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Särskilda ämnen & övrigt => Discussions in English => General questions => Ämnet startat av: Jonathan Bryan skrivet 2012-09-15, 01:24
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I've got two mysteries that I need help with. Firstly, I've got a household record showing Sven Andersson's daughter Emelia Maria born Oct 21, 186_ in ______. I can't figure out the local.
Secondly, Maria left for America in April/May (actually, I believe the date is on that doc). I found her in America married to Fred (Frithiof) CARLSON. On the passage over she is listed as Maria BERGSTROM. On her marriage record and death record she is listed as Maria/Mary (middle name Emma on death cert) BERGSTROM. Her father's name is mentioned as Sven ANDERSON (mother Anna). Her sister came over later and her name is given as Selma Albertina BERGSTROM. As noted on the husforhor, there is no mention anywhere of BERGSTROM. I have given you minimal amount of information on her; suffice it to say, I have much more proving all the above. So.....
Question: how did she and her sister end up with that surname? Perhaps Sven Anderson is a step father? Does the husforhor give any clues?
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Please tell us which household record you are referring to. Parish, years, page?
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Jonathan
I have given you minimal amount of information on her is an understatement. A reference linked to the first question would be the only way to help. Also doesn't the parish have a birth register you can check?
Similarly on the second point, you only give enough information to make a general comment. So. Does the husforhor give any clues? Probably. Are the two names possible? Yes. For example if the father was some kind of craftsman, his patronymic name would be Sven Andersson and his full name Sven Andersson Bergström, but he would also be Sven Bergström. His daughter Maria would be Maria Svensdotter or Maria Bergström.
John
(Meddelandet ändrat av johnb 2012-09-15 11:20)
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We might make it even worse :-)
Maria and Selma have the patronymicon Svensdotter in CD Emibas, when leaving Sweden
Maria left the parish in March 1879 and Selma in March 1882.
Maria was born in Habo and Selma in Blidsberg. Below is the records from Emibas that can be used to dig deeper in the two sister's naming mystery
Post 619612
Svensdotter, Emelia Maria
Dotter (unmarried woman)
b. 10/21/1862 in Habo, Skaraborgs län (Västergötland)
Emigrated 4/23/1879
from Smedslyckan Tåsteboängen, Börstig, Skaraborgs län (Västergötland)
to Amerika
Source: Household Examination Roll, p. 75
Emibas migration file ID: Börstig R 1879 002
Post 619657
Svensdotter, Selma Albertina
Dotter (unmarried woman)
b. 4/30/1866 in Blidsberg, Älvsborgs län (Västergötland)
Emigrated 3/21/1882
from Smedslyckan och Tåsteboänge, Börstig, Skaraborgs län (Västergötland)
to Amerika
Source: Household Examination Roll, p. 74
Emibas migration file ID: Börstig R 1882 009
Looking into CD Emigranten gives us the information that they travell as Maria Bergström from Börstig, leaving Gothenburg April 25 1879, source code 13:137:6517 ansd Selma Bergström from Börstig leaving Gothenburg April 7, 1882, source code 19:445:9223
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I can add that when Hulda Natalia (another sister) CD Emibas has
Post 532707
Svensdotter, Hulda Natalia
Hemmansägardotter (unmarried woman)
b. 12/24/1869 in Börstig, Skaraborgs län (Västergötland)
Emigrated 9/2/1887
from Källestorp, Blidsberg, Älvsborgs län (Västergötland)
to Amerika
Source: Household Examination Roll, p. 9
Emibas migration file ID: Blidsberg P 1887 019
and in Emigranten
H N Bergström Sven from Blidsberg, se Svensson, leaving Gothenburg 1887 09 16 for Chicago, source code 33:97:2402
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I had since posting rather guessed the younger sister was likely the Selma Albertina who can be found in the 1880 census just where Mats has put above. Family there is
Andersson, Sven 1834 Far
Johansdotter, Anna Kajsa 1836 Mor
(Barn), Selma Albertina 1866 Barn
(Barn), Hulda Natalia 1869 Barn
(Barn), Ada Josefina 1871 Barn
(Barn), Enok Gideon 1873 Barn
(Barn), Karl Simeon 1876 Barn
(Barn), Ester Paulina 1878 Barn
So the clue to Bergström as I had originally wondered might be in the location Smedslyckan. Father a smith, even if listed as Lägenhetsägare ? It would fit.
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And brother Carl Simon and sister Ester Paulina changes their name to Källman
Source Blidsberg AIIa:1 (1900-1911) Bild 430 / sid 34 (AID: v224072.b430.s34, NAD: SE/GLA/13037)
Ida Josefin keeos Svensdotter and Enok Gideon keeps Svensson
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I can't see that the father is a smith, but he is born in Blidsberg, and the two youngest emigrants as well. Emilia Maria is born in Habo, but lived partly in Blidsberg, so the name can come from the latter part of that name (or just from imagination :-) )
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Dear responders,
Thanks for your response. I included a photo of the hushorfor on my original post. However, this morning (in the US), I notice that their is NO record attached. Why? I don't know. Instead of re-attaching the photo, I'll link my post to the identical post I used at ancestry.com message board. On that post, you can download the image.
Thanks.
A couple of folks have responded over there, but I haven't yet read what they've said. Link:
http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.scan-balt.sweden.counties.vastragotaland/2 87/mb.ashx
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So,
After reading the above, Bergstrom is a smith name? Perhaps her father, grandfather or great grandfather was a smith?
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My great grandfather and his brother changed their surname from Jansson to Haglund, when they emigrated to the U.S. in 1882 resp. 1881. Haglund derives from the namne of their farm in Sweden Hagen. It was very popular to change patronymic names to a combination name in the late 19th centrury, unfourtunately everyone cannot be as lucky as my famliy to know the origin of their family name. But there's method in it:
Besides patronymic names, the second most common form of surnames in Sweden are combination names, always consisting out of elements (see list below). Often the terms used in names resemble nature elements such as hills, mountains, different sorts of trees, lakes, etc. Even newly created surnames - many people in Sweden change their common patronymic name into a more individual surname - often follow this scheme
The most commom Swedish combination surnames are:
Lindberg
Lindström
Lindgren
Lundberg
Bergström
Lundgren
Berglund
Sandberg
Sjöberg
Forsberg
Lindqvist
Engström
Eklund
Holmberg
Nyström
Lundqvist
(Meddelandet ändrat av ingmarie 2012-09-15 21:05)
(Meddelandet ändrat av ingmarie 2012-09-15 21:06)
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Mats,
Why would the siblings change their name to Källman? Was it because they stayed behind when the other siblings left for the US or other locals?
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So, Bergstrom can mean 'smith'---I'm assuming denoting mountain power or source?--could the refer to travel by ocean, as in mountain stream? So Kallman for those who stayed and Bergstrom for those who left?
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Here is Selma's birth record from Blidsberg, Alvsborg, April 30 1866.
Once again, I'll load an image....if it doesn't work, I'll load it to the ancestry.com link so it can be viewed.
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Hello Jonathan
Bergström does not mean Smith. But the words berg means rather rock and ström means current as of water current. There are a lot of families named Bergström and some of the were Smiths in the nineteenth century.
Kerstin
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Bergström doesn't mean smith, but mountain and (water)stream. But there are families of smiths, whose family name is Bergström for example in Värmland.
I suppose that the siblings left in Sweden used Källman instead of Bergström becuase they were born at Källestorp. In Sweden you cold change your surname to whatever you wanted before 1901.
(Meddelandet ändrat av ingmarie 2012-09-15 22:10)
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Thank you ladies,
I can see a connection. Water is vital in smithing, and iron which is mined from the mountain, is the main source, so I thought it a 'play on words'.
Selma's birth record shows her fathers occupation, but I can't translate it. I've attached as I stated above. Any translations?
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I think the birth record tell us that Selma's father is some kind of crofter in Mellanåsen under Blidsberg Skatte. Please correct me if I'm wrong
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The fathers occupation from the birthbook (the copy showed on Ancestry is from a copy sent to the Swedish Statiscal bureu) is Förpantningsegaren followed by the name of the place
Source: Blidsberg C:3 (1817-1867) Bild 54 / sid 99 (AID: v43083.b54.s99, NAD: SE/GLA/13037)
förpantnings=mortgaging ägare=owner, land owner perhaps the person is a mortgage holder, or is an owner with a mortgage
I can't see any connections to blacksmith, I still belive the took Berg from Blidsberg.
Källman is, as already written above, of course from Källestorp
(Meddelandet ändrat av mats 2012-09-15 23:34)
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Being unfamiliar with the word crofter, I googled it, and I believe this is your meaning (from Wikipedia):
in Scandinavian languages (mostly Swedish) torp means a small dwelling, such as a cottage, with a small leased farm area cultivated by its inhabitants, similar to a croft
EDIT: Given Mats response below, perhaps he was an owner of a tenant farm that he leased out? I guess the occupation is still somewhat confusing to me....
(Meddelandet ändrat av Joniterp 2012-09-15 23:38)
(Meddelandet ändrat av Joniterp 2012-09-15 23:58)
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Thanks Mats,
That seems consistent in both sets of siblings.
I am having trouble with translating Blidsberg...is Blid/Blids a mountain?
EDIT: I corrected a mistake in my translation. I gather
Blidsberg = gentle mountain.
(Meddelandet ändrat av Joniterp 2012-09-16 00:06)
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Mats,
Furthermore, there is a stream that runs through Blidsberg. Perhaps they owned property on this stream. Bergstrom would then make perfect sense.
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Also,
I know that in Denmark, when it became apparent that so many citizens had identical surnames, that the government than tried to get them to take on new and different names (after trying to get them at first to keep the same family names). Perhaps this was true in Sweden as well? So Sven's children complied? Still, BERGSTROM, isn't exactly an uncommon name...right?
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I don't think it is possible to translate Blidsberg and get an understanding of the meaning. The parish has been called Blixberg, Blysbärghe and similar names through the history that goes many hundred years back. I just see it as a name untill an historic expert can desribe the origin
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The origin and meaning of the first element of Blidsberg is uncertain, according to Svenskt ortnamnslexikon (dictionary of Swedish place names), which gives two possible explanations: the old male name Bligh (Bligh's hill) or the old Swedish word blidh, a place with mild weather.
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I am very sorry now that I suggested that he was a smith. It was really only an attempt at an explanation. But from my own observations (and I am very happy to be corrected) village folk at that time (1880 and in Halland) kept their patronymic names unless they were of some real importance or had a skilled trade. I was looking for that trade. Twenty years later it was different. It was also not the same in towns. Townfolk were somewhat more likely to have individual names.
I have searched my Halland Befolkning CD and looked at the occupation of those with the name Bergström over the years. All trades were covered by that name so if the father had a trade, it could have been anything. But I have read the above postings carefully, there is no suggestion either that the father had a special trade or ever used the name Bergström ?
Since Jonathan would surely like some rational explanation I concur with Ing-Marie. That the girls when emigrating did not want the common name Svensson and seized the chance to change. I see from Disbyt and from the 1880 census that there were Bergströms in Blidsberg in earlier years so they might have heard the name and liked it enough to adapt it as their own. I also concur with the link of Bergström and Blidberg through berg. I like to think that my ancestor Per Segerlund took the name because the family farm was Lunden, incorporating lund (grove) into his name.
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Yes, and it was not unusual that emigrants changed their names when they arrived in the U.S, like my great grandfather Anders and his brother. (Anders kept his new surename when he returned to Sweden in 1886). Sometimes it's easy to derive the origin of a new surename and sometimes the answer is simply that they chose a name they liked!
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Thank you all very much for your help! I hope you don't mind my pestering you with more mysteries to me in the future!!
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Hi there Jonathan! Someone here in the forum did mention that Sven could have been a smith- but in Husförhör from Blidsberg,Älvsborg 1880-1900 there is a note above Svens name and it looks like skomaker = shoemaker--
This is from AI:8 page 9 or if anyone uses Genline it has got GID:578.23.1600
May be someone could help with reading the note--if I read it wrong???
Kari Elisabeth
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When Sven Andersson left Blidsberg on 4 Nov.1867, from Mellomåsen [page 43]
going to Borstig, he is shown as a skomakaren - Utflyttning volume B:3, Bild 10
(https://forum.rotter.se/discus/messages/2450/363803.jpg)
When Sven passes away during 1920 in Blidsberg, he is again described as skomakaren:
(https://forum.rotter.se/discus/messages/2450/363804.jpg)
Karen V.
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Hi Kari Elisabeth!
The note in AI:8 for sure read skomakare, but it say something more that possibly could be interpreted as smed, but that is unlikely to be correct. I can't figure out what it means, it looks like psed. or pred. or something like that.
Leif
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Perhaps pred= predikant= Nonconformist minister.
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Hi Leif and Bo!
I came to think about something from a Norwegian Census,it said skomager for egen regning which means that the shoemaker was self-employed--- could these letters mean something like that???
Just a thought
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No, nothing indicates that.
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I thought village shoemakers were all essentially self employed. In fact often itinerant and listed under Sockens slut.
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Yes, but pred. has nothing to do with self employment.