I wish to explore and the reason I am trying to find any archived records for Anders and the trade/craft.
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« skrivet: 2021-01-31, 03:43 »
My apologies for writing in English... Would there be a military record for Mattias Göransson CAMITZ (born 1654 & died 9 Feb 1689) if he was the Captain at the Castles Company? I believe he was from Kristinehamn. Because he died at a young age of 35, I am not sure how he died.
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« skrivet: 2021-01-31, 03:39 »
My apologies for writing in English. I am searching for ANY record of a kvartermästare Jürgen/Göran Camitz. He was from the Kristinehamn region and served in the military from at least about 1700 until his capture death in the Great Northern War against the Russians (Battle of Poltava?).
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« skrivet: 2021-01-31, 03:17 »
My apologies for writing in English...... I am searching for any early records of an Anders who might have started or practiced the craft of shoemaker at Örebro in the years around 1760-1767. Any help would be most appreciated and welcomed!!
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« skrivet: 2021-01-31, 03:01 »
My apologies for writing in English...... I am searching for any early records of an Anders who might have started or practiced the craft of shoemaker at Göteborg in the years around 1760-1767. Any help would be most appreciated and welcomed!!
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« skrivet: 2021-01-31, 02:58 »
My apologies for writing in English...... I am searching for any early records of an Anders who might have started or practiced the craft of shoemaker at Göteborg in the years around 1760-1767. Any help would be most appreciated and welcomed!!
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« skrivet: 2021-01-29, 21:04 »
Absolutely no offence taken Gunilla. To be honest, I do not know how such a trip might have been made. All I know is that the soldier who was born in Örebro, traveled to the Swedish territory of South Ostrobothnia (today Finland), married very soon after, and remained living in that new territory. How or why he made that trip from Örebro, I do not know. This is what I search for . IF the soldier Anders BRUNMAN is the civilian Anders CAMITZ, then the trip to Göteborg from Örebro is relevant but that trip was made approx 4 years before he joined the Osterbottens regemente, Narpes Kompani. The only other information I have, is that before he became a soldier, he is identified as a "shoemaker"? It is possible that he may have learned this trade at either Stockholm, Göteborg or Örebro. If I can find some further record of this, then I might have more pieces to my puzzle.  All part of the enjoyment of looking back in time with open eyes on all possibilities.
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« skrivet: 2021-01-29, 07:57 »
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« skrivet: 2021-01-24, 07:33 »
Hi Niklas.... I would welcome your thoughts please.... With regard to Anders (presumably CAMITZ his name before becoming a soldier).... It would appear that any effort by him to be a shoemaker was a short term profession. Anders Camitz (also spelt Kammitz) was born 20 Jul 1740 and he is recorded in Orebro Nikolai in his mothers household. There is a date of 1760 for a trip to Stockholm with a return to his mothers household of 1761. There is another trip to Gotheborg in 1763 and this is the last of any record for him within Orebro Nikolaiai. Is it possible/likely that if he was of a family of good financial standing, that he tried to enter the shoemaker trade at Stockholm or at Gotheborg, or most likely would it be at Orebro Nikolai? I will need to try to exhaust records at all three locations I think. IF as I believe (based on a Finn researcher), that Anders Camitz is the same person as the soldier Anders Brunman, and with Anders Brunman recorded as entering the military on 25 Apr 1767, this would be approx 4 years after his 1763 date for leaving Orebro Nikolai for Gotheborg.
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« skrivet: 2021-01-24, 06:13 »
It is my understanding that the soldier "kvartermästare" Göran CAMITZ was born of the 21 July 1675 marriage of Mattias CAMITZ and Ingeborg Olofsdotter but I have no date of birth. If he was presumed born after his parents marriage, he would have been maximum age 25 years when he left for war in 1700, never to return to Sweden. Also from my understanding, he had only one brother, Olof who died about 1697
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« skrivet: 2021-01-24, 05:45 »
I believe I thanked you previously Sven but in case not, I would like to thank you again very much!
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« skrivet: 2021-01-24, 05:41 »
Thank you Christina but unfortunately it is not the person I am seeking. Thank you very much for your time though.
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« skrivet: 2019-08-18, 14:30 »
Thank you very much for all your help Niklas. Especially the suggestion re: the craft of shoemaking. Now I need to find some-one with familiarity (expertise) in information on this craft. However...... if BRUNMAN was an assigned soldier name, it might be a bit more difficult....
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« skrivet: 2019-08-18, 10:41 »
Hi Niklas. Thank you VERY much for your thoughts and directions. I have been looking very hard at the Anders Camitz/Anders Brunman relationship for over 10 years now (including a 1st hand trip to Finland). To say that it is frustrating is an understatement! re: the Date of Birth for the soldier Anders BRUNMAN. On it's own, this is a point of contention and not as straight forward as might seem. The earliest record for Anders BRUNMAN (and his wife) provide different dates of birth to later records (for them both). Strange that both he and his wife had different dates of birth in church records in earliest records (1740 & 1744 respectively) to that of later records (1746 & 1748 respectively). While the 1770 military record identifies his age as 24 1/4 (which as you have correctly calculated, places his DOB as 1746), the records of commune/residence for the same time clearly identify his year of birth as 1740 with his wife's as 1744. This difference has had me perplexed and the reason I began searching very hard for any records to definitively place his actual Date of Birth which I also hoped with definitively identify his surname before joining the military. Were it not for the identification of Örebro as place of birth in the soldier record, I would have no direction at all. As an aside, the earliest record that I can find for Anders BRUNMAN in Ostrobothnia to date, is his 1768 intention to marry.
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« skrivet: 2019-08-11, 13:37 »
My sincere apologies for this request in English. I am searching for any record of Anders CAMITZ (Kamitz) who is recorded as leaving Örebro on 18 October 1763 for Göteborg. By 26 Apr 1767, I believe he became a soldier, was given a soldier name and was serving with Osterbottens regemente, Narpes Kompani. I don't know which parish in Göteborg Anders would have gone to but it's most likely that he left Örebro to Göteborg for the reason of joining the military. Would this narrow down the choice of parish's that he may be recorded as moving in to and shortly after moving out of? Any help would be very much appreciated. regards, Luke R
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« skrivet: 2019-08-11, 08:20 »
My apologies for writing in English. I have requests for copies of records for an individual within Kristinehamn (S). I would be most thankful for any help to get a copy of the following records please: - Göta Hovrätt - Advokatfiskalen Värmlands län (S) EVIIBAA:1576 (1701) Bild 380 (AID: v279182.b380, NAD: SE/VALA/0382503)
- Kristinehamns rådhusrätt och magistrat (S) AIa:33 (1720) Bild 125 / sid 249 (AID: v66289.b125.s249, NAD: SE/VA/11934)
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« skrivet: 2019-08-11, 08:15 »
My apologies for writing in English. I have requests for copies of records for an individual within Kristinehamn (S). I would be most thankful for any help to get copy of the following record: - any record indicating the birth of Göran CAMITZ whose father was Matthias CAMITZ (1654-1689) and whose mother was Ingeborg Olofsdotter WARNMARK (1659-1749). In later life, Göran CAMITZ appears to have become a soldier to die in Russian captivity after the 1709 Battle of Poltava
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« skrivet: 2019-08-11, 08:03 »
My apologies for writing in English. I have requests for copies of records for an individual within Kristinehamn (S). I would be most thankful for any help to get copies of records for the following: - the record of 1654 birth for Matthias CAMITZ. His father was Georg CAMITZ and his mother was Elisabet URANIA.
- the record Kristinehamn 1645-1683 178101V1 3720 (Matthias CAMITZ to Ingebohr Olufsdotter on 21-07-1675)
- the record of 1689 death for Matthias which hopefully will show how/why he died at the young age of about 35 years.
- residence and details of his family (his wife and children)
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« skrivet: 2019-08-11, 07:55 »
My apologies for writing in English. I have requests for copies of records for an individual within Kristinehamn (S). I would be most thankful for any help to get copies of records for the following: - the record of birth for Elisabet URANIA. She would have been born sometime between the years of 1616 and 1647. Her mother was Margaret NORENIA and her father was Petrus URANIUS.
- the record of a 1653 marriage Georg CAMITZ and Elisabet URANIA
- the record of the 13 Nov 1670 death of Elisabet URANIA
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« skrivet: 2019-06-08, 11:37 »
 Thank you very much huggorm. So much information I hope means lots of understanding. Now my work (as a non-Swedish speaker) really begins!! LOL Thank you again. regards, Luke
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« skrivet: 2019-06-08, 11:14 »
Screenshots in JPG would be fantastic!! Being a primary source big enough to read (and then I can try to get translated) it will allow my objective searching to continue!
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« skrivet: 2019-06-08, 08:32 »
Dear Forum. In the past, I have used subscription to archiv records (when I had much time to really dig deep). I no longer have a subscription. I would very much like to source copies of two particular records however. Is it possible for these to be sourced without taking out a subscription? With HUGE thank you to forum member "compleo", I would like to source digital copies of these two records:
Kristinehamns rådhusrätt och magistrat (S) AIa:33 (1720) Bild 125 / sid 249 (AID: v66289.b125.s249, NAD: SE/VA/11934)[/color][/size][/color]Göta Hovrätt - Advokatfiskalen Värmlands län (S) EVIIBAA:1576 (1701) Bild 380 (AID: v279182.b380, NAD: SE/VALA/0382503)[/size]
These two documents (with the help of "compleo" to identify) are the culmination of searching for over 6 years, and solves so many unknown questions in my line of family history research. Thank you for any help, hints or consideration.
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« skrivet: 2019-05-02, 02:46 »
BREAKTHROUGH!!! Thank you so much "compleo". That information has helped me so VERY VERY much. Now the investigation continues with much excitement and determination!!!
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« skrivet: 2019-04-02, 00:50 »
Available documents for Georg Camitz married to Elisabet Beckman and who died about 1747....
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« skrivet: 2019-04-02, 00:37 »
kristina1... Thank you so much for your interest in my questions (and dillema). It is a very difficult investigation. But I think it is a line of research very much worth following as it seems to be a big hole existing in all current research and printed documentation. The thing is, I do have a Georg Camitz who was definitely alive in the early 1700s, who was married to Elisabet BECKMAN (and I have a copy of his marriage record), and who fathered at least 5 children with Elizabeth/Lisa being 1735 Lars, 1737 Brita Greta, 1738 Lars-Georgien, 1740 twins Anders Georgsson & Giöran (for whom I have copies of their birth records). And from all other available information, he died about 1747 though no actual death record has been found so far. He is a mystery so far as no other researcher, or book that I have found, can place him in the family tree of original and famous Iron master Georg Camitz (1623-1687). But he existed, had the unusual name of CAMITZ, also had some considerable standing in the community, and was also involved in the Iron mill business in the same region of Sweden. As we discussed briefly before, there is an 11 May 1709 birth record (with 14 May baptism) for twins Georg & Christina with father being “Johan Camitz” and mother “Maja”. The witnesses to that birth/baptism include the names “Clara Camitz”, “Sara Camitz, “Maja Ekebohm” “Stina Wester”. Is it logical to assume then that the parents of these twin children were the same Johan Camitz (1681-1741) that was married to Maria Wester (1681-1761). But if so, then why is this 11 May 1709 birth information not included in the book transcript (author Oscar Fredrik Strokirk) which you kindly posted earlier? Is it possible that the author Strokirk did not have all the facts when he wrote his book in the late 1800s? Remembering that at the time Strokirk wrote his book, he would not have had access to the vast amount of digitalised information currently available, or the powerful search tools we now have. So if we were to take the 18th century authors book as definitive knowledge, who then were the parents Johan Camitz and wife Maria, who had twin children all with Camitz, Ekebohm and Wester witnesses to their birth? IF the Georg Camitz I am researching was not the eldest twin son of Johan Camitz (1681-1741), then who was he in relation to the patriarch Georg Camitz (1623-1687)? There is another possibility and that is that the Georg Camitz I am researching (and who died about 1747), may have been a child born in 1674 of the second marriage of the patriarch Georg Camitz (1623-1687). But I am yet to find out any definite information on the existance of that child. And there may yet be other Georg Camitz alive in that period of time, but I have only the two possible "suspects" at the moment. Yes, krinstina1, I have looked through that older thread many times. I does not provide any assistance in clarifying the existence of a Georg CAMITS who definitely existed with documented marriage and children (according to original parish records). But so far, I have found no researcher or book with any mention of him. So I am very much left wondering, "who was he"?
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« skrivet: 2019-04-01, 04:08 »
Thank you very much for that picture and reference kristina1. What I need to work out now, is whether the George mentioned, lived on or if he died (definitively).
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« skrivet: 2019-04-01, 03:58 »
Hi Kristina1. Thank you for your searching however you have identified another Georg Camitz within the family tree. There were a number of descendants of the Camitz family patriarch Georg Camitz (born 1623 and dying 1687) who shared the name. The Georg Camitz I am seeking the death record for was married to Elisabet Beckman per the photo I attached. He appears to have died about 1747 as he had no further children with his wife, tax records ended for him, and a 1747 parish notation for "Georen Kametz" indicating his death along with naming his wife "Lisa Beckman" and sons "Lars" and "Anders".
I am hoping that a record for his death may give clues as to his Date of Birth (or age at death) which will then allow me to clarify where he fits in the family tree in relation to the original Camitz patriarch.
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« skrivet: 2019-03-31, 14:03 »
Thank you Maud!!
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« skrivet: 2019-03-31, 12:57 »
Thank you very much Maud Svensson. Do you think Captain Frumerie is one male witness and the Goldsmith Lars Beckman is a second male witness? Or is Lars Beckman both a Captain Frumerie and a Goldsmith?
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« skrivet: 2019-03-31, 12:27 »
I am searching for any record at all for the death of a Georg (or Gioran or variation of name) Camitz (or Kammits or Kametz or variation of name). His death occurred definitely between the years 1746-1747, most likely in the parish region of Kristinehamn of Värmlands. But his wife Elisabet BECKMAN apparently had roots in Örebro län so I am not absolutely sure about the place of death for Georg. Attached is their marriage record. I have some other later records of Georg Camitz for the births of his children, but it is very much a death record for a Georg Camitz that I am seeking. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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« skrivet: 2019-03-31, 12:07 »
In this birth record is mentioned Lars BECKMAN (God father of the child?). He is recorded as a "Capitein Trumene" (Captain of Drums?). Do the next words identify what regiment he was with? If this is a record from the Örebro region, what regiment would be most likely please? If a member of the forum could translate this record for me, it would be very much appreciated.
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« skrivet: 2019-03-31, 10:50 »
Hi "bornemann". Absolutely. It is for that reason which I asked the question as the 1709 birth record for the first (and eldest) is written as "Georg".... while there is also another birth record in 1722 for a Göran (though I need to check how the original record is written). So far, I have not been able to find any death record for the first "Georg" so I'm leaving all options open at the moment.
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« skrivet: 2019-03-31, 00:35 »
Krinstina1 with the record you mention "Kristinehamn FbReg:2 (1645-1860) Bild 45 / sid 75 (AID: v188649.b45.s75, NAD: SE/VA/13289)", what would be my best way to find that record (and then I can save the website as my primary resource for future searching)?
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« skrivet: 2019-03-31, 00:20 »
thank you kristina1 I no longer have access to the original archive record where I found my record. From your record, does the date appear to be 11 May 1709 with the "14" date possibly being baptism of either one or both of the twins? My apologies but I am Engish speaking and my family research involves documents often in Swedish, and often in English, and more often during periods when my busy family life only allows. So my memory of terms in Finn and Swedish language as well as the location of various Archive records is a battle. My notes are too detailed that I have too many and often can't find my way back to sources.
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« skrivet: 2019-03-28, 11:45 »
I'm trying to be objective in looking from the beginning.....  So, with this birth record, does it look like twins Georg and Christina?
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« skrivet: 2019-03-25, 15:26 »
Is it possible for a family to have two children with one named "Georg" and another named "Göran"? (born approximately 13 years apart).
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« skrivet: 2012-01-02, 23:05 »
Hello Elisabet. My apologies for writing in English. And also, I reply to this VERY OLD post of yours (10 years old).
You were asking about Christina Camitz f. 1709 i Kristinehamn? Torbjörn Näs provides a birth date for a Kristina Camitz of 1708. I have also found a record for the birth of twins Georg and Christina of 11 May 1709 at Krisinehamm to parents Johan Camitz and Maja (Maria).
I do not know how to post the record in this forum. I must look how to do this if you are still interested after all these years. Please feel free to either message or email me if you would like to discuss further.
sincerely, Luke
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« skrivet: 2011-08-30, 01:39 »
Hello Ulla!
Again, MANY thanks for looking at this. Your translation helps me understand so much re: details of the maid and farmhand mixed into the main family names.
I think your understanding is exactly correct.
re: sid 239. From other sources, it has also been mentioned that Georg (Giöran) Camitz and Elisabet (Lisa) married at home. The father of Elisabet was indeed Lars Beckman. Lars Beckmans wife had the birth name of Malmberg. I notice that there are other Malmberg family members noted on these pages which also helps me fill out the picture better.
I think both the Malmberg and Beckman names were of solid community members (people of some class or stature). Similarly Elisabet would be expected to marry someone of status which is my presumption with Georg (Giöran) Camitz.
The problem remains for me, who is Georg (Giöran) Camitz? I have not details for him prior to this record which you bring to my attention. I am trying very hard to definitively link him to the Camitz family of Kristinehamn but as yet, no luck.
Again, my sincere thanks for all of your help with these two pages of source notes.
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« skrivet: 2011-08-26, 16:09 »
Hello Ulla,
I looked on the page before (A1:2 sidan 239). And on that page I found Giöran Camitz with a note that he was dead, his wife Lisa Beckman, son Lars and son Anders. Also there is a name Stina? Also Catherina? On the top of the page is the date 1747. So this makes sence as tax records would indicate that Giöran Camitz died about 1747 with his wife being noted as a widower in that year. The information on A1:2 sidan 239 provides support to this.
I still do not know who Giöran Camitz was though, where he was from and who his parents in the Camitz lineage might be.
Again, my thanks sincerely for your assistance.
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« skrivet: 2011-08-26, 15:50 »
Hello Ulla,
with regards A1:2 sidan 240. If this refers to the family Giöran (Goran) Camitz and wife Lisa (Elizabeth), then I wonder who Petter, Caisa and Stina are??? Thank you for bringing this reference to my attention as I was not aware of it.
With regards E1:1 bild 42, I have a copy of this document already. But I wonder when it says they were married at home, where home was?
MANY thanks for taking the time to look at this family a little closer for me. It is most appreciated.
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« skrivet: 2011-08-25, 02:08 »
Hi. My apologies for writing in English. Replies in Swedish are no problem for me.
re: Georg CAMITZ and family (married to Elizabet BECKMAN on 14 Nov 1734). Is it possible that the marriage of these two, and the births of their subsequent children are all registered in the Nikolai church of Örebro (for prestige), but the family lived nearby in another parish church region?
I ask this because I can find no records of residence/commune for this family (until abt 1750 when Elisabet as a widower lives in Örebro and therefore has residence/commune in Nikolai Örebro from 1750 onwards).
I ask this because I am trying very hard to trace the lineage of Georg CAMITZ. I can only find information on him in terms of his tax records from 1734 up to his assumed death around 1746.
Thank you.
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« skrivet: 2011-08-24, 06:37 »
Hi. Would anyone have any suggestions where Georg CAMITZ (married to Elisabet BECKMAN of Örebro Nikolai in 1734), and who died about 1747, may fit in to the Camitz family tree of Kristinehamn? With Georg being born so many years ago, he could only have been either a 3rd generation or early 4th generation down from the original Georg (Göran) Matsson CAMITZ (born 1623).
Any suggestions at all would be most appreciated.
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« skrivet: 2011-08-24, 06:30 »
Hi. Are there records of commune (household records) for Kristineham before the years 1730? I am trying to find some indication of whether Georg CAMITZ (born as a twin with sister Christina on 11 May 1709) continued to live or not after his birth. Twin sister Christina did live to adulthood (1709-1761) but I would like some definite proof or not as to whether Georg continued to live. Thank you and my apologies for writing in English. Replies in Swedish are no problem at all for me.
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« skrivet: 2011-08-16, 07:45 »
Using this as a draft source document for quick reference .... http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=DESC&db=janeur&id=I24921 My speculation is that my ancestor Giöran/Georgien/Georg Camitz later of Örebro was born Georg Camitz, a twin to Christina at Kristinehamn on 11 May 1709 (C:2 p 193). The source above identifies this child by the christian name of Johan. Using the reference above, this childs subsequent lot in life appears unknown. Were he to grow up, move cities and die in another city, then this would partially explain why the source above has his future unknown. The source above also demonstrates where the use of name variations can be problematic for other researchers. The original birth record looks quite clearly to me to identify the twins “Georg” and “Christina”. And yet the source above identifies them as “Johan” and “Kristina”. Any thoughts please? Am I really clutching at straws here? Another interesting potential fact. “Twinning” appears to have a biological basis, particularly fraternal twins ie twins have a higher chance of having twins themselves (or their children having twins) than the average population. My ancestor Anders Camitz (born 1740 Nikolai Örebro) was a fraternal twin to Giöran. If the Georg Camitz I identify above is his father, then he too was a fraternal twin (being born with sister Christina 1709 Kristinehamn).
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« skrivet: 2011-08-16, 07:44 »
Hi. I have some speculation to which I would very much appreciate any critique of.
My ancestor is a Camitz who married in Örebro in 1734 to Elisabet Beckman and who died about 1747. During his period of time at Örebro, his name has variably been recorded as:
“Giöran KAMMITS” (when married to Elizabet BECKMAN in 1734)
“Giöran CAMITZ” (when son Lars born 1735)
“Giöran KAMMITZ” (when daughter Brita born 1737)
“Georgien CAMITS” (when son Lars Georgson born 1738)
“Georg CAMITZ” (when son Anders born 1740),
“Giöran KAMITZ” (when son Giöran born 1740).
Even an examination of the 1740 birth records records for the twins Anders and Giöran born 3 days apart, demonstrate this inconsistency of reporting.
There are however no records for elder Giöran/Georgien/Georg CAMITZ (or variation of this surnames spelling) to be found in Nikolai Örebro prior to his 1734 marriage. I am therefore fairly sure, that he was from another city with his move and marriage to Örebro associated with both his marriage and his occupation as a Bruks Bokhållaren.
Now for my speculation................
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« skrivet: 2011-03-14, 00:38 »
Hello Kertin,
I've looked at the two records (Anders and Giöran born 3 days apart). Other than variations made in the spelling ie Georg = Giöran, Elisabet = Lisa, Camits = Kamitz, these two records are children of the same parents. Futher, the godparents/witnesses also included share many of the same names ie Daniel Stenus,Inspector Giöran Lothman and Fru (lady) Hoffman, Brita Stina Beckman. I am mystified. I can think of no other explanation other than them being Fraternal twins but no mention of this is made.....
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« skrivet: 2011-03-13, 23:28 »
Hello Kerstin,
a couple of quick questions please (until I can get my own copy of the birth record). For the child born 1740-07-1740. Does the birth record indicate a baptism date as well as a birth date? I'm working on the hard to believe theory that Anders and Georg (Giöran) were fraternal twins born three days apart...... It appears to have been a Swedish practice at the time to have children baptised within days of birth. Would a still born child still be baptised?
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« skrivet: 2011-03-13, 23:04 »
Hello Kertin. You post poses many interesting questions. Firstly, do you think it worth my while to get a subscription to www.svar.ra.se just so I can copy the taxation records for George CAMTIZ? I am not familiar with the Tax records and therefore do not know what or how much information they contain. From your post, I am assuming that there is a record for Georg Camitz every year up till 1747? This is excellent as he was married in 1734 and does not appear to have been born either born or a resident of Örebro before that year. The Tax records provide further substantiation of this. Secondly, I also do not have a subscription of Archiv Digital any more but I think I should get one again. The birth refer to has me very intrigued. Both the name Beckman and Camitz are very few in the Örebro Nikolai records. And certainly, there is only one George Camitz married to Lisa Beckman of Örebro Nikolai. IF there was indeed another son born of George and Lisa 3 days apart, then one explanation (though highly unlikely) is the birth of a twin (born three days later). Certainly, if it had been a twin, it did not survive as in 1751, there lived only the mother Elisabeth (Lisa) and two sons Lars-Georgien (born 21 Oct 1738) and Anders (born 20 Jul 1740). If not a twin born three days later, then what possible explanation could there be for this birth??? Quite an amazing find you have noted Kerstin and one which I need very much clarify. (Meddelandet ändrat av Camitz 2011-03-13 23:10)
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« skrivet: 2011-03-13, 10:31 »
Hello Kerstin. Again, my sincere thanks. I am yet to view these records however I have your notes and references safely recorded for future use. MANY thanks. The 1747 record is interesting because George died sometime between 1741 and 1748. It is entirely possible that he was dead in 1747.
A question though....... why would there only be 3 tax records ie 1735, 1747 & 1748? Was tax an intermittant payment?
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« skrivet: 2011-03-08, 13:27 »
Hi Kent. Yes, I have that information but still need something more definitive in terms of parents and/or siblings. I'm hoping someone has Brita in a family tree. Many thanks sincerely though for your time and efforts.
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« skrivet: 2011-03-08, 02:48 »
Hi. Brita Malmberg born 1685. Married to Lars Beckman on 24 October 1711 at Nikolai Church, Örebro, Sweden (Örebro Nikolai EI:1). I have no other information on Brita Malmberg in terms of who her brothers and sisters were, who her parents were or even where she might have been born. Has anyone got this woman Brita Malmberg born 1685 in their family tree? I would love to hear from you or more about her. Thanks, Luke
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« skrivet: 2011-03-07, 15:48 »
Thank you very much Chris and Åke.
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« skrivet: 2011-03-07, 15:22 »
Many thanks for that information Kerstin. With regard to the 1735 taxation book record, could you recount the information for me pertaining to George Camitz (exactly as it is written)? With regards to 1747, why do you think he is dead ie could you recount what page 112 indicates? From my research to date, I think he was most likely to have died by then. His last surviving child was born in 1940 with no other surviving children born after theat date. Unfortunately, I have found no records to date which give a date of death for George Camitz.
With regard to the taxation records, could you advise me as to where they can be found?
With regard to Örebro F2:8, my subscription to Arkiv Digital has just expired. However I likewise went through some of the magistrat records between the years 1741 - 1750, and could find no mention of George Camitz.
He certainly existed in Örebro, and appears the only Georg Camitz. But his records are very patchy ie no HFL records can be found for him.
MANY thanks for taking the time to search Kerstin. Most appreciated.
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« skrivet: 2011-03-02, 01:16 »
Would anyone be able to tell me a little about the history and use of Nikolai church in Örebro. Particularly the time period 1700-1740. Going through the records, there don't seem to be very many marriages but the people recorded all appear to have some middleclass or higher status. All appear to have surnames rather than patrinomics. Also there are a high percentage of military men. I also notice that with baptism records, these are very detailed including for those of the early 1700s. And yet the HFL records are not so well maintained. Further, many of those who have detailed baptism records do not appear to have HFL records for them or their families.  ? In the early 1700s, was it possible that Nikolai church was used by persons of status for marriages and baptisms, yet these families may have resided in neighbouring parishes and it is in those smaller parish records that the HFL records were maintained?
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« skrivet: 2011-03-01, 10:53 »
Thank you Åke. But I'm looking for some-one with copies of the actual GMR records (records taken every 3 years). I need to get as much definitive information as possible. Most importantly, I need to source (if possible) information upon recruitment of the soldier I have in mind (possibly his birth name before being assigned a soldier name).
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« skrivet: 2011-03-01, 10:48 »
The baptism records for the children are all readily available in the Nikolai church Örebro records. Its only after 1741-1750 that there is a problem of missing records.
However the HFL records for the period of time that the marriage occurred and the children were born for Nikolai church Örebro (1734-1741) are also complete however there is absolutely no record of residence for any of these individuals or the family anywhere in the Nikolai church Örebro (AI:2 1707-1747) files.
Still has me confused......
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« skrivet: 2011-03-01, 09:11 »
So now I am stuck.
Elisabet Beckman born 21 Aug 1712 and baptised in Nikolai church Örebro(C:2 1693-1741)
Elisabet Beckman married to Gioran Kammits on 14 Nov 1734 in Nikolai church Örebro (EI:1 1693-1820)
Records of baptism for 4 children of Georg Camits (Kammitz/Camitz/Camits) and wife Elisabet Beckman with all 4 children (Lars, Brita Stina, Lars Georgien & Anders) baptised in Nikolai church Örebro(C:2 1693-1741) between the years 1735 - 1740.But I have no records of residence (no HFL records) for this family in the Örebro, Nikolai records. I only know that he was a Bruks Bokhållaren so likely the family's residence was near one of the steel mills in close vicinity of Nikolai church, Örebro but served by another parish in terms of HFL records.
The only HFL records I can find are for Elisabet and her two surviving children (Lars and Anders) are from 1751 onwards. It appears Georg Camitz has died sometime between 1741 - 1751. His wife and children have then taken up residence in Örebro city (Rotan 12. Nr. 147). Records of residence are easy to find for Elizabet for all the following years (including her remarriage and birth of another child years later) from 1751 but nothing earlier.
The detailed baptism records of Elizabets children would suggest she had some status in life. Further,the Örebro Nikolai magistrat record for the 1788 Örebro death of her son Lars Georgian Camits further supports some minor degree of status for this family.
However I cannot place Georg Camits exact date and place of death, or the place of his families residence while he was alive (prior to 1750). Would anyone have any suggestions as to what parish regions lie very close to Örebro, with such parish regions having steel mills? It would have to be close enough to justify Elisabet and Georg to make a trip to Nikolai church, Örebro to both marry, and to have their children baptised. I could then search the files of these neighbouring parishes for some evidence of Georg Camitz existance/residence/death.
It is all I can think of as a possibility.....
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« skrivet: 2011-03-01, 06:09 »
Would some-one have an index for the Örebro Nikolai Magistrat F2:7 adn F2:8 records? Georg Camits appears to have died sometime between the years 1741-1751. I am searching for any record pertaining to him. Its a slow process doing it page by page.
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« skrivet: 2011-03-01, 02:51 »
Kerstin: Many thanks! I can also now see that there are two family records for Elisabet Beckman in Örebro Nikolai AI:2, one completed approx 1751 with 1753 annotation and another completed approx 1764 (which you point out). Both records with closer examination indicate the name Olof Lindblad. So the earlier 1751 record was updated with new husban Olof Lindblad's name subsequent to the apparent 1753 marriage.
Kerstin: I am most appreciative of you pointing out the 1764 entry. My principal research interest is the name Anders Camitz (born 1740) who appears to have become in later years the soldier Anders Brunman (soldier nr 1069) of the Österbottens regemente, Närpes Kompani. The entry you point out shows that Anders CAMITZ (born 1740) departed Örebro approx 1764. This fits with the soldier Anders Brunman (born in Örebro 1740 as recorded in the regements 1770 roll) joining the military in Apr 1767. Brunman being his assigned soldier name.
Of note to this Camitz thread, all my searching of the name Camitz (and variations Camits/Kamitz/Kammitz) in the Örebro Nikolai records have to date only found a Georg (Gioran) Kammits who married an Elisabet BECKMAN (born 21 Aug 1712 though sometimes recorded in later HFL records as born 1711) and their two surviving sons Lars (1738) & Anders (1740). Further, I have found no record as yet for Georg/Gioran Camitz (or any other Camitz) in Örebro Nikolai prior to his 1734 record of marriage. This suggests that he originated from another district (I'm thinking Kristineham). Further, his occupation at marriage is that of Bruks Bokhållaren (many thanks to Johansson on another thread for her assistance with this information). This provides more support to Georg Camitz of Örebro being related to the Steel Mill Camitz's of the Kristineham region. More work is needed though as I try to definitively establish this link.
I am most appreciative of all the help to date in my research. It would likely have taken me weeks on my own to find what I have in days with forum help. Thank you!
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« skrivet: 2011-03-01, 02:36 »
Thank-you very much for this additional information Chris Bingefors.
Also thank you Britt-Marie. I will not continue the discussions here in this thread but instead will continue them in the Camitz thread in the swedish discussion. This should prevent a double up of research/input
(Meddelandet ändrat av Camitz 2011-03-01 02:39)
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« skrivet: 2011-02-27, 13:08 »
Hi Kerstin. You are absolutely correct. Monumental blue on my part. I have no idea how I could have gotten 1719 from 1712. I have made corrections accordingly. This 1712 date also fits with the post by Britt-marie where she notes the the record AI:3 Örebro Nicolai p 23 showing:
Lisa Beckman b 1711 (married 1753?)
S Lars Camitz b 1738
S Anders b 1740
These are the same two people though how the recordkeeper back in that time made a small anomalie in indicating a 1711 birthdate rather than the correct 1712. The 1753 date however is no doubt most significant but in what manner is yet to be determined.
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« skrivet: 2011-02-27, 11:40 »
Hi Chris. Would you kindly be able to look a little closer at that document again and advise me please (I cannot read Swedish and am unfamiliar with the magistrat document). Could you tell me the significance of the names Lars G Camitz and Fred Bollinger on the scanned scrap of paper at the bottom of Bild 667 (is these old IOU signatures or are these the magistrat document witness signatures?). There is the same thing L G Camitz written on the bottom of Bild 668.
In further substantiating the death of George Camitz, I did a search of Örebro Nikolai F:1 (1693-1820) Bild 105. Am I correct in this being a record of death for a Lars Camitz on 11 Aug 1788? If so, is it possible that the Lars Camitz in that record, is the same person as the Georg Camitz in the Magistrat record which is really the same person as the Lars Georgien Camitz who was born on 21 Oct 1738 (Örebro Nikolai C:2 1693-1741 Bild 348? If it is, then he would have died at approx age 50 which would seem a bit premature. Does the Magistrat document hint of cause of death?
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« skrivet: 2011-02-27, 03:23 »
Hello Kristina. My apologies for the overlap of the threads. I was not sure where exactly was the best place to place my query ie under the English questions section, or under the family C in what is mostly Swedish discussion threads. Hello Britt-marie. MANY thanks for your information. I have searched much page by page of Archiv Digital last night and your information fits (confirms) much of what I found ie the children and the marriage. My problem lies in locating the birth of Elisabet. You will notice the more detailed information I included in the thread that Kristina notes. Essentially, I have found a birth record for Elisabet BECKMAN (21 Aug 1719) but this makes her 15 at marriage and 16 at birth of her fist child Lars. I could not find the birth of any Elisabet BECKMAN in Örebro Nicolai for 1711 though. !!! MANY thanks for the information regarding A1:3 I shall now try to find that page, look at this closer and see if it gives me clues. I am most sincerely thankful for all your information, in addition to the information on Göran Camitz of Krintineham. This seems the most likely hypothesis so far which is most exciting.
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« skrivet: 2011-02-27, 02:55 »
Many thanks Bo and Kristina. I am new to both Swedish record keeping and to this forum. Searching page by page late last night through digital Arkiv records, I found the birth records of Lars (13 Dec 1735) and Lars Georgien (22 Oct 1738). I also found another child Brita Greta (26 Mar 1737). The record you found Bo, is almost definitely their marriage as no other children were born of a Georg/Gioran Camits/Kammits and Elisabet Beckman prior to 1735.
I also found a birth record for an Elisabet Beckman in Örebro, Nikolai of 21 Aug 1712 (earlier, I had mistakenly thought this was 1719). This would have placed Elisabet at approx 22 yrs when married which fits neatly with the other information I have. The birth record for Elisabet indicates her fathers name as Lars and the first born of Georg and Elisabet was also named Lars. Therefore, there is a good chance I have the same Elisabet.
MANY thanks Bo for the Bruks Bokhållaren (factory accountant) information. This goes a little way to supporting my hypothesis that the Camits I am researching is a relative of the Camits family of Kristineham who were dominant in the construction/ownership/management of the regions steel mills.
MANY thanks again to you both for all your help so far.
(Meddelandet ändrat av Camitz 2011-02-27 13:00)
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« skrivet: 2011-02-26, 09:36 »
Hi, I am looking for some-one with expertise on the GMR records or any other records for the Närpes kompani Österbottens regemänte. I am looking for records from 1767 to 1793. Please contact me if you can assist me. I would be most appreciative. sincerely, Luke
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« skrivet: 2011-02-26, 03:47 »
Hi. I am seeking information about Anders born 20 Jul 1740 (Örebro, Nikolai C:2 1693-1741). He is the son of Georg Camitz and Elizabet Beckman. I am having difficulties finding the marriage or residence records for this family. I also cannot find any marriage record the parents. Are they related to the Camitz family of Kristineham and if so, where is the link from Georg back to his family in Kristineham? Any help would be most welcome
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« skrivet: 2011-02-26, 02:36 »
Anders, son of Georg Camitz and Elizabet Beckman, born 20 Jul 1740 (Örebro, Nikolai C:2 1693-1741). Mother Elizabet likely 21 yrs old at time of birth. Looking for the marriage record of Georg Camitz and Elizabet Beckman, presumably at Örebro. I have access (for 1 week) to the Arkiv Digital website but am having no luck. Can any-one assist me with this lookup (or any other information associated with this family).
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