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Särskilda ämnen & övrigt => Discussions in English => General questions => Ämnet startat av: Carol Kemp skrivet 2021-05-17, 22:05
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Jan Andersson (25 Jul 1747) Bremon, Ramsnäs, Finnerödja is my 3rd great-grandfather. He had 8 children. I have been able to trace 4 of them but am finding it difficult to trace the other four:
Anders (20 Aug 1777), Stina (14 Aug 1778), Olof (10 Apr 1785) and Jacob (8 Jul 1787). Maybe Anders died at an early age as I cannot find anything on him. I did find a record for Stina in Korterud, [/size]sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0050089_00116 (http://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0050089_00116), but did not see her past 1809. There is a reference for Olof that he left Bremon in 1805 but I cannot read the name of the place, [/color][/size]sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0050089_00107. I looked in the Moving Out records but don’t see him in that year. I also found a record for Jacob that says that he left Bremon in 1810 for Askersund, but I don’t see any records for Moving In to that parish for that year. Are there other records that would help me trace these ancestors? And I don’t want to look through the entire household records for Askersund, which I started doing but gave up on after many pages. Thanks for any help and/or suggestions. Carol[/color]
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Found Jacob in Hammar parish (registersökning in AD). He came there directly from Finnerödja in 1810.
Looks to me that he leaves for Gothenburg (?) in 1813....and there is a blurry comment on the right side which I cannot read...
Sorry I only have references for AD:
Hammar (T) AI:3a (1810-1821) Bild 105 / sid 101 (AID: v51337.b105.s101, NAD: SE/ULA/10366)
Hammar (T) AI:3b (1810-1821) Bild 285 / sid 280 (AID: v51338.b285.s280, NAD: SE/ULA/10366)
Maybe someone can translate those references and perhaps also read the comment?
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Kristina,
Thanks for your help. I also see a Stina Jansdotter on the second reference but as there is no date by her name, I don't know if this is his sister or not. Probably just a coincidence.
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The note on Jacob in AI3b (Riksarkivet: C0000610_00291 (https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0000610_00291)) says, I think
"handelsm[an] Magn[us] (something)
i Göteb[org] Kyrkogatan"
Trader Magnus (something, possibly starting with J or P, but don't hold me to that ...). Kyrkogatan is as central as you get in Gothenburg, so it should be Domkyrkoförsamlingen.
Don't know if that helps...
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Staffan:
Yeah! I found him at sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0006323_00064 after figuring how to read the register. Thanks for the Domkyr...reference. However, I'm not sure where to go from here. I don't know what it says to the right of Finnerodja. I also found a possible marriage in ancestry.com on 1 Feb 1818 at Jorlande, Goteborg Och Bohus; but not sure where to look for the record to verify that it's the right Jacob Jansson. Carol
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Carol!
Here is the marriage record for Jacob Jansson in the parish of Jörlanda (O).
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0041262_00029.
When looking in the Household Examination Records you can see that this Jakob was born 1783 Oct 16. Not your Jakob
Look at page 3 and "Stora Håby" you will find him and his wife Anna Andersdotter https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0041245_00121
Per
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OK. Thanks. Ancestry gives lots of hints - many not useful. Carol
Of course, if I knew Swedish geograpy better it might help. I use google maps sometimes just to see how close places are to see if the records might be valid.
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Hi again!
You will find your Jakob in moving registers as Moving in (I) and Moving out (U) as follow (enclosed picture). This is not at the "Riksarkivet" only in Arkiv Digital
Göteborgs Domkyrkoförsamling (O) FlReg:4 (1762-1860) Bild 100 / sid 189 (AID: v188666.b100.s189, NAD: SE/GLA/13180)
The cerificate for his moving in to Göteborg "A1813:643" you will find here:
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0016844_00230 (https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0016844_00230)
When he moved out ref "U1826:157" Jakob was betrothed!
Referring to "A1826:2356" his becomimg wife is namned maid Stina Lisa Sjögren from Örebro.
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0016849_00309
Per
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Oh, what a bounty of information! You'll like this one: Göteborgs Gustavi eller Domkyrkoförsamlings kyrkoarkiv, Inflyttningsattester, SE/GLA/13180/H II a/3 (1811-1813), bildid: C0040625_00235 (https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0040625_00235). It's the "flyttsedel", the paper he had to carry when he moved. This one has actually followed him from Finnerödja 1810, to Hammar, and on to Göteborg 1813. It records a child he admitted to being the father of ...
In the center is the "betyg" he got from assistant vicar (komminister) Per Sjogerström in Finnerödja 1810-09-30, when he was moving to Askersund, but changed that to Hammar. He is reasonably good at his christianity, is not engaged, and has had smallpox as a child.
Below that is the "betyg" from vice-pastor Skagerström , dated 1813-09-13, that he is moving to Götheborg, with unchanged "betyg". The one thing is that he has not shown an "orlovssedel", proof that he has been given leave to change his employment, but he does have a paper from the vicarage in Hammar giving permission (maybe this means Skagerström is in an neighbouring parish, but that doesn't explain how the original "flyttsedel" ended up with him ... hmm?)
At the top is a note added by someone named Bagge, that tells of a later arrived "attest" from vice pastor Skagerström, saying that Jacob has fathered a child, with the maid Stina Lisa Sjögren from Örebro, and that she has been churched (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churching) as his wife, i.e. he has promised to marry her.
And finally, on the left is the beginning of a moving-out text, crossed out, and under that is written "Demitterad till Walda 6/2 1826" -- moved to Walda 1826-02-06. It turns out, when you read the "flyttsedel" he brings back from Walda 5 months later, that he was in such a hurry that he didn't ask for permission.
All of the records from the index:
Moving-in-record 1813: https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0040591_00068
The "flyttsedel" (above): https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0040625_00235
Moving-out-record 1826: https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0040593_00088
Coming back to Göteborg, a few months later, on June 30: https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0040591_00125
And the flyttsedel for that: https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0040630_00312
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Wow! Per & Staffan: Thanks for all the information. You are right, Staffan, it is a trove! I will look at all the records carefully. Carol
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Staffan:
Was he in such a hurry to avoid getting married? And did he finally marry in 1826? Carol
Thanks for all the detail. I looked at all the records. I can't imagine having to have papers to move from one place to another.
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Olof Jansson moved in 1805, I think, to something I cannot read. Can anyone interpret the place name?[/size]
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0050089_00107
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Carol!
On the Certifacate for moving regarding the maid Stina Lisa Sjögren you can see that the child (boy) with Jakob as father was born 1812 Sept 22 and christened at the Sept 22 to Carl Jakob. Stina Lisa was att that time 22 years old. Further the child died 1812 Oct 29 in Örebro.
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0016844_00265 (https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0016844_00265)
Following Stina Lisa Sjögren backwards you will find both the farmhand Jakob Jansson and the maid Stina Lisa Sjögren on the same page att Aspa Bruk
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0000609_00111
Per
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Per,
Thanks again for all your help. If I am reading this correctly (and I can't speak Swedish), the parents were not married at the time the baby was born. Sorry to see that the baby did not live long. Carol
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Carol!
You have interpreted it right!
I made a addition in my earlier answere!
Per
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A suggestion for Olof maybe...assuming his birthdate was changed slightly when he moved...?
There is an Olof Jansson born April 12th 1785 Finnerödja in Amnehärad after 1821. He was a miller and lived in Possekvarn.
AD references:
Amnehärad (R) AI:7a (1833-1841) Bild 177 / sid 173 (AID: v28577.b177.s173, NAD: SE/GLA/13009)
Amnehärad (R) AI:6 (1830-1833) Bild 29 / sid 277 (AID: v28576.b29.s277, NAD: SE/GLA/13009)
Amnehärad (R) AI:5 (1823-1830) Bild 79 / sid 145 (AID: v28575.b79.s145, NAD: SE/GLA/13009)
Amnehärad (R) AI:4 (1815-1824) Bild 192 / sid 186 (AID: v28574.b192.s186, NAD: SE/GLA/13009)
The earliest states the family moved from Råda in 1821 (Södra Råda??). I have not tracked them down there yet. There is no other Olof Jansson born on the 12th according to the Finnerödja birth records...
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Died Feb 6th 1855:
Amnehärad (R) AI:10b (1851-1855) Bild 172 / sid 409 (AID: v28584.b172.s409, NAD: SE/GLA/13009)
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Carol!
I don't know what happens between Jakob and Stina Lisa, but she married a soldier Lundquist 1821 Jun 17 in the parish of Mosjö
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0000984_00014 (https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0000984_00014)
She died at the age of 35 1825 Dec 04
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0000984_00037 (https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0000984_00037)
When she died she had four children
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0000970_00108 (https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0000970_00108)
Per
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Continuing on Olof...
Reference in Södra Råda (Gullspång kvarn):
Södra Råda (R, S) AI:6 (1815-1825) Bild 29 / sid 24 (AID: v28734.b29.s24, NAD: SE/GLA/13538)
Södra Råda (R, S) AI:7 (1820-1833) Bild 14 / sid 8 (AID: v28738.b14.s8, NAD: SE/GLA/13538)
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Kristina & Per,
Thanks for all your help. I have a DNA match with someone who is a cousin, and I have been trying for months to figure out the connection. As this is part of the branch where we appear to be related, I am hoping to fill in my family tree enough to see just how we are related. Pouring through church records and not knowing Swedish makes it more difficult, so I really appreciate the help.
Carol
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Per,
I am a little confused. When I went to the link for Stina's death, it appeared in what I thought was the church book for marriages. Carol
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Carol!
The Mosjö Ei:1 consist both of the book of marriages (the first 10 pages) and the book of deaths!
Per
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Kristina,
Here is the birth record I have for Olof:
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0050104_00127 (https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0050104_00127), so I'm not sure that this is the same Olof although it could still be possible??
Carol
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Kristina,
I did find a birth record for an Olof born 19 Apr 1785 in Amneharad, but this is not the right Olof and his last name would not have been Jansson. This does not rule out the Olof living in Amneharad in 1833 is not my Olof; however, he would have had to move some distance from Bremon. Carol
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The household exam rolls for Amnehärad states Olof was born in Finnerödja.
Looking at google map the distance from Amnehärads church in Gullspång is not very far from Finnerödja...
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Kristina,
OK. This may be him. I'll do some more looking. Thanks for your help. Carol
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Carol!
You may already know that in 1831 when their father Jan Andersson died there were 4 sons and 2 daughters still alive.
It's states in the estate inventory made 1831 May 13.
Hova häradsrätt (R) FII:22 (1830-1831) Bild 264 / sid 519 (AID: v143686.b264.s519, NAD: SE/GLA/11032)
When their mother died 1817 there were 4 sons and 3 daughters alive. Hova häradsrätt (R) FII:16 (1815-1817) Bild 380 / sid 753 (AID: v143680.b380.s753, NAD: SE/GLA/11032)
Per
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Hova häradsrätt:
FII:16, p. 753:
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0106835_00408 (https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0106835_00408)
FII:22, p. 519:
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0106841_00291 (https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0106841_00291)
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Per & Jörgen:
No, I did not know this. I am missing a daughter, so I will go back and look some more. I appreciate the help. These are records that I am not familiar with. How do you know to access them? I don't have time to work on this right away as I am leaving town for a few days. Will work on this then. Thanks, again. You guys rock! Carol